Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Re-Reads (Now Reading: Swamp Thing: 1971 through 1985)

Hi everyone, I hope the reread is going well. I was wondering what your plans were (if any) for holiday reading?

I kind want to read some Will Eisner because it's Christmastime. I remembered reading some of The Spirit's Christmas stories and they were good.

Back in the 80s, when Mike W. Barr was writing "Batman & the Outsiders" (later simply "The Outsiders"), he made a point of doing a Christmas story every year. I think I'll read each one of those in chronological order.

I'd actually read Fantastic Four 257, "Fragments", about 2 months ago right after Thing 2 and before reading Annual 17. This was before we had decided to review the other two first. So I wrote up a review of those and sat on my thoughts for 257 for a while, a "while" became longer as my life went thru a bit of a busy spell and made it hard to concentrate for a companion review to Fick's version which eventually appeared. I decided not to read hers before finally doing this one so that mine wouldn't be just a response to hers. I especially wanted this particular issue to be reviewed this way because I thought it was just that extraordinary!

Particularly, the Galactus half of 257 was simply amazing! In a move that may have been unprecedented at the time, Byrne spends over half of the books page count telling a Galactus story outside the context of a battle with the FF or any of the other Marvel heroes. The result, I think, is amazing.

I think the first thing that inspired awe in me for simply the brilliance of the idea was Byrne having Galactus converse with none other than Death herself! The revelation that these two cosmic entities have a familiarity, even a relationship, is both awesome and ingenious because it makes you think "of course!" In a way, just as a relative might give someone encouragement as one is feeling low, Death reminds a morally-conflicted Galactus that what he does serves a greater purpose. This emboldens Galactus and gives him the resolve he needs to continue his singularly devastating work.

His story then transitions to Nova leading him to his next target, none other than the Skrull Throne-world! Byrne shows us the Skrulls reacting and attempting to resist over a few pages, but their resistance is ultimately futile. Then, perhaps for the very first time (?), we finally see Galactus do what Galactus does and to an inhabited planet that is significant to the Marvel universe. It happens quickly, and those panels of Galactus sinking into the planet are particularly chilling. I feel that Byrne did with his pencils and the standard colors and effects of his era what today's artists would rely on computer coloring and special effects to convey and still not do be half as effective as what Byrne did in these pages. Simply awesome!

(If I have any caveat with the depiction of what Galactus does, it's that it seemingly contradicts the longer process that seemed to be entailed when Galactus attempted to consume Earth in his Lee/Kirby debut. To that, I tend to think Byrne simply shows us a condensed version of the act.)

The rest of the story is a relatively quiet one for the FF as they try to return to normalcy after the events of the great Negative Zone story. The most significant detail is that Sue is now pregnant with her and Reed's second child, who was conceived while they were in the Negative Zone. And her and Reed will attempt to raise both children in a normal neighborhood while remaining with the FF. But we are left with a cliffhanger (which the "next issue" box proclaims will NOT be addressed next issue) as Reed vanishes while checking in on the ailing Vision at Avengers Mansion.

Overall, this issue is a real feather in Byrne's cap for his run as it nears its midpoint. The Galactus pages alone are instant classics in my mind. They just show that Byrne was not only already a masterful artist but that his skills and confidence as a writer had definitely grown to match. Having Galactus converse with Death was innovative, exciting and wonderfully executed. But then to show Galactus finally doing what he's known for and to a significant race in the Marvel Universe makes those 12 pages possibly the most important and defining moments for the character since his debut. Honestly, the FF pages in the issue can't help but feel anti-climactic in their wake, but this is still altogether one of the best single issues in Byrne's run to date!

Beautifully put, Lardy. And I think it's a pity that no other Marvel creators that I'm aware chose to explore this relationship further, or, for that matter, to portray Death as anything other than her default role as a silent cipher (albeit a visually striking one.)



Agreed to the max!!



The only subsequent Galactus portrayal that even comes close to equaling this one in my estimation, is when he guest-starred in Excalibur #61, written & drawn by Alan Davis, and was attacked by Phoenix (Rachel Summers), with dire consequences. Much as I love almost every issue from Davis's writer/artist Excalibur run, that one remains the standout to me.



I admit I might be wrong, but it sounds to me like I may have liked the FF sequences a little better than you did. I give Byrne credit for not trying to top the first portion of the issue, and instead doing a near-180 degree turn, quite unconventional for an early-mid 80s Marvel comic, as most of their comics at the time tended to be very traditionally structured.

Either way, I'm very happy that both of us loved this issue overall.

Since making that post, I've read all three of them (turns out I don't own the fourth and last Outsiders Christmas story, as I still have a few gaps to fill in with the Baxter issues.)

And while I was always have nostalgic rose-colored visions of, and a huge sentimental spot in my heart for, the original Outsiders/BATO (particularly the first two dozen or so newsstand issues) I now find that reading these three issues, each one published a year after the one before, testifies to the gradual decline of the series during its relatively short run.

BATO #8: The first, and, easily, the best of the bunch. If anything, the Outsiders had quickly stumbled after getting off to a great start with the 16-page preview in The Brave & the Bold #200, followed by the opening 2-part arc about the formation of the team. This issue is where Barr and editor Len Wein found their second wind, which would carry the series for about another year-and-a-half of consistent goodness.

The story guest-stars the Phantom Stranger, a favorite of both Barr (who went on to write one of the quartet of possible PS origins in one of the best issues of "Secret Origins"), and Wein (who'd written some of the better PS solo stories, and made him an honorary Justice Leaguer during his mostly excellent run as JLA writer.) If anything, the story often threatens to turn Batman & his team into guest-stars in their own book, especially when the villain reveals himself. But Barr has always had a flair for refreshingly understated character interactions, and while the A-plot is solid enough, and the happy ending feels to me more well-earned than forced, it's the warm, affectionate character touches -- Halo's amnesiac melancholy leading to her making a terrible faux pas with her adopted-mother figure, Katana; Metamorpho trying to reach his sweetheart Sapphire Stagg by telephone, only to have her father, Simon, intercept the call, leaving Rex heartbroken; Geo-Force finding that the long-distance phone lines connecting the U.S. to his homeland of Markovia are down at the worst possible time -- that really make not only this issue, but personify everything that was best about this series.

Hmmm...these reviews are taking longer than I thought, and I have a chatroom appointment in less than half-an-hour. I'll have to finish my Re-Reads posts within the next couple days.

Sorry, Lardy and Emily.

And I never got around to reviewing the other Christmas issues of Outsiders. Sigh.

BUT...I am at work right now on my review-slash-overview of FF #258-262, plus Alpha Flight #4, and will have it all ready to post within the next hour.

I had read the Doom issue a month or two ago before the re-read hit its current lull. I read the rest of the story tonight. I decided to skip AF #4 for two reasons: 1) I will be purchasing the John Byrne/Alpha Flight Omnibus this week, and that story's obviously included. 2) Though the story picks up on 260's Sub-Mariner intro and cliffhanger, the story itself is very much an AF story and only peripherally a FF story.

Then it's clearly a blessing in disguise that I ended up nodding off last night instead of getting to my computer, so that I didn't end up spoiling AF #4 for you (quick digression -- I am VERY looking forward to discussing AF with you as you work your way through the AF Omnibus. )

Now, then...

FF #257-262

I already reviewed 257 in full several posts ago, so I've chosen to just say here that it gets this story-arc off to a spectacular start, with as much heart & soul as grandeur & scope.

258 is a Doctor Doom solo spotlight issue in which the FF don't appear, and while Byrne does an effective job of showing the many facets of Doom (even getting in a pointed meta-jab at ex-collaborator Claremont's portrayal of Doom in one of his less-impressive X-Men stories) and setting up the big battle to come next issue between the FF and a re-animated Tyros/Terrax...it's well, it's hard for me not to read the scenes with Doom's adopted son and heir, Kristoff, without thinking of the utter mess that this character's subplot turned into after Byrne left FF before he could resolve it (to Simonson's credit, I think he did as good a job of wrapping it up quickly and cleanly during his FF run.) Overall, though, a solid issue.

259-260, though they both boast typically well-drawn action sequences from Byrne of the promised battle, really comes up short plot-wise IMHO. I mean, even Doom himself admits that his decision to intervene in the battle, and ending up with his body destroyed and his consciousness in another man's body, is a "stupid" decision.

And 261-262, despite rose-colored memories of being awed by both art & story back when I was a less-jaded, less-analytical 18-year-old, suffers to my mind from the same problem as the Doom/Tyros issues -- incredible set-up (261 is, overall, an excellent issue on its own), Byrne once again throws a wrench into his own story mechanics! This time, it comes in the form of Byrne writing himself into his own story. Now, Stan & Jack did this more than once back in the Silver Age, but when Byrne does it, the impression I get is one of gross self-indulgence that is so gratuitous it takes me out of the story. Which is a pity, as Byrne's art may very well be the very best of his entire FF run, with all the alien lifeforms and outer-space vistas, and cosmic goodness. After having turned over the whole thing in my head since last night, all I could come up with for what might have been the point of Byrne's unintentional self-sabotage is that he merely thought it would be amusing. In my view, this kind of third-rate meta-stuff does not mix with the serious cosmic-existential explorations.

And so, what I had thought would be the perfect high to begin our Byrne FF Re-Read hiatus on, turns out instead to be wonky and off-key, at least in my opinion.

When we resume the re-read, most likely sometime this coming month of May, we'll see whether Byrne gets back on track with the second half of his FF run.

To try to wrap things up on a positive note, I will say that, for all the ups & downs of this run's first half, Byrne does deserve full credit for re-inventing the FF to suit a time very different than the one the FF originated in, and that his FF stories generally hold up much better than Stan & Jack's. And Byrne did it with respect and reverence for the originators, without coming across as the kind of sterile, soft-edged, bloodless nostalgia that often results from creators attempting this sort of soft-boot approach.

AND, in addition to that, I'm happy to say that I will be extending my reappraisal of Byrne's oeuvre by diving into his late-90s take on Kirby's DC creations, in the appropriately titled series "Jack Kirby's Fourth World", which I will actually be reading for THE FIRST TIME EV-AH!

Finally, here is my revised list of Top 5 Byrne FF stories as of issue 262:

1) Negative Zone/Annihilus Saga (FF 251-256, Avengers 233)
2) 20th Anniversary/Liddleville (FF 236)
3) Gladiator/Man and Super-Man (FF 249-250)
4) FF vs. Ego (FF 235)
5) Galactus/Doom/Trial of RR (FF 257-262)

Note that, despite the creative blunders I noted above, the arc taking place in 257-262 still juuuust edges the Galactus/Nova/Terrax story off the list, and I have also reconsidered the placement of the Top 2, feeling that even though the Liddleville issue wins out in terms of warmth and full-blooded characterization, the Negative Zone Saga is really what the FF are all about, and I think it's far less seriously flawed than the Trial of Reed Richards/Trial of Galactus arc.

OK, Lardy, the floor's all yours now.

(And thanks again for being so patient with me.)

I'll add my thoughts probably tomorrow night....

Great. Something else else to look forward to.

Like Fick, I did a review of FF 257 a few posts ago. It was a glowing review of what has certainly been one of the very best single issues of Byrne's run on the book. But issue 257 is undeniably the start of another ambitious arc that continues thru issue 262 which effectively comprises the middle of Byrne's run as writer/artist on the book.

It's an interesting arc which brings a few plotlines to a head: the ongoing Dr. Doom story, the return of Terrax/Tyros and the recent developments with Galactus and his new herald.

Issue 258, "Interlude", picks up the Doom and Terrax plots in what at the time was probably a first, an entirely Doom-focused issue of the FF. As promised in the teaser for it in 257, there are no appearances by the FF at all. To me, even by Byrne's standards, it's an exceptionally well-rendered issue. Exhibit A is the gourgeous double-splash rendering of the city of Doomstadt as Doom's subjects repair damages left in the wake of the usurper Sorba's overthrow. I think Byrne was genuinely excited about the issue and its subject, based on the exceptional art. Ultimately, the story's function is to set up the next two issues (in addition to the Kristoff subplot that will bear fruit a little later on), so it's not as insightful into Doom as it could have been--but there are some nice moments. Certainly, a worthwhile issue.

Issues 259-260, "Choices" & "When Titans Clash!", feature the culmination of Doom's plot utilizing Terrax. Having learned how to cosmically re-empower the former Herald in 258, Doom sics Terrax on the FF, who are minus the still-missing Reed Richards. (In fact, no one knows he's even missing yet.) It's a fairly standard high-stakes clash involving a character (Terrax) that Byrne seems fond of using, probably because he co-created Terrax during his proto-run on the book with Marv Wolfman.

Byrne uses the two issues to bring in two FF mainstay guests that he had yet to use to this point in his run, the Silver Surfer and Namor. The Surfer plays a crucial role in the battle, while Namor serves to bring Sue into a cross-over with Byrne's other then-concurrent ongoing book, Alpha Flight. Byrne renders both of them in ways that are very consistent with Kirby's original designs. I think, though, that Byrne's Namor is particularly memorable. (I suspect Byrne enjoys the character as Byrne would later launch a Namor ongoing.)

The most interesting subplot in the issues is Sue setting up the family's new secret identities and home in a suburb in Connecticut. I can't remember how long this lasted before it was discarded (probably within Byrne's own run), but it feels like Byrne intended to stick with it for longer than it actually lasted.

My favorite moments in these 2 issues occur when Sue is briefly detained in Doom's ship. It shows how much stronger a character Byrne has made her as she stands up to Doom when the old Silver Age Sue might have cowered and waited for rescue. She speaks to Doom with authority, and you believe her when she threatens, "Do I have to come after you? Do I have to take this whole ship apart to find you?" I love how she derides his manhood for constantly hiding behind his Doombots, as well.

Another great moment occurs when Doom realizes Reed isn't going to show up. His ego just can't let the other three die unless Reed is there to witness it, so he attempts to intervene and prevent Terrax from following thru. It's just classic Doom in a way that shows Byrne knows the character very well, though it's flawed in that Doom would have been better prepared.

The 2-parter ends with apparent finality for both Doom and Terrax. Doom's armor is fused by a vengeful Terrax and left helpless, and he is later apparently killed during Surfer and Terrax's epic battle. And Terrax himself is apparently obliterated when his artificial empowerment backfires as Doom had predicted.

I remember hearing about this supposed "death of Dr. Doom" when it happened. Being in my tender and unjaded early teens, I thought this was it for the classic villain. And THEN he shows up unscathed in Secret Wars a few months later.... :rolleyes:

So ultimately, it's a big, spectacle-filled battle with some dramatic moments, but in the end, not all that consequential. I think even Terrax eventually returned.

Finally, the arc ends in issues 261 and 262 ("The Search for/Trial of Reed Richards"), as the FF finally discover what happened to read and how to find him with some help from the Surfer and Uatu the Watcher. In what I think is an excellent story progression, Reed's saving Galactus back in FF 244 coupled with Galactus subsequently reaping the Skrull homeworld has landed Reed in hot water. We and the FF learn that a consortium of the survivors of worlds Galactus, represented by Shi'ar Majestrix Lilandra, are holding Reed responsible for not letting Glactus die. They want to execute Reed outright, but the Watcher convinces them that Reed deserves a fair trial.

It's a dramatic and brilliant idea by Byrne that comes up just a bit shy in its execution. As Fick mentions, the conceit of Byrne writing himself into the story really detracts from what he's trying to do. While the set-up is consistent with the established MU cheat that Marvel Comics exists in its own fictional universe and that the heroes share their adventures with the creators to be chronicled in their books, it seems too big a moment for that kind of meta appearance.

I don't know if this was all Byrne's idea. You see, this issue was published during Marvel's infamous "Assistant Editors' Month", which was generally characterized by most of that month's books having goofy, gimmicky stories. The Avengers isse had tham as guests on Late Night with David Letterman. Fred Hembeck drew Spectacular Spider-Man. Aunt May and Franklin Richards faced Galactus in Marvel Team-Up. So maybe Byrne wouldn't have been in the story if it hadn't fallen within that month? I'm not totally sure, but the scenes with Byrne and his editor seem like they might be evidence for it.

Anyhow, it is what it is. I'd have preferred Byrne not have been in the story because it took me out of it to a degree, but it didn't exactly ruin it.

All in all, the trial did a pretty decent job of exploring the moral ambiguities of whether or not Reed should have let Galactus die while broaching the idea that Galactus serves a larger purpose doing what he does. As you might expect, neither has a definitive answer stated plainly, but Reed is aquitted and those present receive some clarity thru the intervention of Eternity. Together with some great cosmic spectacle, a memorable appearance by Odin (Byrne's rendition is stunning and powerful) and some inspired Byrne designs, it mostly overcomes Byrne's self indulgence.

Overall, a very fine arc and one worthy of a ranking on my big board:

1) Negative Zone/Annihilus Saga (FF 251-256, Avengers 233)
2) Galactus/Doom/Trial of Reed Richards (FF 257-262)
3) 20th Anniversary/Liddleville (FF 236)
4) Terrax/Nova/Galactus (FF 242-244)
5) "Legacy" (FF Annual 17)
6) FF vs. Ego (FF 235)

I had previously ranked 242-244 higher than 236. Upon further reflection, I decided to move it below that issue. But, flaws and all, I had to rank 257-262 second on my board. I mean, 257 was one of the best individual issues of the run. 258 was a Doom solo issue. 259-260 featured an epic fight with some great Sue moments. And 261-262 was such a brilliant idea with one regrettable story choice. I really like what Byrne had done with Galactus and bringing some ambiguity to his story. Yes, I know he was never just a villain, but Byrne found ways to make him both more frightening while also being pitiable than what we had seen before. Brilliant, memorable stuff even with the caveats.

Agreed 100%, especially about the Doomstadt panorama.



I get the impression you are more forgiving of said flaw than I am. It felt to me like Byrne had written himself into a corner with this plot thread, with Doom's plan so foolproof that Byrne forced himself to turn the villain stupid (as I noted in my review, those were Doom's own words to describe his hasty change of plans after it had screwed everything up for him.)

This has all gotten me wondering, have there ever been any What If stories where Doom actually wins? The potential for a memorably dark tale, yet one with at least some heart, seems awesome to me.



Well, yes, but it was during the Fabian Nicieza/Mark Bagley era of New Warriors, so IMHO Terrax's return made for a couple of very worthwhile stories.



I think that's a good point, but there's one thing that makes me doubt that Byrne and/or Marvel-Editorial deliberately contrived a goofy element to bring the issue in line with Assistant Editors Month -- namely, that month's issue of Thor (339 or 340, I can't remember for sure ATM), which was surprisingly and bold and different while still being awesome rather than goofy (it's the one where Odin gives Beta Ray Bill his own hammer, and powers equal to Thor's.)



When you put it that way...perhaps I was a little too critical in a knee-jerk way. I'll see how I feel the next time I re-read that arc.

So, Lardy, are you planning to post your thoughts on the Alpha Flight Omnibus in this same thread during our hiatus from FF? (I hope, I hope...)

Not necessarily. Though I'm buying it this week, specifically because it's on sale for half off, that doesn't mean I'll read it very soon. I'm pretty whimsical with my reading, part of the perk of having so many books in my Pile. It might count against it being read soon that I've read a lot of Byrne FF over the past few months and will resume doing so when the re-read resumes. But then again, I might just say, "why not?", and get on with it! Who knows?

I'm starting a new major reading project of Bronze Age Marvel. In order to avoid the project creep that derails most of my big projects, I'm limiting it to books that I have never read significant runs of. So far, I'm including: Luke Cage and Iron Fist both before and after they merged, Englehart's Dr. Strange, Master of Kung-Fu, Gerber's Man-Thing, Starlin's Warlock and Captain Marvel. Also, since I never finished Englehart's Captain America, I am adding it in from the point I left off. That should get me through to the mid-70s, and I'll consider adding other books case-by-case basis as it moves along. So far I've read the first couple of issues of both Hero for Hire and Dr. Strange, although I'm not to the Englehart bit yet. Thoroughly enjoyable but not fantastic BA stuff, but it's really just the groundwork for the stuff I'm looking forward to.

Some great stuff there, BF.

The Englehart/Brunner Dr. Strange is my favorite run on the good doctor.

The Doug Moench/Paul Gulacy MoKF is awesome. When Gulacy leaves after 50, it takes about 25-30 issues until Gene Day comes aboard, first inking Mike Zeck and then doing the whole art himself. If not for Moench's clashing with Jim Shooter, he & Day might have scaled the same heights as the Gulacy era, but even so, it's rarely less than good.

I consider Starlin's Mar-Vell vs Thanos epic to be the most satisfying thing he ever did.

The Jo Duffy/Kerry Gammill run on Power Man & Iron Fist is not only one of my favorite things Marvel did during the late 70s/early 80s, it's also, quite honestly, the only time I've ever liked either character.

Hey all, long time no type. I decided I can't let WoW eat ALL of my online life, so I figured I would head back here to make a post. I've started another major re-read that will probably supplant my BA Marvel for a bit, although I hope eventually they will co-exist.

It occurred to me that I missed an opportunity last year to do a 30-year anniversary real-time reread of post-Crisis DC. So I've decided to spend the rest of this year zipping through what I've missed already, so that starting in January 2018 I can read each week's books on a 30 year delay. The slower pace will hopefully make it easier to keep up with, make room for some lesser things I wouldn't normally reread (or read for the first time), and give me a little nostalgia boost as it gives me a greater sense of being at a certain point in the narrative of the DCU, reliving it along with the characters. Once I start getting caught up, I hope to work my BA Marvel stuff back into the mix. I started with Green Lantern Corps #201, I believe the first "clean relaunch" of a book. I decided to ignore any books that were a continuation of the pre-Crisis runs. Even things like Levitz's LSH, that had a long and successful post-Crisis tail.

Fortunately for the purpose of this project, Marvel was in a bit of a slump 30 years ago as the Shooter era imploded. Ignoring long-time runs I'm not going to follow, the only new things at this point I'm really interested in re/reading are PAD's Hulk and Englehart's Silver Surfer. They are young enough that I was able to catch up easily, and two days ago (30th anniversary of new comics days is falling on Fridays right now) I was able to read the latest issues of both in perfect sync.

Naturally the whole point of this is that it will take years, and it may well be too ambitious to succeed, although the fact that I haven't set an eye on an endpoint goal makes "successful completion" a bit of a nebulous concept. I'll see how it goes.

Green Lantern 201. Back when having so many Lanterns on Earth seemed like an unwieldy novelty. Obviously Johns must have been a huge fan.

My Bronze Age reread went off the rails again, so I decided to rework it from first principles. The point was to read things on a 40 year to the week delay in anticipation of my 40th anniversary as a superhero comics reader next year, but I always got bogged down trying to binge the parts of runs that came out more than 40 years ago. I decided to just give up on that, and I am going to just start reading on schedule, accepting that I'm missing the parts of runs that came before. The most continuity-heavy books, like X-Men, I'm pretty conversant with anyway.

Also, I decided on a different approach that eliminates the need to decide which books get included and which don't. Since I'm using Mike's Amazing World to assemble my list, and the search results include covers, I'm going to treat that like the newsstand rack, and each week I will just decide which books I want to read. Some may get picked every time they show up, others only occasionally. In addition to making it even more of an homage to my childhood, it lets me adjust on the fly to how much time/energy I have any given week, and hopefully when I have a slow or non-reading week, instead of feeling intimidated by backlog, it will be easier to just let it go and skip some comics.

If anyone's curious, the books I picked for this "week" (the new week will actually start tomorrow) are:

Avengers #167 (Perez! Original recipe GotG!)
Black Panther #7 (Kirby!)
The Champions #17
The Defenders #55 (Aw, my foot dragging cost me the Scorpio Saga and Giffen)
The Man Called Nova #17 (Yellow Claw, yikes)
Superman Family #187

And the books that came out 40 years ago tomorrow: (actually, for some reason books shipped twice a week back then, so some of these won't have anniversaries until a few days from now.)

Marvel Team-Up #65 (Captain Britain)
Adventure Comics #455 (Superboy returns to Adventure)
Captain Marvel #54 (Nitro - the man who killed Captain Marvel, eventually)
Fantastic Four #190 (Clip Show/exposition issue)
Green Lantern/Green Arrow #100
Brave and the Bold #139 (Hawkman)
Secret Society of Super-Villains #12

I think the time is right for me to resume and conclude my re-read of Byrne's FF run. I've been itching for some Byrne lately, and it doesn't feel right to revisit She-Hulk, Alpha Flight or Wonder Woman while leaving the FF unfinished.

So sometime in March, I will pick up with FF 263 and continue thru the end around 295. If Fick or anyone else wants to do so as well, that will be great. If not, well, I'm less likely to give the detailed reviews I wrote for the earlier issues. But we'll see.

Looking forward to seeing how these stories stack up to my memories of them!

Lardy, since I was visiting LW anyway, I just thought I'd reconfirm what I told you on FB -- I'm definitely in for the continuation of the Byrne FF re-read.

So brace yourselves for more NSFW, non-kid friendly jokes about Reed and Susan, Legion Worlders!

Always in spoiler boxes with warnings, of course.

Byrne had some neat 'done in one' stories, like the one where he (after decades of her just being a name that Ben shouted) introduced us to 'Aunt Petunia,' who turned out to be a young woman and not the 'Aunt May' that I had pictured in my head.

Yep, Set--we reviewed and commented on that story somewhere earlier in this very thread!

And...it begins again!

FANTASTIC FOUR #263-264

I'm happy to say I quite enjoyed the 2-part story in these issues! I did find that the only thing I remembered about it since the last time I read it was the cover to 264, which is not only one of my favorite FF covers of all time, but also my favorite of the many homages to the cover of FF v.1 #1 by various artists over the decades.

https://goo.gl/images/6dsavn

But that just made this re-read all the sweeter, not just rediscovering the pleasures in the clever twists and turns of Byrne's scripts, but also the sheer magnificence of Byrne in his pictorial prime -- the car race gone horribly wrong is both spectacular and blood-curdling, and there is just no escaping the irony that the real villain turns out to be an utterly ruthless and amoral media mogul who pursues his lust for power at any cost. If anything, it anticipates Grant Morrison's & Cameron Stewart's underrated (and, sadly, still only 2/3 completed) "Seaguy" by 2 whole decades! Good show, Byrne! More bittersweet is the use of Disneyesque iconography, given that Marvel ended up being bought by Disney.

This story is mainly a showcase for Ben, which is fine by me, as he's always been my favorite FF member. The Reed and Susan subplot about them assimilating into the suburbs while Susan begins experiencing difficulties with her second pregnancy is...well...more interesting for what might have come of it than what actually came of it before Byrne walked away from this series. Without spoiling any of the things I remember which lie ahead in future issues, I'll just say that Reed using his elastic powers to re-shape his own face is profoundly disturbing to me, for reasons that even I don't quite understand. This could have led to an exploration of Reed's shadow-self, but I don't recall it ever happening during Byrne's FF tenure. A real wasted opportunity, in my humble opinion.

Still, I took away a lot more positive than negative from these two issues, and I think overall it's a nice way to get the re-reading rolling again.

Reading FF 263 & 264 was like returning to your favorite comfort food after going without for way too long. While the story they comprise won't challenge the big list of the best Byrne FF stories from the beginning of this re-read, the craft Byrne shows therein in what is one of the less important small stories within his run is still commendable.

As Ann mentions, this 3 -parter is Thing-centric. I think this is an especially good choice because this is the last story in Byrne's run in which Ben is still a member of the FF. Starting in the next issue, the FF will have what I feel is its best-ever replacement member. And while I look forward to experiencing once again Byrne begin to mold this formerly C-list character into an A-lister, it's still sad to know that we are about to say goodbye to Byrne's excellent take on Ben Grimm (as a regular) as his run on the book transitions to its second half.

The story idea is pretty standard: rich, delusional man has a tremendously flawed plan to "save" the world that our heroes have to stop. There are some twists to the idea, including some that Ann alludes to, but that's essentially the story. 263 sets all this up with a bit of mystery set up by Johnny's apparent death in a car crash. By the end of that issue, we learn the crash was a ruse in order for the rich guy to use Johnny's powers to alter the earth's crust. Ben doesn't buy it, and he plays detective and tracks Johnny to the guy's private island. Turns out, the efforts to use Johnny's powers to terra-form bring these actions to the attention of...the Mole Man!

264's part two is the really fun pay-off to the story that makes it really memorable for me. Basically, Mole Man teams up with Ben and the Torch to foil the really destructive plan. And this issue has three very memorable moments within it for me: one is a fantastic splash page, another is a (probably unintentionally) hilarious moment and the third is one that made me cheer.

The splash I love is the opening splash of the issue. It's a headshot of the Mole Man himself that I thought was exceptionally well-rendered. While I'm sure most people would never think they'd want such a shot of what is, let's face it, not an attractive character, I think it's a great example of Byrne's artistry. The lines on that splash are just perfect in their expressiveness and attention to detail. Once again, Byrne makes a classic FF character his own!

The moment that made me giggle so much that I had to explain it to my wife occurs over the next few pages after the splash. The Thing, having fallen into the Mole Man's clutches at the end of 263, is being carried of by the moloids. Mole Man is telling his minions to be careful not to drop their captive, lest he fall prematurely into the lava. They bring him to an execution slab while Mole Man tells the helpless Ben how the terra-forming plot has ruined his underworld domain since the FF last saw him. While Ben tries to explain that the FF didn't cause his woes, we see the moloids up on higher ground preparing to roll a huge boulder into a groove which will roll down and smash Ben into the lava! I don't think it was meant to be funny by Byrne, but I enjoyed the absurdity of a death trap meant to painfully slam our hero into lava when they could have just dumped him over the bridge moments earlier! Ben manages to talk his way out of the trap, but I love that comics could still be absurd back in the Bronze Age in their innocence and earnestness. Comics are rarely this fun anymore without having to try super-hard!

The big cheer-worthy moment comes when the Mole Man's huge green monster from FF 1 makes a triumphant reappearance and has a big hero moment to smash thru the bad guy's impenetrable big door. Yes, the monster's arrival is spoiled by the issues FF 1 cover homage, but the moment is still great fun!

The only let-down to the story is that it turns out that the action really has little bearing on the outcome. The resolution makes it clear that the danger to Earth was never as great as it appeared to be. So what we have is a fun, very entertaining romp but mostly a throwaway kind of adventure. In hindsight, the latest in Byrne's "Twilight Zone"-style series of FF tales but one with considerable entertainment value compared to most of the others of its ilk. All in all, I'll definitely take it!

It should be mentioned that Reed and Sue do appear and serve entirely as subplots without connection to Ben and Johnny's story. We catch up with their suburban living situation, see Reed check up on the Vision and investigate readings that will end up bringing the FF into the Secret Wars portal while we see that something's up with Sue's pregnancy. While I can see how Ann finds Reed's method of disguise unnerving, I'm always glad to see Byrne expand on the FF's abilities in ways we may not have seen before.

So, while this won't make "the list", I am beyond pleased to finally be continuing one of the all-time best runs by the artist who has always been my personal favorite! Bring on the rest!!!!

Beautifully put, Lardy.




A fitting send-off to one of Marvel's greatest icons.




Yes, that sequence is wonderfully unself-conscious in its over-the-top absurdity. It's not trying to be ironic. It's not trying to be clever. It's just trying to entertain the reader and give her or him their money's worth. Oh, if only superhero comics could be that unpretentious again! And, of course, there have been a few over the years that have been just that. I only wish it was more than just a few.




Agreed 100%.




My sentiments exactly.