Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Re-Reads (Now Reading: Swamp Thing: 1971 through 1985)

Thanks, Set.

Good to know that Danette is somebody else's favorite as well.

The rum nature of the lineup would be somewhat compensated for by its fluidity, and by the generous (sometimes over-generous) use of guest stars.

And, yeah, if the series had at least gotten to an nice, round 100 issues, that would've been great.

If it had actually gone on even longer and we'd have gotten to the end of the war, that would've been even greater.

I agree 100 percent, EDE!



Roy was the first superhero connoisseur turned professional creator!

All-Star Squadron #2 (October 1981)

For the most part, this issue is simply a second helping of the exact same goodness that Roy and Company served up in the first one. Certainly nothing to complain about. That said, there are three things about this issue which I feel are worth addressing:

- Joe Kubert's cover, a typically dynamic scene of the heroines and heroes disassembling an enemy plane in mid-flight. Kubert was not only one of the greatest comic book artists of all time, and a personal favorite of mine. He was also, in every sense, *there,* right in the thick of the Golden Age, as an industrious and (by his own admission) somewhat cocky 15-year-old who had already broken into the then-booming comic book industry. So it is fitting that he should have been the default cover artist for this series (even if that ultimately lasted for only a year-and-a-half.)

- Phantom Lady entering the fray. I *love* the Golden Age Quality Comics characters, and PL is my favorite of them. On the other hand -- and this is something Roy Thomas admitted in hindsight in "The All-Star Companion Volume 2" -- the use of her and other QC characters in this series was problematic, given that those characters had been established almost a decade earlier as being from Earth-X (where WWII never ended), rather than Earth-Two (where this series takes place, and where history unfolded more-or-less as it did in Real Life.) Roy did try to resolve this in a later storyline, with very mixed results IMO, but we'll get to that one in its proper time.

- The opening scene of a small group of onlookers outside the White House suddenly joining together to sing the National Anthem. According to Roy (again in TASCV2,) this is based on fact. He doesn't elaborate any further, and there is no need to. Now, I'll admit that when I first read that scene as an ignorant, arrogant, too-smart-for-my-own-good youth, I found it ridiculous, even reactionary. Today, my older and wiser self can fully appreciate where Roy was coming from -- because while it could be credibly argued that the United States of America, in its 244 years of existence, has never quite lived up to The American Ideal, I now believe that to outright dismiss The Ideal is just as bad as the periodic distortions of The Ideal by cynical opportunists. Back when this series took place, The Ideal was something to be cherished, to take pride in, and, yes, to fight for. A lesson well taught, IMHO, by Roy...who had, incidentally, been a schoolteacher before he moved to NYC to break into comics.

I have such mixed feelings about the use of the Quality characters. On the one hand, I applaud the goal of trying to find a way to preserve their GA stories, which didn't really fit with the Earth-X history. However, I've always thought that would've been best served by creating yet another Earth (Earth-Q?) in which their actual GA adventures took place rather than shoehorning them into Earth-2. Nonetheless, I do think Plastic Man and Phantom Lady especially worked well in the context of All-Star Squadron, so I don't really have a problem with there being Earth-2 versions of those characters. Especially when you consider that in Plastic Man's case there had already been established versions of him from several other Earths, and postulating multiple Phantom Ladies kind of works with the way she was used by different publishers in the Golden Age.

All valid points, EDE.

And I'll admit I have an Earth-X bias because it's one of my favorite JLA stories.

Phantom Lady I'm fine with multiple versions of, but Plastic Man to me only counts in the Jack Cole stories (and I'm not even a great fan of those -- I think they're wildly imaginative, but often disturbing.)

Just a "I'm enjoying this thread" comment here. Move along...move along....

Thank you, Thoth! Much appreciated! That's exactly what makes all the effort that goes into those reviews worthwhile.

I can't read the ASS issues at the moment but am looking forward to going through this thread when I can. Keep going Ann. Thanks.

I remember picking up A-SS #1 when it came out. I think I liked it okay, but it was a little over my head. I may have stuck with it a few more issues, but maybe I didn't. I came in loving the JSA from various JLA/JSA crossovers I'd already read, but I remember finding the Squadron concept confusing because it both was and wasn't the JSA. I was 11, so I think if it were a pure JSA book, I would've been all-in.

As of now, I've only read those first 1 (or more) few issues, the big JLA/JSA/A-SS crossover and recently, the Crisis crossover issues reprinted in the recent Crisis Companion Vol. 1 HC (collecting the final 11 issues of the book, among other crossovers). I'd certainly be a likely consumer of an A-SS Omnibus or series of HC collections, if they ever get around to it.

I am, however, kind on the fence about Roy Thomas. He's not a writer whose work I pretty much love or like most of the time. Some of his stuff is pretty by-the-numbers and lacks much in the way of characterization. Most of what I like is elevated by him being paired with an exceptional artist. Some examples that come to mine are his X-Men run with Neal Adams, his Dr. Strange run with Jackson Guice, Ordway and MacFarlane on Infinity Inc and, of course, his collaborations with John Buscema. I feel sure that I would enjoy the body of A-SS, though, not just because Ordway was there for a while but also because I love so many of the characters. (And I certainly enjoyed the crossover stories mentioned above.)




I think the FF basically decided to leave Earth-2 to join the fight on Earth-X, right?

Yeah, it's revealed that the FF had originally migrated from Earth-2. Which pretty much negated the original reason for using them in A-SS (namely to bring all of their postwar Quality stories into continuity). Plus it creates the question of why the JSA apparently don't know them when they first meet in the JLA/JSA/FF crossover.



Thomas definitely has his flaws as a writer, but I think with A-SS in particular there's a kind of energy and excitement to the series that makes up some of the other weaknesses. It's a series that's just fun to read.

All Star Squadron #3 (Nov. 1981)

In which the various plot threads and the large cast introduced in the 2 previous issues all converge quite gracefully over the Pacific Ocean for a grand final showdown between good and evil. In the end, Degaton and all the other time-travelling villains are returned from whence they came in the space-time continuum, the All-Stars and the JSA get to make proper introductions, and after a pep talk from First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt herself, the heroines and heroes are more fervorous than ever about fighting the good fight. This issue is almost wall-to-wall action, something both Roy and Buckler have always had the talent to deliver in a superior way.

Now, as memory serves me, it takes about a year for the series to get back to the high level of awesomeness of its opening 3-part story-arc, but I'm confident that everything in those 10 or 12 issues will be rarely less than good.

NOTE: I don't have issue 4, but thanks to the trusty old All-Star Companion (Volume 2), I can give you a plot synopsis written by Roy himself:



I'll come back here within the next 24 hours to review issue #5.

A quick scene by scene of #4:-

The cover tells us that this is ?a battle you never expected!? and ?a climax you?ll never forget!?

It?s ?The Justice Society of America vs The All Star Squadron!?

And the cover doesn?t hold back showing Thunderbolt vs Hawkman; Spectre vs Atom; Green Lantern vs Doctor Midnite; Superman vs Robotman; Wonder Woman vs Liberty Belle and Doctor Fate vs Johnny Quick.

Chapter One: Day of the Dragon King
The splash page shows the assembled heroes on their way to Pearl Harbour. One of Roy?s writing traits is to answer questions he must have posed while putting together the book, and ones he might have asked as a fan. So, we get a (failed) attempt to explain why The Spectre didn?t just magic everyone there.
Another Thomas trait is to cram the issue with lots of points, based on his Golden Age research. We get four pages of the team en route to Pearl Harbour with the JSA and new All Star Squadron exchanging conversation full of character notes.

We learn that Doctor Fate has recently lost a lot of his power, but can still fly and carry people; Wonder Woman hasn?t yet become a JSA member; Hawkman sets up the next story by saying that he hasn?t heard from Shiera; We?re reminded of Danette?s brother at pearl harbour; we get little flashbacks that show Plastic Man and Phantom Lady leaving the cast for now; Liberty Belle experiences adrenal rushes close to a bell and Superman remembers a time, only three years before, when he was the only cape in town. He refers to it as his ?coming out? having inspired others. Superman also hopes to know Wonder Woman who he hopes to ?get to know a lot better.? ? seeding the way for Byrne and beyond.

As with Spectre not just magically arriving, others such as Supes are holding back so they all arrive together.

Chapter Two: Aftermath of Infamy
A page has panels showing the reaction of many of the cast to the destruction they see in the main central panel. It?s a pretty good page. The heroes are fired upon by their own side, mistakenly thinking it might be another attack. We get a reminder of Supes being a bit more vulnerable than the Earth-1 version; the power of the Spectre and of Thunderbolt.

The group are well received, and meet the general who is pleased that they can stand in for all the damaged planes. The Atom felt a bit inferior in chapter one. That turns out to be a set up. When he expresses something similar here, Supes tells him that in a world war, America needs all of them, not just those with special powers. Of course, he did use super hearing to pick up what the Atom said?

The group are eager to take the war to the Japanese and say ?aye!? to smashing its fleet. Thomas doesn?t miss an continuity or historical beat, reminding us that the President wanted them to stay on the home front, and that congress hasn?t declared war yet.

Elsewhere on the base, Justin and Danette see check in on Rod Reilly. He?s in a coma and Slugger Dunn has been injured. Danette is warm to Justin?s touch. I?ve not reread the earlier issues, but Annfie mentioned a volcano. I guess that was to be part of Wildfire?s more elemental origins in the series.
The heroes struggle to find the fleet which troubles Spectre. Roy?s research informs the cast?s geographical skills and military history telling them that other attacks are being carried out, and they go to aid their forces in those battles.

Elsewhere, a hooded Dragon King mixes science and magic (years before Rasputin in Hellboy), in anticipation of the JSA?s attack (he doesn?t know about the Squadron). The source of his magic is the Holy Grail. Combining its energies with those of the Spear of Destiny (The Germans were busy nipping across the world after artefacts, as mentioned in previous reviews) it sends waves across the skies, turning those heroes susceptible to magic into being allies of the axis powers!

It looks grim, but fortunately Spectre, Supes and Wondy have more resistance, as they?re not ?mortal humans?. Even so, Green Lantern, Doctor Fate and Thunderbolt. Green Lantern is defeated as he blabbed to Midnite at some JSA point about having a weakness against wood. He also has a glass jaw, as Belle knocks him out with the only bit lying around. It frees Quick, Robotman, Atom and Midnite to attack enemy forces. This is also Thomas showing that he can write action scenes for heroes all across the power scales in the same story.

Hawkman flies Fate out from the Grail?s ?alien? influence. He then gets to repeat the trick with the others, just as their will breaks. We don?t get the see the Spectre, Superman or Wondy really work for the enemy.

Robotman destroys the enemy HQ, but the Dragon King has escaped and the grail prevents the heroes going further towards enemy forces. Robotman loses an arm in the process, getting damaged in the way that all repairable heroes do. In the final panel, Hawkman reminds us about his missing wife, and tells us that he has another bombshell to drop on his buddies!

Thomas gives us plenty of heroes in the issue. No one seems left out, even as he emphasises those who will become the central cast. Thomas? in depth historical knowledge blends well with his huge continuity drive and golden age information. You always get your money?s worth just reading a Roy Thomas story. He puts in a lot of written detail, in the days where it was fine to show someone?s internal monologues. He doesn?t miss many opportunities to add in background references, while pushing the plot forward with plenty of action. There are some nice character moments, although a lot of the cast?s dialogue will eventually become a little samey. Thomas is far, far from being the only writer that this happens to, and there are plenty of other distractions here to capture the attention.

Wait... the Spear/Grail affected Superman because of kryptonite (before kryptonite was even discovered!)?

I always assumed it was just Superman's vulnerability to magic.

I think it was his vulnerability to magic that would have made him turn. His non-human heritage, which is what I took "non-human mortal" to mean, meant that his Kryptonian heritage made him a little more resistant than a lot of the others.

That's the way I understood, which is what makes Roy's reference to Kryptonite in Ann's quote above puzzling...

Wasn't the vulnerability to magic played up a lot more in the Post-Crisis DCU than the Pre-Crisis? Or is my memory faulty?

Nah, it was a pretty big deal in the Silver/Bronze Age. It was regularly mentioned when Mxyzptlk would show up, and it was a standard excuse for sidelining him in early JLA stories. I was just reading a story yesterday from about 1980 where Terra-Man enlisted the aid of a magic-wielding alternate Earth counterpart of himself to take out Superman. Plus I'd guess that's why the Wizard was turned into a major Earth-2 Superman foe in the Mr. and Mrs. Superman stories.

Ah, okay. That explains it. I have little familiarity with those eras of Superman. Thanks, EDE.

Peeking back through it...

DC Special's 29 apparently gave us the retconned untold origin of the JSA. A certain military dictator is shown holding the Spear of Destiny in front of a captive Bats and GL.
Thomas tells us that the true grail is "actually a cup carved wholly of stone-- and graven with ancient, mystic runes." - An interesting version.

The force waves from the device, make Hawkman tingle but it's like "shock therapy" to Superman, and affects Fate and Speccy in the same way as Supes.

ah, there it is ?

Doctor Fate, once free, says " Those waves of energy we felt! They worked on those of us most vulnerable typo magic, somehow-- because magic is part and parcel of our very origins."

A little bit of a confusion over Superman's vulnerability to magic and having magic in his origin. It's so completely unlike Thomas, that a retconned Kryptonite reason has been placed into his All Star Companion description.

LOL

Thanks, Thoth.

Occam's Razor, I guess?

Not much I have to say about the "Kukulkan" 2-parter in issues #5 and #6. I think it's the kind of story that Gardner Fox would've hacked out under a deadline crunch during the Silver Age. Having the phony god turn out to be a Nazi in brownface wasn't much better than if he'd been Mexican, but...either way, it's not much of a story.

Back later with a review of the far better All-Star Squadron issue #7 (which also marks the return of the great Joe Kubert on covers.)

Yeah, that 2-parter was pretty weak, but I recall the next story line being first-rate stuff!

The 2-parter did have Firebrand getting her powers (Rod Reilly kept his ID in a way a Mr Moore might have been reading). It also had Johnny Quick & Robot Man battle on the Statue of Liberty.
A quick skim reminds me that while he's writing Squadron plots, Roy Thomas is also cross referencing everything with the appearances of the JSA in their golden age books, as well as later retcons and history.
This 2-parter has the JSA enlist, and we get the Spectre saying that, as a dead man, this would cause some problems. There's even a feeling of disconnect with the living from him (again, a Mr Moore seems to have been reading)

EDE, yes indeed, the next three consecutive issues are superb!

Thoth, good call on the possible influences on Mr. Moore. And while it is true that the Firebrand sequence and the Statue of Liberty sequence were a pleasant relief from the tedium of the "A-Plot," I wish those scenes had had more room to breathe instead of taking a backseat to the Latin stereotype silliness.

Feeling worn down by the sheer awfulness of modern life, but I really want to keep this re-read going. So here I go...

Issues #7 through #9 of "All-Star Squadron" make clever and productive use of potentially strong discards by re-purposing an unpublished issue of the short-lived 1978 series "Steel" (created by Roy Thomas's friend Gerry Conway.) Since both that series and A-SS were set during WWII, the fit is seamless. Equally seamless is the art, thanks to Jerry Ordway re-inking Don Heck's "Steel" art while also inking the pencil art of Adrian Gonzales (who replaced Rich Buckler as default A-SS artist halfway through the Aztec fiasco.)

Roy also brings in a couple other Conway creations, Baron Blitzkrieg (think Evil Iron Man working for the Nazis) and Kung the animal shapeshifter (I wonder if Kung directly inspired prime-time schlockmeister Glen A. Larson to create the TV series "Manimal.") Both make perfect villains for A-SS, with the Baron arguably becoming the Golden Age heroes' arch-nemesis (in Roy's Golden Age stories at least.) His surprising origin, which gives him a direct connection to Steel, works better than I expected. I tend to be wary of superhero writers using the horrors of the death camps (i.e. Chris Claremont retroactively turning Magneto a Holocaust survivor,) but Roy somehow manages to avoid trivializing or exploiting this all-time-low in human history. Roy also makes a point in the origin sequence about violence always begetting more violence no matter the intent; I'm not so sure at this moment that he succeeded there -- I must think harder.

Overall, Roy at the very least equals the quality of the 3-issue time-travel opener here. And since I am well-versed in his Marvel work, I feel confident declaring that the Steel arc of A-SS was the first time he succeeded even halfway in combining Real Life seriousness with superhero escapism.