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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961641 10/17/18 06:13 PM
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Oh, yeah, I agree completely that this is basically Paul using Crisis as an excuse to bring back a character from one of his own earliest Legion stories. I'm pretty sure no one other than PL has ever used the Infinite Man for anything however...

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961690 10/18/18 07:10 AM
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Comments:

Originally Posted by Cramer
It was like a break in a water pipe getting plugged. Rond and Brainy freak out, the other Legionnaires are curious or puzzled, but there's no sense of any widespread panic or concern.


It seems that everyone forgot the events and then forgot the panic of disjointed memories when they forgot the connections around the events too. But it does lessen that wider tension.


Originally Posted by Cramer
The 20th century Crisis took 12 issues; the Legion version takes about one and a half. Could this issue be read as a stand-alone, without having followed the Crisis series? I think it could be, but it would lose a lot of the impact - the idea that the Crisis is rolling through the universe and through time.


It also seems at odds within events of the Crisis book too. They’re forgetting things too soon in the Crisis plot, so it might be as well to be read more as a stand alone.


Originally Posted by Cramer
I'd forgotten Mysa's role here and it helps to explain why she would break with the Legion later over the treatment of Rugarth.


Good point. That feeds in really well to later events.

Originally Posted by Cramer
We're reminded again that Jacques doesn't fully control his powers. I'd be expecting this to be a set-up for a graceful exit.


It could have fed into a longer arc concerning his sister, and her eventual membership in the team.

Originally Posted by Cramer
It begins with Rond realizing that events have been happening that no one remembers (shades of Anti-Lad!)


If Supergirl or Kid Psycho had been wearing such cool shades, they would never have been bumped off. smile

Originally Posted by HWW
Good teams don't care who gets the credit or who comes up with the final plan; everyone contributes.


And in good teams, [i[everyone[/i] should contribute to releasing giant beings with deadly cosmic powers…no…wait… smile

Originally Posted by HWW
…but, for Brainy--whose brain is the source of his power and identity--loss of control would be especially frightening.


Brainy’s reaction in the Universo saga is what I think of when I see him like this.

Originally Posted by HWW
The story ends without the initial problem being resolved, but I'm fine with that. It does resolve the Infinite Man/Jaxon Rugarth story--not that anyone was asking for such a resolution after all this time. But our heroes do have a decisive victory for a change.


The Legionnaires return to HQ and Jan, as leader, is keen to give credit where its due…

Jan: I’m glad you thought of Mysa as being able to find the solution, Brainy.
Querl: It seemed the obvious choice considering your idea regarding Jacques.
Jan: Even then, it was touch and go. We might have lost had Ryssa not frozen Rugarth’s mind.
Querl: Yes Ryssa. You have been invaluable since joining us.
Ryssa: A simple task for one of my station.

Ryssa smiles disarmingly, as Brainy wonders when exactly Ryssa joined the Legion. It’s not something he dwells on as the crimson waves of Crisis sweep once more over the Time Institute and beyond.

Originally Posted by HWW
Top 25 of October 15, 1985


With the exception of Iron Man…actually.. I think at the time the next one I read was over a year after #200… I wouldn’t have read any of the Marvel ones listed. I picked up odd issues of Squad Supreme later on, having heard a lot about it (and having seen the Official Handbook) before reading it all.

Originally Posted by Paladin
That's fair enough. But I doubt that Paul himself had any desire to revisit Douglas, even if it would have served the story. I'm sure, however, that he'd had it in the back of his mind to revisit the Infinite Man at some point since he'd created the character years before and left his story unresolved. In a preface to whatever hardcover introduced the IM, Paul lists him as one of his significant character contributions to Legion lore. Whether fans feel the same is debatable, but Paul clearly had some fondness for him.


I’d agree with this regarding Douglas. I look on the Infinite Man as a Trapper upgrade, prior to the Trapper becoming a more cosmic avatar figure. Rugarth’s existence might have resulted in part in that line of thinking for the Trapper. Moving away form the purple cloak and its pulp leanings would have been considered a plus. Not to mention Rugarth seemed a little more direct in bringing agents into combat the team. No cackling behind an iron curtain for him.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961700 10/18/18 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by thoth
Originally Posted by HWW
Top 25 of October 15, 1985


With the exception of Iron Man…actually.. I think at the time the next one I read was over a year after #200… I wouldn’t have read any of the Marvel ones listed. I picked up odd issues of Squad Supreme later on, having heard a lot about it (and having seen the Official Handbook) before reading it all.


Marvel was one quarter of my childhood; DC was another quarter. Even at this stage, they still were pretty much half and half of my comics reading. However, in the next week's chart, Miracleman from Eclipse Comics debuted at No. 1, signaling the beginning of a major transition: Indies would become more prominent and Marvel would start to wane.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961706 10/18/18 02:12 PM
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I thought that you'd been doing pretty well on the Indy front already with Nexus, Dalgoda, normal man, Zot! and the Eagle Comics.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961710 10/18/18 04:29 PM
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I was, but they would become more prominent as time went on.

Looking at the last few lists, I'm struck by how Nexus is the only real indie mainstay. Zot! and Dalgoda had ended, though temporarily. (Zot! would return as a black and white title, running from issues # 11-38; Dalgoda was concluded in a four-issue mini-series called Flesh & Bones.) I tried a few others here and there, but nothing really clicked. I think I was so used to Marvel and DC super-heroes being the dominant genre of comics that I wasn't really receptive anything else. So myopic was I that I wrote an article called "How to Improve the Alternate Comics' Success," which was published in Comics Buyer's Guide in 1986; my basic argument was that the indies should be more like Marvel and DC. In CBG's letter column, "Oh, So?" well-known writers such as John Ostrander (who at the time was writing Grimjack) and Jan Strnad (Dalgoda) responded by pointing out the error in my thinking: They weren't out to be like Marvel and DC; they wanted to do something unique and original, to add "spice" to the comics industry, as Ostrander put it.

I gradually began to see their point of view, and I think it was Miracleman that pushed me more in that direction. Though ostensibly a super-hero title, it was really a horror story. It helped me to open up to what super-heroes and/or comics could be. Within the next few years, I was reading Airboy, The American (Dark Horse), Whisper, and other things that could barely be described as super-hero or which offered challenging takes on the genre.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961760 10/19/18 04:36 PM
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I hadn't thought of Miracleman as a horror story, so much as a fairly straight extrapolation of the super-genre. Horrific moments, sure, but firmly framed in the world of capes. I'll give that some thought, thanks HWW.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961768 10/19/18 06:01 PM
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I have to admit that when it comes to the divisions between genres, I'm on uncertain ground. I just watched Season 2, Episode 8 of "Stranger Things" on Netflix. It is a horror story? Yes. It is a retro '80s story? Yes. Is it a story about young heroes teaming up against impossible odds? Most definitely. The best stories, in my opinion, defy genre but combine elements of several different things to create something unique. Miracleman, Zot! and the Legion at its best did this.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Eryk Davis Ester #961781 10/20/18 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
Oh, yeah, I agree completely that this is basically Paul using Crisis as an excuse to bring back a character from one of his own earliest Legion stories. I'm pretty sure no one other than PL has ever used the Infinite Man for anything however...


He was used in Justice League United (writer Jeff Lemire), along with the Legion and that awful blue baby from Levitz's Legion story - maybe it was Levitz's suggestion.

I hadn't thought of Douglas Noland - that would have been an interesting choice for this Crisis tie-in, although it would have required dumping Douglas back into mental instability. Rugarth freed of Infinite Man was a more positive solution.

Thanks thoth for outlining all the issue mismatches. At this point, who remembers the pre-Crisis events - Brainy, Rond and Chronarch?

BTW, I noticed another hand on the shoulder which thoth had mentioned for the previous issue. This time it's Dirk grabbing Thom and Thom reacting badly. Looks like it is a Levitz thing.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961806 10/20/18 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
He was used in Justice League United (writer Jeff Lemire), along with the Legion and that awful blue baby from Levitz's Legion story - maybe it was Levitz's suggestion.


Thanks for the reminder of that one. I had wiped it from memory.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
At this point, who remembers the pre-Crisis events - Brainy, Rond and Chronarch?


Those three in the story, and presumably others close to the Time Beacon in the institute. The memory differences are clearer for the Legion as they were involved in the Crisis. Dave on reception in the institute is unable to tell the difference between his pre Crisis synthi-caf and his post Crisis synthi-caf.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
BTW, I noticed another hand on the shoulder which thoth had mentioned for the previous issue. This time it's Dirk grabbing Thom and Thom reacting badly. Looks like it is a Levitz thing.


Wolfman: C'mon Paul! Let's go! The engines running and there are two campuses I want to pick up college girls from on our way to the convention! It's all research for Terry's character of course!
Levitz: None of them... will touch my...shoulder...will they...?
Wolman (in full Terry Long mode): They'll only want your shoulder to cry on, once Terry here breaks their hearts...


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961853 10/21/18 04:16 PM
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Hey, Re-Readers,

I've been trying for days to come up with something to say about Baxter Legion 18, and all I've got it is, "How awesomely drawn are pages 11-12, the ones with Tellus and Validus? Take THAT, LaRocque haters!"

As I alluded to in my review of Baxter Legion 17, the next several issues could, in theory, be interchangeably reviewed by me using this handy form:

"I find a good amount of LaRocque's art in _____ scrumptious, especially ______ and ______! Shame that inker Larry Mahlstedt seems to be phoning it in on at least half the pages, especially ________ and _____. And even greater shame that Levitz's writing is so lazy and sloppy *yet again,* especially ______ and ________. I mean, can you *believe* Karen Berger didn't flag down Levitz for ______ and _______ and _______ and _________? In summary, this latest heaping helping of 100% pure eye-candy once again proves to be delicious, but not nutritious."

So I'll probably be only chiming in from time to time for a while, until we reach the Legion vs. Sarya's New Fatal Five battle in 25-26. I will *definitely* do full reviews of those.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #961854 10/21/18 04:35 PM
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Ooh! Mad Libs. wink


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
He Who Wanders #961965 10/23/18 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Ooh! Mad Libs. wink


HA HA HA HA lol Cheers, my friend! cheers


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962046 10/24/18 02:58 AM
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LSH #19"The Deathworld of Tyr!" or "To Control a World" by Paul Levitz, art by Greg LaRocque & Larry Mahlstadt, colors by Carl Gafford, letters by Augustin Mas

[Linked Image]

On Manna-V, Legionnaires are protecting agricultural crops from giant waves when Tinya suddenly disappears, followed by Jo. Gim calls the HQ for help; Brin downplays the situation but Blok calls Jan. Jan considers it might be the work of Zymyr or someone with a particular grudge against Jo and Tinya. Then Jan starts to disappear.

At SP headquarters, an angry Chief Zendak berates his force for lack of progress on the matter of the brainwashed officers.

Legionnaires meet to discuss the disappearance of five Legionnaires; in addition to Jo, Tinya and Jan, Violet and Cham are missing. Lar points out that these same five vanished before and the Legion was unable to find them. Brek asks that the situation be explained to the new members. Sensor Girl offers help, but is interrupted by the appearance of a Controller, who says he took the five in order to complete a task that they presumptiously interrupted.

The Controller has taken the five to the edge of their galaxy and explains that by destroying the Limbo world, they have allowed the arrival of Tyrraz, a planet dedicated to destroying other worlds. The Sun-Eater was being constructed to destroy Tyrraz; when the Legionnaires destroyed it, this Controller was punished and relieved of much of his power - so he needs the help of the Legionnaires and considers it their duty to right the wrong they have caused.

At HQ, Mysa uses a spell to detect the lost Legionnaires, but passes out as the Controller's power overwhelms her. Brainy rebuffs a comforting word from Tasmia. Lar and Sensor Girl fail to detect the missing team mates. Wildfire complains that they don't know what Sensor Girl's powers are and flies off with Dawnstar to search; Lar joins them. Brainy watches Sensor Girl and obsesses over the mystery of her powers and her identity.

As the Legionnaires attack Tyrraz, a miniature Violet is knocked unconscious; Tinya catches her. A soldier appears and demands to take Tinya to his captain, or he'll kill her. If she phases, she loses Violet but Jo arrives in the nick of time and rescues them. The soldier alerts his captain to fire on the intruders. On the asteroid, the Controller tells Jan that this destructive world would have been destroyed, but for the Legionnaires. Jan responds that he would wreck the Sun-Eater again, since no one has the right to destroy an inhabited world. The Controller asks what Jan will do when Tyrraz reaches one of this galaxy's inhabited worlds.

Comments:

This is a good continuation and melding of a stories from long ago (the first Tyr appearance in Superboy #197 & #199) and not so long ago (the Limbo planet destruction in LSH #8). Not that anyone was asking for a return of Tyr, but the idea that the Controller's Sun-Eater was designed for a benign purpose may have lingered in more recent memories.

Of the five Legionnaires taken by the Controller to fix the mess they created (a very nice lesson on consequences), only Cham was actively involved in the original Tyr story - he impersonated Tyr. So you'd think we'd get a flashback explanation from him when he hears the words "Tyrraz" and "destruction", but no panel time is wasted on that. (Of course, it's only when we see the guard attack Violet and Tinya that it's confirmed to be the same race as Tyr.) In a similar vein, Brek asks for the new Legionnaires what the original disappearance was about, but we don't get a full-page summary of that story. Skipping the backstories makes for a tighter tale, while not sacrificing anything the reader needs to know.

I like the idea that the super-powerful Controller got demoted/depowered for the Sun-Eater screw-up. Consequences again - and he's going after the brats he blames for it.

Brin's reaction to news of the disappearance is curious; I'm not sure what's intended here. He was mind-controlled by Tyr in the original story - is his nonchalance an effect of that? Could he somehow sense that Tyr is involved? Or is he just on a happy-go-lucky high now that he's inherited billions of credits?

That Brin was mind-controlled by Tyr raises the possiblity (albeit remote) that the brainwashed SP officers may have come under Tyr's influence as well.

Brainy teeters on the edge of madness - you just feel the instability, as he does himself, as he begins to obsess over Sensor Girl. Ex-girlfriend Tasmia tries to offer a comforting word but is rebuffed. I wonder just how close those two were/are. He's been weeping about his hopeless love for Kara, so perhaps he doesn't want to be reminded of a little fling with Tasmia.

Lar is particularly anxious to find the missing Legionnaires and seeks action over talk. I get the sense that the responsibility of his considerable powers weighs on him. Tasmia's hand on his arm suggests she's concerned he's becoming overwrought during the meeting. Brainy's in a similar position: he's expected to come up with answers, yet he doesn't have any in this case.

Jan is growing into his leadership nicely; he calmly assesses the news of Jo and Tinya's disappearance before he himself is taken and he's the one who defends the destruction of the Limbo planet to the Controller. He's also the quickest to understand the situation once the Controller has seized the five.

This looks like a version of the Trolley Problem - the Legionnaires have to choose between destroying Tyrraz (and thereby killing sentients) or opposing the Controller's order and letting Tyrraz destory other planets. It's a good way to end the issue, leaving one curious as to how they'll resolve the problem.

I'm not much of one to comment on the art, but the scenes with the Controller addressing the Legionnaires in their HQ are particularly striking.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962073 10/24/18 11:01 AM
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LoSH v3 19

LaRocque’s art brings us some good costumes, great hair and some nice movement in the action sequences. The holo of Gim at the meeting table is a nice touch, and would be used considerably later on. Mahstedt and Gafford assist admirably on this issue, adding to LaRocque’s good points, and helping out on the weaker ones.

The story continues from the Lost Legionnaires story at the end of the opening arc on Orando. There, they prevented the creation of a Sun Eater. Now they must confront the menace that the Sun Eater was being created to destroy.

Karen Berger was probably quite pleased with this one. It picks up on an earlier story containing a big Legion threat and increases the stakes.

The inclusion of the SP investigation is a little pointless, as far as the rest of the story goes, and I’d have preferred a Vi & Cham scene instead. But later I’d be moaning that the investigation plot wasn’t getting any attention. The solution would have been to have Vi/Cham helping out on that investigation when they disappeared combining both plots.

In summary, it’s starts off with action on a lesser mission and grows in scope from there, while continuing a couple of in-team subplots. It also has a clear test of the Legion’s code at the end. While I was indifferent to the previous story, despite it looking fine on paper, I enjoyed this one more than I remembered doing on previous reads.

We get a nice opening where the Legion are helping in a rescue effort. Jo struts his stuff, while Gim lets us know that this is his favourite type of mission. I don’t think the locals are thrilled about things though. Back at HQ, Brin figures out why he and Blok are on monitor duty when Jan is on the base. It’s a shame they’re seen as a bit of comic relief. Not helped by Gim calling Brin dense, when Jo and Tinya vanish.

In a subplot, Zendak is getting his officers to investigate their brainwashed colleagues. President Desai is particularly keen to get results, or at least keep tabs on how things are proceeding, as we’ll see.

We don’t see Cham or Vi’s disappearance, which is a shame. But it’s not lost on anyone at the Legion meeting as to why it’s those five who have been kidnapped.

Levitz gets in a little of Mon El being proactive enough for Shady to want to calm him, which is part of a subplot. As is Sensor Girl announcing that she may be placed to help find the missing. That links through this story, as well as into future ones. The inclusion of Mon-El’s unseen serum issues and the Sensor Girl mystery, makes me look back to Brin’s comments. I think this is an attempt to show him as being strongly intuitive as far as subplots go. He says that their disappearance is nothing to worry about. Very broadly that’s true in that they’ve not been captured by terrible enemies. They’ve been taken to perform a mission, as per a few of the old Adventure stories. This might well be Levitz not giving us a clue to Sensor Girl’s identity, but to the person who’ll “solve” it.

There’s an interesting parallel in both Querl and Lar going through emotional turmoil. For someone considered by some writers to be completely in control, some of Brainy’s colleagues are already worrying about him. But It’s only Shady who’s currently worried about Lar.

Rather than continue with something both cast and reader knows, Levitz simply has the Controller appear and confirm things to them. He returns to the missing and gives the reader a summary of the previous story, while give us a little action as Tyrraz attacks them.

The Controller has had a lot of his power stripped from him, and it appears this will result in his dying. He’s still incredibly powerful. He’s looking to fulfil his mission and in Controller style needs tools to do it, namely the Legion.

Back at HQ, the Legion play “Let’s replace Dawny.” It’s a fun game where everyone pretends to have tracking powers to undermine the person on the team with tracking powers. It’s more fun when it’s finding keys, as Dawny’s powers don’t work so well in an atmosphere.

Mysa, Lar and Sensor Girl all have a go, while Drake and Dawny get ready to leave. Dawny couldn’t track them last time, but seems confident.

What’s surprising, and against comic tradition is that the Controller left masses of distinctive energy in their own meeting room, and none of that is being used to trace him.

Sensor Girl’s attempts to locate the missing are a link to the increasing uncertainty over her powers, as felt by her team mates. She’s also being monitored by a Brainy still distraught over the loss of Kara.

Near Tyrraz, Jan reiterates the Legion code vs killing and is unwilling to take any lives on Tyrraz. The Controller wonders if Jan will feel the same way, as the death world is approaching an inhabited planet.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962074 10/24/18 11:02 AM
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Second Story

Doctor Gym’ll seems to stand in for Brainy in this story, where Jacques has the choice to give up his teleportation power, his invisibility power…or both. We learn that he has studies to return to, but not what they are. He may also quite like a family in the future. He also thinks about the accidental origin he had. We learn that he feels guilty over the death resulting from his powers, even if he was cleared.

While he faces a choice about continuing to be a Legionnaire, he doesn’t question his place with them, which was part of his earlier role. When he interrupts a gang of pirates (sadly, no Organus with them) his instinct and actions make his decision. He keeps his invisibility and remains a Legionnaire.

It’s a small tale that builds on his previous choices. It bucks the trend of ever more powerful heroes. Even here, Jacques doesn’t catch all the crooks himself. He calls in the heavy hitters for that. He has a place in the team, but the team is about more than power players.

It’s always nice to see Chick Patton’s art. It would have been lovely to have a Tales book alternating between Lightle, Shoemaker, Jurgens and Patton art.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962075 10/24/18 11:02 AM
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Li’l thoth in Elsenwhen

Of Legion interest this month is Booster Gold #1 where we clearly see the Legion Flight Ring he’s wearing. It’s a solid opening issue, hinting at his past and setting him up as a commercially driven hero.

Amethyst has a Crisis crossover. The Doctor Fate Lords of Order and Chaos would be appearing across a number of books in the years to come. Here, Amethyst’s origin is added to, making her father a minor Lord of Order. It makes Amy the first Lord of Order in human form. She’s also been blinded by the Crisis and left on her world by a meanie Doctor Fate. Plenty of Bits fodder in this one.

Karate Kid and the Khunds are in Who’s Who #12…as is Kole.

The grave of Kid Psycho appears in Ambush Bug Stocking Stuffer, being checked off a list by Jonni DC, The Continuity Cop. The old rocketship clubhouse also appears as does the current HQ. Tenzil gets some dialogue (but you don’t see him) and Jonni discovers that Supergirl’s (off panel) body is covered in tears of steel. The art and some of the silliness is down to Giffen.

There’s no Legion in the Crisis finale, but the clock has definitely started ticking down to the Superman revamp sans Superboy.

Paul Levitz writes #4 of DC Challenge.

Hal Jordan gets a ring back in GL #197, as Guy Gardner leads a team of villains to Qward. This is very much like an abandoned part of an earlier Crisis plot.

DC Comics #90 gives us a post Criss, but pre revamped Captain Atom. I remember it as a by-the-numbers Kupperberg tale.

The Crisis logo seems to be stuck on Infinity Inc. In #23 we see the Wildcat scenes from a different perspective, meet Solomon Grundy, travel to Northwind’s home and Jade and Brainwave hook up.

It’s the same over on All Star Squadron #54 as Firebrand gathers together an unlikely team GA Supes, Bats and Robin guest, as Thomas would know he couldn’t use them for much longer.

Firestorm battles Typhoon in a similarly unexciting tale. It might be the Kayanana art I don’t take to, although Conway couldn’t be far from moving on after the JLD.

Andy Helfer had taken over as editor and already had big plans for the book. Conway wouldn’t be the writer who would see those come into effect. JLA 247 sees the team investigate their old Happy Harbour HQ.

Aquaman has left the league, but gets a mini-series and the cover of #1 features his impressive new ocean coloured costume. I much preferred this one at the time, although I didn’t actually get the mini for many years.

Catwoman spends a night on the town with Batman in #392. Except they keep getting interrupted by crooks. Selena makes the comment about Bats having a lot of partners for a loner. Something else else that will be feeding into the JLA shortly.

The Omega Men have a Teen Titans crossover, as they face X’Hal! Well, the Titans have about a page or two before the Omega Men face X’Hal. It’s a cheeky crossover presumably used as a sales boost.

The Titans would go off into #17 of their own title where Kory gets married, and it’s not to Nightwing as those little teaser ads said. I wasn’t that keen on them at the time as the two were such a couple. I’m still not convinced.

Elsewhere Stilleta makes a good attempt to attract readers in Hex; The Looker has almost arrived in BatO 30; The Outsiders battle Force of July in Russia (there were a lot of these stories back then from Justice League through Green Lantern to Suicide Squad) in their Baxter title

Li’l thoth got: DC Comics Presents, JLA, Tales of the Titans, Tales of the Legion, Batman, Crisis 12, Who’s Who, All Star Squadron, Crisis.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962207 10/25/18 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cramer
…but the idea that the Controller's Sun-Eater was designed for a benign purpose may have lingered in more recent memories.


Before I forget again, the Controllers use here coincides with their use in Crisis, tying in a lot of the post Crisis history for DC. I wonder if Levitz felt the need to complete the story before Crisis #12. Perhaps setting it later would have allowed him to use some of that new history in the story. Although, he has said he preferred to stay out of the main DC when he could.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Of the five Legionnaires taken by the Controller to fix the mess they created (a very nice lesson on consequences), only Cham was actively involved in the original Tyr story - he impersonated Tyr. So you'd think we'd get a flashback explanation from him when he hears the words "Tyrraz" and "destruction", but no panel time is wasted on that… That Brin was mind-controlled by Tyr raises the possiblity (albeit remote) that the brainwashed SP officers may have come under Tyr's influence as well.


I hadn’t thought about the original Tyr story at all. Thanks for the update Cramer. The mind control thing could have made for a more interesting, lengthier plot also acting as a red herring for the true culprit later on.

Originally Posted by Cramer
…In a similar vein, Brek asks for the new Legionnaires what the original disappearance was about, but we don't get a full-page summary of that story. Skipping the backstories makes for a tighter tale, while not sacrificing anything the reader needs to know.


I agree with that here. Although it might be saying something about readerships following stories more in this direct market age, compared to Weisinger’s ideas about their age and tenure as readers.
Originally Posted by Cramer
I like the idea that the super-powerful Controller got demoted/depowered for the Sun-Eater screw-up. Consequences again - and he's going after the brats he blames for it.


Controller: And I would have become Head Controller, if it weren't for you meddling kids. Why don’t you mind your own business?
Chief Zendak: It’s Science Police business now. Thanks kids!
Daphne Damsel: It was nothing. We’re glad to have broken up his Multiversal Sun Eater smuggling ring. Right Scooby?
Super Scooby: Rat’s Right!

Shaggy: >Banned by the Comics Code…<

Originally Posted by Cramer
Brainy teeters on the edge of madness - you just feel the instability, as he does himself, as he begins to obsess over Sensor Girl. Ex-girlfriend Tasmia tries to offer a comforting word but is rebuffed. I wonder just how close those two were/are. He's been weeping about his hopeless love for Kara, so perhaps he doesn't want to be reminded of a little fling with Tasmia.


That’s a very interesting observation about Shady. She’s certainly in a position to spot the signs with Querl, considering what she’s dealing with off panel with Lar. That could be deliberate from Levitz.

Originally Posted by Cramer
Jan is growing into his leadership nicely; he calmly assesses the news of Jo and Tinya's disappearance before he himself is taken and he's the one who defends the destruction of the Limbo planet to the Controller. He's also the quickest to understand the situation once the Controller has seized the five.


I’d agree that Jan did well in this issue.

Originally Posted by Cramer
This looks like a version of the Trolley Problem - the Legionnaires have to choose between destroying Tyrraz (and thereby killing sentients) or opposing the Controller's order and letting Tyrraz destroy other planets.


With the Legion trolley problem:-
Lar can save everyone
Querl goes back in time to make sure no one was anywhere near the trolley
The Trolley turns out to be the one owned by Dr Mayavale who tries to run everyone over in countless previous lives.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962212 10/25/18 06:19 PM
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LSH 19
Due to the hectic nature of this alternate dimension known as RL, I’m going to have to keep my reviews short and to the point for a while.

“No Good Deed Goes Unpunished” is based on an intriguing and original premise that the Legionnaires’ previous actions have led to unintended consequences. There’s a truism that heroes of all kinds don’t always have complete information, and sometimes they have a split second to act, such as a police officer shooting a suspect or a soldier returning fire to the enemy. This nasty reality intrudes in the Legion universe. Jo, Tinya, Cham, Vi, and Jan learn that the Controller world they destroyed 11 issues ago was really a source of weapons to confront an even bigger threat, and, without those weapons, the Controllers are powerless to stop the threat from destroying other worlds. The Controller responsible for that world comes calling. He yanks the Legionnaires away from their missions and HQ and tells them, like unruly children, to clean up their mess.

Worse, “cleaning up their mess” may involve violating the Legion’s code against killing.

This is a wonderful set up for a suspense-filled drama. Unfortunately, it is mainly just a set up. I was disappointed then (and am only mildly disappointed now) to get midway through the book and find “to be continued.” I wanted to see more of the Legion’s efforts to stop the machine world of Tyrraz and to see Jan wrestling with his choice. I concede this was an effective cliffhanger, but the story leading up to it could have used more “meat.”

I’m not sure it was necessary for the villains to belong to the same race as Tyr. This is another Levitz nod to the past. Earlier in the story, he has Colossal Boy and Phantom Girl (along with Ultra Boy) visiting Manna-5, the same agricultural world they visited back in Superboy 195 (Wildfire’s debut as ERG-1). I don’t mind the planet reference as it gives the Legion’s galactic neighborhood a sense of consistency. However, the universe is a vast place, and it seems mighty convenient that the enemies feared by the Controllers are related to someone we’ve seen before (and recently, at that).

In the backup story, “Freedom of Choice,” Jacques faces a dilemma of his own. The irascible Dr. Gym’ll has isolated the Norg serum that gives Invisible Kid II his powers, and he can remove Jacques’ invisibility, teleportation, or both. It’s always seemed like a cut-and-dried choice to me. Invisibility is the power he can fully control, so it should stay; the teleportation power—though it holds enormous potential to make him one of the most powerful Legionnaires—is dangerous and unstable; it should go. In the end, this is the choice Jacques makes.

It’s a solid story with few surprises, though a lot of missed opportunities. Except for Dr. Gym’ll’s badgering, I never got a sense that Jacques wanted to give up being a Legionnaire and return to a normal life. We’ve been given only a few glimpses of his life before he became a Legionnaire—his two sisters and his friend from the other recent backup story. While it’s true that he became a Legionnaire through circumstance rather than any burning desire to stand in line at tryouts or attend the academy (take that, all you other applicants!), he seems just as comfortable being a Legionnaire as not. I would like to see that his choice truly matters to him and that, perhaps, he has to give up something of his old life to remain a Legionnaire.

On the plus side, I like Jacques more and more as a character because of this story. A deeply religious man, it bothers him that he accidently caused the death of another person. He thinks ahead, contacting his Legion colleagues, before wading into battle. And though he chooses to keep the less flashy and arguably less versatile power (the one that literally makes him invisible), he’s comfortable with his choice and with his role as a Legionnaire. Jacques knows his power limits him—he calls in the big guns to capture two of the three robbers—but, like Chuck before him, he makes the most of what he’s been given.

As a nice touch, the three Legionnaires who left to find their missing comrades in the main story are diverted to pick up the two robbers in this one.

As a whole, LSH 19 is a very competent issue with a lot of great ideas. It also boasts outstanding artwork from two stellar illustrators. However, it still feels like Levitz is treading water.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962213 10/25/18 06:33 PM
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Here's my Top 25 of November 5, 1985:

1. Miracleman # 2 -- Eclipse
2. New Teen Titans # 17 -- DC
3. Crisis on Infinite Earths # 11 -- DC
4. Nightcrawler # 4 -- Marvel
5. Squadron Supreme # 6 -- Marvel
6. Dreadstar # 22 -- Marvel/Epic
7. West Coast Avengers # 5 -- Marvel
8. Star Trek # 23 -- DC
9. Green Lantern # 197 -- DC
10. Nexus # 17 -- First

11. Aquaman # 1 -- DC
12. Blue Devil # 20 -- DC
13. Iron Man # 203 -- Marvel
14. X-Factor # 1 -- Marvel
15. Legion of Super-Heroes # 19 -- DC
16. Justice League of America # 247 -- DC
17. Amazing Spider-Man # 273 -- Marvel
18. Vision & Scarlet Witch # 5 -- Marvel
19. All-Star Squadron # 53 -- DC
20. Infinity Inc. # 22 -- DC

21. Legionnaires 3 # 1 -- DC
22. Fury of Firestorm # 44 -- DC
23. New Defenders # 152 -- Marvel
24. DC Challenge # 3 -- DC
25. Avengers # 264 -- Marvel


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962214 10/25/18 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FC

Of the five Legionnaires taken by the Controller to fix the mess they created (a very nice lesson on consequences), only Cham was actively involved in the original Tyr story - he impersonated Tyr. So you'd think we'd get a flashback explanation from him when he hears the words "Tyrraz" and "destruction", but no panel time is wasted on that. (Of course, it's only when we see the guard attack Violet and Tinya that it's confirmed to be the same race as Tyr.) In a similar vein, Brek asks for the new Legionnaires what the original disappearance was about, but we don't get a full-page summary of that story. Skipping the backstories makes for a tighter tale, while not sacrificing anything the reader needs to know.


Yeah. As you note, there is a lot of economy in giving background information, and it keeps the story moving. I'm glad Levitz didn't have Cham make that connection. Given how frequent references to past stories can become, I applaud the writer's restraint here.

Quote
Brainy teeters on the edge of madness - you just feel the instability, as he does himself, as he begins to obsess over Sensor Girl. Ex-girlfriend Tasmia tries to offer a comforting word but is rebuffed. I wonder just how close those two were/are. He's been weeping about his hopeless love for Kara, so perhaps he doesn't want to be reminded of a little fling with Tasmia.


It's interesting that you drew the connection between Shady and Querl here and to them having once dated. I wonder if Levitz even remembered that. Shady was introduced in Adv. # 365 and, by 370, she was firmly attached to Mon-El, so the liaison with Brainy was brief and not a major aspect of the series or (apparently) of either of their lives. If Levitz wanted us to draw that connection, I applaud his economy even more for not spelling it out for us.

Quote
Rather than continue with something both cast and reader knows, Levitz simply has the Controller appear and confirm things to them. He returns to the missing and gives the reader a summary of the previous story, while give us a little action as Tyrraz attacks them.


Another great example of economy and handling exposition.

Originally Posted by thoth
]But It’s only Shady who’s currently worried about Lar.


Indeed, and maybe she has something to worry about. Although it's a very subtle bit, I thought it was interesting that Mon suddenly decided to join Drake and Dawny on the quest, leaving Shady behind--all alone on the roof of the HQ. Her shadow even seems to be vaguely in the shape of a question mark.

Earlier, Mon stands very comfortably beside Sensor Girl as they both search for the missing Legionnaires. When Shady arrives, he seems to grimace at her kiss and to pull her arm away from his chest. Subtle gestures, perhaps? Trouble in Lover Land? Or does he not want her to get too close to see how unstable he is truly becoming?








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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962242 10/26/18 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by thoth
The inclusion of the SP investigation is a little pointless, as far as the rest of the story goes, and I’d have preferred a Vi & Cham scene instead. But later I’d be moaning that the investigation plot wasn’t getting any attention. The solution would have been to have Vi/Cham helping out on that investigation when they disappeared combining both plots.


That would have been better, since Vi & Cham just came out of nowhere in this story.

Quote
What’s surprising, and against comic tradition is that the Controller left masses of distinctive energy in their own meeting room, and none of that is being used to trace him.


Good point, Levitz didn't take the easy way out but dispensed with the Controller's energy as being too powerful for Mysa. But is it traces of that power that Dawnstar is tracking, or just the sense of the missing Legionnaires?

Quote
With the Legion trolley problem:-
Lar can save everyone
Querl goes back in time to make sure no one was anywhere near the trolley
The Trolley turns out to be the one owned by Dr Mayavale who tries to run everyone over in countless previous lives.


Yeah, the Trolley Problem doesn't really work if there are super-heroes around, but I do like your Mayavale connection.

Originally Posted by HWW
I’m going to have to keep my reviews short and to the point for a while.


Something else else to which I aspire but fail to achieve!

Quote
It’s a solid story with few surprises, though a lot of missed opportunities. Except for Dr. Gym’ll’s badgering, I never got a sense that Jacques wanted to give up being a Legionnaire and return to a normal life. We’ve been given only a few glimpses of his life before he became a Legionnaire—his two sisters and his friend from the other recent backup story. While it’s true that he became a Legionnaire through circumstance rather than any burning desire to stand in line at tryouts or attend the academy (take that, all you other applicants!), he seems just as comfortable being a Legionnaire as not. I would like to see that his choice truly matters to him and that, perhaps, he has to give up something of his old life to remain a Legionnaire.


Jacques seems to go with the flow. That he's willing to submit to these medical procedures at least indicates a desire solve his power problem, presumably to remain a Legionnaire - but there could have been more set-up, have him discuss what to do with his family and friends.

Quote
As a nice touch, the three Legionnaires who left to find their missing comrades in the main story are diverted to pick up the two robbers in this one.


I missed that! A nice bit of narrative continuity; I'm curious if it has an effect in the next issue.

An aside on the second story: I recently discovered the Sector General series of short stories & novels written by James White, about a multi-species hospital on a space station. White was from Belfast and wrote these stories about a pacifist hospital in response to the Troubles of Northern Ireland, so it's a very Legion-y concept. Medicus One is in that mold - although we usually only see Legionnaires getting treatment there, the art in this story gives the sense of many different species. I've not yet come across anyone quite as grumpy as Gym'll in the Sector General books.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962251 10/26/18 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by HWW
Earlier, Mon stands very comfortably beside Sensor Girl as they both search for the missing Legionnaires. When Shady arrives, he seems to grimace at her kiss and to pull her arm away from his chest. Subtle gestures, perhaps? Trouble in Lover Land? Or does he not want her to get too close to see how unstable he is truly becoming?


For something so subtle to be appearing so far in advance of the issue where it takes place is really one of the stand out things about Levitz's work on the Legion. It's just not something you see in many books. After a little Legion reading binge a lot of other books just become rather pedestrian (and not because they don't have flight rings)


Originally Posted by Cramer
Good point, Levitz didn't take the easy way out but dispensed with the Controller's energy as being too powerful for Mysa. But is it traces of that power that Dawnstar is tracking, or just the sense of the missing Legionnaires?


Controller power > Mysa Power

I read it as Dawny tracking the Legionnaires. I think she said something about not being able to find them last time. I just don't think tracking the energy occurred to Levitz.


Originally Posted by Cramer
Something else else to which I aspire but fail to achieve!


I shall tell you how. But first a prologue...

I'm sure my earlier reviews were nice and short. I blame Levitz and his pesky subplotting!


Originally Posted by Cramer
Originally Posted by HWW
As a nice touch, the three Legionnaires who left to find their missing comrades in the main story are diverted to pick up the two robbers in this one.


I missed that! A nice bit of narrative continuity; I'm curious if it has an effect in the next issue.


I also missed that one. Good spot HWW!


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962309 10/27/18 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FC
An aside on the second story: I recently discovered the Sector General series of short stories & novels written by James White, about a multi-species hospital on a space station. White was from Belfast and wrote these stories about a pacifist hospital in response to the Troubles of Northern Ireland, so it's a very Legion-y concept. Medicus One is in that mold - although we usually only see Legionnaires getting treatment there, the art in this story gives the sense of many different species. I've not yet come across anyone quite as grumpy as Gym'll in the Sector General books.


Thanks for mentioning this. I just read the first couple of pages of the first story on Amazon, and it looks like a very interesting read--something I will keep on my watch list.

In the introduction to the First Sector General Omnibus, writer Brian Stableford remarks, "Nothing dates as quickly as the future." This is certainly true of Star Trek, but I wonder how much it applies to the Legion. The stories we are currently reviewing were published in the mid-1980s, more than 30 years ago. I've never noticed them being dated, but I'm rather biased towards all things Legion. Any thoughts?


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962312 10/27/18 01:31 PM
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Anything that's dated like flared Phantom costumes I put down to being retro. smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 21
Fat Cramer #962333 10/28/18 02:54 AM
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These stories are certainly less visually dated than the 1970s ones in which they're reading paper newspapers and books and typing on keyboards. It's something of interest to watch out for in future issues, though.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
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