Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Your opinions on Legion romances

I know! She would have to have a certain degree of invulnerability but for some reason she could fly around suns and through spaceships yet still get wounded by an arrow shot from a bow. While I didn?t care for them as a couple I will say they weren?t bad together in Legion Lost if I remember.

I liked Jo and Sussa too. She flirted and had a crush on him but where they ever really a couple beyond that? It was nice seeing Spider Girl reform and become a hero. Was a little sad seeing that wiped away with the reboots.

I fanwank that whatever force helps propel her in flight, particularly in space (it sure as hell isn't wing-flapping that moves her near lightspeed in vacuum!) also reinforces her body against acceleration forces/etc. so that, contrary to expectations, she gets more and more 'invulnerable' the faster she flies, as whatever force she's using for propulsion is also protecting her from the effects of that acceleration.

But yeah, she's never really made a ton of sense, powers wise, nor been portrayed particularly consistently (since I don't think the writers had any sort of specific rationale for how her powers worked, and sort of made it up as they went along).

Really enjoyed :

Mon-EL / Shadow Lass - Original/5YL
Ultra Boy/Tinya 5YL - Reboot
Element lad and Shvaughn - Original
Karate Kid and Projectra - original
Brainiac 5 and Dream Girl - Threeboot

Like:

Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad - pretty much all versions
White Witch and Blok - original
Duo Damsel and Bouncing Boy
Ayla and Vi - original and retroboot
B5 and Laurel Gand
Cosmic Boy and Night Girl
Dream Girl and Star Boy
Colossal Boy and Gigi Cusimano

Neutral:

Dawnstar and Wildfire
Colossal Boy and Chameleon Girl
Invisible Kid and Gazelle
Shady and Earth Man
Lightning Lass and Timberwolf
Timberwolf and Projectra

What I thought were Interesting potentials:

Reboot -

Saturn Girl and Ultra Boy
Chameleon Boy and Lightning Lass
Chameleon Boy and Sensor
Ferro and Inferno
Ferro and Shrinking Violet

Threeboot -

Atom Girl and Timberwolf
Atom Girl and Wildfire

When I grew up in the '70s, it was just a given that some Legionnaires were couples and not much was made of it. It wasn't until the Levtiz era in the '80s that things got interesting with Ayla breaking up with Brin and Nura taking Thom for granted. The relationships had been very static to that point.

Favorites? Garth and Imra were a given. As a Mon-El fan, I liked his relationship with Shady, though, again, things didn't really become interesting until she emerged as a stronger character in the '80s. Her marriage to him while he was dying speaks a lot about her culture, her strength, and her devotion to him.

The Jo and Tinya relationship was comfortable and safe, and I appreciated the fact that they were part of a clique with Mon and Shady. Still, I went through the five stages of grief for Jo when she was killed off before 5YL. It was like having the rug of stability ripped out from under me.

Val and Jeckie were, as Emerald Empress noted above, a wonderful warrior and princess archetype. I didn't care for either character separately, but together they conveyed a sense that each contributed something meaningful to the relationship.

Much effort was spent to develop Drake and Dawny as a couple who could never be, and while both were difficult personalities, I got the feeling they could have brought the best out of each other. Unfortunately, the pathos went on too long and brought out the worst of them--Drake's clinginess and Dawny's indifference.

I don't have much to say about the rest. Chuck and Lu got married and lived happily ever after, as all good people did in those days (at least Hollywood said so). I never quite understood what Nura saw in Thom, and, by the Levitz era, neither did she. We didn't see enough of Ord for me to get a sense of his relationship with Vi (though their eventual breakup was classic). Lydda, too, was off center stage and only there when Rokk needed a date. Brin and Ayla were just sort of there. Brainy and Kara were over by the time I started reading the Legion. (However, the story of him building a Supergirl robot in his sleep is both sweet and creepy. Creepy romances run throughout the Legion's history.)

There hasn t been much development of romances in the Bendisboot. Mon breaking up with Phantom Girl, Shady and Rokk sort of a couple. The blossoming Imra-Jon romance was better than I would have expected. It's hard to imagine Imra with anyone but Garth after all these years, but this felt authentic in a sweet, teenage crush kind of way. (Assuming we neglect Imra's mind manipulation tendencies.)

Get ready for a list:
Mon-EL x Shadow Lass in the original time line.
Ultra Boy and Tinya in both the original and reboot, I feel if the reboot had more time they would have tried to fix there relationship.
Element lad x Shvaughn Erin in the original, they were my absolute favourite couple in the 80's Legion.
Karate Kid and Projectra - original
Brainiac 5 and Kara in literally every timeline except reboot and threeboot, considering I grew up with Legion as bedtime stories I am almost positive these two were my first ever ship, and I still love them so much.
Duo Damsel and Bouncing Boy were also adorable
Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad's love story was just amazing in both the original and reboot to me, I love them.
I was constantly rooting for Cosmic Boy and Night Girl to get together, and when they finally did I found it so satisfying.
Ayla and Vi in the original may have been subtle, but they were great.
Dream Girl and Star Boy in both the original and reboot were also great.
Colossal Boy and Gigi Cusimano was cute and at the time I thought they would be more of a thing but I must admit I was much more satisfied by Gigi and Sun Boy, and Colossal Boy and Yera.
Dawnstar and Wildfire were ok, but only later on because Wildfire was way more of a jerk in the beginning.
Lightning Lass and Timberwolf were great in the 70's and early 80's but when it ended I think that was a good conclusion because I think both character really grew after they separated.
Chameleon Boy and Princess Elwinda was brief, but one of my absolute favorite Legion relationships of all time and it ended so sadly.
Chameleon and Spark in the reboot.
Cosmic Boy and Kid Quantum in the reboot was great
And finally Lyle and Brainy in the reboot, it might have only been a brief kiss but I love them so so much.

Edit: I also hated all Earth Man relationships, it made me want to puke.

Here's my opinion on Dawny/Wildfire

Wildfire's whole thing is he doesn't really care about his lack of a physical body, and if a physical relationship was really important than both of them would make an effort to use equipment like a strap-on to satisfy Dawny's needs. Orgasm occurs in the mind and I refuse to believe by the 31st Century they don't have options.

No Wildfire's whole thing is he's afraid if he enters into an actual, committed relationship without all the "WE CAN NEVER TOUCH" crap than Dawny's gonna realize she really is too good for him and dump him once and for all. But the constant angst and tragedy of it all keeps them both in a cycle of break-up and reunion so even if Dawny DOES leave she comes back.

That is a good interpretation! I know the real world reason Drake has never done anything permanent about his situation is status quo, but looking at it in universe....I think there is something really wrong with him beneath the surface. I mean his origin story involves the miracle machine, dude didn't immediately think to use it to give himself a human body?

I think my list is very much defined by the relationships as depicted by Levitz

Imra/Garth - I even remembered them from when I randomly picked up a Legion comic as a young child in the 70s
Lar/Shady
Ayla/Vi
Thom/Nura
Tinya/Jo
Dawnstar/Wildfire

The only one that is off the Levitz reservation is Rokk/Jazmin, which is the only real relationship that made any positive kind of impact on me from the DnA era, after they messed with everything else, but I need to reread that stretch to see if my memory is correct on that.

I will say that I wasn't really a fan of the Tinya/Jo romance during the Peyer/McCraw run, but it grew on me by the time the timeline ended.
Disappointed that no one other than Levitz did anything with Ayla/Vi.

I don't remember the miracle machine being involved in his origin, just an accident with anti-matter, a containment suit from a professor, and a hell of a lot of luck.

I'm pretty sure he has in mind the story where he joins the team as Wildfire rather than the actual origin. He uses the Miracle Machine in that issue to defeat the Molecule Master.

I don't see Wildfire's concerns over not having a physical body as primarily being a matter of whether he can bring Dawny to orgasm. There's a lot more to physical intimacy than simply getting the other person off. Holding a glove is a lot different than holding the other person's hand, and lying with your arms around a containment suit is just not the same as putting your head on the chest of a loved one and hearing their heartbeat. It's as much about having no lips with which to kiss her as anything else.

Sorry, I should have been more clear...but yeah, that is the story I was thinking about. I always kind of think of that as his more fleshed out origin story because it's more the start of Wildfire as the Legionnaire we know.

I agree about the intimacy thing too. I mean even taking actual physical contact out of it altogether he doesn't have a face anymore so he can't communicate visually outside of body language, he can't ever taste food or smell anything again - the limitations of comics mean we don't know how his voice sounds but I can't imagine he's capable of the kind of subtle variations of tone and stuff like that he would have been capable of in a human body (my headcanon is that's why he's alway so in your face about everything, because unless he's being over the top when he expresses himself it's probably difficult for people to gauge whether he's being sarcastic, angry, hurt, etc).

I kinda wish they'd actually touched on this stuff in the comics instead of having his regrets revolve around "not being man enough" for Dawnstar all the time because it'd make him a lot more sympathetic. The only story I can think of where you really got a sense of how much he's lost was that dream dimension thing with Jacques where he didn't want to leave the fantasy that made him feel human again.

^^Good points.

Ah I get what you mean about the miracle machine and you are right. he could theoretically have given himself a new body by using it.

You make some excellent points about what life must be like for him having no face, no physical contact with anything or anyone except through the layers of the suit. That would drive anyone to extremes and I guess it is to Drake's credit that he is as in control of himself as he is.

The whole storyline feels like we sort of got the dumbed down version. They have telepathic earplugs, for one, and I am *sure* they have more sophisticated means in which the two could get together in some virtual / telepathic 'space' for some sexy adult time if that was truly important to either of them.

And yet, Drake has no glands, no hormones, no body chemistry.

He shouldn't have any real sexual desire of his own so much as a frustrated longing to be able to provide that for Dawny and feeling that it's unfair that *she* is denied that, by choosing to be with him (which would make him and his manpain 100% more sympathetic to me, if that were presented that way in the comics, instead of that lame scene where he falls into an alternate dimension where he can form a body and immediately surrounds himself with a literal harem of hotties and tells Invisible Jacques he's staying here and never going back!).

The writing has come off at times as *Drake* is needy (and horny), and it seems not just like a disservice to Drake, but a little bit unrealistic (and even sexist, to, as always, make the man the one who has sexual needs and the woman just some aloof object of his affection who doesn't seem to have any needs or desires or sexual agency of her own). It's like, hey, let's write a couple, and only *one* of them gets to have thought bubbles. Guess which one we consider a person, and which one is a plot object?

That's a really good point, Set. I had never thought of Drake having no hormones, etc., and, therefore, he should have no sexual desire.

We take a lot for granted in comics. Just what does it mean to be "human"? To be "male"? I think Drake tapped into a lot of frustrated teen angst--wanting to be with someone but, for various reasons (culture, age, etc.), not being able to. He was a lot like the Thing in this regard--monstrous in form but still having a man's feelings.

Viewed in this context, the harem scene makes a lot of sense to me. It was Drake being human and male and realizing how much he needed to be both.

A similar case could be made for Rogue in the X-Men. She wants to love, but she can't touch someone without draining their energy.

There is evidence of people having phantom pains and other sensations after having lost a limb. I imagine that the writers must have had this in mind for Wildfire.

Yeah, I don't think we ever got a full exploration of just how weird his disembodiment must be. It's mentioned that he no longer eats. presumably he doesn't need to sleep... and yet he still has memories of what it's like to have a body.

I think in an earlier discussion, I mentioned a wish for Drake to meet other beings who weren't bound by physical bodies as we are. Perhaps as his memories of human experiences faded, he'd be less angsty and learn to approach existence as they did.

I guess you could argue (and I think someone did) that being surrounded by "normal" beings would make forgetting impossible for him, though. Even if he no longer had the same feelings towards Dawnstar. Which would mean at some point he might feel compelled to leave the team (and her) for his own personal growth and sanity.

Celeste McCauley was actually in a similar situation by the end of 5YL, having been converted to GL energy. I always thought it would've been interesting to see more of them together.

I hadn't thought of the parallel with Celeste. Good point. But then we never did get the chance to really dive in to her characterisation after her transformation.

While the gland issue makes some sense, societal and cultural upbringings also make a difference in what is considered attractive. As a heterosexual male I know that what arouses me is not what would have been considered sexy in some past western cultures like the 18th century or the 15th century. To take just one example much depiction of women in the past showed the ideal to be "well-padded" by our standards. When food and healthy nourishment are scarcer the idea of a well fed woman is sexier than a thin one, which contrast significantly with our current abundant society. There are also some differences in male depiction though less obvious. The ideal of a fit, well-muscled, physically healthy man which is rarer in our consumptive society is different than a time when most men worked long hours physically and the learned "noble" idea was seen as more aspiring. (If I am coming across as sexist or homophobic, I apologise. Not my intention.)

My point is that even without the hormones Drake would have been culturally used to what he considered attractive in his mind, as well as having a number of years with the hormones to reinforce that. I suspect that the portrayal of him still being attracted to Dawnstar is normal and sensible. (Not quite the words I wanted but you get the idea.)

I only know Celeste through her Heroes History page and the tiny handful of 5YL issues that I own. But she seems cool. Certainly I found her more interesting than I found any other GL.