Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-reading the Legion: Archives Volume 19

302 Comments



There was a detention cell full of them that Cham had to fight when he was on Takron Galtos. I wonder where they came from and, in light of the Ups feelings in Legion lore on Durlans, how many of them were out and out villains.



Good spot about the tip off.



The paper stock on these things must be a lot better than I thought it was.



It was a good line. The Legion-esque EGOs had a plot regarding control of the galactic economy. The 5YG also focused quite a bit on how important revenue was to keeping the whole UP going. I imagine it’s a problem again at the end of v7 after the Emerald Empress attacked it (again!)




As Drake wants to share all the gossip, Nura nonchalantly undercuts him. That unique combination of powers, personality and approach is probably what goes some way to irritating her frequent deputies into quitting.




It does beg the question why Imra doesn’t send most of the Legion’s foes to sleep. There’s usually no shortage of Legion-fodder to keep the villains distracted. Of course, it ruins the conflict in the story. I wonder if that’s another reason for Imra to get side lined sometimes. Replacement characters, such as Tellus and Otaki (Levitz was polling feedback on her) were more limited in scope.



This is what has struck me about this story in previous readings. The central premise doesn’t seem ever likely to work. Having said that, Dawny told Mekt where Garth and Imra had went

This reread is making me think differently. I was a newsstand reader, so I didn’t get any of the early Baxter books. So, there’s a much larger gap in the Jeckie/Val arc for me than there actually was in the books. It’s actually a fairly regular subplot from their departure, her father’s death, her ascension to the throne of Orando and subsequent marriage.

The marriage is very close to Lightning Lord’s attack. The attack is very close to the Sun Emperor’s appearance on Orando (305). Not only has it been a subplot that has grown steadily over Levitz’s time on the book, the pace has been accelerating in recent issues.

The villains have been forming in the background. Their overall plan is in place, and some may well have already made their oaths. In Baxter #1 we will see that Ayla is on the board of Legionnaires to kill, even if she’s not active.

Considering his ego, and the very direct confrontations Mekt has already had with Garth concerning family matters, I think this is his way of trying to spare Ayla the same fate as the others. Sure, he thinks he can get her to join him, and gratefully follow his lead in the LSV. He’s not overly altruistic But it’s also a way of combining her departure as a way of strengthening what little remains of his family ties in his new life and group. A family, that considering every move he makes involves them (relates to them ) is clearly important to him. He has no leads at all, and so he uses the only technique he knows.




I thought the comment was definitely a put down, as Garth knew full well why Brin was asking. He wasn’t going to have Brin ruin her privacy even if he did know where she was. But the words are combined with his arm in arm departure with Imra. “Let’s call it a day” is Garth’s closure on the whole Khundia mission. Brin is completely out of his depth. He loved Ayla, hadn’t a clue about what was going on the asteroid and is now left failing on the dating scene. But Brin has his moments too, such as trying to wheedle information out of the others. They’ve all just moved on and he’s going to have to mature if he’s going to do the same. That’s what you get by being such a moody loner all that time Brin. It’s only with his superpowers that he can’t be outmanoeuvred



I wondered why that read like a “Previously, on Webers World”



Seeing both sides of the Vi plot (Jans team and[i] Gim & Vi on Webers World) is a good approach, even if it has to take up more space as a result. The Webers World mission is a lovely bit of Plot-A (the big plot) misdirection on Levitz’s part so as not to focus too much on Vi. I think it really pays off when we get the reveal. Seeing Gim with Vi on these missions, and one so close to the plot being uncovered, shows just how much of a shock the whole thing is to Gim. Look how happy Levitz makes them early in the issue. Besotted with each other. Ouch!

I think the Baxter plot is moving in its own way, as above. Likewise there’s a Kara/Brainy plot moving along that may have had some external reasons for not reaching fruition.

Originally Posted by HWW

Levitz seems to have built Nura up only to tear her down. In previous stories, she came across as decisive and in control, but here she irritates her colleagues by predicting what they are going to say before they say it and complaining about another broken nail. Whereas the broken nail in 298 worked as a way for her downgrade the villain she was punching, here it comes across as petty and self-absorbed.

I think that’s all part of Nura. Imagine you’ve closely known a group of people for years. They always tell you the same stories over and over to the point you know everything they’re going to say. There’s never any variation. That’s what it must be like for Nura a lot of the time. [i]Then you’ve got her own ego and her intellectual prowess, that must make it extra boring, to add to the mix. She does break a lot of nails though.



Hey, you try and find a UP Port-a-loo in a space lane, buddy! Particularly one that’s not zero-G! Garth has been too busy moping and I think, for copyright reasons, Kal is the only one allowed to have Buns of Steel on the team



Yeah, I’d have loved him to stay on that edge. The readers may even know what he’s up to, but the Legion don’t making him infuriatingly sneaky.



This. Just go back to my earlier comment about Mekt and mentally paste this in please



All of those personality traits, combined with his sense of frustrated self inflicted ostracisms are why he’s obsessed with his family. I don’t think he necessarily needs their love, so much as having their unending gratitude and respect for every breathe he takes. And if he has to show them that this has to be done, well… The v4 stuff was done after a 5YG in the therapy tanks.

303 Comments (302 above and 304 to come...)



I don’t think I mentioned the Circle once. They were just rent-a-goons in there. The Empress made a show of going solo, but was she about ot be betrayed by Ontiir so that Webers World would really fall to the Circle?




I thought there was some weird retcon going on with that line, even if they hadn’t met before. Still, in the old days Kara would have been obligated to tell us that she was “from Superboy’s time, but from a different decade!”



Lots of Durlans around suddenly, and she could have been controlled unwittingly by the Circle. In V4 the Circle had their hands on the Legion’s cell bank. But what if it wasn’t just the heroes’ cells they had their mitts on? (mental note for Bits )

On the jaw crushing, perhaps it was an early sign of her becoming more at one with the Eye, which sort of led to her downfall in the Baxter run.



I like to think that the Circle got at least some of what it wanted from all this. The Empress has control of the central systems of the World. I think the Circle are tapping into the information she’s getting from it. As a bonus, there’s having an alliance with her that might cripple the UP’s admin. But perhaps that wasn’t really their goal. Who knows if this was even the real Ontiir, considering the Circle clones. Perhaps this one was supposed to die when Webers World went up in flames.



I wonder if I smiled at this the first time I read it, or groaned a little.



Quick decision making and sending the fastest, best team. All to Nura’s credit. I think Jo’s petulance comes from his bid for leadership. He’s angling himself for the top job, and being left out of the rescue team dents his pride. Tinya gets a bit of protectionist snark in too in recent issues, and I suspect she’s fuelling Jo’s ego a bit. Well done to Levitz for having the rescue team not do a thing. Makes a nice change.

Talked a bit about Garth ‘n Brin above...




I do wonder how they met. Perhaps the Circle has so many followers out there, that it’s like the Matrix. They’ll always be able locate someone if they need to.




Be glad that the Hannibal Morgna mini didn’t get past the editors.




…some Nura comments above, and I agree that consideration of feelings isn’t Nura’s strong suit. To Levitz’s credit, this comes straight from her origin issue. Once she was on the team she was completely focussed on learning the constitution and acting upon it for her own reasons. People’s feelings didn’t get a look in. Perhaps she sees them as a bit of in convenience when the future she’ so close to is already determined.





Even when I first read this, it didn’t strike me as at all odd that a Legionnaire would know their way around one of the key parts of the UP. Later, this was only reinforced with Vi being in the Espionage squad and the Legion having spent time on Webers’ previously. I think it’s supposwed to show that “Vi” had knowledge that only a spy would have. Taking that further, does this hint at the Imskian Revolution’s broader goals? First Imsk, then the UP! Or at least a way of preventing the UP form striking back at their takeover? It’s the only way Year would ever have been told such details.

304 Comments (303 above, 305 to follow)



I think they’ll get a bit of both. In between missions, they’ll get to focus on certain areas at the Academy. I didn’t read it as them being there for a semester, but I may have to reread that. Jacques is an everyman (and Darkseid let him live on a whim) so some training wouldn’t hurt. A few holos of Lyle Norg would help a lot too. While Mysa is a potent foe, its pretty focussed. This will round that out without having to be in front of a group of villains. Both expressed a need to refine or learn about their powers. Both also came across as more mature than the students in this issue, showing that it’s more than just the training that makes a Legionnaire.



Facebook gets taken over by Omnicom.



We never see Nura’s reaction to this do we? That’s a really interesting take on some of Jan’s motivations too. Typical. He goes off to find a direction that isn’t just a dutiful Legionnaire, only to be dragged into an Election



Yeah, although it’s still 21 members at the end of the issue, there could be a few turning points coming. Perhaps that was in the reasoning to show the readers an Academy issue. Just to reinforce the idea that some of the old guard could be moving on.



I think that just defining them as teachers was Levitz’s tick in the box for this issue. Lu is shown as a relaxed and knowledgeable teacher, while Chuck has literally all of the angles covered in the training mission. If the students had failed, I’ve no doubt he would have been able to take care of the situation.



It was a secret Wildfire spotlight issue. It’s probably why he was subdued in Star Boy’s issue, content in the knowledge he’d had a spotlight.



I think Shady’s comment had a real barb to it. She was testing Brin’s feelings on the subject and has a calm expression on her face when he stalks off.



You know, because I first read these out of sequence, I always saw it more as an introduction to the Academy. But you’re right, the whole thing is set up to have an induction ceremony at the end. Which makes seeing the statues all the more poignant. Which you just said as I read on…

I’ll also agree that I thought the Vi plot was all in the next issue too.


Would any of you have liked to have seen one (or more) of the students join following this issue?

305 Comments (304 above, 306 to follow)



It looks a bit more disturbing with every reread. :sad:



Taking their word for Vi not being able to be with them showed that she simply wanted to believe them by that point. She’d already had her ego stroked about The Great Durlan Performance. I don’t think they picked Yera only on her abilities. While she wasn;t going to spy on the Legion for them, she did take the time to learn all about UP installations for them.




Imsk had threatened to leave the UP before (back in SBoy 232 – Look It Up Lad) in order to extend their space zone. There was a real need for the Imskians to do this, and the UP were refusing. A compromise must have been reached as Imsk stayed. Since there’s always people unhappy at a compromise, I think the Imskian rebellion may well have had support. From normal citizens to military factions. Many wouldn’t know what their real agenda was until they were under the control of their new leaders. The military force may not have been hidden from the authorities. They may well have been part of the authorities.




I had written all the reviews for recent issues but…Cancellite!



Lost Tales of the Legion: Just what is the link between Cancellite and the powers the Dark Man gave Neutrax?




Colossal Boy was once forced to turn on the Legion. He then had to betray the Legionnaires who went in to help. I wonder if that experience has an influence on what he hopes Year’s motivations were. Or at least how easily it can be to get yourself deeper into something like that.



Gap Year Starhavenites tending bars around the UP and getting married.




Didn’t vote for him either



It’s quite a remove from Villain-Of-The-Month comics isn’t it, which has always been a strength of sci-fi.

EDIT: That you also went on to mention regarding Lotus Fruit! I’ll not say “great minds” so much as “You’re sinking to my level. Get help”



There’s some nice shades of ignorance on a number of sides in this one which makes the writing stand out (even if unintentionally in some cases)




Having just seen her in a psych probe thing, I did think she had agreed to help, or been “pushed” into doing it. Cham being able to break out of a Durlan trap (to the collective gasp of all villains building Super hero traps) gave me more of a problem



The Mighty Levitz Paradigm Chart will suffer no delays! Usually, he manages to drop them in when there’s a pause (sometimes even if it’s just for breathe ) but not here, hence the clunk.



I thought at first that Gim was bringing Yera up to speed form her containment cell, where she awaited trial. But later issues would show this not to be the case. So scott free, she should have joined the Legion as Miss Miracle



As things turned out, I don’t fancy his chances with the real Violet now. So, he’s just being practical staying with someone who can at least impersonate her. Yera isn’t the only one who got off lightly.



I had 306 down as a good ‘un. That’s quite a build up for the rest of the re reads though.

“I was looking forward to the rereads until HWW told me the future. Now you may call me… Despondency Damsel!”

306 Comments



“At least someone noticed, thought Vi as she pushed the button on the Omni-Ballot.”



I also took this to be another reminder of their pairing.




Having read Giffen’s take on the personalities, which he said were Paul’s there was a lot of thought put into the personalities. I guess the voting flowed naturally from that. The write in being because that’s what the readers voted for I guess.

I wonder how far Jan would have taken his sulking had he not got the readers’ vote.

Next month from DC… The Arrah &Erin Detective Agency

Arrah: I have a feeling about this case.
Erin: I like it when you show your feelings…Jan.
Arrah (Blush… while tracking down crooks): Get down Shvaughn! Those crooks are firing hot lead at us! Well, I know something about lead…. Oh… you’ve already shot them.
Erin: Hey, I wasn’t in the SP ‘cause of my looks.
Arrah: But…but.. I wanted to capture them!
…continues for twenty pages of bitter sulking by Jan.



The results seem to be on a portable Monitor Board. It’s still in one piece at the end after Thom brings down a floating advertising hoarding that happened to be overhead.




A Thom & Grava ongoing would be awesome to the max!




Apparently, the full sequence had Thom crushing a rock showing he had powers, then get hit when he realised he’d lost them. Then he turned into Star Horse, Comet’s cousin before Anti Lad came back in time to solve the riddle of who really *was* the thirteenth Legionnaire? That got erased from the timestream, and the memories of all readers so we all see it as per our reviews here.



Drake does chastise him, telling him he likes it in the Legion just as much. Nura was already angling for a return in the last panel of her first appearance, while a love sick Thom looked on.



The people listening to his moaning remember the good old days when he was forgotten about. I think his relationship to Nura is the thing he’s concerned most with. I think he’d previously been shown with a deadpan tell-it-like-it-is personality previously.



Levitz’s run brings out a few warts in the personalities of a lot of the Legionnaires.

I think Thom is extra intro-whiny because Nura has been unusually silent with him well before #306. The reason for this is because she knows Thom isn’t going to vote for her. Thinking that it’s the remoteness of leadership that’s causing the silences, Thom votes against Nura believing he’s doing the right thing. The silent treatment continues after Nura loses.











It looks like a mobile Monitor Board (they refer to it as a Monitor Board) that goes around with them, if they want to keep an eye on things form elsewhere in the HQ. I don’t know if we saw the advertising hoarding prior to Thom shooting it down, which would have helped.



The foliage and Nura are mentioned as having been there, but aren’t shown in the sequence. Perhaps Mr Swan didn’t want to go back and change a panel composition when he got to the bit where Levitz had them mentioned in the script.

Another important change is in the death of Jan Barth. In #306 it looks as though Kenz is simply too quick for hi, But that’s a terrible slight on Jan. In the original story, he was killed because he had to stop and explain to Thom why he carried a gun around. It was really the exposition that got him killed.



Thom grouches about having to meet with whoever Nura has [/i]bothered[/i] to leave back on Earth in #304. He seems to be the last arrival, and there’s a focused Lar sitting there waiting for him.

Tinya, Jo and, an inwardly enjoying herself, Tasmia complete that Legion sub group. Brin has already managed to break something, as he’s way off at the moment. As is Thom, who isn’t punctual and is self-absorbed to the point he can’t see that Nura knows exactly what’s she’s doing and has done anything on a whim.

Not really. None of them really grabbed my interest, though Comet Queen was kind of fun and Laurel was probably the most developed as a character before DC decided to get rid of her in one of the most trite ways imaginable. Bad enough that the Legion had an impostor in their midst for several months, but to learn that one of their Academy students was secretly



must have really lowered their security clearance rating.

Laurel's connection to Superboy was one of the things I enjoyed most during her infrequent appearances. It tied the Legion, however marginally, to the Silver Age and the expectation that Superman would eventually marry and have children. Yet Laurel's background was ambiguous enough that we were never certain who he would marry. (Laurel only told us she resembled the woman Superboy would marry, but that doesn't have to refer to Lois.) Laurel was the Legion's first legacy character, not counting the brief appearances of the Tornado Twins, and she reinforced the notion that family was important. However, her invulnerability wasn't an impressive power, especially since it was already duplicated by Mon, UB, and, to an extent, Blok.



I'm just trying to pique your and other readers' curiosity--is the Omen story really that bad? Is there a decline in quality? Let's find out . . .

Maybe you and Cramey can live up to her New Year's resolution and find something good in the Omen story.

Comments on comments on #306...



The Doom Patrol, particularly as written by Giffen, struck me as the perfect Stoic superheroes. Among the Legionnaires, I placed Element Lad (more based on his later development than what we've seen so far), Mon-el and Light Lass (also based on later portrayal).



I don't recall Thom being this way previously, although he was always something of a cipher, personality-wise. This negative Thom will continue and extend into 5YL. You have to wonder what sort of batball coach he was; we know he was honest, but his pep talks must have been downers.


Certainly one of the better/more positive portrayals of Wildfire.



This confused me; I figured it was an internal monitor at first but Drake's comment at the end made me think it was an ad board (which really doesn't make sense, since the Legion has their own internal vote monitor system, as seen in the Dream Girl election issue). Should have known better!



Good point, Father. How many Legion leaders have been on the grumpy side?




Wishful thinking?



All of which makes me question why Thom never became some writer’s favourite (or at least favoured) Legionnaire. He just remained one of Nura’s accessories. (Perhaps we’ll uncover some forgotten gems of Thom-centric scenes in the issues ahead?) He couldn’t even attract the attention of the Giffen kill-squad.



I can never figure out how people discern what the penciller vs the inker has done.



I rather like how this retcon was done, the past re-filtered through Thom’s current mental state rather than just rewriting history with no explanation.



Curious that the guy who dates the seer has such poor forecasting abilities.



The election votes are easier to decipher than the expulsion votes. At the time of the murder trial, the Legionnaires’ personalities weren’t so distinctive – although the only female who voted guilty was Imra. It would have been a tie if they hadn’t let Jimmy Olsen vote – and Brainiac 5 shouldn’t have had a vote at all, as prosecutor.



Hadn’t thought of that possibility. You’re right that using Drake instead makes for a better story.

Comments on Thoth's comments on comments, 302-305

All the Durlans we've seen so far have been unsavoury characters, apart from Reep and R.J. - Chameleon Chief, Yera, Takron-Galtos gang, the leaders on Durla weren't too pleasant either. It may just be too easy to cast them as villains and sneaks with that power of impersonation.

Signs of activity from the LSV - you'd think the Legion - or the SPs - would be monitoring criminals, who's where, who's meeting with whom, etc. Police do that today - and we know that the future is one super-surveillance state of space.

The idea that the Dark Circle might be controlling the Empress is pretty interesting. I don't believe it developed that way, but no reason there couldn't have been some manipulation of her, overtly or covertly. Maybe the Eye makes its own deals at this point.
I rather miss the old Thieves' World, where characters like the Empress and the Dark Circle (and Mekt Ranzz) could hang out over a beer and plot to kill Legionnaires.

Ontiir as a clone to be sacrificed if necessary - perfect!

Shady's comment to Brin had a real barb in it: I hadn't taken it that way, but given her comments in the next issue (#307), it does take on a less than sympathetic tone.

That Yera gets off scott free is a bit lax for 30th century justice, but maybe she made a plea deal and she's under house arrest/probation in exchange for information about the Imskian rebels. Or Marte Allon's office took care of everything, unbeknownst to Gim.

Thank you for commenting on my comments on your comments, and your comments on HWW’s comments too.



The analogy of a state spending most of its time spying on everyone in its population rather than targeting likely criminals is not lost on me.



I read it as them letting her get her objectives, while they had goals that relied her achieving them as a starting point. Different levels, and approaches, of villainy at work.


Curtsey… no bow… darnit…bow…



I’ve just read #307…

thoth: Look Ma! I’m ahead!
thoth mum: Well, you are a brain in a tank, dear.

… and she is enjoying playing with him. For a guy who’s all wolfy, he’s easy prey.



There’s something coming up about Marte meeting Year isn’t there? Perhaps we’ll learn more there. Bearing in mind that the Legion carry around a lot of sensitive UP stuff in their heads too, you’d think they’d be more punitive. Having said that, I always had Yera pegged as a UP agent from this point on, as part of a deal.








I’m sure we had a reread issue, probably when there was a change in creative team, where I expected Thom to be removed by the end of the issue. Had I been reading it for the first time, when it came out, dedded would have been possible too. He was just baggage. There’s also an interview with Barr & Wein where they spoke about (albeit nothing planned) about trimming the group. Star Boy would possibly have fallen away then too.

His initial appearance was picked up on in the Superboy and the Legion Elseworlds mini drawn by Alan Davis.

I think he did attract the attention of the Giffen kill-squad, even if Giffen had just moved away to maintain an alibi for it



Fortunately, this is a great batch of books to learn from! You see all those issues where the characters are consistently coherent in style? That’s Mahlstedt at work

Not fair, but Giffen’s basic pencilling has been shifting and experimental to lesser degrees in its approach for a while.

I should also have been talking about Gafford’s stellar work in recent issues. They wouldn’t stand out as they do without his contribution. A top team at work.



I think I’ve turned into a bit of a retcon grump, so bear that in mind with my posts I guess. Although I wouldn’t have liked Swan’s work anywhere near as much as I now do, I think I would have loved seeing all the gaps filled in when reading these for the first time. But, for me, it’s not a patch on the original stories. Playing around with Bits and the rereads has just made the retcons feel a bit more obvious, so I’m also blaming Legion World! And Brin! Everything is Brin’s fault too!




Opposites attract… although one of them knew that in this case.


That led into how her personality was perceived by the others. I’m thinking there was another reason, but it’s escaping me. Where’s an Academy team when you need one to catch it?!



Years later, we’d get the retcon tale of how Ant-Lad secretly voted in place of someone else and how half of the votes were from Bizarros and Superman Fortress robots of the Daily Planet staff, pretending to be Legionnaires.




Laurel was probably the readiest, but neither she Magnetic Kid, Power Boy or Shadow Kid were going to get past the no duplicate powers thing. Despite Laurel’s pleas of “I’m sort of Kryptonian and you let all of them in…

The one good thing about joining in battle, is that you get some panels to show off some personality. Crystal Kid, Nightwind, Lamprey (both nicely updated visually) and Urk don’t really have that.

Comet Queen does stands out in that respect.



This could be due to when I started reading the Legion, but I was never impressed with the Superman lineage reaching Laurel. The Legion was stand alone for me, so I could live without the Tornado Twins, Oli-3, and super-descendants (nice as some of the writing was)
Laurel introduced herself as Elna, as an anagram of who Superboy would grow up to marry. Super-editors must have had a fit!

Superboy chatting up his descendant was creepy no matter what the legalities of it were by the 30th century.

Post Crisis, she had to go as there was no Superboy. I don’t remember minding the detail of the story. But the premise made no sense, particularly as it followed “Who shot Laurel Kent?”

I’ve grown to appreciate her character and her power more in recent times. Visually, she’s always stood out. Not from (or just from) a leching point of view, but from what the personality behind the choices must be like.

#307 The Prohpet Shall Speak by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, Larry Mahlstedt Inker, Carl Gafford colours, John Costanza Letters



Cover: A sorcerer-looking person examines a burning parchment with depictions of Star Boy, Blok, Timber Wolf, possibly Nura and others.

Tinya, Brin Jacques and Tasmia, enclosed in space suits, observe the remains of a planetoid research station Trewsk. Jacques mentions that one of the scientists was his friend. Tasmia covers the destruction with darkness since it’s making her feel sick, although she thinks Brainy could stomach it. Aboard the Legion cruiser, Tinya sights a flash coming from one of the suns; the Legionnaires follow this solar flare as their scans indicate two humanoids within it. One of the figures seizes the cruiser and hurls it towards the other, who stops it with a gesture and sends the cruiser hurtling towards a planet. The Legionnaires escape, but Tinya remains on board to try and save the ship in a crash landing.

At Legion HQ, Jan and Cham disembark from their cruiser, to be welcomed by Thom and Drake. Jan reports that they left Vi on Medicus One and that Gim and Yera have gone off to get reacquainted. Cham impersonates Nura with a mustache and asks Thom if perhaps she’s a Durlan too – which earns him a punch in the eye. Drake tells Jan that he won the election, but Jan figures it’s a joke.

On Khundia, Nura has led a team to protect Ambassador Relnic in negotiations. Rokk, Imra and Garth decide to take a dinner break. Garth announces that they’re going to have a baby. Blok hears Rokk’s shout, then a blast sound as bits of a wall hit him. He turns to see some SP officers lying unconscious, others blasting their own guns at a Khund who announces himself as Gurkak. Gurkak calls for Blok, saying that by defeating Kharlak, Blok robbed him of the chance to defeat Kharlak himself. He hurls a bomb at Blok as the other Legionnaires run in. Blok abosrbs the blast and tosses Gurkak over a wall.

In deep space, Tasmia expresses her relief that Tinya was unharmed and saved the cruiser. Tinya says they should track the solar creatures and use their brains to deal with them, since Lar and Jo aren’t there to do the heavy work. They track the radiation trail to Corvan IV and find themselves under attack once again; this time, the cruiser is destroyed. Each Legionnaire deals with the defense ships using their own power and they alight on the planet’s surface. Tinya suggests that she and Jacques explore the nearest town; Brin and Tasmia hide in a cave under Tasmia’s shadow. Tasmia suggests that Brin stay to his side of the cave since this isn’t a romantic interlude.

On Earth, Gigi and Shvaughn play scrabble. Jan arrives and shares the joke that he was elected leader.

On Corvan IV, amid a downpour, Jacques reflects on the beauty of the French language and asks if Tinya or the original Invisible Kid ever doubted their power’s efficacy. Tinya answers that there weren’t as many powerful Legionnaires back in the day and that one does what one can, since mighty power doesn’t make one more valuable. She then observes that it’s not raining in the center of the village, where a weird glow is seen. The glow is addressing the residents, warning of damnation if they do not vanquish an approaching enemy. Jacques is thrown out of his invisibility and attracts the attention of the Corvanians, who think he must be the enemy. Tinya tries to distract them; suddenly, Jo snatches her and flies away. He and Mon-el have joined the group, after reading their report on the destruction of the science station.

On Khundia, Relnic sits down with a Gil’Dishpan and Khundish diplomat. They are told that the meeting is ended since Khundia has been invaded. Relnic and the Legionnaires are baffled as to who might be invading; the Gil’Dishpan says he doesn’t know and teleports away. The skies brighten and they see a figure amid the glow. The Khunds fire at it, with no effect. The figure claims he is not their enemy but warns that the enemy will soon arrive like an Omen of Doom – and they must fight.

At the edge of the Khundish system, Mon-el and Jo follow the radiation trail, guiding the other Legionnaires in a Corvanian ship. Mon-el sees a figure at the end of the trail and a trashed Khundish fleet.

Comments:

Well, this starts out promising. Unlike others (it appears) I rather like this artwork, so that helps. We get a number of set-ups for new storylines: the Prophet/Omen, a looming war with Khundia and Gil’Dishpan, Jan’s term as leader, a baby on the way for Imra and Garth. The Violet/Yera story is put on the backburner, but not forgotten.

The friendship between Tasmia and Tinya is emphasized here. They joke about relying on their powerful boyfriends on missions, but are confident that they have the brains to deal with the issue at hand. Are they saying that their lovers are all brawn, no brain - or just that they have to supplement their powers with strategic thinking? They ignore Brin and Jacques as they huddle together.

Tasmia displays some of the cattiness which I so dislike in her character. In the cave, she tells Brin to keep his distance, this isn’t a romantic interlude – certainly unkind to bring up such embarrassing, if not painful memories, let alone unnecessary. She thinks “especially with you”, but you figure her tone and expression might as well have made that verbal. If Brin had more Wildfire in him, he might have responded that she’s the last woman he wanted to get close to.

Tinya is kinder. She’s upbeat with Jacques about their role in the Legion. She doesn’t snipe at him for falling out of invisibility and attracting attention, but tells him to get away and let her divert the crowd. Tinya saves the cruiser, which must have taken some bravery as well as quick thinking. This is reminiscent of her portrayal earlier issues, in which Tinya often saved the day. Unfortunately, for character development, she’s later rescued by Jo and doesn’t get a chance to make her own escape from the Corvanians.

There’s a nice 16 panel page, before Jo and Mon arrive, in which each Legionnaire defeats an attacking Corvanian in four panels.

That Jan doesn’t believe he won the election may be a good joke, but it suggests pretty sloppy electoral procedures. No official statement of who won? His team clearly took the time to vote, but getting Violet to Medicus One must have overridden any interest they had in the results. Jan goes straight to Shvaughn, showing where he’s putting his priorities these days.

Thom shows that he’s still super-touchy about Nura, actually punching Cham for making a joke about Nura being a Durlan. The joke was in rather bad taste, given the seriousness of Yera’s deception, but perhaps we can chalk it up to black humour or relief at rescuing Salu. We learn that Gim and Yera are on leave to “get reacquainted”, which reminds us that Yera is facing no obvious punishment.

The diplomatic mission hints at a brewing war between the U.P., Khundia and the Gil’Dishpan. The scene with Gurkak doesn’t do much for the story, except to show that Blok is really strong and calm.

It’s probably not a big surprise that Imra is pregnant, although one may wonder if she (and Garth) will stay with the team.

I liked the return to Corvan IV, the planet on which the Fatal Five tried to peacefully settle down. The natives rejected the Five’s advanced technological help, but it looks like they’ve made a lot of progress on their own, at least to the point of having a defensive air force.

I’m not sure what threw Jacques out of his invisible state – was it something the Prophet did on noticing him, or did the Prophet’s message disturb Jacques? Perhaps he feared the return of Darkseid as the prophesied enemy.

I intended to skip the Omen review and link to some of my previous comments elsewhere, but I was bored last night, so I went ahead and re-read 307. A full review will be forthcoming, but I want to touch on a couple of things:



Yes, but she thinks to herself that she doesn't want to be stuck on an asteroid with Brin. At least she keeps her cattiness to herself this time.

I did like this portrayal of Tinya, though: the senior Legionnaire, who shares her insights with Jacques and looks out for him. I admired her positive thinking in saving the ship and looking forward to solving this case without Jo and Lar--which made it all the more disappointing when the latter two showed up. There was a real chance for Tinya's theory to be put to the test and to show that "weaker powered" Legionnaires really do have a lot to contribute.



The first time, Jan's ignorance was funny; the second time (the scene with Shvaughn), it looks like he's just moping and ignorant. Surely some kind of announcement would have been made by now. Even Shady knew the results.

By the way, I notice that Vi voted even though she's just now being taken to Medicus One. The Legionnaires take their voting seriously--casting ballots even when they're apparently in no condition to do anything else!

LoSH 307

The Legionnaires as mythic archetypes on a scroll combines ancient religions with the 30th century future. The Prophet does not look like a particularly meek one, as he views the scroll. That it catches fire indicates that the prophecy is not a good one for our heroes. A pretty good cover in capturing the tone of the issue and showing how ominous the threat might be.


I had gone into the issue thinking that this was where Giffen’s style changed dramatically, with the result that it was going to be difficult to follow. But it wasn’t really the case.

The opening sequence, where the Legionnaires are investigating a research station disaster on Trewsk, is much the same as last issue.

Their solution is to cover up the carnage and leave it to Brainy. So much for a forensic approach. The reaction of Tinya is consistent to her reaction to the firebombing on Earth. Jacques’ strong sense of self is also a stand out. There are key areas of belief that he just doesn’t like transgressed. He reprimands Brin’s flippancy as wishes to mourn his lost friend. It’s a good extension of the decisions he made when dragging Drake back into the world again.

The Legionnaires get a break when an energy prominence breaks away from one of the system’s three stars. Inside, following a nice Giffen panel of a reflected Brainy, are two humanoids.

It’s pretty good for three pages. We know that the system exhibits strange patterns. So much so that it was being investigated. That team were all killed. There may be a link to the killings from a massive energy bubble containing two figures. Energy so powerful that Darkseid gets a mention. We also have consistent characterisation in the field team.

The following pages doesn’t really work as Levitz has to get Jacques to tell us what’s going on. Only one of the two beings communicates in Interlac. He perceives the shuttle as a possible threat and throws it into the other. That other communicates through empty speech bubbles , and swats the ship away. Considering the research station staff are all dead, and the amount of energy around the two beings, the Legion might have got away early. Of course, the two might not have directly killed the research station staff.

Tinya tries to save the shuttle from being completely destroyed. Since she didn’t keep a safe distance from the creatures, it’s the least she should do. We leave our heroes on a cliff hanger regarding Tinya’s fate from the crash.

We also make a significant enough departure from Giffen’s style that Mahlstedt and Gafford have to just let things take there own course.

It will become more pronounced as the issue continues. Giffen has been experimenting with page layouts since practically his first issue on the book. His pencils become deliberately simpler as his page structure becomes more elaborate, channelling his latest influences.

The first page of this covers a lot of ground. Jan and Cham’s return, an update on Vi, the election results and what Gim and Yera are up to. We also have room for a comedy subplot as Cham teases Thom about Nura being a Durlan and gets a punch for it. Nura appears in a similar pose on the opposite page which brings a smile. Thom’s reaction to having a Durlan sweetheart doesn’t say much for race relations. Neither does Jan’s preference for jokes at the expense of the poor Denebians.

There’s a real split in Cham’s character. Sometimes he’s the analytical detective. Just as often, he’s a complete goof. Then there are his “I keep falling in love with bipeds and getting my heart broken” times as well as his father issue subplots. Later he’d become a mercantile genius too.

Embracing the new style, Nura has taken a team to Khundia for assist with diplomatic talks. It’s a combination of humour and underlying terror. Diplomats can expect to get killed if challenged there. Although a challenger to Blok is purely comic relief. Newer readers would perhaps think that’s what the Khunds were with some appearances around this time, and not realise the direct approach to conquering they’ve taken in the past.

The decision to have the three founders on this mission, continues the trend of showing that the Legion functions with them off to one side. Rokk’s comment, as the three stand there, that Nura “is off with the ambassador” brings home the change in the team. Nura should be the one with the ambassador as she’s the leader. But it seems odd to see three previous leaders and keys to the team kicking their heels.

All three do have to be together for the announcement of Imra’s pregnancy. This, and Tinya and Tasmia later casual remark of Jo and Mon as lovers, again reinforces the maturing of our cast.

Sun Boy was back up on the Webers World mission, and is the same here too. I think this has to partly be due to the recent prominence of Wildfire, through the Academy issue and his Dawny subplot. Since it was Sun Boy who got a lot of attention at the start of Levitz’s run, it’s good to see him move through the cast while still keeping the presence of others seen.

The next sequence combines Giffen’s previous and current approaches quite nicely, while also combining a very nice page layout too. The comedy subplot box with Cham & Thom is reused for a conversation between Tinya and Tasmia, as the ship quietly tracks the energy across the stars.

Tinya has survived by going intangible at the last moment. She has saved the shuttle, but only for it to be blasted out of the sky again as the team track the energy to Corvan IV (quiet energy trail set up visuals and then boom! On the next page. Nice).

The attack on the legion cruiser is a really good page from Giffen, following the action anticlockwise around the page. Little Giffen telltales from this period are all over this one too. The close up on the eye; and only seeing Tinya’s legs in the bottom panel, as the action spreads beyond its boundaries. Later we’d have a speaking Sun Boy get his head blocked out by another panel.

Both crashes could have been combined with no impact on the plot.

Each of the team gets a chance to show their distinctive skills against the Corvan’s security. I do think Jacques invisibility comes across as teleportation on the page. We don’t see the shuttle swerve as it can’t find him. If it had flown straight on, Jacques would still have been caught in the explosion. It’s good to see him sweat under such circumstances.

Tasmia is showing a playful streak, from her barb to Brin recently to playing with an opponent here. I like her distinctive appearance here, and she seems cheerier having avoided the death the Adult Legion story had planned for her.

We see Brin’s direct approach and how his animalistic visuals work.

Tinya has a few spotlight moments this issue. Of the four, she’s shows herself to be the team leader. Of course, she did get too close to the creatures the first time, and she’d completely forget about how to escape crashing shuttles at the end of v7 when it was Dirk’s turn to try and land one. :sad:

Tinya and Tasmia are aware that they are without their normal partners for this mission. It does have a bearing on how they approach the situation, and it’s nice to see them shine.

I say shine, but there’s a torrential downpour on Corvan IV. Points to the team for this. How often do you see weather conditions play a natural part in a book (environmental disasters aside). They ruin Jacques powers too, to a point.

Tinya gets a chance to talk with Jacques as they proceed with their mission to investigate the energy. Tinya remarks that Jacques’ comment reminds her of Lyle. Lyle felt close to Tinya before his death, partly due to their powers, and shared his dreams about Myla to her (SBoy #203 – Look It Up Lad). Jacques shares some of his insecurity about being a less than “mighty” Legionnaire (that sweat had a pay off!). Tinya’s “I don’t think ‘mightier’ powers ever made anyone a more valuable Legionnaire.” is an excellent reminder about what’s at the core of the team.

Even if facing off against the likes of Darkseid makes things look like the stakes are higher, they did face down Mordru and the Trapper back in the day, with just as much at risk.

Brin is not having the best of times. Both Tinya and Tasmia think about not wanting to be anywhere close to him. Tasmia goes a bit further than this, making sure that Birn keeps his distance. Tinya and Tasmia are close friends and you can see their interpretation of events on the Khundia mission being perceived as what happened on the asteroid. Garth has firmly closed the door on the event, leading Imra away. As a result of being emotionally out of his depth with Imra, Brin’s now looked down on a bit by at least some of the team. He’s off form (breaking things and sleeping on duty) and spends time in a light comedy with Blok.

The natives of Corvan IV are being warned of an approaching world threatening enemy by a telepathic glow. They are spellbound, and even Jacques is, when he gets close enough to it. That makes him visible and Tinya has to save him from a rampaging crowd of terrified locals. She’s making good use of her powers and is looking out for her team mate…

… and that’s enough of that. Ultra Boy and Mon El arrive in time to rescue the pair, who didn’t need rescuing. Away from Jo for five minutes showed Tinya as a considerate, capable leader with an excellent grasp of her abilities. So, it’s back into the sub group for her

Back on Khundia, the preparations for diplomatic talks are in place and are about to begin (Giffen silhouetting figures in naturally…for now! )… the negotiations are going to be tense… when the Khunds break them off at the last moment. One of the energy beings has arrived above their planet, and destroys a war fleet. Which is a shame since he then tells everyone they’re going to have to destroy his master, if they want to survive.

Behind the figure come Tinya’s team. Although it’s now Jo and Lar you see (fah!)

The last page nearly works. Lar’s vision is supposed to lead your eyes down to his speech. From there, it should have been up and then across to the right. But the borders take it out of sequence.

The trailing team could easily have been placed a couple of pages before, leaving the reveal of one of the energy beings to the last page.

“Harken! The enemy shall soon be among you! I, Norrin Radd warn you of the coming of Galactus!”

Next issue, Reed Richards joins the Legion as Elastic Lad II!

It’s an okay ( quite mixed) opener for a cosmic multi-part tale, and it’s bolstered by all of the solid Legion character moments in the book.

Both main subplots combine, which is not a bad thing at all, but the only other one (we’ve been spoiled for subplots recently) is Jan’s reaction to not being leader. It provides a lighter touch compared to the grimmer looking main plot (both in writing and art), but it’s light to the point of fluff.

I didn’t get around to reading the Subs special. I do wonder how much of Giffen’s approach to that book, and how successful it might have been, has creeped into this. When it was the JL, initial success was put down to the humour, taking it too far in one direction without a bit of editorial slapping.

The villains are powered by the Mighty Plot! They travel together. But only one turns up at the end, with no clue as to why they separated. Likewise, there’s no connection made between how this figure got to Khundia in one form, but appeared as another on Corven IV with vastly different powers. The Prophet seems keen to warn people about the interference of the Omen of Doom. But it was the Prophet who got the Omen to act against the Legion in the first place, by slamming their shuttle off it.

Unusually, there’s a couple of pages that don’t work here. Levitz looks to have had to add a bit of dialogue to cover for it. I wonder how the art changes were discussed. I remember reading Levitz mentioning Giffen looking to expand etc.

But there are a lot of absolute winners:-
-Tinya’s initial shuttle crash combines the second vertical panel from the right (the tip of the landscape) with the first horizontal panel (the ship crashing on it)
-Following the energy trail in a quiet moment/ combining it with the conversation in the ship, and the anti clockwise action in the following page
-Jo’s “rescue” sweeping him across the panels and back to the original one on page 18
-The Legion HQ silhouette behind the panels on page 6 and the rainstorm forming a background to page 15.
- Tinya’s intangibility taking her stylistically out of the panel border in page 17

Another side effect from the changes, at least in this issue, is the panel density. It would really become part of v4, but Giffen moves from 5/6 panels in the old style up to 12.

The pair were the senior Legionnaires, and without their lovers there, they had to use some of their other skills for a pleasant change.



Although Tinya did try to save the shuttle thinking that she wouldn’t want to be stuck on an asteroid with Brin. With Tasmia, Brin knows where he stands, or huddles in a cave in this case. He doesn’t know with Tinya, yet.



If the leadership election were after this issue, she might have picked up some more votes.

Black Witch 12
Blok 22
Brainiac 5 37
Chameleon Boy 13
Colossal Boy 11
Cosmic Boy 21
Dawnstar 32
Dream Girl 52
Element Lad 77
Invisible Kid II 10
Lightning Lad 6
Mon-El 22
Phantom Girl 29
Saturn Girl 16
Shadow Lass 21
Shrinking Violet 8
Star Boy 16
Sun Boy 36
Timber Wolf 30
Ultra Boy 40
Wildfire 24



I groaned when the panel hogs appeared. ;smile:




And



There’s more comedy in this issue than before, which is partly why I wondered about it being off the back of Giffen’s Subs special. With Jan, his lack of interest could be down to his decision to quit as deputy. After that, he’s been involved with the Vi case and is focused on Shvaughn. It’s probably the first time he’s not been focused on the Legion, and he’s enjoying the break. I also imagine a team with Tenzil and Chuck will have had some off panel pranks previously, and Jan’s response might also be partly due to that.

But both scenes are played for laughs, which isn’t that common in the book. You’re right about the timing too. It’s poking fun not only at Year/ impostors but at Vi too. But it’s a visual gag.



Another scene strong in comedy value, at the expense of the Khunds.



There’s a Lost Tale of the Legion where a recovering Vi discovers that the SP Officers and prosecutors were all Durlan agents too, and wreaks her vengeance on them. Realising that Yera was a dupe in their plot too, means that she lets Yera off when they finally meet.

(My Autocarrot keeps changing Yera to Year! Grrr)



I wonder if the fans who were happy at their post marriage return, sighed at the news.



I’d forgotten that we’d seen Corvan before. Considering the met the arrival fo the Five as godlike and the feted the Legion, perhaps they are still prone to the arrival of things from the skies.



I read it as Jacques being entranced by the glow and its message. So much so, that he stopped focusing on keeping his power active.

Didn't put you to sleep, so that's a plus. Looking forward to your analysis.



Could be a case of vote meddling/Lost Tales. One of the rescue team voted for her, using her limp, helpless finger to activate the voter i.d. because they knew, if she'd been able, she would have voted for Jan.




It didn't strike me as a comedy scene, but you're right, it was. It made the Khunds look like jerks more than dangerous, battle-clever opponents.



True, they've been conditioned to expect strange beings from the skies. You have to wonder what their religious rites might be.

Right. Now I’m wondering how many other issues have opened/will open with this sort of scene.



Also Tasmia’s reaction here struck me as not fitting the Planetary Champion image – a little too squeamish – and her comment that Brainy would have no problem with the mess is a bit of a barb as well, that he’s so unemotional it wouldn’t bother him. Good point about the consistency of Tinya’s reaction to slaughter and to Jacques’ beliefs as well.



You’d like to have been a fly on the wall when they first got these pages to ink and colour....



Missed the similar poses for Cham/Nura. And we never did get an answer to the Denebian joke.



Something else else about unconstant body shape may lead to fluctuating personality.



They almost have emeritus positions. The seniors as consultants, not active players.



Good point about the teleportation. A misstep in the story or another facet of Jacques’ not-fully-explored power?



I’d wondered about the sleeping on duty thing, but it makes sense as you frame it, that Brin is off his game as a result of the turmoil of the asteroid incident and Ayla leaving. We’ll see if it continues. (The next positive scene that I recall for Brin is as executor of Karate Kid’s will, quite a few issues from now.)



Really! All they needed was a ship, which they seem to have borrowed from Corvanians.



It’s not clear if Prophet is serving the other figure (he does call him Master) or double-crossing him – or referring to an entirely separate enemy from either of them. In the Darkseid saga, we met the servants first, but it was very clear that they were serving one Master.



You highlight all the pages which made the art quite interesting and why I’d have high hopes for this arc. So we have found something positive!

307:

After reading thoth’s and FC’s comments and flipping through the issue just now, the word that came to my mind was “busy.” It’s a very busy issue, yet little is accomplished apart from setting up the next pair of villains. It reads like a generic Marvel comic which builds toward a Big Reveal, but, in this case, the Big Reveal isn’t that impressive.

I mean, sure, the Prophet takes out the entire Khund fleet, but we’ve seen villains demonstrate similar prowess before. And the Prophet makes gloomy prophecies about an even bigger threat, but we’ve seen that before, too. The only thing which stands out about these villains so far is the pseudo-religious trappings of the Prophet: He’s dressed like a monk or priest, and the full page spread of his reveal is framed by rune-like borders. Alas, we’ve seen villains borrow from religious iconography before, too.

By the way, if you look closely at the squiggly runes, you can make out words: “Fred,” “I killed Fred Hembeck,” and “Dicked” stand out. While planting Easter eggs in comics can be fun, here it comes across as if Giffen is just making a joke of it all—and that, unfortunately, is also how the issue comes across to me: as a parody of what Levitz and Giffen had achieved.

There are many good aspects, as thoth pointed out in his review. Giffen’s art becomes highly experimental in this issue, and some experiments work quite well, such as Ultra Boy flying in an arc on Page 18. Another effective layout is Page 10, which consists of Shady and P.G. merely talking; the panel arrangements, black backgrounds and white space complement the close-ups of their faces and lead us into the impressive shot of Corvan IV.

Other experimental layouts work against the content or overshadow it entirely, such as the action sequence on pp. 3-4 and the ship crashing on Page 11. When the shapes of panels are more noticeable than the action being depicted, it looks like style is marching right over substance.

Also, cramming as many panels on a page as you possibly can is not, in my view, an artistic achievement. The pacing is off several times in this issue because there are too many images to look at and too much going on. (In an interview, Giffen once claimed that having so many panels gave the reader more story. But story does not consist of a bunch of things happening. Sometimes less is more.)

All of these artistic “achievements” make this more clearly Giffen’s issue than Levitz’s. Perhaps this is why the issue feels thin as far as the story goes. Previous issues gave us what we expected in terms of building the super-hero action story, but they also gave us something more—something that furthered subplots or deepened our understanding of the Legion’s universe. Very little of that is attempted here, and what is attempted amounts to jokes (Element Lad doesn’t realize he’s won the election, a Khund challenges Blok, etc.)

There are some truly nice moments, though, such as Garth and Imra dropping the news that they are going to be parents (a nicely understated revelation, like the revelation that “Vi” was an impostor), and P.G.’s interaction with Jacques, as I mentioned in my previous post. But whereas such moments were the centerpieces of earlier issues, here they are not given the weight they are due. They seem “shoe-horned” into an issue that prefers to focus on grand artistic experiments.

307 is not as bad as I remembered, but it feels like a long slow slide is taking place mid issue. Whereas the first three pages set up a conventional story in a conventional manner, the rest of the issue slowly abandons a coherent narrative for artistic expression. I’m all for experimentation, but not at the expense of storytelling. I'm biased in this regard: The art should serve the narrative, not the other way around.

Missed the message in the squigglies. Kill Fred Hembeck? Fred must have done a Giffen sketch. Jacques' advice to Brin to treat things seriously might be welcome here.



It is easier to get caught up in and wowed by the layout and overlook story weaknesses. I did think that "more story" was well fit into some pages, such as the 16 panel page used to show the four heroes battling the Corvan ships.



The letter page regarding this issue (in #313) mentioned the experimentation and also pointed out that Giffen took some time off to work on a Superboy issue and to welcome his new-born son. (Kind of a nice touch to have the pregnancy announcement coincide with this real life event.) Omen/Prophet was also meant to be 3 issues, but back-ups were added to accommodate the interruptions. So maybe things weren't as polished as they might have been in the art/narrative collaboration. (Also, two letters mentioned the Tinya-Jacques exchange as a highlight of the issue. I wouldn't dispute that.)

That was one of the pages I had a problem with. There's too much going on, and the panels appear small and cramped. I also wasn't sure whether to read the panels horizontally or vertically at first. The black panel borders and narrow white strips indicate that they should be read vertically, but I had to stop to figure this out. Anything that stops the reader is not good.

This page is the equivalent of jump-cutting in films: jumping quickly between action and characters' reactions. It works in film because the viewer is still focusing on one image at a time. On a page, to me, it's overwhelming.




Thanks for providing the context.

It's great that the editor was willing to accommodate Giffen's family situation, but I've worked in a professional setting for a few years now, and we've had a number of faculty members who have taken maternity leave or had to take off for medical situations or unexpected issues. There is always a backup plan in place: someone to cover classes. Also, it's great to take on another assignment, but one's primary job should come first. This environment has spoiled me. I expect more from businesses, even comic book companies. The editor should have had a backup plan to minimize disruption to the story and audience. It doesn't look like this was the case.

Tamia is made of sterner stuff than this. Perhaps being with Tinya, Jo and Lar is softening her up a little.



HWW’s comments made me think about the impact the returning art had on Levitzs’ writing. Not only in the dialoguing, but in the plotting discussions. There seems to be definite transition points. SO, it’s not as though Giffen woke up one morning, hit his head, and started doing a dozen clockwise eyeball reaction shots. If there was an element of uncertainty, I could easily see a pro like Levitz providing more space for Giffen to work in. Perhaps at the expense of a column in the paradigm chart, but probably just structured a little looser.




They complained to their embassy before the punchline



That’s just how I think of Cham. I do think he takes on personality traits depending on the role he’s trying to fulfil. For example, his 5YG role in Brande Industries wasn’t necessarily something he started with, but was something he could emulate.







I just think that it’s tough to spend panel time showing someone who isn’t there, evade a ship and then have that ship plough into another one. So, going invisible ends of as shorthand for going invisible and flying as fast as your little flight ring can carry you.




That’s a good point. There seems to be a different dynamic at work here, and it’s not defined satisfactorily. The Prophet’s attack on the shuttle certainly doesn’t fit with his later appearance. Double crossing is a good take on it. That’s deeper than I was reading it. But then I read it for the ‘plosions



Yay!




And Men Would Call Him Jaded Lad! He wasn’t the first they had called Jaded Lad. There had been many across the aeons, with many adventures in many formats. If they were honest, they were just calling people Jaded Lad out of habit really…




I missed them, but still wondered if Giffen’s Subs book wasn’t having an adverse effect.




Pacing is interesting in these issues. The rush of Giffen releasing so many page compositions means that each page can be markedly different to its predecessor. I think we mentioned a couple that don’t work in helping the story. But the remainder work well enough to take the reader down and across where necessary. The number of panels has certainly increased. I guess the impact will vary between readers and their preferences. I did notice on pages 11 and 16, reaction shots to the main panel. So, you not only spend time looking at the main action, but also get a glimpse of how people respond around it. They are small, and I didn’t find they got in the way. But, by the very nature of being additional panels, will slow up the reader to some degree. That, and the page compositions ae turning it into a different reading experience.




He may have said it more than once, but I remember this being in the context of v4’s nine panel grid. I think the reasoning went that it was a way to fit a lot of additional text, and scenes into the book.



It didn’t help that this is an opening chapter that’s trying to build suspense and mystery to a larger plot, and also has fewer subplots than we’ve been getting in quite a while. I do wonder if Giffen had a chat with Levitz during the plotting. Perhaps he asked for plenty of space as he was going to try lots of new things. Perhaps Levitz cut a few things down as a result. Certainly, that balance (which comic readers don’t get too often) isn’t quite the same.




I’m not sure that the GDS didn’t also give similar length to the subplots going on at the time. I did enjoy the time Tinya spent with Jacques. It was Lar and Jo who spoiled that, rather than the Prophet.



I agree, and that mid-point is just when Giffen makes that deliberate move. I think it’s more than the art change in itself. There’s a couple of pages that don’t work (which isn’t great, after such a good run). But the art seems to have had an impact on the writing, and that Levitz has suffered a bit due to the changes too.



Thanks for bravely traveling to the strange, mutant filled, warped future of issue #313 to bring back this news! I’ve just read the next issue, and that interruption is even more apparent.

“Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit my visual narrative style.”



And



This page struck me as being, visually, the odd one out in the issue. It’s also a big leap from the page opposite it. The film strip look to it certainly reinforces that jump cut feel to it.

That said, it’s a clever (well, thought out and different if you prefer ) combination of film and comic styles. The comic reader wants to go left to right, but the strips push the eyes down each vertical. So, you follow how Shady dealt with her opponent. But you can check how the others were doing at certain synchronised points in the same battle.

I just went with the vertical, with a sneaky eye open to the rest of the page. The blue shuttles in each of the four opening panels are a deliberate visual anchoring point from Giffen, to show the reader that it’s the same point for everyone in the battle. It’s a page you can go back to enjoy the same action in more than one way. Different edits to the same scene.



You’re absolutely right, HWW. The environment has spoiled you

I'll gladly cop to being spoiled in terms of expecting more from businesses. I'll also 'fess up to being jaded in terms of expecting something unique or different from every story.

It's an interesting notion that the art influenced the writing on this issue. Giffen said in the same interview I mentioned that he and Levitz never sat down and plotted anything, but they discussed the story and Giffen was free to add his own bits (I'm going from memory here). Whatever the extent of their collaboration, it certainly seems like the art is taking over the story. You're right that Page 16 is a different reading experience and a very clever one (in addition to the blue ships at the top of each strip, we have each Legionnnaire's reaction at the bottom, providing a sense of unity and closure). While I love to go back and study this page after the fact, I felt it inhibited the flow of the reading. Good artistic innovations should enhance the reading, not detract from it. Giffen isn't there yet (and I don't know if he ever will be).

The quote about more story did indeed refer to the nine-panel grids in v.4, but I think it applies here, especially to the 16-panel "film strips." There's a tendency among novice writers of prose fiction to think they have to put in every detail--to describe the weather, the house, the frost on the windshield, the dress the main character is wearing, etc.--but only details which create a dominant impression are usually needed, and they can be worked in as needed. My personal beef with Page 16 is that everything is given equal weight in this 16-panel grid. Nothing is emphasized, so nothing stands out. Again, it's a great experiment but one which does not serve the story. One of the hard lessons I've learned as a writer is to throw out that vivid description or that brilliant dialogue if it doesn't contribute something to the story. Less is more.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Just to pick nits even further ( ), I had no problem with Tasmia's reaction to the carnage--even planetary champions have to draw the line somewhere. And Cham's playful side seems to be a residue of his thrill at getting his powers back. This doesn't contradict your and Cramey's interpretation, but I think it shows how underdeveloped the Legionnaires have been over the years when personality traits such as disgust and humor seem aberrations.

I fully agree. I think the basic concept, with its Very-Levitz combination of Metaphysics 101 and Marvel-style melodrama, was all Levitz's, and Giffen basically spends the whole storyline mocking it. Which makes me wonder more than ever why Levitz and editor Karen Berger gave Giffen so much leeway so early-on, or at least didn't make a more concerted effort to rein him in once it became obvious he was out of control. I've never read the Legion Companion, or, really, any interviews related to the Levitz/Giffen era, because these days I tend to take anything a still-active creator or editor says publicly with a boulder-sized grain of salt. I'm not saying we should get all the gory details (Gods know I've had my fill of tabloid-style behind-the-scenes gossip, and where I once found it sinfully delicious, now it makes me ill.) But a bit more measured candor would be nice, in my opinion.

That’s how I recall it too HWW. Having read a few Levitz plots that he gave to Giffen, they can be quite brief. There’s a lot of room for Giffen to explore/exploit.

From all of our comments, it looks as though it’s a combination of things. Well, a combination of things revolving around Giffen

The story perhaps being spread across more issues than it usually would, Giffen’s personal life, including things like that poster, discussing/ using his new style etc.

One that hasn’t come up (I think), but Levitz may have hinted at somewhere, is the shadow of Darkseid. Or rather, the weight of the Great Darkness Saga on the Levitz/Giffen run and the desire to create another epic story. If you add a deliberate reach for a story type, in addition to the above, perhaps the results aren’t unexpected.



I do agree that it got in the way due to its sharp change of design. But, as you say, it’s a YMMV regarding how much of a derail it was.



I think we’re already seeing Giffen going the other way, from elaborate detail, artistically. Previous issues have shown him add a huge amount of detail to panels, giving us immersive landscapes for the Legion to inhabit. The more he moves into lumpy, stained buildings, eyeball closeups and shadow effects, the further he’s moving away from that. How well it comes across is something else we’ll discuss. But one aspect of the artists he’s looking at, is a deconstruction of both page and panel in how the story is told. That tends towards a minimalistic approach in practice. To be fair, this issue shows a lot of other ideas being used. He’s using too many really, as he’s giddy with a rush of new artistic influence.



There’s an upcoming scene that shows the Legionnaires tackle things individually. The story would have been better served having one or the other. The scene-to-come (for I am the Prophet of next issue. Gaze into my Glowy eyes! ) actually misses out one of the team. So, given the choice, I’m all for the equal opportunity offered by this page.



I’d agree that needless story bloat should often be removed. But there’s always another side to it. Quite often, stories flow well, and adhere to fully functional plots, yet leave no lasting impression. “I managed to read it in two hours, but it just didn’t grab me.” It turns out that it was the vivid descriptions and bits of brilliant dialogue that were the hooks to the story. Instead of reworking the tale to get the best of both, the writer selects to have something more mundane.

I remember reading an anecdote form a studio executive. The gist of it was that he would receive 99, functional scripts showing excellent typing and grammar and a solid grasp of plotting. Those would be binned. The 100th script, scrawled practically in crayon and with a meandering plot would be the one to keep. That was because it had something that would reach out and grab an audience. Everything else, from plotting to dialogue could be reworked. They had plenty of people to do that.



Good points on both. They had cardboard characters back in the old days.

Love the description!



People always tend to recount old stories in ways that make them look good. It's human nature. And human memory is a funny thing. I got to interview a few early members of Jefferson Airplane years ago, and it was interesting to note how their versions of events differed from the established narrative. It's not that anyone deliberately lied (though they may have), but our own personal narratives tend to recast events to protect our egos and justify the opinions we already hold. I just read two excellent books by Jonathan Haidt on this subject.

Even so, I think there's a lot to be gleaned from creator interviews, even if they must be taken with a grain or two of salt.



It's always hard to come up with that next big blockbuster! This is one of the reasons I admired Star Wars: The Last Jedi for taking a very different approach in its conclusion.

In order to up the ante, Levitz went from using a god-like villain to one who is so alien his speech patterns and motivations are indecipherable. But I don't think it was really necessary to up the ante. The story lines which have resonated with me the most during this run have featured ordinary criminals (the fireballers) and revolutionaries (the Imskians). What he really needed was a super-villain with a very strong and different motivation (say, protecting the universe from spoiled, elitist hero-types. )

Your point about a script being perfectly written but mundane is well taken. It will be interesting, as we go through the rest of the Omen story, to see if there are indeed aspects which reach out and grab us (in a good way. )

Levitz has stated in a few interviews, that he doesn’t feel that he created any really big villains. Perhaps it’s something that was used as criticism, or perhaps he felt it was something he should bring to the table. But buoyed by the success of the GDS, the royalty programme and the upcoming Legion plans, maybe he felt this was a good time for this story. We’ll see if it comes off

Wolman and Perez, also getting some Baxter news and top seller status, were experimenting with storylines and the physical and vocal presentation of their cast. Nothing new there. We’ve seen previous Legion artists look at body shapes etc. But I think that the success of both books bought them space to do this, while the royalty programme allowed them to focus their attention.

So, I’m wondering if the lack of vocalisation for The Omen was a Legion attempt at the sort of things Perez would do with Jericho.

As for that focus, perhaps this took a wobble as Giffen looked at Omega Men and other one shots.

I’m really enjoying reading the other views on the book during this these changes. It’s fascinating to see what works (and doesn’t) for each of us, and why.

#308 Prophecy of Doom/And the Sky Itself Shall Burn by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, Larry Mahlstedt Inker, Carl Gafford colours, John Costanza Letters



On Khundia, Prophet delivers more of his message of doom, in Old Testament prophet-speak, amid the wreckage of Khundian ships and weapons. He sees demons and commands artillery to fire on them. Lar and Jo approach through the blasts, Lar wondering if they’re the demons he sees. Brin, Tinya and Tasmia follow, each using what powers they have to disable or evade the missiles. Prophet directs some sort of energy at Lar and Jo as they approach him.

Elsewhere on Khundia, Nura’s team sits and waits since Relnic has forbidden them to leave the Embassy. Nura moans about her hair. Relnic brings news that one man and six Legionnaires have attacked Khundia, which further endangers diplomatic relations. The Legionnaires are doubtful, but Relnic orders them to stay quiet and let him try to explain.

Dawnstar travels through pscyhedelic space on her soul mate journey. She is discouraged and decides to go to her naming place, the Dawn Star.

Prophet puts a hold on the six Legionnaires who have followed him from Corvan IV and recounts his backstory. He was a pastor on Trewsk (and father of Jacques’ friend) who left for a conference and returned to find Trewsk destroyed by space creatures, just as the suns exploded. In despair, he flew into the nova but, instead of dying, was met by “the omen of my doom”, an all-powerful being, and was transformed into the Prophet. He knew that he must warn the universe of the threat of Omen. Mon-el, freed from the Prophet’s spell, attacks him, only to find that his punch has no effect. Prophet hurls him into a wall.

At Legion HQ, Thom continues to moan about Dream Girl’s absence. Wildfire enters and admonishes him, then proceeds to check the Mission Monitor Board, viewing the activities of various Legionnaires. When he views Dawnstar, he is angry with himself.

Back on Khundia, Prophet announces that Omen is approaching and must be destroyed.

Back-up: Guess What’s Coming to Dinner by Paul Levitz & Keith Giffen, art by George Tuska & Larry Mahlstedt, Carl Gafford Colors, Adam Kubert Letters

Gim Allon is about to introduce Yera to his parents for the first time. Marte Allon, in her office as Earthgov president, prepares to leave for this family dinner. She advises her assistant to remind Chief Zendak of an item he promised for that evening and puts off until morning Relnic’s report on Khundia.

At home, Marte prepares the table. She and husband Winn greet Gim and Yera. Gim announces their marriage; Marte is so surprised she drops a bowl. After supper, Winn seems pleased with the couple but Marte questions them. She claims that this puts her in a difficult position politically, since Durlans aren’t very popular. Yera asks why her race is so disliked, then proceeds to change into a number of different creatures. Marte responds that it’s not just the shape-changing, but Durla’s hostility to outsiders and their insularity. The debate continues over coffee. Yera agrees that Durlans who remain on Durla aren’t doing anything to improve their lives, but that’s their choice, just as her parents chose to leave.

Two Science Police officers arrive with a package for Marte. Gim assumes it’s a file on Yera and is annoyed with his mother. She gives Yera the package for inspection; it turns out to be a beautiful life crystal necklace. Yera is speechless as Gim hugs his mother.

Later, Marte and Winn discuss the evening in bed, pleased with how things went. Marte says that she picked the life crystal out when she first heard from the Science Police that Gim and Yera were secretly married, a month earlier. She wonders if their children will be raised Jewish.


Comments:
Our favourite action hogs burst off the cover as Brin, Tasmia and Tinya stand behind the wreckage. While I bemoan Lar and Jo taking all the action while others stand by, it makes for a dynamic scene. The actual story does show the other three participating. Or was that the other four? Relnic mentioned six Legionnaires arriving on Khundia, but I only saw five – had to think back, Jacques was with them. Forgotten by the artist? Invisible, of course. Some exposition here, such as “Jacques, stay invisible for defensive purposes” would have solved this problem.

And then, we begin wading through the swamp. Prophet’s monologue/backstory is hard to follow, even for a comic book, but I was willing to roll with the idea of some supreme being transforming him. However, I’m still not clear if he’s been sent with a message from Omen, or is expressing his own fears.

It’s all very repetitive. Legionnaires attack, get knocked down, Prophet repeats his “doom is coming” message.

Relnic puts his team of Legionnaires in lock-down, so they’re pretty much out of the picture for this issue. Nura complains about her hair (again; it’s either hair or nails).

Thom complains about Nura. Again. Wildfire snoops on other Legionnaires via the Monitor Board and loses his cool when he sees Dawnstar. Again.

Dawnstar gets a full page full of pretty colours, just to let us know that she’s still looking for Mr. Right.

All in all, not much happens. We get two one-panel plot updates: Brainy is still working on a cure for Danielle and Vi still looks really bad (although Wildfire doesn’t think so). Mysa and Cham are testing new high-security cells on Takron-Galtos, which may or may not be a new plot.

The back-up story is thankfully simple and direct. Meet the in-laws. Gim has shown himself to be a bit socially clumsy in the past, and somewhat at odds with his mother, so it’s not entirely odd that he springs the news of his marriage on them without warning and well after the fact.

The title, a take on the movie about a black man meeting his white in-laws for the first time, is sort of insulting to Yera, calling her a “what” instead of “who”. Supposed to be a joke, I guess, or reflect the hostility and prejudice of some of the U.P. regarding Durlans.

That Marte Allon knew all along that Gim had married makes her act of being surprised quite devious. The women in Gim’s life do like to trick him, don’t they? You wonder why she didn’t call him in and ask him directly when the SPs told her he was secretly married. At some point, she must have also been told that new daughter-in-law was not Vi, but a Durlan imposter. Was she getting back at Gim for hiding this from her? And did he even think he could hide this from the President?

Using the Science Police (Zendak and officers) to procure and deliver Yera’s gift rubbed me the wrong way. Did the taxpayer pay for it? Did it come out of the evidence locker?

We do learn a bit about attitudes towards Durla and all’s well that ends well.

Apart from a smile at the end, Marte looks like a robot, expressionless. That struck me as creepy. Winn Allon was a bit of a non-entity, but a pleasant non-entity.

I have had more to say about the little back-up story than the main event.