Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Dev revisits the 5YL era

I am going to be rereading the 5YG Legion in preparation for my fanfic project. I will be the first to admit that I loved this era of the Legion. It was fresh and exciting, at least for me, and you really never knew what was going to happen next.

Feel free to chime in with thoughts and opinions as well.

Issue #1, Nov '89 "5 Years Later"

The New Legion of Super Heroes, as the cover boldly pronounces. 5 Years later.

The Legion is gone. Disbanded. Fini. Sun Boy is the Earthgov Liason, Cham is running Brande Industries, Salu is in the Brig, and Rokk is stuck on Braal with his pregnant wife Lydda. Polar Boy is mentioned as someone who didn't know when to

Something else else happened at Venado Bay that cost Rokk his powers, and cost his friend Loomis his right arm...something that the Imskians did. Salu has a scar from that encounter that she will not let her superiors remove. She is dishonorably discharged and heads to Winath to join Ayla, and work with Garth at his plantation.

Reep "recruits" Rokk to help reform the Legion, partially by helping get Lydda off planet.

We are then shown, in word balloons that someone is being set free to "resume" their mission. We know that this is Roxxas.

One nice feature that they had were the McCauley Omnicom Text pieces. This issue shows us the debate over what caused the "89 Collapse." Showing that retroactively, Earthgov had been infiltrated even at that point. We also see that Earth President Tayla Wellington called for the disbanding of the Legion. As well as Brek Bannan's memo announcing the actual disbanding 2 years later. This also gives us the first mention of "Black Dawn", and that it cost the Legion a great deal.

We lastly get a commercial for Flight Ring Village. An apartment complex that once was Legion Headquarters.

Looking back at the things we know about where these threads lead, this was a packed issue. A lot if information is given, but there is still so much that we did not know at the time. I remember pouring over each issue looking for hints of what had happened to different characters.

Rather than re-read with you, I'm going to follow your posts and see what I recall without referring to the comics.

I remember having pretty much the same reaction as you. It was fun Easter Egg hunting!

Issue #2, Dec. 89

Okay folks, I love this issue. Loved it then, love it now. It features Ultra Boy (Jo Nah) as the main character. My favorite Legionnaire of all time. The seeds are sown here that lead to the Jo that I am so glad emerged with the first annual. That being that there is much more to him than being "Superboy with a gimmick." Page 21, where Jo goes back to get the remains of the shaving brush that Rokk had given him is a perfect example of why I love Giffen's art in this series. There is a lot said by Jo, even though there are no spoken words by him on the entire page.

We are also introduced to Kono. A great addition to the Legion cast. Smart, feisty and loyal to Jo. Also able to hold her own. The Khunds have something against Kono, so they are willing to take out Jo to get to her. That of course backfires.

We are also updated on Lydda and Loomis heading to Kathoon. We see Shvaugn for the first time, and she is under the watchful eye of Circe, The Earthgov pawn, who is sleeping with Dirk. Kinda funny that Dirk is chasing her so hard, given what happens with Shvaugn later in the series.

Roxxas is also back, and totally off his rocker. Cool.

The thing that saddened me about this issue was learning that Tinya was gone. Yes, we learn later that she was "exchanged" for the L.E.G.I.O.N. Durlan. I think that this actually did make Jo a more rounded character.

All in all a great issue.

To be quiet honest one of the best things about the FYL is that it actually gave Ultra Boy a personality.

Same here. Starting with #2, TMK really just throw away all the bad about Jo Nah and make him one of the best Legionnaires of them all again, and I've loved him as one of my top five favorites Legionnaires (and comic book characters in general) ever since. They really build from #2 thereafter, particularly with the Legion Annual featuring him, which I think is one of the greatest Legion stories ever told.

I also loved Kono, and I love her 'psuedo-sidekick' relationship with Jo in the beginning. When I first read the TMK run I didn't really latch on to her--only on the second, third and fourth reads (yeah, like most of us I dorkishly have read the TMK run a bunch of times), I've really grown to like her. Mary Bierbaum did a bang-up job in creating her (pretty sure it was her). What works with her is the second she comes on-panel, she creates tension and a dynamic with other characters (not so much Jo but with everyone else as the series goes on). That kind of character is absolutely needed in a series.

In this issue we learn Tinya has died and it still pulls on my heart strings to reread that, including the text page at the end, which makes me a little teary-eyed. Obviously it was a set-up to introduce her in LEGION, but when you’re rereading the series and not rereading LEGION (considering how they screwed up the continuity thereafter and now its part of historical hindsight), its better to forget all that and just look at it from Jo’s perspective.

In Tom Bierbaum\'s blog about the TMK run , he mentions in this issue the Hotel Woodmere, spaceship/intergalactic traveling hotel on Page 12 is named after a place in Stamford, CT, where I now live. I wondered if I could ever find where that is. I always forget though when I leave the computer and I doubt I’d find it (I’m not originally from here so damned if I know my way around).

Looking forward to more of your reviews of this era, Dev. Its awesome that you’re back on LW full-time!

Cobalt? u didnt get affected by Nitro in Civil War did you

Read 3 & 4 last night...hope to have them up today sometime. Great stuff. Cannot wait for issue 5, the one off issue featuring a different take on everything.

Having lived in Stamford for about 2 and 1/2 years now, I can say we could use Nitro in a portion of it to 'inspire' some remodeling of the old buildings

PS - check out this thread I started way back when!

Mary did create Kono. Keith put Kono in league with Jo because she seemed to fit in best there. All that is according to Tom's blog about this era.

Issue #3, Jan 90 - Roxxas' back and they're gonna be in trouble...

Another great issue. We get the lowdown (or at least teasers) on a huge amount of characters in a short amount of time.

This issue covers a lot of ground. We are immediately caught up with glimpses of Nura, Dirk (who knows about the Dominators!!), Jan (okay, so it's just a image of Trom...but), Lar (wait...isn't he dead?), Dawnstar(oooohh...more on this later in the series), Brek, Thom, Querl (with hints at the Validus plague and Garth and Imra's son) and back to Reep on Rimbor. 9 panels, 9 quick teases. Brilliant!

A tiny rant about the 9 panel grid used for most of Keiths run here. I LOVED it. More story crammed into an issue for me! Sure, some of it became static and a little confusing...but they were able to do so much more than writers do nowadays. Some writers would have a fit if they had to do this for any length of time, but Tom, Mary, Al and Keith made it work to their advantage.

We then see that Mordru has Rond captive, and that Rond is being endlessly devoured by some creature. Pretty nasty...although Mary saved Rond from Death here by coming up with a torture worse than death. Which also in turn gave us the triangle with he, Brainy and Supe---oops Laurel. Mordru becomes aware of the plans that the fledgling Legion has to come and get Mysa from him.

We then see that Mekt is "down on the farm" with Garth, Imra, Ayla and Salu. Imra is preggers again, and they have lost a shipment of produce.

Reep and Rokk meet Furball who takes them to Jo, and in turn Kono...of which the friendship between Kono and Reep is one of the greatest things ever. Furball is Brin, as we find out soon enough. There have been parallels with Jo and Furball to Han and Chewbacca...they seem fitting, and think I will try some background stuff to the time-frame before Reep comes calling.

The other major point of this issue is Roxxas and his destruction of Blok. Shvaugn reacting to it, and the fact that Roxxas sent the body to Graym, Garths son. This let's the Legionnaires know that Roxxas is out there and coming for them. Another item to note here from Tom's blog is that Shvaugn was supposed to die here and not Blok. But Al Gordon came to the rescue...with the idea that comes to fruition in issue #31. Keith liked it, so She was spared and Blok was lost.

Text pieces on the Ranzz family and the Validus Plague.

Then the set up for next issue...Mon is back...but there are multiple voices here and one of them is not friendly at all.

The letter pages start in this issue with an introduction to the creators guiding us through the series. They also started the "What has gone before" bow which gets you caught up on what you should need to know to understand the issue. Reading the previous issues was always better, but at least they were trying to keep everyone in the loop long before others adopted reca pages.

The letter pages also became a treasure trove of information for longtime readers with tidbits of info scattered throughout.

5YL . . . people either love it or hate it.

My appreciation for what Giffen and the Bierbaums were trying to do has grown over time, but on re-reading # 1-2, I felt much the same as I felt on reading them the first time in 1989: confused as to what was happening, disappointed that even the Legionnaires I knew were unrecognizable, and frustrated that the story was moving so slowly.

Part of this disappointment is due, no doubt, to Giffen's deconstruction of the Legion: They are no longer the darlings of the UP who win every time, who wear brightly colored costumes, and who are all pals with endearing nicknames such as Cos and Cham. They have been swallowed up by the adult reality of their times: poverty, war, politics. When Vi gets her dishonorable discharge for not agreeing to keep silent about Venado Bay, it drives home just how lost the Legion is in a galaxy that does not share their ideals.

Surely it is Giffen’s intention to jar the reader, to shake Legion fans out of their complacency. In this, he is quite successful.

But much of my disappointment also stems from Giffen’s storytelling style. In one interview, Giffen boasted about the dense layering of 5YL, and it is dense. But density itself is not a laudable goal when storytelling clarity is sacrificed. Dev’s summaries, above, were a lot clearer than the original issues.

Issue # 1 starts out well enough with a media recap of the Legion’s career. Then Cham enters the picture and announces it’s time to do something (as long-time readers, we can guess what: reform the Legion). But then we’re given a flashback/dream of Rokk and Loomis on Venado Bay, except that it’s not clear that this is Rokk until the sixth panel, or where they are or what is happening. Giffen tries to convey the confusion of war by using vacant panels and overlapping word balloons, but confusing the readers is not the same as confusing the characters. As a reader, I wanted to put the book down at this point. For me to care about what is happening, I need to know the journalism basics: who, what, where, when, how, and why? Giffen barely gives us a who here.

Mercifully, Giffen gets us back on track with a scene we can recognize (or at least have long hoped for): Rokk and Lydda are now married and about to have a child. Of course, Braal has seen better days, but I’m still with Rokk as he travels the crowded, poverty-stricken streets, passes a check point, and hooks up with Loomis and then Cham. At least, I’m mostly with him: another flashback/dream occurs when he encounters the “Venado Bay” graffiti. Even though Rokk has mentioned “the damn bay” previously, I did not connect the two on first reading nor understand the signficance of the graffiti.. More confusion.

To make matters more confusing, Giffen seems to have rewritten the Legion’s origin by having just one assassin attempt to kill Brande instead of two. Is this the same Legion universe or a parallel one?

Issue # 2 is better for the reasons Dev cites, above: the focus on Ultra Boy and the introduction of Kono. Again, however, Giffen’s obscure storytelling gets in the way of some really good ideas. When the Rimborian science police shoot up the club, it’s not clear what they are doing until its over—or even why they did it in the first place, since their target, Kono, was nowhere nearby. Likewise, the fight between Jo and Kono and the Khund assassins is hampered by unnecessary murkiness in the art and the restrictions of the nine-panel grid. When Kono causes one of the assassins to sink into the ground on page 17, the first two panels fail to convey what is happening. Perhaps this is because the assassin’s form is so grotesque and silly to begin with that he looks like a Play-doh creation.

Speaking of the Khund assassins, did their annoyingly polite dialogue remind anyone else of Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd from the James Bond film Diamonds are Forever? Such dialogue combined with their appearance made it hard for me to take the assassins seriously in spite of the horrendous acts they perpetrate. I was not sure if Giffen and the Bierbaums were intentionally trying to be funny or not.

I’m not a reader who insists that everything be spelled out in a story. But I do believe it’s the writer and artist’s responsibility to orient the reader to the world of the story and to keep the story moving. Giffen and the Bierbaums didn’t quite manage this on these first two outings, but, as I recall, they got better as they went along.

Issue 4, Feb 90 - The 1st white Issue

I remember that this one blew my socks off back then. What the hell happens next?!?!?! But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Giffen's cover is great here. I freely admit to being one of those (maybe the very few) that likes this Giffen style. It's not for everyone, but I like it. That being said...Mon El cracking his knuckles and looking pissed off on the cover...whoo boy, someone is in for a beat-down.

A few things of note here. Nobody else (Legionnaire wise) aside from Tasmia, Lar and Brainy appear in this issue. It's also an issue where I think the 9 panel grid is used the best.

The Time Trapper has brought Mon El back from the "dead" (although, he was only apparently mostly dead) for his own evil schemes. It seems that Lar has been the Trappers fail-safe, a safe house to hide in. It also appears that Eltro has his place in Lar's mind as well. This was to explain certain apparent inconsistencies in his portrayal over the years. It was also used again with Garth, with a much, much bigger fan reaction. It also is never really brought up again from what I remember...

Tamia and Brainy are really there to propel the story to the showdown between Lar and the Trapper. Neither are really needed, but it was nice to see them.

The Trapper goes over his past manipulations of time and space to prove to Lar that he cannot dare destroy him or else he wipes out everything. Over-simplification of things, but I do not feel like typing out every nuance.

Lar then proceeds top destroy the Trapper and everything goes white.

We also get a text piece about Mon El.

This issue was of course tweaked over and over due to the "NO SUPERMAN REFERENCES AT ALL" edict that came down for the Superman editorials. A big mess that they tried their best to work with...to varying degrees of success. Much more on that as it happens. Read all about Tom's recollections of it here: http://itsokimasenator.livejournal.com/1392.html

Thing is, can you imagine if they tried this story with Bendis writing it now...it's take 3 years to get Reep and Rokk to Rimbor.

True. I cannot imagine any mainstream comic book writer today aspiring to something like 5YL.

As part of a fandom, my big wish would be that those that simply hate this part of Legion history for what it did to a (debatably) bright and energetic youth corps, could at the least disassociate it from Legion and enjoy it for the mind-blowing story-telling it was and is.

Those that hate it for other reasons, well I guess those things happen. I'm not sure this run could ever have a redeemed face.

If there had never been a Legion before this, I think the 5YL run would have a more prominent position in comics history. It leaves so many of the other corporate big-events in the dust IMO.

Issue #5, Mar 90 - Fade to white...again.

Wow, an elseworlds issue of the Legion of Super Heroes. I remember really, really liking this issue for a couple reasons. Andrew Nolan is featured as a main character, and given the same heroic spirit that he showed in his few appearances in the Legion proper. Rond is given a major role as well. Mysa is used to effect, as is Glorith...a lot more on her in the coming issues to be sure. Surprised to see Mano in a supporting role, but it was fun to see him.

Due to Lar's destruction of the Time Trapper last issue, we are shown the unicverse as it would have been if the Legion had not been around at all. There are easter eggs all over the place in this issue, highlighting various Legionnaires and friends. The Heroes of Lallor, the Winathian clan that wields lightning, Celeste (although, we have not actually met her yet), Jacques, and Douglas. To just name a few.

Plot is pretty simple, Vidar pieces together the puzzle that Mordru himself has let loose in bits and pieces. He deduces that there is another reality that should have been. Glorith wants power, and hooks up with Vidar to get it. Ritual performed, and we fade to white for the second issue in a row.

I cannot help but thinking that this would have been a 6 month to a year story line in today's market. At least a double sized issue to be sure. It might have been fun to have a couple more issues of the "Mordruverse," but that was not meant to be (another thing that I'd love to explore in fanfic). They had a real Legion to get back to, and it wasn't even going to be one that we 100% recognized. Good or bad, this laid the groundwork for the future of the Legion for the next few years.

No text pieces this issue, as well as no letter pages.

Enjoyed the Knights of the 30 tales in the issue, and would really love to have gotten my hands on the Legion clubhouse snow globe.

I think you'd get some debate as to calling this an "elseworlds" issue, at least in the sense that I understand it. I would say that these events "happened" and are a part of Legion canon.

I'll say this. My "love" of these issues has not diminished over time. I loved them when they came out and still do.

I will admit however, there was something about reading them the first time and being pretty much surprised by something every issue. Never knowing who was going to show up next, and what shape they'd be in.

Now, there's hunting for the little things that we know to look for now. We know who people turn oput to be, and where they are going to end up, but it is still a joy to go along for the ride with a clearer idea of what is happening.

I think that the reboot after all of this really hurt at the time. But I gave it a shot and followed it through till it's own end. The reboot started out strong as well, but then floundered for what seemed like forever, then seemed to find a voice again with DnA. Whether it was a great voice or not...meh, it was at least a return to what 5YL was for me...you never knew what was going to happen next.

Next up...Introductions and Reintroductions galore.

Very true, it is another version of the Legion that appeared for one issue...in continuity, somehow it still feels like an elseworlds type tale. Really all I meant by that.

Issue #6, Apr 90 - Welcome to their nightmare

This issue was probably better for me on first reading. Still a solid issue with a lot happening...but it feels like there is just almost too much going on at this point. Thankfully the threads start coming together soon.

And away we go...again. After the one off issue in the Mordruverse, we're back in the here and now that we know...or are we?

Dirk, at the behest of Circe and the Dominators, is recruiting Celeste to investigate and find out who let Roxxas out. Knowing that they have set it up that she will never trace it back to Earthgov...or at least, never tell if she does. So we have now met Celeste. We are also introduced to Devlin (young reporter in the Jimmy Olsen vein) and Bounty (knowing the future of this character makes it interesting to analyze some of her dialog.) This odd group heads off to Trom, sight of Roxxas' greatest "accomplishment."

The other main theme of this issue is Reep's mission to Tharn to get Mysa from Mordru. Here we see Vykros (a vampire of sorts), who was supposed to eventually join the Legion...according to Tom B. We are treated to nightmares of wach of our crew, thanks to Mordru, and provided some loose background stuff on the characters involved. Kono had some bad experiences with the SP's, Reep fought his brother to the death, Jo relives his power gain with a twist, Rokk sees things that were not there at Venado Bay, and Furball is revealed to be Brin.

We then see the groups backup...Superg--wait, I mean the Flying Buttress herself, Laurel Gand. A new retcon that worked well for me.

We also get to see Jan on Trom.

We get text pieces on Mordru's return to power on Tharn, and a retcon piece on the "conspiracy" story. This gets touched on again, but the whole focus has now shifted from the Trapper to Glorith, and from somewhen in time to Daxam.

Re: Issue # 3

As narrative, this is much easier to follow than the first two issues. We do get glimpses of several Legionnaires, but there are two main events that happen in this story: Jo is recruited by Cham and Rokk, and Roxxas kills Blok.

I would love to say that the first event is truly important, but Giffen, in his usual elliptical way, tells around the story instead of telling the story directly. For example, when Jo first encounters Cham and Rokk, we don't see this encounter; we only hear it through Mordru's servant. While this technique advances the plot, it deprives us of witnessing the reunion we've waited for. As such, the emotional impact of the scene--and much of the story--is stilted.

Blok's nasty end also comes across as a tragic waste--it does nothing more than establish Roxxas as a crazy badass. And the Legion universe is already full of crazy badasses (re: Mordru).

The emotional high point of the issue for me was seeing the statues of deceased Legionnaires on Winath. Nice to know that someone still cared . . .

Re: Issue # 4

And so ends the Legion universe as we knew it.

When I first read this story, I didn't fully appreciate its significance. We'd seen "final battles" with the Time Trapper before, and, in fact, "final battles" with major villains are a staple of DC and Marvel (re: Kang). After awhile, they grow tiresome.

But this truly was the final battle, and the Legion has not been the same since. If the old Legion had to end, then Giffen gave it his best shot. Rather than having the team fight en masse (as we might expect), it all comes down to Mon-El, who makes a decision that real heroes make every day: "But somehow, somewhere, somebody else will rise up and take our place." There are echoes of true heroes making sacrifices and trusting in their belief that good will ultimately win, even if they are not around to see it.

That's as meaningful as Giffen gets, and it works quite well on re-read, particularly in light of what's happened since.

Once again, though, Giffen's elliptical storytelling ruins what could have been a powerful scene: the reunion between Mon and Shady. Instead of seeing this, we read captions in abstract panels. To obfuscate the scene further, Giffen includes dialogue between the Time Trapper and Eltro Gand (though we don't know who these voices belong to until later) in the same panels. Bad enough that we don't see an emotional scene, we also have to try to figure out who else is talking. I guess Giffen isn't much for sentimentality so long as he can keep the reader guessing.

Legion # 4 was a necessary evil: necessary because DC had to go to great lengths to justify the Legion's existence without Superboy. It's a shame that the company became so obsessed with the internal workings of its universe that it ruined one of the best franchises it has ever had. But Giffen did his best to end the old Legion in style, and, in retrospect, he succeeded.

I was largely confused by what was happening in the discussed issues. Confused yet fascinated. I'm also a fan of Giffen's art style and the 9 panel grids.

I call this comics for the advanced palette.