Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 20

I certainly didn't see it coming. It's a brilliant twist, but, in a way, a very depressing one. For all the Legion's efforts, the bad guy actually wins. He steals one of their children and sends him back in time to be transformed into one of the Legion's deadliest enemies--an enemy who killed a Legionnaire. I couldn't help feeling there was a cynical aspect to this. The Legionnaires never even know (as far as this story is concerned) what really happened. Only the reader does. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

As for Imra and Garth not wanting to know anything about the baby, this rings true to me. A lot of parents want to be surprised by the sex of their child. It adds to the mystery and wonder of giving life. It's nice to see that, even in the 30th century, some sense of mystery remains.



That's how I read it. it was just an excuse to get the Legion to Avalon.

It's interesting that you described Starfinger as a red herring. Mordru is also a red herring in a lot of ways.



They had just finished a bottle of Magic Ale.



Yes. There is a sense of characters moving forward.

It does seem contrived and not something one would deduce. Mordru isn't a team player and has either worked alone or with minions clearly under his command.



Given the great number of villains in the LSV, I'm surprised that Hanscomb wasn't connected with them in some way - such as interrupting Mekt's plan to kill Garth because Hanscomb himself needs Garth's power for some project. Although, as you point out, if he's such a minor threat, the LSV might not even want him.



It also quietly sets the stage for the three founders to move on from direct involvement with the Legion - although that could have been tacked on to any story.

Not I. I think he wasn’t originally intended to show up either.

My first impression of the Validus kidnapping was probably that it was a bit of a stretch. Even with the mention of the curse. That would have been before I knew about its fandom origins. It does make lots of connections and I do like the logic of it all. But it never really played out as we’ll see.




I was picking up a little of the old fear of Mordru form the team, which was a nice reminder of just how menacing he was in his first appearance.



I think that the birth as an event perhaps moving two founders away form the team, the curse, a recognition of Mysa as being a Legionnaire and the start of a long term Mordru arc gives at least some plot bones to the story. With the Levitz Paradigm in place, even if it’s a bit looser for non-monthly books, there’s still going to be progression. Looking back, the first annual with Computo had lots of filler, but I quite enjoyed that too.



That does seem to be a bit of a giant plot hole then. Or… an opportunity for a Lost Tale of the Legion!

A drained Mordru makes a bid for quick power following his release by Darkseid. It involves a trip to Avalon, and Mysa, where he’s entombed once again. This time, it plants the seeds in the other sorcerer’s minds that a longer term solution will be required. That will help lead into the pay off to come. It may even weaken the reserves of the Sorcere’s world and magic generally, which will lead towards the Magic Wars. I’d play with Mysa being part of the Curse just as a tease, for good measure.




The Shadow powers are quite strongly linked with supernatural darkness here. I seem to recall a hint of that in Tasmia’s secret origins story too. But it could have opened up some interesting possibilities. I also recall the Servants of Darkness hesitant of Tasmia’s power. It might not only have been because of it’s visual similarity, which again opens up some possible subplots, on her bloodline.




Perhaps they were remembering Earthwar, and Mordru’s manipulation of others, and thought they’d go straight to the source this time?



This is something I’m enjoying quite a bit through these rereads.

Unfortunately, Blok and Jacques are reduced to hanging around headquarters and delivering exposition.



It was an anti-climax with Mordru. But I think the story is the better for it. We don’t need to see Mordru defeated again. Instead, he’s restablished as a potent threat in the Legionverse. He’s entombed, but we know that it won’t be forever, and that he’s powerful enough to give the Legion pause before acting. We also know that he has disciples who are willing and able to bring him back too. If we’d had a Mordru return and also a Darkseid one, then it would have seemed a bit overcrowded with Mega-villains.



Hey, Poe stores have given me a fear of being buried alive, and yet nearly all the time I get through my days without being entombed.


I don’t mind the bad guy winning some, if not quite a bit, of the time. It makes the overall victories all the sweeter and harder fought. I also think it had to be something particularly impressive to really capture the feel of the curse. Initially it is, but it doesn’t really work in the long term. Did we ever get to see Garridan play with a Lyle Norg dolly?

It did feel a bit cynical. For me, I think it’s possibly because it was a well-polished, complete fandom idea that was brought into the plot. It makes sense, but might not be to everyone’s tastes. I wonder if we’ll get a lot more of this during v4.



For such a memorable villain, it was a poor showing from Starfinger. I quite like the progression of villains. But I do prefer it to be when they’ve given a good account of themselves along the way. Having Darkseid simply devour the powers of Trapper and Mordru else to show he’s tougher than Batman, or the Legionverse or whatever is a fairly cheap way of doing this. Although it did open up later plots for development. Computo gave a decent account of itself, before being outsmarted.

I guess Levitz may already have been looking ahead to bringing in his own version later on, as he’d done with the Infinite Man for the Trapper.

Mind you, I’m not sure what Hanscomb would have brought to the LSV. They already had a firm plan. A Lost Tale of the Legion could have had Starfinger try and manipulate the Legion form within, as part of a wider LSV plot. This could have failed for similar reasons and Hanscomb could have paid the price for it, much as Pharoxx did.

Maybe Hanscomb was too old for the LSV (though I always thought Tyr was older, as well).

Good points about Mordru not being revived in this story. It provided a nice twist to what readers might have expected. You also made good points about various Legionnaires going through transition in this story. For me, though, it's easier to appreciate this aspect in hindsight. It wasn't at all clear to me that Garth and Imra (much less Rokk) were being moved to the sideline, and Mysa coming into her own as a Legionnaire is really based on a crack from Wildfire; as has been noted, she'd already proved herself.

I guess the ending seems anticlimactic to me because there isn't a moment where Things Are Different than they were at the beginning of the story. Nothing is really changed or advanced. It's down to the teachers who tell us what the significance of it all is, and they are really just tacked onto the story. Maybe Mysa should've said something like, "See, Wildfire! I'm as much a Legionnaire as you are."



Ah, if only someone had said this . . .

I read these stories very differently today than I did then. At the time, the Legionnaires running off to save their teammate would have been the paramount consideration. Time, life, and a sprinkling of cynicism have shown me that heroes can't always afford to make such choices. Good friends and lovers are sometimes sacrificed for the better good. It's a murky grey area of moral ambiguity--and also a difficult choice that most of us (the universe willing) will never have to make. Once Levitz raised this choice for Mon, I would like to have seen Mon follow through--whether in Shady's favor or not. Making such choices "reveals character," as they say in the literary books.

Put another way, we know Mon is heroic, but just how heroic is he when both his ideals and love are tested?

LSH V3 #2

Lots of good points in the comments here.

I enjoyed the continued ramping up of the threat the LSV pose in this issue. They certainly do appear more dangerous (if rarely successfully deadlier) than their previous appearances. Even they haven't killed off any legionnaires yet they've certainly given a few some lumps.

The thought about Darkseid's role in the Great Darkness being generally unknown or regarded as fake is interesting. It certainly does put the Daxamites into the bad guy spotlight. Then again villains generally are not known for their interest in deep thought and research into current affairs.

A couple of minor questions raised. Ayla has been outfitted more than the standard Winathian garb she had on when she was captured. Why (apart from the comic audience)? I wondered about for warmth since Orlando appears to be a distinctly cooler climate to Winath, but then again the outfit provided would hardly make very much difference. I hardly think the LSV would be prudish. The only one likely to care I guess is Mekt who perhaps clothed her precisely to cool down some of the attitudes of other members of his group. He may be mad and even ultimately willing to kill his sister but that is quite different to allowing her to be used as a playtoy as we can imagine some other inhabitants of Orlando might have been.

M-17W where the Fusion Powerspheres are manufactured is specifically described as "automated factories function in an atmosphere-less low-G environment for greater efficiency". Presumably this is why all the sky scenes show stars. It isn't just night but actually in space, possibly around some asteroids? Why then, having set the scene, do all the characters behave as if they are in a high-G atmosphere environment? Nobody appears to wear transsuits or equivalent, sound appears to travel as through air, Titania holds the sphere against gravity, and Dawnstar falls to the surface with apparently potentially fatal speed. Another item that doesn't fit either environment, Titania and Magno Lad fly up to meet Lazon shortly before being teleported away. Neither have flight powers, and low-G wouldn't help. Magno Lad could perhaps use magnetism and Titania might have lept but it doesn't look like it.

Another thing that felt a bit weird to me was the reflection in Danstar's face of Wildfire's suit destruction. While dramatically effective and emphasising her understandable distraction letting Lazon catch her, she must have had incredibly reflective makeup or something on. Later in the asteroids Dawnstar is reflected in Widlfire's visor, a nice shot and perfectly understandable, but not so the reciprocal here.

Having said that I did like this fight scene overall. All three villains powers were used intelligently and effectively, Magno Lad hurling equipment magnetically before shedding Wildfire's suit, Lazon being the prefect foil for Dawnstar, Titania giving Jo the ultimate belly kick. It was a good fight and showed that Wildfire was wrong about "these jerks". This new LSV were a very credible threat.

Good questions stile - I can't think of any answers other than artistic license. Mekt could be acting as a protective big brother, in his passive-aggressive way, and bring her something to cover her body; it would also be another way of exercising control over her.

LSH #3 Everywhere a Villain by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, design by Keith Giffen art by Steve Lightle & Larry Mahlstedt, colors by Carl Gafford, letters by John Costanza



The Orando team departs for Orando to rescue their two teammates, discussing what the LSV could be up to. As Wildfire, Dawnstar, Lar and Jo approach Orando, Zymyr opens a warp; only Dawnstar is able to evade it.

Jan, Brainy, Dirk, Blok and Gim leave Earth for Orando, leaving only Rokk and Jacques behind; Rokk questions that the alarm may be a trap. Rokk tells Shvaughn he worries about all the Legionnaires; Shvaughn worries about Jan.

On Orando, Val and Jeckie are unconscious and bound; Ayla is wearing cuffs which nullify her power. Mekt asks her again to join the LSV and make passage to a new universe which they shall rule. She refuses. He blasts her and leaves her unconscious, denouncing her as his sister.

Elsewhere on Orando, Nura regains consciousness; Thom and Vi are still out of action. Hunter confronts her; she attacks him then sees the castle from her vision in which a Legionnaire dies. Silver Slasher grabs her from behind.

On Restaurant Row in Metropolis, R.J. shares a drink with Wynn and Marte Allon. The Allons look forward to Marte's end of term while R.J. anticipates trouble with whoever may be the next President.

On Orando, the LSV engage in fierce battle with the Legionnaires sucked into the warp, then Dawnstar arrives with those who flew in from Earth. Meanwhile, Nemesis Kid supervises the installation of the stolen polymer shield and powerspheres around Orando. Nemesis Kid thinks about ruling the new universe to which they will travel and how only he and Zymyr could have made this possible. Zymyr wants to set the process in action, but Nemesis wants to wait for the battle to result in some Legionnaire deaths. However, the Legionnaires have gained the upper hand. Urged on by Zymyr, Nemesis Kid gives the signal to go since they can return and kill the Legionnaires later. Zymyr gathers the LSV and creates a warp.

On Medicus, Garth and Imra get an update from Rokk. Imra says they don't care about the LSV now; Rokk says that it's time for new blood in the Legion. Garth claims the three of them will never leave the team; Imra is clearly more concerned with her new baby.

Above Orando, Nura and Tasmia observe that some of the Legionnaires have vanished with the LSV. Nura tells Blok to bring an unconscious Brin to her; Wildfire berates her but she reminds him that, with Jan absent, she's in charge. He gets angry, but Lar calls their attention to another warp. The entire planet of Orando has been teleported, leaving Nura, Brainy, Blok, Wildfire, Lar, Tasmia and Brin behind.

Orando is between dimensions; Nemesis Kid says that they must gather power for the next step to a new universe. In the meantime, they can kill the eight Legionnaires who teleported with them. Ron-Karr congratulates him as bhe greatest leader of the LSV; Nemesis Kid slugs him, saying he is the only leader the team will ever have.

Comments: This issue serves primarily to put all the pieces in place on the chessboard. A few more battles and warps as we inch forward to the LSV's big idea. The battle scenes are frantic, contrasting sharply with the interludes of RJ with the Allons and Garth, Imra and baby as well as with the quiet preparations for the Great Passage.

Giffen and/or Lightle's version of The Sorcerers' Planet is unique, faces in the clouds, exotic architecture. (I'm not sure what the "designs" attribution means in the credits.) Giffen did the cover and it's considerably more chaotic than the previous two, conforming to the action as many Legionnaires engage directly with the LSV.

Ayla doesn't do anything but resist, but that's plenty, given her brother's assault and the seeming hopelessness of her situation. Ayla hadn't struck me as a particularly tough character up until this point but she truly exhibits strength of character here. The increasing close-ups of her face as she repeats "No" to Mekt emphasize her resolve. She doesn't scream back at him, just the same quiet "No" response. It's not clear to the reader, at the end of Mekt's attack, if she's the Legionnaire who dies.

Nura asserts her authority as deputy leader. It's churlish of Wildfire to dispute her position, especially in the circumstances.

Tasmia and Tinya continue to be catty and derisive to Brin, who sadly seems to be becoming the dope of the team. I don't like the girls' attitude to Brin, but it does ring true to life.

Nice exclamation mark in Wildfire's helmet face as Orando disappears. Early emoji.

We get a few vague hints of future story developments. Short term, there will likely be a leadership dispute between Lightning Lord and Nemesis Kid. We know, via Nura, that one Legionnaire will die. Longer term: Garth's comment that they'll never leave the Legion is a pretty clear signal that they will. Rokk wants to bring new members to the team. Marte Allon is stepping down and R.J. anticipates an administration less favourable to his Legionnaires. Jan starts to be more proactive in his relationship with Shvaughn.

I wonder if this is the first comic book in which a mother breastfeeds a baby; another indication of how progressive the Legion book was.

Steve Lightle's arrival felt like a good incentive to come back to the Re-Read sooner than I'd planned, soooo...here I am!



In my opinion, it's not a good sign that it has taken more than half of the entire story-arc just to set things up. But that's just the way things are in LevitzGiffenLand, where vague notions of plot and subtext flounder in a churning ocean of mindless summer-blockbuster-movie violence. I wonder if Hollywood schlock-meister Michael Bay is a fan of LevitzGiffenLand (Gods help us all if he ends up doing for the Legion what he did for my beloved Transformers.)



My guess would be that Giffen did the layouts, which Lightle could then adjust to better suit his own style, and Giffen also came up with most or all of the ornamental background stuff. And even with Larry Mahlstedt doing yet another sloppy inking job, the look of the book still improves thousandfold -- I contend that Lightle was the best draftsman to ever draw the Legion, with a style cleaner and prettier than Giffen ever managed. For the first time since the issues immediately prior to the Great Darkness Saga, the imagery in the book feels complete to me -- the good-looking humanoid characters are drawn with as much care and effort as the weird aliens and the action sequences.



Very well put, Cramey. That is an extremely well-written scene, refreshing in its understatement. Bravo Levitz!



Even discounting the unpleasant future developments with both characters under different creators, that scene still feels to me like one big pile of yuck. He Who has quite astutely observed over the course of this re-read how badly Jan has been coming off during the Levitz era. In the here and now, I find Jan's forwardness downright creepy, and Shvaughn's nauseating reaction, with her going all "TEE-HEE-HEE-HEE...siiiiigh," only underlines what a waste of space the Preboot version of this character was overall. In my humble opinion.



Good observation. Yay for the lack of That Damn Comics Code Seal on the cover.

LoSH v3 3

Last issue, a mysterious former Legionnaire turned villain summoned the remainder of the heroes… to their doom.

I can’t say I’m a fan of this cover either, but it’s fits in with the style of the first two. Issue 1 had the Legion breaking in/out of somewhere; the second had the villains ripping up a Legion flag and this has them fight each other.

The opening splash page has the Legion’s point team leave the Sorcerer’s World, following on from the events in Annual 3. We get a recap that the villains have stolen the spheres, a planet sized polymer screen and could well be located on the remote planet of Orando; home to Val & Jeckie. It’s not too clunky a way of bringing readers up to speed (particularly new ones).

There’s an added bonus. Brin will develop into having an intuitive habit of being right about certain events. Here, it starts off as him just being around when Cham offers the possibility of the LSV’s goals. While it turns out they have wider plans, that first scene in #1 was an oath to kill.

Steve Lightle has joined the team. Having lost out to Shoemaker for Tales, he gets an opportunity to work under what looks to be Giffen layout roughs. It takes all of a panel for his Timberwolf to stand out, even in that dull outfit. Cham’s deductions and Tinya and Tasmia’s chat make it a good, quiet scene. Which is exactly when Levitz drags half of them into one of the warps we’ve previously seen.

It’s fitting that Dawny is too fast to escape. I always felt that she should have then encountered Terrus. We don’t see him go into the warp, although he might have done.

The alarm from Orando is also bringing in a team from Earth. Jan seems much more sue of himself as he smooches Stalker Officer Erin goodbye. He’s a little brittle under Cosmic Boy’s cool questioning. Considering his previous indecisiveness, he’s not working out as a memorable leader as yet.

Cos and Erin share a page looking at the common link between their relationship. It’s a nice touch to remember this sort of thing. It also provides us with another example of Cos taking an advisory role, staying on Earth and his connections outside the team. If he doesn’t know where Jacques is, could he not just Space Phone him?

There’s a combination of particle accelerator and castle back on Orando, where Ayla looks at the unconscious forms of Jeckie and Val. “Even Karate Kid captured...2 is of note to readers like me who were only being introduced to Val. Looking back, you can see that he really was considered to be something different.

Following on from his attempts last issue, Mekt tries once more to get Ayla to join him, and probably of secondary importance, the others. He tries a variety of approaches. To crush her hope, he says that the Legion’s lives are almost lost; to show his destiny, he tells her about his contact with the storm. When that doesn’t work, he entreats her aid as a sister. He tells her he’s not in charge, and is looking only to help her as best he can. After another single word refusal, his real personality comes forth. She should obey him, because of his ego and his delusions of power over others, especially his siblings. In anger, he electrocutes Ayla in his Giffen style electrical form, leaving her for dead. I’ve always noticed that her shackles were broken apart. It’s a small thing, but I always thought that would lead to an escape. It was much later when I noticed Ayla’s blank, staring eyes. Mekt really may think that she’s dead. I don’t recall any surprise form him later that she wasn’t.

This is a very powerful scene. The shading of Val and Jeckie does not put them in a good place. The machine they are linked to looks like a death trap. It’s a far cry from the ACME villain tubes from the Adventure days that would only work against that heroes’ powers.

It’s a turning point for Ayla. Thinking back to #1, she would have been perfectly happy leading a life on Winath. She might have found herself getting more involved in running things, or follow her interests in mechanics. But she would have settled there. Her situation here hasn’t changed her personality. But it’s brought back the reasons why she left the Legion in the first place. And its changed the options she feels are open to her. She’s not about to side with any villain. She isn’t going to leave two friends to die.

There’s an edge to it, as it’s (probably yet) another encounter with her ill brother. She might not say much, but you can see a lot of how she must have felt growing up with this guy.

In the Annual, Garth is safe from Starfinger due to the work Brainy has done in building up their mental defences. I wonder if this is also the reason why Esper Lass isn’t used immediately to force Ayla to join them. I could see Mekt getting a chance to ask her to join voluntarily, but there’s something else perhaps stopping the LSV being more direct about it.

Elsewhere on Orando, the villains look through the crashed, from last issue, Legion shuttle. Nura is still conscious. She takes out Hunter easily, relegating him down the Villain pecking order. But she’s distracted by the sight of a castle. It something she saw in her premonition of a Legionnaires death. Nura is attacked by the Silver Slasher and we see her screams.

We get more information on Nura’s vision. The one she didn’t bother telling her teammates about. It had a castle in it, and the team have recently returned form a wedding on the same planet. Yet Levitz still didn’t have Nura make any connections or warn anyone. Silver Slasher looks set to seriously injure Nura and threatens to kill her. I can’t imagine a way she gets out of this scene without injury. But she would show up unscathed later on, weakening the threat of the LSV considerably. It’s another scene that showcases Lightle’s talents nicely.

There’s been some quiet subplots involving Gim and his family in this series. First its him moving out with Year and now it’s a scene focusing on him mom retiring as Earth president. It’s a set up for issues to come, but it will be shame to lose that direct connection to the team. Even if it was a little unlikely. It’s also another example of change. Marte Allon, the founders. Perhaps Mr Brande will get some ideas too. Disappointing to read that he’s a tax evader. Although Earthgov did once raid his bank accounts.

Near Ornado, the Legionnaires taken through Zmyr’s warp find the LSV waiting for them. It doesn’t seem to go well for them. As it’s a space battle, Giffen & Lightle use half a dozen almost splash pages to show us the concurrent action with lots of little battles in one. There are some oddities. Lazon was giving Dawny a run for speed, but he’s a lot slower here; Magno is seen about to attack Wildfire. It’s something that would definitely remove Drake from the battle, but instead he attacks Ultra Boy. Brin is completely knocked out, but Jo recovers very quickly when it happens to him.

Ayla was rendered unconscious in #1 by Radiation Roy but Tinya, who seems to be vulnerable to his powers, manages to recover very quickly too. If Lazon is underutilised for the LSV, Mon-El certainly is for the Legion. He’s easily outmanoeuvred by Ol-Vir again.

One good thing about the battle is you can see the tide shifting within it. The Legion are attacked, but manage to hold on before the villains gain the upper hand. The Legion look for a retreat, but may be too late.

Its the arrival of reinforcements that runs the tide the other way. Dawnstar’s tracking powers really save her teammates here. She also gets to take out Lazon and Titania (mistaken for Slasher by Levitz’s dialogue). So it’s a very successful and welcome scene for Dawny.

Lightle does an excellent job juggling such a big cast in his first issue, and still managing to deliver some top panels. The Colossal Boy vs Tyr panel would be in the DC RPG.

The former Legionnaire is revealed to be Nemesis Lad. Since it was the cliffhanger of last issue, having his name just dropped into the dialogue seemed a bit odd. I thought it would be better if that had been delayed until a few panels later. We could have seen his work on Orando, then closed in on his silhouette on the platform (it’s a distinctive costume outline) and then been told.

I’m sure that Ron-Karr has his uses, but he clearly has Super Annoyance as one of his powers. Creep.

Despite the grandeur of the villains plan being further revealed, my favourite part of this scene was Nemesis Kid apologising to Zmyr for waking him abruptly. There’s a dynamic working in the villains; group and it takes a strong relationship between the tow leaders of it, to make it work. It would never have worked had Mekt’s ego been in charge.

Up until now, the villains have been snatched at the point of killing the heroes. Its reversed here and that’s further highlighted by showing us the warp in reverse. We get the view from the villains side of the portal, rather than seeing them sucked into it from the outside.

Nemesis Kid gives his colleagues as much time as he can negotiate from Zmyr, but agrees to leave when the battle shifts in the heroes favour. First the villains are removed, along with some unlucky Legionnaires. Then the LSV take all of Orando with them.

Oddly, we get the plot half step of them taking the world into a midway point between our universe and another. Is this so they can be tracked? To facilitate the plot need for them to commute back and forth against the Legion? To Launch a first series of Legion Lost?

Disappointingly, while this is going on all Wildfire can do is bicker about who’s in charge against Nura. She’s at least making some decisions. I guess she was going to regroup before approaching Orando. Another option would have been to send in Dawny and Mon El to scout the area. But it shows that the LSV are more collective at leadership level as well as having proactive planning. It’s also disappointing to see Brainy utter “How?” He’s relegated to forcefield-guy-in-overalls for this story.

Around, and on Earth, the three founders write themselves out of another story. They are almost testing each other to see who wants to leave, with none of them wanting to be the first. Cos suggests that the team requires some new blood, which will pay off in the not too distant future.

A bit of a clunker is surely to show which Legionnaire is very likely to get the chop in the letters page of this issue.

The villains get to move forward with their plans, but they must be getting frustrated at being told then can only do a step an issue. In among the big battles that are there to position the pieces for the finale, there’s a few subplots developing. Lightle hits the ground running. Giffen’s page compositions give a consistent look to the book, but Lightle’s character work makes him stand out in his own right.



The LSV have sworn to each kill a Legionnaire. Let’s see how they’ve been getting on.

#1
Ayla – radiation burns from Radiation Roy. Possibly given similar treatment to Dawny.

#2
Ayla - Being kept from the other villains by Mekt, rather than being killed.
Dawnstar – saved at the last second by Mon El in 2.
GiGi – spared by the LSV/ saved by Garth as they look to warp the polymer shield.
Imra – about to be shot by Tyr, when he’s teleported away at the last moment.
Garth – Sun Emperor thought he was about to kill Garth. But I’m not so sure on that one.
Val & Jeckie – rendered unconscious but kept alive, rather than killed, by Mist Master.

#3
Ayla – Electrocuted and left for dead by Mekt.
Thom, Nura and Vi – No one killed as their shuttle was ripped apart.
Nura – Silver Slasher seems to be a very good position to kill Dream Girl, but doesn’t.
Tinya – Radiation poisoning from Radiation Roy.
No casualties from the big LSH/ LSV battle.

There’s quite a bit going on around it, but the main plot has perhaps a warp and a small step forward too many.



Taking another peek, I noticed why I didn’t find the huge battle as being interrupted by the quieter moments. Levitz does a good job in having the heroes sucked into the warp very early, allowing for a whole 7 pages of other plots before really getting the battle underway. Not to mention then using the big splash pages, also providing a stylistic shift.

There’s a moment when Nemesis Lad tells Zmyr “wait—a few minutes more.” Now that could have been an opportunity to give us more subplots as per previous Levitz issues. Instead, we get straight back to the combat. Levitz gets point here for not falling into habits, and being able to shift the action in his plotting.



There are enough Giffen devices to think that he had a strong hand in the page layouts. There’s a lot of Lightle in here, so it could be that Giffen did roughs for the pages and helped with the artistic pacing. I’ll need to dig out the companion to see if it sheds any light on it.



I just noticed that Ayla’s wrists are bleeding as she struggles against the bonds. The blood can still be seen when Mekt shatters those bonds as he electrocutes her. In standard comic tradition if super energy gets into your blood, then you’re bound to get powers of your own. So, I think that detail may have played a small part in Ayla’s Lightning powers being restored…um.. assuming she lives thought this of course…



At least the team will be in good hands if Jan has problems.



Back in the Adventure days, robots were portrayed as being full of gears, lights and units that said “hate” on them. I think there might be a feeling that Brin’s not the brightest because he couldn’t tell that he wasn’t like that. Add in the social isolation and Lotus Fruit issues and here we are.

Fast forward and last year’s Blade Runner had a central plot that could have been the same story. Brin as Replicant works a bit better.







It would be interesting to speculate what the LSV would have been like, if they had achieved all of their goals form the Great Passage. With a universe to plunder, would they have turned on each other. Had they any idea how hospitable this new universe was going to be? Where did they get that knowledge from?


more to follow...

...more up there...



I’m reading that part with a bit more weight in this reread. You’re right in pointing out what a signal it was.



It’s not been that long since the team decided that they couldn’t risk bringing in new members. That was around the time of an Academy spotlight too. I wonder what the speculation was like around that time concerning who the new members would be?



Like the founders remarks, I don’t think I realised what a set up this one was. With Marte having ending up being favourable, I sort of read it as being a likely thing to happen. But it’s a set up that has a really long reach in this volume.



The Legion did show parenthood on a practical level. Graym is in the wrong book if he wants to join the Fantastic Four…of Space any time soon.

Real life has kicked me in the butt this week, so I don't have a lot of free time. But I do want to share some thoughts about v.3 # 3.

The first thing I noticed is that the Steve Lightle art is markedly different from Giffen's or even Shoemaker's. I didn't fully appreciate this at the time, but Lightle is like the Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez of the Legion: someone who is brought in to fill the shoes of a defining superstar artist and acquits himself rather well, though his style seems almost a "lite" (pun not intended) version of the original.

(Apologies to any Garcia-Lopez fans. It's been years since I've looked at his Titans run, so my conclusion may be off, but that's the impression that stays with me. To be fair, anybody would look subordinate following Perez.)

Lightle's figures are off in places, but I think he does what needs to be done--especially in the LSH vs. LSV scenes, which are overwhelming to look at. There is a logic in the scenes--Mon-El's back and forth with Ol-Vir, for example--and each figure and confrontation is well-rendered. Each page looks like several panels or scenes combined together into one. If the goal was to convey the confusion of a battle scene, it succeeded. If the goal was to tell a coherent story, well . . .

My favorite Lightle scene in the book is Ayla's confrontation with Mekt (although he looks much older than he should; perhaps the storm ages one). The white spaces on p. 7 are particularly put to good use. The electrocution scene is horrifying--something else I didn't appreciate at the time. A brother tries to murder his own helpless sister--and it looks like he's succeeded. Taken on its own merits--without the context of other dramatic "death" scenes in comics of the time--it's a gut-wrenching moment.

This is basically an "all out fight" issue and an innovative one in terms of how the fight is depicted. But I feel there are so many characters running around, it's difficult for the writer and reader to keep track of them all. (I've experienced this problem in some of the stories I've written.) This is most noticeable through Dream Girl, et al. When we first see them, they've crashed on Orando, but we didn't see the crash or any indication of it. When last we saw them, in the annual, they were still in the spaceship, just recovering from the darkness. Then there's the Silver Slasher cliffhanger and the fact that nothing comes from it. Then Nura (and Thom?) shows up unexpectedly in orbit with the other Legionnaires who have been left behind from the "Great Passage." Nura seems to know what's going on, who's been left behind, and who's vanished. I guess maybe her precog abilities told her what would happen, but I don't like guessing these things. Too much is going on for there to be a coherent narrative.

Another example: Levitz had to shoe in Micro Lad somewhere, so he has him knocked aside during Cham's battle with Cham Chief (p. 13). If a character doesn't contribute anything valuable to a story, why is he even there?

I like what Levitz attempted to achieve here, but I feel he overreached himself. The LSV gang up on the Legion and chaos ensues. But the writer should never lose control of the story, and some loss of control happens here. The story gets us to where we need to go, but the ride is very bumpy.

So sorry to hear that, He Who. In my returning to the Re-Read, one of the things I was really looking forward to was having in-depth discussions with you. Hope things come back together for you soon.

(Also, as it has been established from the very start of this Re-Read project, a reminder that it's never too late to go back and discuss the finer points of stories than any one was not able to say much about in "real time" for whatever reasons.)



No offense taken, even though I love Garcia-Lopez's art on Titans and everywhere else. But I do have to politely question the notion of Lightle as "Giffen Lite." Perhaps Mahlstedt's inking has a lot to do with any superficial similarities which I myself can't see, but even with subpar inking, I far prefer Lightle's way of drawing people to Giffen's. To reassert something I said in my own review of this issue:



Addenda: In my opinion, even well-inked, pre-weirdness Giffen, such as when Bruce Patterson pretty much rescued Giffen's pencils on issues 287-289 from sleep-inducing blandness, can't hold a candle to Lightle at his very best.



But shouldn't Giffen, as the story's co-writer, and (much as it pains me to say this) Karen Berger as the editor, share some of the blame for the story turning out as one huge, all-over-the-place sprawl with (to paraphrase your critique) little or no coherence?

Finally, I know it's all a matter of individual opinions, so I hope I never at any point come across as disrespectful of your opinion, He Who. That was never my intention.

Always good to see any of your comments.



I’m sure I’ve read a Perez interview where he comments on Garcia-Lopez succeeding him, if only for a few issues as that’s all Garcia Lopez could commit to. I’m paraphrasing but it was along the lines of “Ah poop” basically because Garcia-Lopez was a Grade A artist that the others all really respected the work of. As good as Perez had become, he always wanted to improve and Garcia-Lopez’s art was something he really thought highly of.



Ayla’s staring eyes are hard to forget.



Crikey! Good spot HWW! I hadn’t picked up on Nura’s scenes being out of order. Legion Blooper!



Back when I was adding figures to the Legion Appearance Tally, I noticed quite a number of Legionnaires who turned up as scene dressing. It’s a reminder that they’re still in the organisation.

Thanks, Annfie. My job responsibilities may be changing soon, so my availability to do reviews may be limited, but I'll contribute as I can. I love having in-depth conversations with you and everyone else.



It's coffee or tea to me. Personally, I prefer Giffen's pre-weird style as the figures seemed more natural and attractive. Lightle's figures are rougher and more rugged. He seems use more traditional super-hero bodies and faces. (I was going to give examples, but I don't have the issue in front of me. Mekt's entrance on p. 7 stands out, though.)

Also, I don't mean to imply that either Lightle or Garcia-Lopez were "lite" versions of the artists they replaced; however, they did come into their respective series by replacing an artist who defined the look of the series. They had an enormous responsibility, I think, to follow in said artist's footsteps--to maintain the established look of the series. Yet Lightle was not Giffen (and Garcia-Lopez was not Perez); he had his own distinctive style--and I guess that's why this issue looks like a combination of his work and Giffen's. (It could also be that Giffen did the layouts, as you suggested.) Hence, the artwork in this is issue is a "lite" version of Giffen's style. At least that's my completely uninformed analysis.



My experiences as a writer have given me a different perspective on this. While it's great if editors catch continuity bloopers and such, it's ultimately the responsibility of the writer to make sure the story makes sense, there are no major plot holes, and everything flows together. In the book-publishing world, editors expect writers to fix such things before the manuscript is submitted; otherwise, valuable time is lost getting the mss. up to speed. In the comic book world, where issues are published on a monthly basis and multiple creators (writers, artists, letters, and colorists) are involved, I imagine the deadlines are even tighter and there is an even greater need for everyone to do his or her part.

Giffen's contributions to the writing were always negligible. In the Legion Companion, he says he never sat down with Levitz to plot out issues, though Levitz came to him and they bounced ideas around. Levitz, he said, was very generous with the co-plotting credit.



I never take offense when someone disagrees with me--especially when they do so in such a polite and well-reasoned fashion.



Window-dressing appearances can be quite effective--the Legion surprising Superboy back in # 197, or any number of issues in which someone was sworn in (Tyroc in 218, for example). But I don't think that situation applies here. If characters are dressing windows in a battle scene, it suggests the scene may be too crowded.

With Micro Lad, a big deal was made of Violet getting revenge on him--only for him to be yanked away by the LSV. Nothing seems to come from that build-up (I don't recall if it's dealt with in the rest of the LSV War or not), which leads me to wonder why Micro Lad even needs to be in this story.

Or ring-signal him... perhaps Cos doesn't really care. He's got other stuff on his mind and he's not in charge.



Yes, she's not willing to sit idly by or take the easy route by acceeding to Mekt and hoping for a way out later. She didn't want any of this, but she's in it now and not compromising her ideals.



Good point. I hadn't made the connection on the mental defences. Did Mekt know, or perhaps did Esper Lass already try and fail to mind-control Ayla?



Man, that Hunter... how did he even make the LSV grade? Wasn't he also defeated by Chuck and his father outwitted by Lyle? (Not Looking It Up Lass)



The lack of connection between the castle in her vision and her approach to Orando is a bit of a flub, IMO. Could have left out the castle, or added a line of dialogue.



Imagine the tax write-off he gets for the Legion! So it's not so much diverting as redirecting funds, to put a positive spin on it.



If anyone is going to get tossed out to be eaten by Space Dragons for entertainment after a drunken LSV dinner, I bet it will be Ron-Karr.



True, Mekt's been left to his own little project of dealing with Ayla and communing with the storm. Nemesis Kid must recognize Zmyr as his strategic or intellectual equal while not seeing any threat to his leadership.



That would have been an interesting turn of events. The captured Legionnaires escape, but can't get back to their own universe.





Sure it wasn't a frustrated LSV member taking it out on you after failing to kill a Legionnaire?



It is a powerful scene, even knowing the outcome. Mekt's brutality really comes across visually with those bolts.



A bit jumpy between scenes, indeed, and I missed Nura's (probably) precog knowledge of the situation and how she escaped the Slasher.

They needed someone who wore an eyepatch, just as Tyr filled the mohawk quota.




I only promised to make a Legionnaire upset by criticizing his or her hairstyle. It was easier to make this promise when Pat Broderick was still around.



As I was typing the above post, it occurred to me that that's probably how she knew--in fact, it's the only explanation that makes sense. However, it's a highly convenient use of her power and one the reader has to guess at since the writer doesn't give us any information.

Right Nuklon. You can step away from the time bubble now. Tyr has showed.

Tales #316 Meanwhile... by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, art by Terry Shoemaker & Karl Kesel, Colors by Carl Gaford, Letters by Adam Kubert



Rokk and a team of Subs stop smugglers. He's enlisted the help of the Subs to look for the suppliers of the nukes which fireballed his family's neighbourhood but this gang was not them. In the shadows, a figure gripes that his cargo smuggling has been disrupted by Legionnaires and now he fears capture. As he tries to run for an exit, the heroes pursue him but he imprisons them in the cargo ship and sends it hurtling into space, claiming they will die.

On Medicus One, Garth, Imra and baby leave a grumpy Gym'll to spend some time with their families.

At Legion HQ, Jacques tells Chuck that he's off to repay his debt to Lyle Norg.

Rokk and the Subs try to control or escape the ship in which they're imprisoned; Stone Boy becomes morose as they hurtle away from Earth.

Jacques convinces Lyle to return to the dream dimension with him, as Chuck thinks about how complicated Legion life has become since he retired. A signal appears suddenly on the Monitor Board.

Rokk figures out how to make an escape pod of scrap metal and ice. He gets Polar Boy to maintain the ice shield while he uses magnetism to slow the ship and sends a flight ring signal, which his brother Pol detects and answers with a magnetic field, providing a direction home. They manage to connect with Pol and other Academy students in space, as Chuck looks on proudly from the Monitor Board.

Elsewhere (which we know is above Orando from LSH #3), Wildfire begins to feel strange and warns Dawnstar and Lar to stay away, then he vanishes.

Comments:
This story moves the founders further from active Legion involvement. Garth & Imra are doing the family thing and so is Rokk, in a way, as he pursues fireball smugglers and works with his girlfriend Lydda and her team.

It also brings the Academy students (and the Subs) into the picture as potential future Legionnaires, since comments have been made in previous issues about needing new members. However, it looks like new blood will come from the Academy alone. However, Rokk's comment to Brek that the Academy students were future Legionnaires struck me as a bit callous, implying that the Subs would never attain membership, despite the help they'd given him with the smuggling ring - and Polar Boy's particular help with the escape pod. Sadly, Brek looked totally wowed by the students himself.

Sometimes the combination of powers to defeat a villain or effect an escape pleasantly surprises me - and sometimes I'm just left scratching my head (no comments about fleas, please). The metal-ice escape pod was something that echoed the Adventure era's miraculous construction of space ships with things found lying around deserted planets. One interesting aspect of this incident, however, was the absence of a miracle save by Lar, Jo or Brainy; Rokk did have to work with the second-stringer team he had.

We do get a bit of forward movement on the Lyle Norg story. It, This slow movement forward does impart a sense of Lyle's depression and the turning point is nicely rendered in small silhouettes on a blank, white background. Lyle has never looked Jacques straight in the eye - until the final moment when they depart for the dream realm.

A tie-in to the LSH Orando/LSV story is accomplished without referencing any details of that story, by simply showing Wildfire, Dawnstar and Lar "elsewhere". I'm curious to see how future movement of characters between Tales and the LSH series will be handled.

[quote=

The first thing I noticed is that the Steve Lightle art is markedly different from Giffen's or even Shoemaker's. I didn't fully appreciate this at the time, but Lightle is like the Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez of the Legion: someone who is brought in to fill the shoes of a defining superstar artist and acquits himself rather well, though his style seems almost a "lite" (pun not intended) version of the original.

(Apologies to any Garcia-Lopez fans. It's been years since I've looked at his Titans run, so my conclusion may be off, but that's the impression that stays with me. To be fair, anybody would look subordinate following Perez.)

[/quote]

Until your parenthetical I assumed you were talking about JLGL and Curt Swan on Superman.

TotLoSH 316

It’s quite a Marvel cover, with its hyperbole at the bottom right. Interestingly the point of intersection is below the centre vertical of the cover. That means that the pic of the ship off on a mission takes up much more room as well as providing a backdrop to the logo. It’s not the costumes I notice, so much as the young expressions Shoemaker has captured.

We get Braalian magnetic effects. But they aren’t from Rokk, who’s on the cover. They’re form Pol. He, Laurel Kent and Grava are tagged as being the heroes. Rokk is holding onto Lydda as they and the subs are in the danger category.

The villain looks generic, but all four segments have a space backdrop, which is a connection they’d have in the story.

The cover is already promising the sort of behind the main team look at the 30th century Levitz was telling us about as the two books split.

Cosmic Boy with the Subs picks up nicely from page 5 of issue 3 of the Baxter book when Lydda contacts him to offer assistance.

It also picks up from Rokk’s spotlight issues, where his family were caught up in a fireballing attack. This explains why Rokk is pretty direct with the crooks here. He has a personal stake in this, and the Subs have been helping him out for a while. It’s a little wordy with Rokk telling the Subs something they already know, but it’s a shortened tale this month, so space is at a premium. It’s the Lydda and Rokk relationship that makes all this work. Cos isn’t barking orders. It isn’t the Legion as a superior team, as Lydda even jokes about it. The Subs are shown as being capable of dealing with the threat.

Well, nearly capable. The leader of the crooks escapes far enough to seal the heroes in a cargo ship and blast it into orbit. Rokk, had just been shown using his magnetic powers on a crook thrown at him by Lydda. But he doesn’t use his powers to draw the leader back in, or push him into anything. Likewise, Polar Boy doesn’t freeze the leader in his tracks. They just begin to chase the guy. In fairness, I think this is more to do with the art. The leader is a bit further way than the first panel of page 4 would suggest (going by the bottom of page 3). So a little bit of chasing was probably necessary.

The leader seems quite pleased with his accomplishments. I wonder if he’s going to look so smug at the end. I expect a few more utterances of “Scorfulus!”

We get a little interlude with Garth and Imra taking a leave of absence with their new baby (and giving us a plug for the annual). Gym’ll is his usual grumpy self.

A similarly quiet next scene is actually the start of the Lyle Norg subplot that’s been in the background for quite a while. I’ll deal with Cos and the subs first though


In near earth space, the heroes are having to go through some plot hoops to make them seem a bit more stranded. Cos, who can control machines through his magnetic powers of late, ahs to find out that the consoles are damaged beyond repair, thanks to the crook’s leader. Lydda can’t be seen to be using her super powers to save the group, so she’s conveniently knocked out by a booby trap. She recovers quickly enough, so she could have been used differently in finding a solution.

The four look at their gloomy prospects. Stone Boy, at this point the Sub who had been asked to join the main team, feels helpless. He actually goes into hibernation while they await rescue. Polar Boy dismisses him in an understated comic panel later on. Polar Boy keeps spirits up, even if it means shouting at someone to do it. He also reminds us of why the Subs were set up. Cos sees the pair as a little silly. This is a key theme going through the issue, which I’ll get back to.

After sending out a distress signal to HQ, Cos and Brek create a ball of ice and metal parts to escape the ship. At least they won’t be going any further in a ship with its engines still running. In a Subs-come-good moment, Cos singles Brek out as having been a great contribution to helping him with his plan, and getting them out of some of the danger. Brek’s happy to do his duty, but really pours it on when he gets some praise from a Legionnaire.

With Brek keeping their capsule intact, Cos not only slows them down, but sets up a magnetic field. Conveniently this is just the sort of field that his brother can detect, making their rescue just that little bit quicker.

Laurel Kent and Comet Queen are with Magnetic Kid as they bring the capsule in. Chuck is very proud of his students, Brek is very impressed while Cos tells him, in bold no less, that they are future Legionnaires.

The creative team do a really good job in creating peril from an unusual source, providing us with drama as they initially struggle with the threat before finally looking heroic in dealing with it.

But really, there’s not much threat at all. If Cos can blast a pod out of the shuttle, why couldn’t he rip the walls of it apart while they were still on Earth? Why not use Earth’s magnetic field is he needed to slow them all down? Why not get Lydda to use her powers with Rokk’s flight ring? The Subs were fighting in space during the GDS, so they have transuits. Heck, cover Stone Boy in metal parts and let Rokk use him to club the pod back to Earth One reason for caution was the lives of the other crooks, but they don’t get a mention.

By signalling HQ they were always going to be picked up whenever any of the other Legionnaires could spare some time. Yes, they are all off in the Baxter story, but we’ve seen Dawny, Drake and Lar blast across half the galaxy recently for Nura. We do see those three in this story, but only to have Drake mysteriously disappear. He talks about having goosepimples in his bodiless form. Now the last time he had a form links in with that Lyle Norg subplot.



Apart from Pol, the Academy students don’t really do anything. Grava can’t control comets and Laurel is only of use if the thing was going to hit them. They knew the signal was from Cos. The only thing to figure out, was how to stop the pod, and Pol was very handy for that task. Chuck has a habit of overegging their successes. In the spin off from v6 he was doing it even when one of them died. He can’t help but be the morale officer, in the face of realism.

Rokk had recently mentioned getting new blood into the Legion. This issue really reinforces that. Actually, it beats the reader about the head like they’d been struck by a Legion wedding stick. We see Garth and Imra on Leave. Chuck mentions his retirement. Chuck also says that the “team’s really shrinking”. There’s a suggestion that Jacques will be willing to give up being Invisible Kid. Added to that is the Academy spotlight, the mention of them being “future Legionnaires” and the disappearance of Wildfire. Not to mention all the Legionnaires being warped about in the Baxter book and Nura’s prophecy that one of them is going to die. That’s plenty of foundations for the storylines ahead.

Having mentioned Jacques, the parallel plot in this issue is Jacques refusing to let Lyle Norg sit in darkness any longer. We get a solid reason why Jacques wants to help Lyle. Through his serum, Jacques was able to defeat Computo and save his sister. It’s a shame that Chuck didn’t at least ask Jacques to give Lyle a “Hi” from the rest of the team. Lyle is still clearly depressed, but help is at hand, as Levitz has figured out where the plot is going to go! It’s going to go back to the mixed-up world where Jacques had previously encountered Lyle.

I’ll need to look back to see if it was firmly established if this Norg was definitely from the same place. Jacques seems to have no problems in activating his power to get to that realm. But all concerned are happy to just move this one forward. Lyle’s suspicious look when Jacques offers to return, means that it’s not going to go well. But it does undercut all the opportunities that Lyle had to interact with the Legion’s world to further his goals.

There are a few stand outs in this issue for me. Firstly, there’s the plotting. Levitz starts with a standard opening scene. He then gives it a twist and presents a credible threat to the team on the mission.

Chuck is used as the fulcrum of the book. He’s involved in reinforcing the new members subplot’ in receiving Rokk’s alarm, in interacting with Jacques on his subplot, and in directing the Academy to Rokk’s rescue. It’s all done quietly and emphasises Chuck’s personality perfectly.

The overlapping plot with Jacques and Lyle, connects not only with Chuck, but with the Baxter book as Drake is pulled away at the end of the story. We get the essence of the subs, for some of the story, and the bright future of the Academy. Brek’s reaction and Rokk’s response will have tis own pay off in a dozen or so Baxter issues time.

It’s one of those issues where the structure really appeals to me. The only improvement could have been to have Drake lead the Academy students just to tie his disappearance into both of the other plots in the book. But with his involvement in Baxter, that wasn’t going to happen.

The art gets the benefit of Giffen’s page designs, that he developed over his run, with the addition of Shoemaker’s lovely character work. As that also frees up a burnt out Giffen a bit, we get the best of everything. When looking for a replacement artist to Giffen on Tales, DC must have pinched themselves to get Shoemaker and Lightle as tryouts.

Rokk is very reminiscent of his previous spotlight issues. He is a mix of experience, coolness with an added edge when he’s fighting the crooks, or reaching out his magnetic field to signal his brother. The magnetic effects Giffen refined are also used to good effect here. While Lydda is written as a little clingy to Rokk (and as his super fan, she probably is), her power is evident early on as is her personality throughout. Both she and Brek are shown as having other options available to them, and both will be explored later on.

As I remember Garth and Imra during this whole period as wandering down corridors or on satellites (they are again this issue), I also remember it for vanishing Legionnaires. Wildfire here, lots through warps in Baxter and Dawnstar would also vanish in the not too distant future.

One last notable thing with this Legion issue, is that it was my first one. I had probably just about bought enough DC myself, to have convinced my dad that I was keen to read more of them. This one came from the bottom shelf of the newsagent closest to my home for the princely sum of 30p (75 cents). Not the base of the shelfing unit mind. That was where the B&W reprints lived. The shelf above that one was for your higher quality and higher priced full colour comics.

My first issue had very few Legionnaires in it, instead spotlighting the subs, the academy and a dead Legionnaire.

It took up a spot in the first case in my loft that I was given to hold comics. Crumbs, it was in the first side of the case, as you could get two rows of comics in it. That seemed like a huge amount of space at the time. Polar Boy, Stone Boy and Night Girl joined the same list of heroes I had noted down along with the Justice League members I was reading about, perhaps unaware of just how many characters were out there. That was going to change.

Did they ever capture the leader of the crooks? There seems to be a loose end that should have been tidied up.

316, "Meanwhile . . ." (first story)

The title of the story is apt, as it shows what some characters were doing while other characters were involved in the LSV War. It's always nice to see the Subs again and to get another glimpse into Rokk and Lydda's relationship. In hindsight, though, the only real value of the story (to me) is that it sets up the founders' departure and hints at Academy students becoming future Legionnaires (mostly a red herring, as it turned out). It's fun to spot these clues during re-reads, especially in light of how things turned out.

Like most "Tales" stories, this one starts out with a very good premise: While Cosmic Boy assists the Subs in stopping smugglers (a task which should be easy for all of them), something goes horribly wrong and the heroes are trapped in a damaged ship as it careens through space. Holy Apollo 13, Batman! However, Levitz never succeeds in making this a truly credible threat for Cos and the rest, for the reasons thoth noted in his post. I didn't think of all the ways Cos and Polar Boy could have prevented themselves from being trapped or rescued themselves once they were trapped, but I sensed something was off. The Subs outdo themselves in terms of incompetence, and Cos seems to have been hanging around them too much as the incompetence has rubbed off on him.

What stands out to me is how Stone Boy just shuts down, literally--this from the guy whose bravery earned him an invite to join the regular Legion. Also, Polar Boy demonstrates lack of leadership by yelling at Dag. Lydda doesn't contribute much except to snuggle up with Rokk and get injured in an explosion.

The whole idea behind the Subs was that they were heroes whose powers weren't good enough for the Legion, yet, through bravery and competence, they earned the right to be the Legion's backup team. It's through Giffen's recent reinterpretation that the Subs became comical boobs, and Levitz seems to have gone along with that characterization. It's sad, as it destroys their credibility. As a result, there isn't anybody in the story I identify or sympathize with. Cos remains cool and collected throughout, but we would expect nothing less from a Legionnaire. I would at least like to have been surprised or gotten to see a different side of his character. (It was nice to see how much pride he took in Pol and the other Academy students, though.)

The only character I did like, perversely, was the chief smuggler. He takes it as a personal affront and inconvenience that the heroes have interfered with his plans. In just a few words, he comes across as a businessman with a high sense of self-importance. He takes matter-of-fact pride in thinking he's killed a Legionnaire and three Subs--"a record of sorts, no doubt." Maybe the LSV should have come calling.

While Shoemaker's art is great, as always, I note how out of place Brek and Dag seem in their Silver Age costumes. The world has stood still for the Subs, due to their infrequent appearances, and they remain locked in the hero-worship personalities they've always had. Only Lydda has been allowed to grow and update. The other long-time Subs--Ulu, Staq, and Ral--don't even rate an appearance.

I wasn't aware of that run, Rob. Sorry for the confusion.

That's Rokk for ya: Mr. Sensitivity.



Good point. In a way, the Subs embody the spirit the Legion always had: the idea that any power, no matter how apparently useless (Bouncing Boy, Matter-Eater Lad) could be powerful if used with intelligence and creativity. Sadly, that aspect of the Legion seemed to have gotten lost in the age of powerhouses such as Wildfire, Dawnstar, and Blok.



It's a very good scene which shows Jacques' loyalty and sense of debt to this man he'd never met before the Dream Dimension side trip. Good observation about Lyle never looking Jacques in the eye.



I demand somebody start a new thread: "We Don't Say Scorfulus Anymore!"



Thanks for sharing, thoth. It's always a pleasure to read about a fan's first encounter with the Legion. You remember exactly what shelf you found the comic on and what you did with the issue afterwards. My own memories of my first Legion issue are equally vivid.

The founders’ transition works from a plot perspective, but I can use it as an example on how it shapes new reader perceptions of the team. Those three and Superboy took a back seat to the characters that I’d get to know first. Supergirl, rather than Superboy, is the Kryptonian I prefer in the Legion comes from that as well.

I don’t remember the Legion or the Subs actually capturing the people behind the fireballing. Now, that could be a different person entirely to the guy we saw trap them this issue. We’re given the perception that this is something the Subs have been working on for quite a while. It’s certainly close to Rokk’s heart. But were they brought to justice? Or is there a Lost Tale of the Legion starring Death Wish Krinn?



I was taken in by the Subs coming across as their own distinct organisation. It seemed that the Academy had the more direct line into the main team, with the Subs always being an auxiliary. Brek’s gosh-wow response really reinforced that.



It was nice to see lesser powers win the day. I guess that’s another Adventure era parallel



As if that had been his plan all along, rather than sitting around waiting for the writer.



Another herring is Brek being portrayed as in awe of students and their chances of being Legionnaires over his. There are enough hints-in-hindsight of Brek looking at things a bit differently after this issue. That, the students and the founders means that there are things going on, but in a more relaxed, shorter story. I’ve been enjoying the pacing of Tales along with that of Baxter. There’s been some world building going on that we might not have seen otherwise.




I moved this one up, as it’s a caveat for the next points. It would be a long time before I’d get to see just how effective the Subs were in their Adventure and later days. They made for a well trained outfit combining abilities in ways the main team could have learned from. But I didn’t know any of that, so…



I was quite happy reading along. It’s the focus on doing the reread that made all this stand out. Even then, it was only towards the end of typing I realised that they hadn’t caught the guy or solved the fireballing case.

I didn’t actually think that the Subs were incompetent. They captured all but one of the crooks, and got caught in a trap. Polar Boy did well helping Cos. Night Girl works well with Cos (although her role was limited on purpose. If she had been written as key to this one, there might have been a cry for her to join.) Stone Boy didn’t have a lot to do once the ship had taken off. But he’d live and not having an all powerful cast who can help in every situation is part of the charm. I didn’t take his crisis of confidence in a potential deadly situation as that terrible. He did come across as not very confident. But that layering was part of what Levitz was presumably trying to get across. In this story, Rokk is clearly the most accomplished. Brek works well under instruction and Lydda’s limited but a strong character. The Academy students have the skill but are raw.




I thought Cos came out of this looking pretty good. Shoemaker’s art showcased him very nicely. He’s not only a leader, but a determined, calm one who brings aboard the people with him (literally in the case of the escape pod )




Smuggler Lad!
Scorfulus Kid!



Could that also have been part of the setup? Polar Boy is frozen (ouch) in time, and the point of this story is that realisation with the effect of moving the character forward, for issues not too far away. Likewise, Lydda is moving forward, with Cos, to fill the Subs role. Stone Boy is, sadly, surplus to requirements. Having Blok on the team really saw to that. Is there a lost Tale where it’s a disgruntled Stone Boy, with out of control powers, that joins the Super Assassins only to betray them?

We all know that Ulu joins in time for the Adult Legion stories. Possibly brining his new motor with him.








Good point about the depth of Jacques character. He’s certainly more thoughtful than a lot of the rest of the team, with strongly held beliefs. He’s a good addition to the group.



Only an idio…never mind…



Even then, I don’t think this issue of the Legion caught my imagination. Rather, I was testing the water with the books I could get.

It’s early days for me with DC. Looking back, I got JLA 231 (Supergirl/ JSA crossover appearance), All-Star Squadron (Amazing Man 1st app against the Earth 2 Klan). I’d get Firestorm (Slipknot on the cover) very shortly afterwards.

I wouldn’t have got the books as they came out, so it’s a case of picking from what was left. No Baxter books were available and I’d not have access to any annuals either. But it’s a step up from the month before. I only got JLA 230 then.