Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Discussing the pre-Shooter Legion

I finally managed to end 2020 reaching the end of the Hamilton era with my Legion retrospective.
It was... well certainly a fun ride, but with a couple of exceptions (the trial of Star Boy gets better every time I read it, and the first part of the Computo story holds very well) there were A LOT of stories that really don't stand the test of time.

The most disappointing part were the Legionnaires themselves. While the series as a whole is still superior to the other DC titles at the time, I found the Legionnaires very underwhelming.
Thoughts?


Saturn Girl: the one shining light of this era. I gave her the "Legion Award for best Legionnaire" both in the pre-Hamilton and Hamilton era. She's the only one with a consistent personality beyond "protagonist", defies most of the 60s girl stereotypes, and she has an active role in almost every story she's in. The only disappointment from her is that the writers don't seem to have a clear idea of what she can do... most of the time she can only intercept thoughts if the other person is willing, other times she can communicate telepathically from another dimension.

Lightning Lad: he doesn't do anything interesting before his death, and even after he's just kind of there most of the time. He's definitely the Legionnaire with the worst luck (even worse than Star Boy!), so that gives him a lot to work with, but in terms of personality? "Generic good guy" most of the time. The one time his characterization is given something is with the Super Moby Dick Of Space, but even then he's not himself most of the story. Even with his relationship with Saturn Girl isn't given much space.

Cosmic Boy: it's amazing how underdeveloped he is when compared to the other founders. He doesn't to anything interesting, has zero personality, and he barely gets to use his powers. For such an important member, you can pretty much skip this entire era without missing anything!

Superboy: definitely a better character than the Superman published at the same time. I found it extremely interesting that his position during the trial of Star Boy is far more nuanced than the absolutism about the no kill rule of his adult years!

Chameleon Boy: what a disaster. He's constantly upstaged by other shapeshifters: he doesn't do anything when Proty and Proty II are around. Even the unnamed Durlan and Plant Boy during "the Super Stalag of Space" use their powers better than him!

Colossal Boy: he gets us some cool visuals, but that's about it.

Invisible Kid: talk about a blank slate. No wonder Shooter will choose to concentrate on him, he needs something to do more than pretty much everyone else!

Star Boy: ignored for years after his first story, forgettable in every story he's in until we reach his trial and then WOW. Definitely highest jump in quality of this era! If it wasn't for the trial, I think it's possible he might have faded into the background.

Phantom Girl: there are some cool implications about her interactions with the Phantom Zone, but the only characterization she's given is "she has a crush on Ultra Boy". Amazingly she was voted best Legion girl in the letters page "by a wide margin", according to the editors.

Triplicate Girl: the only interesting thing she does is when 1/3 of her dies, and even then it's the most underwhelming thing ever. Unbelievable how much she will grow as a character when compared to this era!

Supergirl: she's just kind of there. Her first Legion stories have a ton of na?ve charm, but it doesn't go anywhere.

Brainiac 5: not the best era for my favorite Legionnaire. At least he has SOME personality, unlike most of the cast. For some reason he gets to make the majority of sexist comments! Shades of his future jerkass persona at the beginning of the Computo story and during the Super Stalag of Space. As a fan of that interpretation, I liked it.

Sun Boy: I was surprised by how much often he appears in the early Hamilton era, only to disappear from most of the latter half.

Bouncing Boy: a great start, highlighting his usefulness and his never-give-up attitude early in the Hamilton era... only to be left aside, lose his powers, being teased multiple times with a fake return of his powers, and generally being made fun of.

Shrinking Violet: like Phantom Girl, she only gets a personality when she has a crush on a guy. It was hilarious to find a letter asking why she's always drawn with a sad expression!

Ultra Boy: his slowly evolving powers are interesting. First he only has "penetra vision", then he gets additional powers, and only after a while his one-power-at-a-time gimmick gets established. Expect at least one editor's note "he's flying with his ring so we're not cheating" once per issue in the second half of this era since there's always someone complaining about that in the letters page

Mon-El: one of the best addition to the roster, even if we'll have to wait a while to get him something to do!

Matter-Eater Lad: considering how great his future self is going to be, he's just kind of there in this period. Has the fact that he can eat at super-speed been used much? It's mentioned explicitly ONCE in this era.

Element Lad: great origin story and then completely wasted. Interestingly, Hamilton barely ever gives him something to do, but whenever Siegel writes him he figures out a novel use of his powers. Most wasted potential of this era, by a wide margin!

Light Lass: another great introduction with wasted potential and almost no characterization until she gets a crush.

Elastic Lad: WHY IS JIMMY OLSEN HERE!?!?

Dream Girl: she appears in only 2 stories but man, what a sigh of relief whenever she's around. I really wish she kept the cape she was wearing during the trial of Star Boy, it was a good look for her!

Command Kid and Dynamo Boy: worst Legionnaires, no contest. Were they officially excluded from the roster? I could easily understand why, given the whole "joins under false pretense" thing, but they're unmistakably members in their stories. Command Kid even resigns instead of being expelled, and Dynamo Boy dies in his second story! Not counting Lightning Lad, he even beats Ferro Lad as the first Legionnaire to die. (okay technically he's stranded in an apocalyptic future, but come on, if the Time Trapper didn't save him, nobody is going to care!)

Kid Psycho: is he the new Star Boy? Introduced in a Superboy story, given Legion membership (albeit as reserve), and barely even mentioned in the regular series?



Really, REALLY looking forward to the Shooter era at this point. I still love this era to death despite all my criticism, but the jump in quality is unbelievable.

I need to remind myself exactly which stories were part of this era... but I agree, most of the Legionnaires were cookie-cutter and could have replaced each other then

Shooter?s first story introduced Karate Kid, Princess Projectra and Ferro Lad. I remember enjoying Paul Levitz?s notes on the back cover of Adventure digests that was doing chronological reprints of the team. The stand out for characterization for me was Saturn Girl. Strong, smart and willing to sacrifice herself for the team consistently. Even though there wasn?t much for characterization the amount of world building being done in those early stories amazes me. Things that happened in one story could carry over into future stories. Lightning lad dying, his sister taking his place, a search to resurrect him and finally a sacrifice to make that happen occurred over a span of several issues. That wasn?t an ordinary occurrence back than that I can see.

What's interesting is that you do get a lot of the foundations of the later characterizations of the Legionnaires during this era. There's a sense in which you could have stuck any other Legionnaire in place of Ultra Boy in the "Ultra Boy is secretly a criminal" story, but the fact that it was Ultra Boy chosen for that story has had a massive impact on subsequent iterations of the character. And similarly with a lot of Legionnaires and their "spotlight" issues. But, yeah, overall the focus is more on world-building than deep exploration of the characters, and the raw amount of inventiveness during this period is hard to top.

It's important to see it context as well,. I mean... one could argue that the JLA were largely interchangeable as far as personality during this period as well. And even over at Marvel, the main differences often amount to little more the particular reason why Character X is feeling angsty.

Also all very good points.

for that matter, the fact that Saturn Girl was so consistent as a character already, and was in no way a damsel in distress, was already cause for celebration!

This era somehow built a rich universe and history and lore despite largely being executed in a pretty clunky manner. It was unfortunately pretty clear that the writers considered their audience to be almost exclusively children, teens at the oldest.

I started reading the Legion during the early Bronze Age and it was decades before I had a chance to go back and read the earlier stories. It was hard not to be disappointed by things I felt were key pieces of Legion lore just having been casually thrown in over a panel or two, like:
1) Lightning Lass --> Light Lass
2) Triplicate Girl --> Duo Damsel - a bit more time spent here, but not given even as close to the level of drama it should have been given.
3) Introduction of the flight ring
4) Evolution of Star Boy's powers - pretty much only addressed in off panel in back-up features

I believe the writers did try to come up with good stories, but one a month was a bit much to expect, so there are a lot of throw-away issues with silly ideas. And indeed character development was minimal, everyone was more or less generic, wholesome hero types. Comments above, however, do rightly point to the two exceptions to this - SAturn Girl's leadership and devotion to Lightning Lad, and Ultra Boy's "renegade" aspect being established in a good story way back in I think Adv #316. Bouncing Boy's plucky can-do attitude was established also.

Other flashes of pre-Shooter brilliance:
1) the Starfinger story was the first full-blown and well-done super-villain story. The Time Trapper ones prior were never done very seriously.
2) the fate of Beast Boy (not the green TT, the Hero of Lallor) in I think Adv #339
3) The origin of the Legion of Subs.
4) Despite blowing off the fate of Triplicate Girl's 3rd self, the Computo story.
5) the writing definitely improved as the Shooter era approached - Luck Lords, Stuper-Stalag of Space, and the trial of Star Boy were all pretty good - but all were after Adv #340.
Plus, the classic Devil's Dozen story (after Shooter's first issues) was Edmund Hamilton, I think.

There were also some major continuity gaffes - I think it was Adv. #319 where the entire plot centers around Mon-el NOT losing powers under a Red Sun... clearly ignored later as this vulnerability is a key piece of DC universe continuity.

I think if you know going in to think of these stories as more of a nostalgic journey, it is enjoyable.

But definitely don't go in expecting to read all the awesome stories you missed.

Now, the Shooter era, on the other hand, delivers quite well, but that would be another thread...

Well, for the most part, that *was* the comics audience of the early 60s.

Most of the first Legion stories I read were from this era as B&W reprints yet I was fascinated by the universe they created, so I guess I am agreeing with previous comments about world-building over characterisation. That said I can think of a couple of others that stood out to me. Brainiac 5 has always been to me incredibly smart and yet incredibly humble, as epitomised in the story "The Eight Impossible Missions" so the later arrogant characterisations (based far more on Giffen's portrayal of his ancestor in L.E.G.I.O.N.) have always grated upon me. The other thought is the introduction of Brin Londo showing a somewhat independent loner which was carried through in a number of later stories.


I feel sure I remember some comment somewhere that his anti-lead serum also resulted in him retaining his powers under a red sun as opposed to other Daxamites without the serum.

good point, that is no doubt very true. I guess I wish they gave mroe credit to the intelligence of kids that age, as later writers did.


That said, there were far more good stories weaved in than I listed, as stile86 points out above also - the original Lone Wolf Legionnaire was indeed a classic, and B5 was characterized pretty well also.

And while i am sure comic-art afficionados might criticize his ability to depict motion/action, for some reason I am REALLY fond of John Forte's art style.

this was definitely a retcon added later to explain this, and I think this wasn't the only issue from that time that stated he had powers under Red sun.

In reality, the error may have just been in later writers stating otherwise without realizing earlier stories contradicted, but fortuantely they finally stuck wtih one and went with it.
(and I must say they made the right choice, as a whole planet of fully powered Daxamites running around the universe would render the rest of the Legion a bit redundant... although I guess they also lacked lead serum...

[shameless self-promotion] Well you could have a look at my retrospective if you feel like it :-)

Yes this is definitely one of the most fascinating parts of looking back at this period. You can see the first seeds of stuff that will be done years, sometimes decades later! Ultra Boy is a great example: 95% of his reboot personality would've been completely different without that story. (pre-Crisis too, but to a lesser extent)

She was also different from the other Legionnaire girls in that she's the only one who doesn't get the requisite "I have a crush on this boy for this issue" story. Her relationship with Lightning Lad, even if it is barely mentioned at all during most of this era, feels genuinely more mature than what was typical at the time.

John Forte is a very weird case to me. Most of the time his characters are extremely stiff and have no expression... then all of a sudden he comes up with a very striking closeup or a memorable reaction shot (for some reason, this almost always happens with Saturn Girl).
Sometimes I wonder if he had a very tight schedule or if he wasn't feeling a particular story. I've seen him in several Superman / Lois / Kimmy Olsen stories where he draws with a more detailed style, but sometimes he makes a huge jump in quality (Dream Girl's first story comes to mind).

And of course his alien designs are second to none, one of the highlights of this period.

Did we ever get an explanation for why we didn't have more Daxamites taking the serum? You would think that quite a few would be interested in playing Superman! We did get something in the reboot, but I don't recall if it was addressed before that.

I seem to recall something about the lead serum containing kryptonite, which was rare enough that they couldn't mass produce it.

This was Forte at the end of his career, and his health may not have always been that great. A lot of his romance comics from the 50s are just fantastic, and he also has a long history of illustrations for pulp sci fi magazines, which you can really can see reflected in some of his Legion work.

That's one reason why Shooter was hired, with the assumption that a teenager would write stories that would more authentically appeal to young people. Weisinger also started at some point to solicit story ideas from local kids in the neighborhood.

Don't underestimate the youngsters!

I thought when Weisinger first hired Shooter that he had no idea that Shooter was a teenager and didn't learn his age until months later?

Yeah, he didn't realize quite how young Shooter was when he bought the first couple of stories but once he found out, he certainly thought his youth was an advantage.

Your analysis of the Legionnaires is spot on. They were pretty much interchangeable in the early days. It was typical for them to show up for a few panels, do their bit, and then disappear into the background. Before the Legion took over the lead spot in Adventure, and then the entire book, the stories featured smaller teams of Legionnaires. Once they became the lead feature, I imagine it became a challenge to feature as many Legionnaires as possible in stories, so you would get odd cameos and stories like Adv. 310, in which the entire team is killed off--sometimes en masse (as when a spaceship carrying several Legionnaires runs into an asteroid). It's an odd way of including everybody without having them do much of anything. It reminds me of the writing on Star Trek: The Next Generation in the 1980s, when all of the lead characters were featured in almost every episode but each had to be given something to do, and it often wasn't very convincing.

My first exposure to the Legion was through the four-issue reprint series in 1973, so the first two stories I read were the Command Kid story (written by Siegel) and "The War Between Krypton and Earth" (by Hamilton). In hindsight, they couldn't have been more different. The Siegel story focuses on peer pressure, and although most of the team appear, they have little to do. However, the few scenes devoted to individual Legionnaires reveal much: Star Boy's insecurity over his power after watching Command Kid in action; Cosmic Boy's anniversary gift to his parents being rebuffed by CK; Phantom Girl being upstaged by him . . . a lot was done to make me care about the Legionnaires by having them interact with their newest member, the "cool" kid who brings out their insecurities.

The Hamilton story is straight ahead science fiction with little attention devoted to individual Legionnaires. They fill a role in the story, even carrying arms against each other (when there's no real reason for them to do so) and supporting a war that, in hindsight, makes no sense. Hamilton was dealing with larger themes, such as how conflict escalates and how even the choices to contain a war (such as using non-lethal weapons) can go awry. Story logic was of secondary consideration, characterization almost non-existent.

"The War Between Krypton and Earth" was based on a movie, IIRC, though I can't remember which one. That's why it becomes a story of Superboy's doomed romance with Leta Lal. The beats in this part of the story and the pathos regarding Superboy feel very movie-like. Some of the best stories of this era--including the Starfinger story (Goldfinger) and the Super-Stalag story (Stalag 17)--were based on films, which probably explains why characterization was better developed.

Good point. There was little if any time to do rewrites or second drafts. Later writers such as Gerry Conway explained the challenges of having to churn out X amount of pages every month.



E. Nelson Bridwell, actually.

It's funny that this thread was resurrected now that I'm very close to finishing the retrospective on Shooter's run on Adventure Comics... I might do a similar thread once I get there, I have a feeling there's a lot to discuss on the topic :-)

Blame me. I've been largely absent from the boards for two years.