Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion Planet Locations

I have looked throughout the website proper and wiki, and even DC's website, and I can't seem to find any maps. I know the Legion is not the best well-known property; but I assumed for the Green Lantern books there would be something that showed where the important planets are in the Milky Way. All I need is a basic map in Star Trek style with the planets labelled; if anyone has one or knows of a book please let me know. I don't want to use my own judgment for fan-fiction if there is an actual source.

There were maps in the Mayfair Games Legion Sourcebooks from the late 80s/early 90s.

The original Legion Worlds miniseries had coordinates for the planets featured in it.

There's probably more.

Here's the one from the 2995 Sourcebook, written by the Beirbaums

Thank you, thoth lad. As I suspected, The United Planets lines up pretty well with Star Trek's Federation Space. The only glaring admission is Earth's location on the meridian, but I assume it was destroyed because of the "New Earth" listed. I think I'll just have a question and answer session to address differences between official maps and my Earth-S fan fiction.

It's weird that there are UP planets placed after the galactic wall, unless that is supposed to represent another galaxy.

Do you mean like 24. Altair-5? If it's related to our Altair, then it would be fairly nearby. Possibly it's indicating a denser part of the stellar cloud?

(A quick peek shows that to have been the one the tetrahedral aliens in Adventure 308 were from. They were selling stolen living paintings from Thar on the Thieves Planet!)

Is Bgytzl in another dimension? If so, does it occupy the same space as Earth? My perspective of Bgytzl is the Threeboot one in which they occupied space parallel to each other.

RPG Legion Book says that Bgtzl is "an other dimensional world separated from Earth's universe by a vibrational barrier. Although some chronicles have identified Bgtzl as occupying a space parallel to Earth's in another dimension, it is not an alternate universe and was not destroyed in CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS."

Crisis, sorry CRISIS, was recent enough to the writing of the sourcebook that it was still in capitals .

I'm not sure that makes much sense, though, and shows just how inconsistent DC was over the years with alternate Earths, etc.

Originally, the idea of Earth-1, Earth-2, et al., was that they literally occupied the same space but were made of matter that "vibrated at different rates". This is how the Flashes were able to travel between Earths, via their control over their vibrational frequencies.

Bgztl, however, was in "the fourth-dimension", in a three-space parallel to our own. That's how Phantom Girl's power was supposed to work, being rooted in a whole tradition of late nineteenth/early twentieth century literature that used multi-dimensional geometry as a an explanation for supposed spiritual phenomena such as ghosts. (See also the Phantom Zone, which is apparently based in the same tradition). Tinya doesn't technically pass "through" objects, she passes "around" them by moving in the fourth dimension.

So, it seems like things should work just the opposite of what the RPG suggests.

How early in Barry Allen's original Flash run were the alternate Earths established? I thought Legion pre-dated Barry Allen, but a quick search says he debuted in 1956. Regardless, I can see how later writers would consider Bgytzl an alternate Earth, as the Bgytzlians look human. However, Who's Who letter columns from 1985 confirm that Bgytzl is not an alternate earth.

Has anything been revealed about other planets in Bgytzl's dimension?

Flash of Two-Worlds was 1961.

Pretty sure Superman and Wonder Woman (and maybe even Batman) had met "alternate Earth" versions of themselves prior to that.

A little googling suggests that Wonder Woman #59 (May 1953) features her visiting an alternate Earth for the first time.

Of course, visiting worlds in "other dimensions" was a pretty common trope going back to the Golden Age. Bgztl is conceptually very similar to Mister Mxyzptlk's homeworld of Zrfff, except for the latter existing in the "fifth dimension" rather than the "fourth". I've often suspected the lack of vowels was meant to establish a connection between them.

I'd love to explore the concept of a 4-dimensional Tinya and Bgtzl, but she's never really been portrayed that way.

If she was 4 dimensional and not just 'intangible' like Kitty Pryde, she would indeed 'go around' obstacles in the fourth dimension and never be shown phasing through things.

There's also the question of whether or not three dimensional solids are less solid to four dimensional folk (the way tissue paper is 'less solid' than bricks), and a four-dimensional person would be able to tear through 3D matter and barriers with ease, creating the semblance of vast super-human strength. I vaguely recall a DC character named '4D' with that sort of power.



Tinya's been basically 'Kitty Pryde' for five decades or so now, so I'm on the fence whether or not I'd want to develop her away from that, at this point. It would be neat, but necessitate some artistic changes. (Her no longer being drawn as passing through stuff, or half in and out of something, since she's going *around* not through.)

That said, Bgtzl has been sorely underdeveloped, with even the late and unlamented 'Threeboot' probably having explored it as much as entire previous decades of characterization. Is it a single world, co-terminus with Earth? Is there an entire Bgtzl-verse on 'the other side,' with it's own sun, moon, solar system, perhaps even galaxies, with Bgtzl-verse alien races, Bgtzl-verse Green Lanterns, a Bgtzl-verse Legion of Super-Heroes? (I kind of hope not. It would be weird for that to have never been mentioned, if so, and could lead to weirdness, like multi-powered characters like a Bgtzln Durlan or Titanian or Daxamite crossing over, which, IMO, would make Tinya quite a bit less special...)

There's also the question of whether or not *all* Bgtzlns can naturally phase like Tinya (or Solon/Phantom Lad, or that space pirate whose name I don't recall), or if the vast majority of them can only cross between Bgtzl and Earth at the dimensional version of a space port, using machines. It would, again, make Tinya a bit more 'special' if not every single Bgtzln can just phase at will between dimensions, and if she's one of a lucky few that can do that without machines.

Honestly, lots of Legion worlds have been under-developed. Has there ever been any sort of historical reference as to when people settled on Titan, or how they turned it into a habitable world, from the smallish lump of ice it seems to be in the 21st century? Ditto Braal, Winath, Cargg, Rimbor, Imsk, Orando, etc., which all seem to be worlds settled by humans from Earth, unlike Colu, Durla and Talokk VIII, which are generally assumed to be 'actual aliens.'

Some, like Titan, Starhaven and Orando, in particular, suggest some pretty wild backstories. (Was Orando, for instance settled *before* spaceflight, by humans who transported themselves there magically, perhaps to escape the decline of magic and medievalism on Earth in a previous millennium? Or was it settled post-spaceflight by the 25th century-ish equivalent of Renaissance Faire enthusiasts who wanted a medieval themed planetary historical recreation/theme park? The answer to that would have a huge impact on how future society would look upon someone like 'Queen' Projectra, her being an actual noble from a magical society that fled Earth 2000-ish years ago, or some Renn Faire cosplayer from a planet of Renn Faire cosplayers...)

My idea of TOS Phantom Girl is not that she herself is 4-dimensional, but that she is a 3-dimensional being that can move in four dimensions.

Here is a 2-dimensional analogy:

Tinya is like a paper doll between the pages of a book. When she interacts with one page, she is on Bgztl. When she interacts with the other, she is on Earth. When she interacts with neither, she is in the Phantom Zone.

^^Exactly. She's not like a sphere crossing through a plane, but like a circle that can move off the plane.

ref. Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by A. Square (Edwin Abbot Abbot)

Can we assume from comments made by Mon-El and Superboy that Krypton was close to where Daxam is listed on the map? If I were to comb through Superman books/wikis/eyc references for other planets, can I group everything close to each other?