Roll Call
0 members (), 40 Murran Spies, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Time-Scope
I AM NOT LIKE YOU
by Invisible Brainiac - 11/25/24 01:33 AM
Legion Trivia 6
by Invisible Brainiac - 11/25/24 01:31 AM
Inane one word posts XXXIV - inanity
by Invisible Brainiac - 11/25/24 01:30 AM
Kill This Thread LVIV - The Big Chess Board
by Invisible Brainiac - 11/25/24 01:29 AM
An EDE Super-Retro Review: New Fun #1
by Ann Hebistand - 11/24/24 09:35 AM
Dan Parent wants to write the Legion
by Ann Hebistand - 11/24/24 09:32 AM
Recent Legion-verse sightings in DCU proper
by Alexander - 11/24/24 09:30 AM
So, what are you listening to?
by Ann Hebistand - 11/23/24 10:07 AM
Omnicom
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
#970157 04/23/19 03:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
LSH #37 "A Twist in Time" by Paul Levitz, art by Greg LaRocque , Mike DeCarlo & Arne Starr, colors by Carl Gafford, letters by John Costanza

[Linked Image]

A number of Legionnaires help Brainiac 5 and Circadia Senius repair the time beacon. They suspect the Time Trapper, based on Cosmic Boy's report that history has been changed. Brainy wants to take the entire team to fight the Trapper at the end of time but Polar Boy advises that Earthgov wants some Legionnaires to remain, in case of a Khund attack.

Saturn Girl, Sensor Girl and Tellus make the last arrangements to confine Universo on Labyrinth.

Brainy, Mon-el, Cosmic Boy, Blok, Ultra Boy and Night Girl depart in a time bubble, propelled by Mon-el. Instead of the end of time, they wind up in Smallville, Superboy's time.

Dream Girl has a bad dream, but the visions are clouded.

The time-travelling Legionnaires dress in era-appropriate clothing, run into Pete Ross, who mentions that Smallville had red skies and an energy wall a few weeks ago. He figures Superboy fixed it but won't talk about what happened and has been quiet ever since. The Legionnaires meet up with the Kents.

Back in the future, Gigi and Shvaughn supervise Dvron's maintenance of the Crimewatcher system; Marella Tao arrives and asks to speak with them. At Legion HQ, Wildfire surprises Dawnstar in his new energy body.

In Smallville, the Legionnaires enjoy supper with the Kents. Clark arrives and invites them down to the basement to talk. As they're admiring the Legion statuettes, Clark turns a stasis beam on them. Pa Kent tells him that there are four more Legionnaires at the time bubble. Lana arrives, asking for help with her homework.

At Legion HQ, Element Lad gives Polar Boy a pep talk.

Pete Ross warns the Legionnaires that something's wrong and they should escape right away, since there were screams from the Kent house but no one came out. They leave, pursued by Superboy with the stasis beam. He fires it, but misses them. Superboy decides he must travel through time to trap all the Legionnaires in order to save his world. The Time Trapper gloats that the Legion has found its past history, Superboy has kept his world safe and it will all be dust when the Trapper rules eternity.

Comments:

A super-setup issue: the main story begins the death of Superboy tale, with its considerable repercussions for the Legion. I don't know if at this point anyone reading LSH would know that Superboy was to be removed from DC continuity; based on the story, we only know that there's been trouble in Smallville and Superboy has a problem with the Legion as a result.

The forced trip to Smallville is a nostalgia journey for the readers as well as the Legionnaires. They meet Chief Parker and Pete Ross and have dinner with the Kents. There are a couple of elements that are off: they have 20th century clothes, although they were headed to the end of time and Lydda, who was complaining about the primitive 20th century in the Cosmic Boy series, appears to be enjoying this even earlier era.

The Kents here are old; they were de-aged in 1986 (looked it up on-line), so this story from 1987 would have tipped off readers, but not the Legion, that something was going on. Had anyone in the Legion ever met the younger version of the Kents? This is the sort of thing that has me confused.

We're left at the end of the issue with questions: why did Superboy have to trap the Legion (although the verb "trap" indicates Time Trapper is manipulating him)? The Legionnaires who escape in the time bubble wonder if they've found the real past, as they knew it, or if this was an evil Superboy. Superboy is travelling to the future at the end, so the Legionnaires in the Kents' basement are, presumably, still held in stasis - although the ever-resourceful Pete Ross had said he would return to the Kents to investigate. All in all, I think it's a good set-up for the next story, whether or not you know Superboy is getting the kryptonite axe from DC.

Dream Girl gets a full page to let us know bad times are ahead. She's just covered enough with a sheet, so this is more eye-candy than anything essential to the story. There are images of her with Atmos, a silhouette of a man (Thom?), Wildfire in his new body and some other male face.

Fixing the time beacon took up quite a few pages but I didn't find it dull. We got to see various Legionnaires use their power, as well as a guest appearance from Circadia Senius; the artwork was interesting and the dialogue summed up the Legion's preparations after Cosmic Boy informed them about the Time Trapper changing history.

Polar Boy interrupts Brainy's call for other Legionnaires to join them by freezing Brainy's flight ring rather than calling out "Wait!" We don't get to see the Legionnaires' reactions since the next page switches to Labyrinth, so I can only imagine a few choice words were expressed.

Universo is settled in Labyrinth. Apart from Imra describing Universo as "almost a pure evil force", this page doesn't do any more than wrap-up The Universo Project. With two pages in the previous issue and one in this to emphasize that Universo was a badass, you'd expect him to stage a return appearance in the future. Possibly it was a plot that was discarded, or just an idea to leave an opening for a later tale.

We do learn that Labyrinth mostly denies prisoners "full consciousness or mobility" and that's considered less humane than Takron-Galtos. Tellus refers to a maze which Jeckie navigates (saving the others from needing a ball of string), although the artwork doesn't give any visual clue to what this looks like.

Lydda damns Polar Boy with faint praise, saying he was known for courage and intuition, not logic, causing Rokk to express some concern. However, Element Lad appears to be closely shadowing and encouraging the new leader, which gives a sense of stability.

There's also a new Wildfire-Dawnstar dynamic and Marella Tao consults the SP girlfriends of Legionnaires, presumably about her relationship with Timber Wolf. The Dawnstar-Wildfire thing was getting old; this won't help the relationship, but it does offer some hope at this point to fans of the couple.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970227 04/25/19 07:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
LSH Baxter #37: The Greatest Hero of Them All (Part 1 of 4)

As Cramey noted in her above review, this is mainly a setup issue. And as that sub-category of issues go, it's a good one. Almost as good, I daresay, as Levitz's opening installment of "The Universo Project." Of course, it certainly helps that LaRocque, DeCarlo, Starr, and Gafford all seem to be putting in a bit of extra effort. The lovingly rendered and colored portrayal of Smallville as a microcosm of idealized Americana is enough to make even a skeptic like myself wonder if there might be a grain of truth to it. And, oh, those outdated youth fashions are a scream (Lydda, though, looks adorable in that pink dress, it has to be said.) The Time Trapper has, to my mind, never looked this imposing or scary as he does in the cliffhanger. All told, a more-than-decent read as long as I read it objectively, ignoring the taint that the long-term repercussions of this storyline would have on the Legion mythos.)

Now, I must add the caveat that, until just now when I was re-reading Cramey's plot summary as I typed this post, I never before realized that at least 7 story pages have been omitted from this reprint volume (as I noted in an earlier post, it's Superman: Man of Steel Volume 4, the series of trades which collected the entire John Byrne/Marv Wolfman/Jerry Ordway run in chronological order.) I'm sure the missing pages were inessential, but if LaRocque drew them, I'd like to see them (I should also note that Baxter Legion #37-38 have always tended to be overpriced as back issues, which was why I went with the reprints. More fool me.)

So, I give this three-quarters-of-an-issue 8 out of 10 Taryns:

CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen


Originally Posted by Cramey
Fixing the time beacon took up quite a few pages but I didn't find it dull. We got to see various Legionnaires use their power, as well as a guest appearance from Circadia Senius; the artwork was interesting and the dialogue summed up the Legion's preparations after Cosmic Boy informed them about the Time Trapper changing history.


Agreed 100 percent. It's almost like a master-course in efficient, economical ways for creators to make expository scenes interesting.

NOTE: Part 2 of this storyline is in Superman v.2 #8, which I will review very soon.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970242 04/25/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Superman v.2 #8: The Greatest Hero of Them All (Part 2 of 4)

The time bubble containing the four Legionnaires who were not put into stasis by Superboy -- Brainiac 5, Blok, Invisible Kid, and Sun Boy -- crash lands in the Post-Crisis DCU, where Superman was never Superboy (or, as Grant Morrison put it so well in his prose book Supergods, "Clark Kent was no longer a nerd. Now he was your older sister's horny beefcake boyfriend.") This far more laddish and confident Supes gets into a Marvel-style heroes-on-heroes brawl with the time-lost Legionnaires (a quick digression: on this issue's cover, John Byrne homages his own cover to "Fantastic Four" #250, which spotlighted Marvel's main Superman analog, Gladiator (who was co-created by legendary Legion artist Dave Cockrum -- six degrees and all that!) My thanks to Legion Worlder Lardy/Paladin for pointing this out while he and I were doing our Byrne F4 re-read some time ago.) After explanations-slash-exposition-slash-flashbacks (which includes another homage, Byrne's lovely re-creation of the Greg LaRocque Who's Who entry drawing of the LSH), the motley quintet of heroes is about to join forces when they are ambushed by Superboy, still wielding that darn old stasis ray!

As I've alluded to in the above synopsis, Byrne seems to be having fun with this issue. Alongside the aforementioned homages, he also reminds those of us who Remember Him When that he could stage an action sequence like nobody's business. Page 10, which is mostly Sun Boy fighting Supes, shows some particularly impressive Gil Kane-style anatomical workouts by Byrne. I do find Preppy Supes quite problematic, though -- I suppose that in the context of the late 1980s, when creeps like Booster Gold and Guy Gardner could become Direct Market demi-stars, a more jock-ish Supes made commercial sense, but I don't think he's dated any better than those two creeps. Still a mostly enjoyable read that zips the increasingly complicated plot along very efficiently and engagingly.

NOTE: Part 3 of this storyline is in Action Comics #591, which I'll review sometime this weekend, before Cramey reviews the spectacular finale -- in LSH Baxter #38 -- next week.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Ann Hebistand #970259 04/25/19 07:41 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
Wanderer
Offline
Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
LSH 37

Being both a Legion fan and a Superman fan I have actually read this tale more often as part of a Superman reread with the Legion parts inserted than as a Legion reread with the Superman parts inserted. Having the flow from previous LSH issues is good and a different experience. Makes the focus for me more on the legionnaires as it should.

This is a pretty good setup issue with some great artwork, particularly the first two pages. Sun Boy looks amazing on page 2.

The time travel sequence is also nicely done, reflecting the stormy nature of the present trip. The Trapper's appearance is a little different to previous versions, particularly the background of his "fortress". My suspicion is that this is Byrne's design as it appears in his Superman books and Greg has copied that arrangement here to maintain flow through the four parter.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Brainy, Mon-el, Cosmic Boy, Blok, Ultra Boy and Night Girl depart in a time bubble, propelled by Mon-el. Instead of the end of time, they wind up in Smallville, Superboy's time.

Sun Boy and Invisible Kid also join the trip to the past.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Clark arrives and invites them down to the basement to talk. As they're admiring the Legion statuettes, Clark turns a stasis beam on them.

The selection of statues shown is interesting. I note that it includes all four deceased legionnaires - Ferro Lad, Invisible Kid, Chemical King and Karate Kid. It also includes the retired Tyroc, Matter-Eater Lad and Bouncing Boy although I can't see Duplicate Girl unless that is her behind Blok with miscoloured blonde hair. At first I thought it was Light Lass but there is a redheaded Lightning Lass on the upper shelf. Also of interest is that Princess Projectra is there rather than Sensor Girl and none of the newest legionnaires which makes sense since the Legion hasn't been in touch with Superboy since the curing of Mon-El's lead poisoning. Anybody else notice anything about them?

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Pete Ross warns the Legionnaires that something's wrong and they should escape right away, since there were screams from the Kent house but no one came out.

This line seemed a bit funny to me. The trapped legionnaires only manage brief surprised comments like "Hu--" "I--" and "Su--" before they are frozen. No screams are seen unless Lydda managed one off-panel. It made me wonder if Pete was somehow involved in the trap but judging by the rest of the tale apparently not.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
A super-setup issue: the main story begins the death of Superboy tale, with its considerable repercussions for the Legion. I don't know if at this point anyone reading LSH would know that Superboy was to be removed from DC continuity; based on the story, we only know that there's been trouble in Smallville and Superboy has a problem with the Legion as a result.

I imagine that most Legion readers would be quite aware of the continuity problems caused by the Superman reboot. It had a huge amount of publicity at the time, even to TV interviews with Byrne. Even if they missed that LSH 36 discussed in the letters page the significance of the upcoming crossover (at least in it being required, not its end result) as well as including a full page ad for the four parts with the words "Superman vs Superboy. The DC Universe isn't big enough for both of them! Whose history will win?"

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The forced trip to Smallville is a nostalgia journey for the readers as well as the Legionnaires. They meet Chief Parker and Pete Ross and have dinner with the Kents. There are a couple of elements that are off: they have 20th century clothes, although they were headed to the end of time and Lydda, who was complaining about the primitive 20th century in the Cosmic Boy series, appears to be enjoying this even earlier era.

The Kents here are old; they were de-aged in 1986 (looked it up on-line), so this story from 1987 would have tipped off readers, but not the Legion, that something was going on. Had anyone in the Legion ever met the younger version of the Kents? This is the sort of thing that has me confused.

Maybe Brainy's enhanced Time Bubble includes replicator technology ala Star Trek? Good point about Lydda, although her previous attitude might have had a lot to do with having to keep patching up Rokk with no access to decent medical care. Still it doesn't fit very well.

I have read a few stories where the Kents appeared young and always wondered what was going on there. I will have to look into it more. I just accepted the older versions as normal. I did wonder a little about their familiarity with Jo and Rokk. Mon had lived with them for a while so that makes sense and they certainly knew of the Legionnaires but had they spent much time with the other two or even met them in previous stories? That was a big hug Martha gave Jo. Fits her personality fine but I just wondered.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
We're left at the end of the issue with questions: why did Superboy have to trap the Legion (although the verb "trap" indicates Time Trapper is manipulating him)? The Legionnaires who escape in the time bubble wonder if they've found the real past, as they knew it, or if this was an evil Superboy. Superboy is travelling to the future at the end, so the Legionnaires in the Kents' basement are, presumably, still held in stasis - although the ever-resourceful Pete Ross had said he would return to the Kents to investigate. All in all, I think it's a good set-up for the next story, whether or not you know Superboy is getting the kryptonite axe from DC.

Agreed. The story is well paced, intriguing, and leaves the reader wanting more. If this had to happen at least it is presented well.

Originally Posted by Ann Hebistand
As Cramey noted in her above review, this is mainly a setup issue. And as that sub-category of issues go, it's a good one. Almost as good, I daresay, as Levitz's opening installment of "The Universo Project." Of course, it certainly helps that LaRocque, DeCarlo, Starr, and Gafford all seem to be putting in a bit of extra effort. The lovingly rendered and colored portrayal of Smallville as a microcosm of idealized Americana is enough to make even a skeptic like myself wonder if there might be a grain of truth to it. And, oh, those outdated youth fashions are a scream (Lydda, though, looks adorable in that pink dress, it has to be said.) The Time Trapper has, to my mind, never looked this imposing or scary as he does in the cliffhanger. All told, a more-than-decent read as long as I read it objectively, ignoring the taint that the long-term repercussions of this storyline would have on the Legion mythos.)

Again I agree.

Originally Posted by Ann Hebistand
Now, I must add the caveat that, until just now when I was re-reading Cramey's plot summary as I typed this post, I never before realized that at least 7 story pages have been omitted from this reprint volume (as I noted in an earlier post, it's Superman: Man of Steel Volume 4, the series of trades which collected the entire John Byrne/Marv Wolfman/Jerry Ordway run in chronological order.) I'm sure the missing pages were inessential, but if LaRocque drew them, I'd like to see them (I should also note that Baxter Legion #37-38 have always tended to be overpriced as back issues, which was why I went with the reprints. More fool me.)


Here you go.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2621ahw.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/1z4jsi0.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/2vifk07.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2dtuqfs.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/34tdggh.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/rst1d5.jpg

One other difference is that the bottom of the final page of the Trapper gloating had an ad for the following parts in Superman and Action with their covers.

The remaining pages were two letters pages and a dedication to E. Nelson Bridwell who had recently passed away. Can't remember if he ever had anything to do with the Legion although he was Mort Weisinger's assistant so it wouldn't have been surprising. Dick Giordano who wrote the dedication spoke long on his encyclopedic knowledge of the Superman universe. He gives the example of asking Nelson once how many moons Krypton had to which he answered "You mean originally or when it exploded?" He went on to tell with great authority the fates of each of that planet's satellites.


Last edited by stile86; 04/25/19 08:13 PM. Reason: additional info
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970261 04/25/19 08:02 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
Wanderer
Offline
Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
Tales from the Letters pages

LSH 37 in Readers Roundup has a suggestion to fix the discrepancies in Mon-El's origin by having him arrive on Earth in Superman's time. Pl's reply is:
Quote
Actually, that was one of the most seriously considered options in reconciling the new Superman continuity to ours, and was at one time the plotline of Man of Steel #6. We've opted instead for a grander scheme ...

Of course after Infinite Crisis Geoff Johns solution was to have Clark do some super saving as a teenager and meet the Legion and Mon-El much as in the original continuity but not do it in costume, so he still only became Superman as an adult but there was a "super boy" that the Legion met. Of course this wouldn't work with Byrne's rewrite which had his powers only developing over time so Clark is about eighteen (?) before he is mostly powered.

LSH 42 has a few letters discussing issue 37 but the responses also include comments regarding the entire tale so I will leave those until we are finished.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970269 04/25/19 11:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,767
R
Legionnaire!
Offline
Legionnaire!
R
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,767
I can't believe this never occurred to me before but...does that mean for the whole time that the pocket universe Superboy was canon, Mon-El was also a Time Trapper creation?? I mean they never did anything during that period to divorce his origin from classic Superboy, right? So presumably his Daxam originated in Superboy's reality?

It feels like they dealt with Kara & Krypto by getting rid of them and Dev-Em was retconned in the 5YL period but I don't remember any of it being addressed with Mon?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970274 04/26/19 07:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648
Trap Timer
Offline
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648
I believe the "fix" (from WWitLSH?) was that the Trapper shunted Mon-El from the regular universe into the Pocket Universe so he could meet Superboy per his origin.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970276 04/26/19 07:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
The real "fix" was the one that the creators were in thanks to Crisis.

:rimshot:

Thank you, I'm here all week. Tip your server.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Eryk Davis Ester #970314 04/26/19 08:45 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
Wanderer
Offline
Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
Originally Posted by razsolo
I can't believe this never occurred to me before but...does that mean for the whole time that the pocket universe Superboy was canon, Mon-El was also a Time Trapper creation?? I mean they never did anything during that period to divorce his origin from classic Superboy, right? So presumably his Daxam originated in Superboy's reality?

It feels like they dealt with Kara & Krypto by getting rid of them and Dev-Em was retconned in the 5YL period but I don't remember any of it being addressed with Mon?

Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
I believe the "fix" (from WWitLSH?) was that the Trapper shunted Mon-El from the regular universe into the Pocket Universe so he could meet Superboy per his origin.

In the infamous LSH v4 #4 when Mon-El is face to face with the Trapper, TT claims repeatedly to have created not just the Legion but specifically Mon-El as a sort of insurance policy, an indestructible host he could take refuge in if that ever became necessary.
Yes according to Who's Who LSH Lar Gand originated in the main unverse Daxam and was shunted by the Trapper into his Pocket Universe, so while his physical birth occurred separately it was the Trapper who made sure he would become Mon-El of the Legion. In that sense he was the Trapper's creation from Crisis onwards. If you want a source in the regular comics V4 #4 comes closest and in the original Pocket Universe four parter Byrne has the Trapper saying that he pruned down the Universe to just Krypton and Earth.

Of course this ignores the issue of Mon-El's power level being the same as Superboy's which came from the Trapper's chnages to Krypton and Earth in his Pocket Universe, so that is a slightly unresolved issue.

Supergirl was another issue that was just ignored because she wasn't around anymore. Also ignored or assumed not to have happened were all the interactions with the Pre-crisis Superman. I guess you can assign them to that alternate reality shown in LSH v2 #300.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970358 04/28/19 02:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Originally Posted by stile86
This line seemed a bit funny to me. The trapped legionnaires only manage brief surprised comments like "Hu--" "I--" and "Su--" before they are frozen. No screams are seen unless Lydda managed one off-panel. It made me wonder if Pete was somehow involved in the trap but judging by the rest of the tale apparently not.


It hadn't occurred to me that Pete could have been part of the trap. He could well have been working with Superboy. Great idea!

Quote
The remaining pages were two letters pages and a dedication to E. Nelson Bridwell who had recently passed away. Can't remember if he ever had anything to do with the Legion although he was Mort Weisinger's assistant so it wouldn't have been surprising. Dick Giordano who wrote the dedication spoke long on his encyclopedic knowledge of the Superman universe. He gives the example of asking Nelson once how many moons Krypton had to which he answered "You mean originally or when it exploded?" He went on to tell with great authority the fates of each of that planet's satellites.


E. Nelson Bridwell wrote a few Legion stories, back in 1969, specifically: Action Comics (Legion of Super-Heroes): #379, 383, 385–387, 390–391; Adventure Comics (Legion of Super-Heroes): #350, 351, 356, 403 (issue numbers from wikipedia, I just checked a few for accuracy).

Originally Posted by Ann
As I've alluded to in the above synopsis, Byrne seems to be having fun with this issue. Alongside the aforementioned homages, he also reminds those of us who Remember Him When that he could stage an action sequence like nobody's business.


Thanks for the review! When Byrne was good, he was very very good.

Originally Posted by raz
I can't believe this never occurred to me before but...does that mean for the whole time that the pocket universe Superboy was canon, Mon-El was also a Time Trapper creation??


Wow, I didn't think of that either while reading this! Continuity is messy.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970377 04/28/19 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Action Comics #591: "The Greatest Hero of Them All" (Part 3 of 4)

Superboy succeeds in freezing Superman and the four Legionnaires (Brainy, Dirk, Jacques, and Blok,) but the effect wears off on Supes quicker than on the others, so he flies after Superboy just as Superboy is breaking the time barrier. Superman crash-lands in The Other Smallville, where The Other Pete Ross assumed he's Superboy aged into an adult by Red Kryptonite, and takes him home to The Other Ma & Pa Kent. Enter Superboy, who starts a fight that ends up a brawl in the skies above Smallville. Krypto the Super-Dog joins the fray briefly, before strategically retreating to fetch his master's sample of Gold Kryptonite, the one that permanently de-powers any super-sentient. But the Gold K takes effect too quickly on Krypto, turning him into a normal dog. Pa Kent fills a lead container with all the Kryptonite samples and foists it at Superman. It turns out that Kryptonite emits different kinds of radiation in different universes, and this one is not harmful to out-of-towner Supes. Finally, Superboy admits that he deliberately held back every time he could have killed Superman, because whatever else he really is, he's not a killer. The Legionnaires are un-frozen, and everyone boards the time bubble, stopping in the Post-Crisis Universe to drop off Superman, whom Brainy has convinced should not put himself at the risk of harm by the Time Trapper. Superman wishes the five heroes good luck on their deadly mission ahead.

Superman seems more like himself in this issue, or at least the way I prefer him to be. While Byrne doesn't hesitate to point out the absurdity of Krypto the Super Dog, or the idealized unreality of The Other Smallville, I do sense at the very least an undercurrent of affection for these supposedly outdated tropes which get one last hurrah here. Kudos, too, for not killing Krypto, like Alan Moore did in "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

I am starting to believe that this storyline *in itself* is actually a decent read, and that the repercussions *could* have been positive and fruitful *if* they'd been executed *differently.* We shall see in the next few days, when Cramey leads us in discussing Part 4.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
stile86 #970395 04/29/19 04:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,767
R
Legionnaire!
Offline
Legionnaire!
R
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,767
Originally Posted by stile86

Yes according to Who's Who LSH Lar Gand originated in the main unverse Daxam and was shunted by the Trapper into his Pocket Universe, so while his physical birth occurred separately it was the Trapper who made sure he would become Mon-El of the Legion. In that sense he was the Trapper's creation from Crisis onwards. If you want a source in the regular comics V4 #4 comes closest and in the original Pocket Universe four parter Byrne has the Trapper saying that he pruned down the Universe to just Krypton and Earth.

Thanks everyone...I do actually remember reading that now you mention it stile, I think I just didn't think through the ramifications of it with Superboy being in another universe and all.

One of those things where I'm not sure if there's a good story behind why Mon specifically over any other Kryptonian stand-in was chosen or if it's one of those things that unravels if you pull at the strings too much...prior to the "Valor seeded the UP worlds" idea it's not like Mon had any particular role in history that needed to be maintained so you'd think it'd be easier for the Trapper to just pick some other Daxamite from the Legion's actual time if he just needed an indestructible potential host...

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970415 04/30/19 02:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
LSH #38 "The Greatest Hero of Them All" by Paul Levitz, art by Greg LaRocque, Mike DeCarlo & Arne Starr, colors by Carl Gafford, letters by John Costanza

[Linked Image]

After the events of Superman #8 & Action #591, the Legionnaires and Superboy leave Superman's time for Smallville, with some concern whether or not they'll reach their version of the past. En route, Superboy explains why he put Mon-el, Ultra Boy, Cosmic Boy and Night Girl in stasis. Earlier, a red cloud had appeared and natural disasters struck Smallville, then a wall of anti-matter began disintegrating the planet. As Superboy flew to try and stop it, the Time Trapper appeared.

The Trapper continues the story, addressing the Legionnaires in stasis. The Trapper would create a device, to be placed in Smallville, which would save Superboy's Earth. In exchange, Superboy would have to capture the Legionnaires. The Trapper was insulted that they had travelled through time, which was his domain. He had always guided them to a particular corner of reality and will now use that reality to bring about the end of time.

At Legion HQ, Dawnstar is not impressed with Wildfire's new human form tells him she can not touch the true man inside him. She flies off, leaving an irate Wildfire.

Arriving in Smallville, Brainy uses a device to simulate the stasis beam on the Sun Boy, Invisible Kid, Blok and himself; Superboy hopes to fool the Time Trapper with this. However, the Time Trapper decides that Superboy must kill them and hands Superboy a special gun. Superboy refuses; the four Legionnaires break out of their fake stasis to join him and fight the Trapper. Brainy whips up a device to reverse the stasis of the other Legionnaires and they join in the fight. The Trapper offers Superboy another chance to kill the Legionnaires; as Superboy strikes at him, he destroys the device that was keeping the world safe.

At Legion HQ, Polar Boy is still fretting over whether he should have sent the whole team to Smallville. Dream Girl tells him not to worry and says the Legion's never had a better leader, including herself.

In Smallville, chaos erupts as disasters strike Smallville. The Time Trapper watches and monologues, claiming that events elsewhere in the time stream have prevented the alternate realities from destroying each other. He tells the Legionnaires that this was never their past, just a construction he sent them to; all centuries will survive, but they won't. Then he disappears, laughing.

Cosmic Boy appeals to Brainy to fix the Time Trapper's machinery but Brainy complains it's impossible. The containment vessel is broken and can not contain the energies. Superboy flies in and decides to channel the energies through himself. He refuses help from Mon-el and Ultra Boy, tells them to go back to their time and he intends to try and save his world. The Legionnaires realize he's dying but he succeeds, collapsing in Mon-el's arms. The machine somehow moved this universe somewhere else. The Legionnaires carry Superboy into the time bubble so they can try and save him in the 30th century, but he breaks away, slams the door and summons the strength to push their bubble back to the 30th century. As they arrive, Mon-el rushes out and flies Superboy to the multi-lab, but he dies en route, asking Mon-el to take care of Earth.

The Legionnaires prepare for Superboy's funeral. Brainy muses that he never did find a way to the past. Cos suggests he will find a way through time to get back at the Time Trapper. The White Witch claims she can not find Superboy's Earth but senses it is safe. Polar Boy vows to find out if an immortal can die. The Legionnaires bid farewell to Superboy, surrounding his casket.



Comments:
There have been several Legionnaire deaths; they've been relatively quick, with no expectation of a last-minute save. Superboy's death took a lot longer and both reader and the Legionnaires held out hope for a rescue from Brainy's miraculous 30th century medicine. I could feel Mon-el's desperation as he raced for the multi-lab.

I'm rather annoyed with DC for this death and wonder, decades later, if there wasn't a better way to deal with a revised history for Superman. Superboy's just a fictional character, but it's kind of hard to accept this death, heroic as it was. It's like obliterating part of my childhood. There's something very poetic about Superboy gaining his powers from the energies of his adopted planet's Sun, then giving his life to save that planet by absorbing energies of a disintegrating time stream.

The Time Trapper is in a big snit because the Legionnaires trespassed on his precious time stream. His explanation of what he's done doesn't come across as long-winded, however; it may or may not make sense to physicists, but the pocket universe is a fascinating and astounding reveal.

As the closest one to Superboy, it's fitting that Mon-el is the one who tries to intercede in Superboy's actions, rushes him for help and is there at the very end. Mon-el is also the most prominent figure - the only one fully drawn - at the funeral, yet with his back to the readers, cloaked, as though overtaken by grief.

I felt much sympathy for the Kents, who don't even have a body to bury. Do they know their son is dead or think/hope that he is alive in the future?

Legion helping Smallville residents struck me as a bit of a distraction while the big guns fight the Time Trapper, but that's what the Legion does, they respond to people in need of saving.

When Superboy refuses to kill the Legionnaires, he really looks like Superman.

Beautiful cover, one of my favourites. Out of context, it's just Dawnstar, Superboy (I presume, with the cape) and a few other figures; representing this story, it's considerably more affecting. Setting sun, indicating death, or rising sun, a tribute to Superboy's life: it works both ways.

The funeral scene is also impressive and, I believe, the only funeral we've seen in the Legion. Everyone is there, except Quislet, R.J. Brande and the Subs, even Thom has returned from Lallor. Lydda is absent, which surprised me since she was on the fateful mission.

The interludes are dull compared to the main story. I think they might have been left out, although they're well-placed in terms of cliff-hanger moments. The Nura and Brek scene is a bit baffling: she encourages him in his new role as leader and states he'll be the best - prophetic vision, or pep talk? Looks like the Dawnstar-Wildfire soap opera will continue with little progress in their relationship; Drake has seriously misjudged Dawnstar's reaction. Again.

One question: Mon-el pushed the time bubble in the previous issue, Superboy pushes it in this one. Is their physical power needed to cross any barrier the Trapper might have erected?


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970667 05/06/19 05:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
LSH Baxter #38: "The Greatest Hero of Them All" (Part 4 of 4)

Not much really to add after Cramey's very thorough and highly thoughtful review above.

(Also, I confess I'm a bit tired after writing and posting 5 chapters of fan fiction in less than 48 hours. Sorry, Re-Readers.)

Although this concluding installment is more convoluted and weaker than the set-up in issue #37, it's really not that bad. Because while the Trapper's cloudy excuse of "mysterious forces" or whatever he said feels exactly like the lame patch that it is, the story is undeniably affecting. Put it this way -- I've never liked Mon-El more than in this issue. He's neither angst-ridden or patronizing, like I usually find him. He's extraordinarily noble, loyal, and strong, while still movingly vulnerable. And kudos to Greg LaRocque for avoiding the teary-eyed bawling face cliché. Having Mon's face buried in the just-deceased Superboy's shoulder is a brilliant artistic choice, and combined with LaRocque's nuanced body language, makes for a truly unforgettable panel, worthy of the LSH Hall of Fame!

Where I now think DC went badly wrong was in John Byrne's subsequent handling of the Pocket Universe in the Superman books, with Kryptonian Phantom Zone escapees killing everybody, and Superman killing THEM, and the whole weirdness of Matrix Supergirl/Play-Doh Lass, which didn't sit well with me until the mid-late 1990s, when Peter Allen David merged her with a vicious, amoral juvenile delinquent in need of redemption, to what I personally feel was great effect.

Finally, I not only empathize with Cramey's feeling of having her childhood memories stomped on by Superboy's death, but it also puts me in mind of how low DC sank only a few years later by promoting the hell out of Superman's upcoming "death" (and I, stupidly, believed they really were going to kill him -- if I knew then what I know now, et cetera.) The first two Christopher Reeve Superman movies were a milestone of my childhood, and the whole thing felt squinky. And later, when they brought Supes back to life with a mullet, that just added insult to injury. It makes me wanna scream at DC's collective brain trust of the past four decades, "Just give us good stories, dammit! The rest will take care of itself!"

But for LSH Baxter #38 in and of itself, 7 out of 10 Taryns (I'm too tired to copy and paste the graemlins, though.)


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970772 05/09/19 11:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
LSH #39 "The One That Got Away" by Paul Levitz, art by Greg LaRocque & Mike DeCarlo, Guest artists Curt Swan & Romeo Tanghal, colors by Carl Gafford, letters by John Costanza

[Linked Image]

Gigi Cusimano ponders a small jewelry box, trying to decide something. She gets a message from Sun Boy telling her to make up her mind about his one-time offer, then returns to her thinking, reflecting on her early days at the SP Academy.

She and Gim Allon were a couple at the Academy. They were vacationing at a Mars resort when Gim was struck by a meteorite, which changed his RNA structure. While he was recuperating in the SP infirmary on Mars, a prisoner broke out of the inmates' wing. Gim and Gigi remained on Mars so Gim could further recover; one day they heard a shout of "Thief!" and pursued the miscreant, hoping their initiative would get them good postings. Gigi spotted the man who broke out of the infirmary; he knocked her unconscious and carried her off. Gim chased him; as the thief ascended in a trans-tube, Gim suddenly grew and grabbed him. The thief threw Gigi to Gim and escaped.

The two of them studied the thief's actions and determined that he'd return to the same district because he needed medication. They did spot the thief and chased him, but he blasted the ceiling to block Gim. Gim grew to deflect the rubble while Gigi tackled the thief.

Later, they dined with Gim's parents; Gim's new superpower limited his future as an SP officer, so his father proposed he join the Fleet and his mother suggested he try for the newly formed Legion of Super-Heroes.

Gim was accepted into the Legion, along with Chameleon Boy. He and Gigi split up amicably as she heads for a posting on Takron-Galtos under Lieutentant Zendak.

Gigi's thoughts return to the present. She messages Sun Boy, turning down his offer since she has "a prior commitment of very long standing". She opens the jewelry box, pins on the SP Chief starburst pin and prepares to accept her new posting as Chief of the SP detachment on Mars.

Comments:
This is the story of how Gim Allon became Colossal Boy, but he doesn't tell the story himself; it comes through the perspective of his ex-girlfriend Gigi.

Gim seems to be a happy guy who just goes with the flow. No agonizing about not becoming an SP Officer - and he clearly wasn't interested in Dad's offer to pull strings to get him a good position with the Fleet. (Too much discipline?) He does like Mom's suggestion to check out those wacky kids in the Legion, however. We get a glimpse of him meeting Reep Daggle and their early friendship as they join the Legion together.

It's Gigi's story too, although we don't learn much about her background, nothing about her family, why she joined the Science Police. I did get a good sense of her ambition and drive, however. She's the more interested in a good post-Academy position, she's the one who wants to pursue the thief and analyzes how the he might behave. Although she claimed to be crying inside when Gim got into the Legion and they split up, she took it all as matter-of-fact: she wanted to go one way and he went another, so what's the point of remaining together.

It's a minor point, but Gigi's hair was coloured red and was long and straight - confusing! At first glance, I thought she was Shvaughn.

The thief in the story isn't named, but his youth and red hair made me think of a young Mekt Ranzz.

I've wondered why we don't see super-powered SP officers; this story explains that it's their policy to avoid super-powered recruits, except for the occasional Titanian, because super-powers are "too confusing". Doesn't make sense to me, but it explains the characters we've seen in the stories.

I'm not a big fan of Lightle's cover, although it's a cute touch to have Gigi standing on her toes even when Gim is normal height - and they sepia-coloured faces in the background do look like it's a pretty steamy romance. The six Legionnaires looking up at them seem out of place, though. In the story, Gigi says the Legion was only seven members when Gim joined, so who's missing here? It can't be Kid Quantum, since he won't be written into the backstory until 5YL, and according to the membership list here, Invisible Kid joined after Gim & Cham.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970789 05/09/19 04:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Offline
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
I haven't read the issue yet (and don't know if I'll have time), but I popped in to read Cramey's review. What stands out is the ending, which seems to write Gigi out as a frequent supporting character. (I don't recall if this happens.) A promotion to a new post on Mars would seem to remove her from direct contact with the Legion except on special cases. It's interesting that this is Gim's story but she's the one who changes.

Not only were there Titanian sci cops, but there was also at least one Braalian (back in LSH 297, the Cos spotight issue). The policy of avoiding powered recruits sounds like it changed to fit the needs of the story, though the policy could also have been modified over time. As more super-powered criminals appeared, it would only make sense to have powered officers in case the Legionnaires were not available. Plus, I get the feeling Zendak was tired of the Legion upstaging his officers at every turn.

The exact order of membership changed with re-tellings, but, in the 1986 Mayfair sourcebook, Levitz lists the order of joining as Cos, Imra, Garth, Lu, Tinya, Reep, Gim, and Lyle. Perhaps Lyle is the "seventh" member, or perhaps Gigi was mistaken.


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970794 05/09/19 06:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648
Trap Timer
Offline
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,648
I remember thinking at one point that it was really weird reading Levitz write about GiGi's relationships when you consider the fact that she is named after his wife.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970813 05/10/19 06:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Offline
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
I wouldn't read too much into it. A lot of characters start off based on somebody and then develop fictional lives of their own.


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970818 05/10/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
I read an interview with Levitz a while back in which he described moving into a new house with wonderful bookshelves for his comics and his wife getting a new kitchen. A strange image of Gigi Cusimano in a kitchen came to my head - she doesn't seem like a cooking kind of person.

She does return towards the end of the Baxter series.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #970819 05/10/19 01:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Baxter 39 is decidedly an odd duck of an issue.

While I think the twist ending is cool, it's odd that the story would be from GiGi's point of view yet not be about her. I like Gim, but the issue feels lopsided because of Levitz's odd choice. Perhaps it would have worked better if it had been from Gim's point of view, and GiGi's own story had been told in a backup? shrug

One thing for sure -- Curt Swan really seems to be enjoying himself. And I have to wonder if Swan based GiGi (or at least her short & sassy hairdo) on celeb skater Dorothy Hammill during the peak of her fame, about a decade before this issue was produced.

And I actually like the cover. I think the sepia vs candy-color contrast works beautifully -- the former represents young adulthood and loss of the bright, simple outlook of childhood and early adolescence; the latter reminds us why so many people try to hold on to the best things about that more innocent, less self-conscious part of the life cycle.

Ummm...6 out of 10 Taryns, then.

CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #971087 05/16/19 05:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
LSH Annual #3 (1987) "There's no Substitute for the Real Thing" by Paul Levitz, art by Greg LaRocque & Mike DeCarlo, colors by Carl Gafford, letters by John Costanza

[Linked Image]

Rokk and Lydda enjoy a vacation on Kathoon. She wants him to return to the Legion, with her; he wants to study the effects of the Time Trapper's machinations.

On Earth, Academy students, overseen by Bouncing Boy, deal with a blockage in the Nile Irrigation System.

Kathoon is losing power. An SP Officer asks Cos & Lydda to investigate. Cos traces disturbances in the magnetic field to a lab and see a Dominator enter; Cos signals the Legion for help. However, all the Legionnaires are away (serving as honor guard on Weber's World for a Dominator-U.P. treaty signing) and Bouncing Boy is watching the Monitor Board, accompanied by Myg and Comet Queen. He receives Rokk's signal and decides to go to Kathoon himself, with the students.

The Dominators have developed a weapon to destroy Weber's World and are waiting for it to come into position. The heroes outside observe a test of the weapon; Cos decides they must deal with it, inexperienced as the students may be.

On Weber's World, Relnic frets over his actions while under Universo's control The Dominator legation arrives.

The heroes attack the Dominators' lab but are sucked into a whirlpool. The head of the lab reports to his superior that the device can be repaired; the superior intends to kill the peace party o nWeber's World and begin a war with the U.P.

Inside the whirlpool, Cos and the others find themselves in a strange dimension; Cos recalls that the Dominators used an "underdimension" as a spatial shortcut when the Legion first met them. Myg also recognizes it as the underdimension used by Lythyl. The two of them find a pathway out to different planets and head for the Dominators' homeworld. They come upon a Dominator base in the underdimension; all but Comet Queen are blasted by the Dominators on arrival. She disables some guards and a reviving Myg takes out the others. The Dominator homeworld is aware of their arrival and blasts what they think are the humans, but it's a fake ship held together by Cos. The team attacks the Dominators; Cos manages to bring down the warship headed to attack Earth. Back on Kathoon, Duo Damsel and another team of students have disabled the weapon that was to attack Weber's World.

Epilogue: The peace treaty is signed. Cos calls a meeting of the new Legion of Substitue Heroes, comprised of Bouncing Boy, Duo Damsel, Night Girl, Myg and Comet Queen.

Comments:
If you like action scenes, you'd probably enjoy this issue more than I did. Perhaps I'm selling it short, but I found myself just skipping through the fight sequences. Lovely cover, though.

There were interesting bits of background information about Kathoon and the Dominators as well as the underdimension. However, I just couldn't get excited about Rokk and Lydda, even less about Myg and Comet Queen.

The Academy students did perform well; a bit hot-headed and impulsive, as the students tend to be written, but capable. The focus on these two alone, although Lu shows up in a splash page with other students after the fact, might have led me to expect that Myg and Comet Queen would be joining the Legion. (Thankfully, not.) Instead, we get a new Legion of Substitutes, which appears to be an on-call group to help out as needed. Rokk says this group will have "no secrecy, no regular meetings" - I didn't see where the secrecy came from and there's no mention of including the other Academy students. It all seems quite vague and even the title strikes me as a bit of a put-down.

The background story of a Dominion split into two factions - pro-peace and pro-war - winds up with the peace treaty being signed off-panel. We've had peace treaties before and they don't last, which leaves the door open for future Dominator stories.

The link back to the first Dominator story with the passage through the underdimension and another peace treaty was nicely done; it fit in with and was a critical part of the story. Sometimes we just get a few comments about a past mission to link two stories. Given the travel shortcut potential of the underdimension and the evidence that the Dominators have established a base there, I'm surprised that we didn't see it further developed in future Legion stories.

Last edited by Fat Cramer; 05/16/19 05:45 AM.

Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #971089 05/16/19 07:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

LSH Annual #3 (1987) "There's No Substitute For the Real Thing"


Jeez Louise. Is that a self-defeating, self-fulfilling title, or what? lol

At this point, Levitz must have really been feeling that the thrill was gone.

If that was indeed the case, it shows in other ways. I remember when I referenced this story a while ago in Omni's "Re-Imagine a Legion Story" thread, I compared it unfavorably to the similar Earthwar, also written by Levitz. Re-hashing one's own stories is another sign that a creator feels tired and depleted.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
If you like action scenes, you'd probably enjoy this issue more than I did. Perhaps I'm selling it short, but I found myself just skipping through the fight sequences.


I don't think you're selling it short, Cramey. It is wall-to-wall action, which is usually what I think Levitz and LaRocque do best. Here, though, neither creator seems to be in top form. One closeup of an angry Lydda reminds me why LaRocque gets heavily criticized for his faces -- I still think it's the exception rather than the rule, but, ye gods, she looks hideous there.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Lovely cover, though.


Agreed 100 percent! This issue marks the beginning of a brief string of covers by Ken Steacy, in rotation for a while with Steve Lightle. In many ways, Steacy is the inverse of Lightle -- heavy stylized and angular, often downright painterly. I'm sure Steacy is not to everyone's taste, but I've always been a fan. His sense of color is one of the best in the whole history of comics (put it this way -- he's one of the few people to have colored over Steve Rude's art (in the Space Ghost special published by Comico) and done The Rude Dude justice!)

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
There were interesting bits of background information about Kathoon and the Dominators as well as the underdimension. However, I just couldn't get excited about Rokk and Lydda, even less about Myg and Comet Queen.


I mostly agree here. My antipathy toward Rokk, Lydda, and Comet Queen has been well-documented in these forums. Myg, though, I think he potential -- the problem was that he was much more Lightle's creation than Levitz's, so without Lightle around, he quickly devolved into a cypher (Lightle wanted him to have a lot more attitude than Levitz ever gave him.)

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The Academy students did perform well; a bit hot-headed and impulsive, as the students tend to be written, but capable. The focus on these two alone, although Lu shows up in a splash page with other students after the fact, might have led me to expect that Myg and Comet Queen would be joining the Legion. (Thankfully, not.) Instead, we get a new Legion of Substitutes, which appears to be an on-call group to help out as needed. Rokk says this group will have "no secrecy, no regular meetings" - I didn't see where the secrecy came from and there's no mention of including the other Academy students. It all seems quite vague and even the title strikes me as a bit of a put-down.


Yeppers. At least that aforementioned splash page is, in my opinion, quite impressive, showing how good LaRocque can be when he's fully committed. Shame that it all became yet another loose end of the Baxter era.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The background story of a Dominion split into two factions - pro-peace and pro-war - winds up with the peace treaty being signed off-panel. We've had peace treaties before and they don't last, which leaves the door open for future Dominator stories.


Does it ever! wink Seriously, between 5YL and the DCU event Invasion, they'd soon go on to be way overused. In my opinion.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The link back to the first Dominator story with the passage through the underdimension and another peace treaty was nicely done; it fit in with and was a critical part of the story. Sometimes we just get a few comments about a past mission to link two stories. Given the travel shortcut potential of the underdimension and the evidence that the Dominators have established a base there, I'm surprised that we didn't see it further developed in future Legion stories.


Loose ends, so many loose ends! sigh

Four out of Ten Taryns: CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #971350 05/21/19 06:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
LSH Baxter #40, "What Starfinger Touches..."

Paul Levitz, script - Greg LaRocque, pencils (pgs. 1-5, 11-13, 17-27?) - Dan Jurgens, pencils (pgs. 6-10, 14-16?) - Mike DeCarlo, inks - Arne Starr, ink assist - John Costanza, letters - Carl Gafford, colors - Karen Berger, editor

PLOT: While one team of Legionnaires (Nura, Brin, Jan, and "Special Guest Star" Thom) thwart an attack on Earth which Nura had foreseen in a dream, another team (Brek, Mysa, Lar, Dawny) handles a routine mission to Tharr which nevertheless tests Mysa's endurance.

Later, Starfinger, who was behind the opening attack, launches a second attack on Earth, this one a brazen assault on Legion Headquarters! During the Legion's counter-attack, Sensor Girl must restrain Wildfire from destroying the villain's super-weapon, and we get the first hint that Wildfire cannot hold his new form together without having Quislet in proximity. Instead, Sensor Girl guides Sun Boy on how to destroy the weapon without harming the Legionnaires or the surface of the Earth. Starfinger petulantly vows revenge on the Legion.

THOUGHTS: As with the previous Starfinger issue (Baxter #29,) this is one I had not been looking forward to, yet enjoyed more than I expected. Also once again, I enjoyed it in spite of Starfinger. Jeez Louise, what a dorky lame-o villain (and what a waste of a retro-cool costume!)

LaRocque is spelled on some pages by Dan Jurgens, but DeCarlo's inking style is so overwhelming that it's hard to tell them apart. After some thought, I now speculate that Jurgens only drew the sequences set on Brek's homeworld Tharr. Jurgens was younger and somewhat less seasoned than LaRocque, and his style hadn't yet evolved into the distinctive look which, in tandem with inker Brett Breeding, would define the 90s Superman. Overall, though, the art in this issue is more than satisfying.

What keeps it from being more than merely readable is yet another humdrum, by-the-numbers story from Levitz. Except for the scenes with Nura (where Thom, in my opinion, comes off like a jerk with misconceptions of "tough love," and Laurel Kent drops a clunker of a hint that she is not who she appears to be,) there's not much that really sticks in the mind. I do think LaRocque does a good job with the opening 5-page action sequence, and while I'm sure some readers dislike Carl Gafford's choice of a bright lemon-yellow for the giant attack ship, I like it precisely because it's so comic-booky. I also kind of like Sensor Girl's righteous scorn towards Starfinger near the end, although it also makes me wish that SG were Kara and not Projectra.

Just like a lot of previous Baxter issues, it's a garish and sugary confection, completely lacking in nutritional value. And, just as many times before, I like it enough for what it is to give it a decent grade.

7 out of 10 Taryns: CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen CalorieQueen


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Ann Hebistand #971557 05/26/19 10:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
OP Offline
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Originally Posted by Ann Hebistand
Also once again, I enjoyed it in spite of Starfinger. Jeez Louise, what a dorky lame-o villain (and what a waste of a retro-cool costume!)


The original Starfinger looked so classic 1950s pulp, this guy looks 1980s disco, which is pretty cool. And like disco, all looks, little substance (in this issue). He's launched multiple threats against the Legion, all of which have been foiled. He behaves like a toddler in a tantrum.

Quote
LaRocque is spelled on some pages by Dan Jurgens, but DeCarlo's inking style is so overwhelming that it's hard to tell them apart. After some thought, I now speculate that Jurgens only drew the sequences set on Brek's homeworld Tharr. Jurgens was younger and somewhat less seasoned than LaRocque, and his style hadn't yet evolved into the distinctive look which, in tandem with inker Brett Breeding, would define the 90s Superman. Overall, though, the art in this issue is more than satisfying.


Nura looked especially great in this issue. The cover was also remarkable, although it was considerably more ominous than the story turned out to be.

Quote
What keeps it from being more than merely readable is yet another humdrum, by-the-numbers story from Levitz. Except for the scenes with Nura (where Thom, in my opinion, comes off like a jerk with misconceptions of "tough love," and Laurel Kent drops a clunker of a hint that she is not who she appears to be,) there's not much that really sticks in the mind. I do think LaRocque does a good job with the opening 5-page action sequence, and while I'm sure some readers dislike Carl Gafford's choice of a bright lemon-yellow for the giant attack ship, I like it precisely because it's so comic-booky. I also kind of like Sensor Girl's righteous scorn towards Starfinger near the end, although it also makes me wish that SG were Kara and not Projectra.


I really enjoyed the Nura scenes, very character-heavy. I'll forgive Thom for his behaviour, since he's acting from a position of hurt and defensiveness, IMO, but maybe also a little bit of revenge for having to play second fiddle to Nura's Legion leadership. Brin, however, was incredibly snarky, an attitude which came out of nowhere, as far as I remember. Dirk was also heartless telling Nura that he bet she couldn't hold on to Thom. It's a trope that women are nasty to other women over men, looks, etc. so I found it interesting - and a little disappointing - that Nura lashed out Dirk's callous comment by snarking about Laurel.

I also enjoyed the scenes from Tharr for the information they supplied about that planet. Mysa wasn't quite up to the job in this case, not able to keep her spell strong enough to withstand the heat. Perhaps she was worn out from maintaining her life-support spell on Hykraius - or maybe it's portending something for her, don't remember what's ahead.

Admirably succinct summary, Ann!


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 23
Fat Cramer #971581 05/26/19 05:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
Offline
Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Originally Posted by Cramey
The original Starfinger looked so classic 1950s pulp, this guy looks 1980s disco, which is pretty cool.


LOL Indeed! Gloriously garish! nod

Originally Posted by Cramey
And like disco, all looks, little substance (in this issue). He's launched multiple threats against the Legion, all of which have been foiled. He behaves like a toddler in a tantrum.


Beautifully put. Reminds me of when Vril Dox did the same thing in an early issue of L.E.G.I.O.N., while no other characters were around to notice. There, it was genuinely disturbing and powerful to see that such high intellect and Machiavellian cool masked an emotional infant in the body of an adult. Starfinger, though, he's just obnoxious.

Originally Posted by Cramey
I really enjoyed the Nura scenes, very character-heavy. I'll forgive Thom for his behaviour, since he's acting from a position of hurt and defensiveness, IMO, but maybe also a little bit of revenge for having to play second fiddle to Nura's Legion leadership. Brin, however, was incredibly snarky, an attitude which came out of nowhere, as far as I remember. Dirk was also heartless telling Nura that he bet she couldn't hold on to Thom. It's a trope that women are nasty to other women over men, looks, etc. so I found it interesting - and a little disappointing - that Nura lashed out Dirk's callous comment by snarking about Laurel.


Good points about Thom and Brin. Regarding the latter's out-of-character attitude, it almost appears as though Levitz just randomly selected any available male Legionnaire to deliver that cheap bit of snark.

As for Nura's verbal swipe at Laurel, I share your disappointment. Though I also wonder if maybe Levitz was desperately looking for some way, any way, to do foreshadowing about Laurel? Whatever the reasons, the end result came off unconvincing, clumsy and heavy-handed. Why it would have been so important to Levitz is beyond me...unless it was editorially mandated because the higher-ups wanted some Millennium hype? shrug

Originally Posted by Cramey
Admirably succinct summary, Ann!


Thank you! I'd been worried I left out too much. Now I feel more confident about my next review. smile


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Forum Statistics
Forums14
Topics21,066
Posts1,050,241
Legionnaires1,731
Most Online53,886
Jan 7th, 2024
Newest Legionnaires
Boy Kid Lad, Anonymous Girl, Mimi, max kord, Duke
1,731 Registered Legionnaires
Today's Birthdays
ActorLad
Random Holo-Vids
Who's Who in the LMBP
Arm Fall Off Boy
Arm Fall Off Boy
North Carolina
Posts: 2,735
Joined: February 2008
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5