Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23

Thanks for the welcome backs, Annfie, stile86, and Cramey.


Hmm. Maybe the Time Trapper is manipulating us.


Agreed, if not before. One of the things I've learned to appreciate from my lengthened perspective of having lived long enough and written lots of stuff is that there really is a time when writers need to move on. At the time, I loved Levitz's writing and admired his dedication to the Legion, something few other writers had displayed. But that dedication carries with it a certain single-minded thinking about what should be in a Legion story, how far to go with the characters, and so on. At his best, Levitz really explored the personal relationships among the Legionnaires and had them grow into mature adults. Dream Girl coming into her own as leader, Star Boy's departure, the three founders stepping back . . . these were tsome of the high points of his tenure, for me. The villain stuff not so much, though there were a few exceptions.


Never read that one, and it sounds like I was spared.


True, and as you said, there are a lot of writers--then and now--who could handle exposition better. I really think less is more. Once you've established that this Superman can't handle the timestream as well as Superboy and that he doesn't recognize Smallville, that's enough. Move on. A lot of comic book writers seem to think readers have ADHD and need to be reminded of something important every few pages. Having taught writing for many years, I've learned that readers retain a lot more than writers think.


This got me to thinking how I would handle this story. I'd keep the basic premise and outline the same, but I'd expand it in a few places. I'd give the Time Trapper a stronger motivation for wanting to create a pocket universe and divert the Legion to it--something has to be at stake for him other than the "Bored out of his skull at the end of time nastiness" he exhibits whenever he does something. I'd have expanded the scene with the Kents and Clark. I'd have given the stasis-frozen Legionnaires more to do. In particular, I would have emphasized Mon-El's relationship with Superboy sooner to make the payoff at the end even sadder. I think all of this could be done without expanding the length of the story. It might mean cutting some of the unnecessary subplots, but this story would warrant doing so.


Well put. In a way, Levitz's tenure was all about what is lost by growing up. This theme could have been brought out stronger in this story.

Off the top my head...

I would've done some of the same things as He Who -- more Mon-El and Superboy, more of the Kents -- and I would also have had a smaller lineup of Legionnaires. I like Blok and Jacques, but they seemed to be there mainly because Levitz wanted it that way. Lydda and Rokk should also have stayed in the future, even if their trip to the past in the Cosmic Boy mini-series was what got the whole thing rolling (we could say that they were still recovering from the traumas brought on by the trip.) I adore Brainy, but having him around is too much on-the-nose and detracts from the sense of mystery as to the Trapper's motivations.

Next, I would reunite the lineup from the first Mordru story -- Luornu, Kal, Mon, and Tasmia -- and have the Trapper strand them in the Pocket Universe. The Trapper's motivation would be something along the lines of wanting to preserve the elusive spirit of the team, and this was the last time the spirit was there (not a million miles from my own opinion that something was lost around that time, although I consider the breaking point to be the School for Super-Villains story, also Curt Swan's...er...swan song.) Luornu would be tempted to stay in the pocket universe forever, as this would mean that her Superboy crush from her younger days would finally get to the next level; in the end, she would reject the unreality of it all and undo the Trapper's plans. In the end, Superboy must remain in the pocket universe to preserve the space-time continuum. Luornu, Mon, and Tasmia would all return to the future, but the relationships between Tasmia & Mon and Luornu & Chuck would be irreparably damaged.

Love the idea of reuniting the team from the first Mordru story!

I've always thought that I would like to have tied this in to the Douglas Nolan story from LSH #300. So the Pocket Universe would also be the universe to which he went at the end of that story. His powers would play an important role in the creation of an impenetrable "Iron Curtain of Time" that protects that universe. And I would have segments set in Pocket Universe Smallville, Pocket Universe Metropolis fifteen years later (in which *a* Supergirl would still be alive), and a Pocket Universe 30th century that would be similar to the Adult Legion stories. So basically all of that Silver Age Lore would be preserved, though theoretically inaccessible.

Thank you kindly.


Great stuff here, EDE!

Some great ideas here. Using the Mordru story team is a great idea.


Another great idea.
Maybe have a new thread of story ideas for how to handle Superboy's departure form the Legion stories.

This was Byrne's last contribution before returning to Marvel. Superman vol 2 #21-22, Adventures of Superman vol 1 #444. Quite dramatic, extremely apocalyptic, and controversial amongst fans much as the more recent "Man of Steel" movie was. To pre-Crisis fans Superman doesn't kill. In the post-Crisis universe this is where he learns that lesson after the act. To their credit the ongoing writing team of the Superman titles (there were three at the time, the other being Action Comics) didn't just ignore and the event but explored it's consequences over the next few years.
Personally I enjoyed the arc as I saw it as the journey of the hero becoming more like the one we previously knew. The character remained true throughout more as a developing personality than as the static final result. I am still a fan of the Silver and Bronze aged Superman but also of the post-Crisis version. I could wish however that it's impacts on the Legion were not so great particularly with the later editorial demand to remove Superboy completely which of course had to be later reversed at least a little.

Thanks for the kind words, Stile.

As for Post-Crisis Superman, I've come to loathe 80 percent of everything DC has published since 1967, so I'm not able to give an unbiased objective counterpoint. As I said earlier in this thread, the changes to Superman Post-Crisis felt like DC was stomping on my childhood memories of the Christopher Reeve/Richard Donner cinematic Superman. And for that, I'll never forgive them.

EDIT: I think I should specify -- I've come to believe that the Post-Crisis Superman is such a sorry mess (apologies to Lardy and Cobie and Stile and other loyal fans of that era) that the "Death" stunt was inevitable; but that doesn't make it forgivable. Especially considering how the Death Stunt did as much as, or even more, to harm the comics industry than Marvel's gimmicks.

Thanks for the summary of the Superman story, stile.

It sounds like there was much of merit here, such as Superman facing the impossible choice of risking further desctruction caused by the Phantom Zone villains or executing them, and of the guilt he suffered afterwards. Personally, I don't have a problem with such developments as long as they are well done, and it sounds like these led to meaningful change in the character. If he adopted his code against killing after having killed, then it makes his decision all the more profound. That isn't to say he couldn't have arrived at this choice in another way; indeed, one doesn't have to cause harm to know causing harm is wrong. But there is something powerful and more modern (in an '80s sense, anyway) of a warrior who renounces war, of a criminal who renounces crime, of someone who has experienced the darkness of his own soul and has determined to learn from those mistakes . . . a sort of redemption arc, perhaps.

None of this relates to the Legion, though, and that's a shame. An older, wiser Superman would have much to teach the Legionnaires, and vice versa.

Totally understandable how you fell Annie. Makes sense and I certainly won't deny that there is a lot of sorry mess in there. I have come to be less appreciative of the Death stunt as you call it over the years although I still appreciate much of the characterisation that was written into it and some (not all) of the follow-on stories from it. I described it to someone at the time as "super-hero soap opera" and I think that shows both its good and bad elements. It also gave us a couple of great characters like John Henry Irons and Connor Kent, although much of the good bits were more from development by later writers.
You're welcome He Who and I feel much as you do about the value of a redemption arc. Your comment about the Legion connection is spot on. We did see him interact with the Legion briefly during the 5YL era, with the Reboot when they were stranded in the 20th Century, and with the Retroboot with Johns tale. Each of them tried to show the best of Superman and how he continued to be an example to them, but since the whole Execution/Exile arc came about because of editorial decisions to separate the two families there was no way we could see much interaction and like you say as a Legion fan that is a pity.