Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Legionnaires 3 & Cosmic Boy

Agreed. Personally, I find *so many* of Giffen's views problematic, that they've become even more of an obstacle to me appreciating his work than his ugly faces.

I thought the Legionnaires 3 miniseries was okay... there were some weak points in #2. I didn't like Lightning Lad telling Rond Vidar off - and Cos having chameleon powers. The art was fine, though.... what really stunned me was the final issue. Legionnaires 3 #4 seems separate from the rest... changing the focus to Lightning Lad and really going to town with Garth & the Trapper. That final issue is outstanding.

Hmm... I have plenty of TMK characterizations I'm not particularly fond of, but I like a lot of what they did with Rokk. I'm pretty willing to just throw out some of his jerkier portrayals in 70s stories as aberrations that don't really fit in with the overall thrust of the character, especially as "toxic masculinity" seemed to be the default characterization for most of the guys on the team during that era.

I think I can see where you're coming from, EDE -- there are, after all, plenty of Hall of Shame moments for male Legionnaires in the Bronze Age (Garth shoving aside everyone he encounters, Val hitting Projectra.) That said, I think that it's dangerous to call Rokk's worst actions "aberrations" (and among them I also include his nearly-murderous vengeance rampage during the Levitz/Giffen 80s) because that gives creators too much leeway to sweep things under the carpet.

And that, I believe, is exactly what TMK did with Rokk.

If TMK had *at least acknowledged* Rokk's past sins *along with* his strengths as a leader, *then* it would have made him a fully rounded character. Instead, he ended up almost as much of a Gary Stu as TMK's Jo Nah. I can't get inside the heads of any of those three creators to be able to understand *why* they did what they did, but I find it deeply irresponsible, *especially* because they've claimed to respect continuity and love the Legion mythos. That, to me, is not respect and love, it's *selective favoritism.*

I didn't dislike the portrayal of Rokk Krinn as the heart of the Legion in 5YL; it was well done but it just seemed to come out of nowhere. He hadn't struck me that way all through the Baxter series, when he even quit the team. Saturn Girl might just have well have been chosen and it was Cham who took the steps to get the team back together. Then Levitz picked up this "Krinn as essential to the Legion" theme in the last version and focused on how he sacrificed his personal life for the Legion (and for Imra and Garth's happiness).

A few more thoughts on Rokk, just for the heck of it:

It's true that his role as the "rock" of the team was hardly alluded to before 5YL, but I think there were hints in previous stories that other writers expanded on. To wit:

--Someone on FB recently posted a panel from Adventure 330 in which Cosmic Boy expels Mon-El from the team after the latter has been framed by Dynamo Boy. What's significant is that it's Cos who does the expelling, even though Saturn Girl was leader at the time. This suggests that Cos still held a position of authority within the team.

--In Superboy 173, Cosmic Boy remains on duty while the rest of the Legion is elsewhere. This idea of a senior Legionnaire or leader staying behind would be repeated by Mon-El (accompanied by Shadow Lass) during Chuck and Lu's wedding.

--In S/LSH 235, Rokk is the only Legionnaire who protests the tortuous brainwashing to which Superboy is subjected. While it could be that Rokk merely knew Superboy the longest, it also seems like something a leader would do. It takes courage to go it alone.

Granted, these are random examples from random stories--and anybody can use any random example to suggest anything. But leaders don't have to be up front all the time. Sometimes, the best leaders are those who lead quietly and rise to the occasion when the situation demands it. Rokk was the Legion's leader for its first two years and, while it may seem that he peaked early, he could just be one of those guys who doesn't need to draw attention to himself. (He's the anti-Dirk.) A rock is something most people take for granted yet provides the unyielding hardness necessary for structure, civilization, and security.

Just a thought.

Many a Rokk has feet of clay.

I have fond memories of Legionnaires 3, despite its sitcom-y elements which, even at the time, some fans found exasperating. I've always thought Colon didn't get enough credit for his work. He was able to infuse it with some Moebius-like flourishes (dramatic vistas of wastelands, the feel of the faces and the way he did textures), but kept the feeling of motion and speed that I've often found lacking in a lot of famous European stuff.

I've always admired Imra's devotion to both heroism and her kids, even though I knew even then that I'd never have kids if I could help it.

I think one of the reasons I threw up my hands years later upon hearing of the retcon of Garth really being Proty is that it pretty much renders this whole story impossible. The Trapper knew everything about Garth's life. Logically speaking, he'd then have to have known that Garth wasn't even Garth anymore.

Am I remembering correctly that when Garth is forced to hallucinate that even his teammates despise him, Brainiac 5 is the only who sympathizes, because of his own mental problems? Those are the kind of touches that were like catnip to me when Levitz was at his best.

I have never read Cosmic Boy's solo stories.

You remember that scene with Garth's hallucinations correctly. While the taunting Legionnaires must have been a hallucination (because Legionnaires are good guys!), I wonder if Brainy might indeed have offered a word of support. Or perhaps Garth just felt a kinship with the crazy green guy when he was falling apart.

The problem with the Trapper is that he/it can change history, as evidenced by the pocket universe Superboy, so he could have made Garth into Proty or Proty into Garth (whatever) at some future point. It's a power that's a bit too convenient for clearing up continuity problems.

Cramer, I think with this post you are officially more engaged in rehabbing Legion continuity than anyone on DC's paid staff in the last forty years.

Cleome, LOL

Cramey really is awesome, though!