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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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And Super Sons? As we approach the finish line for the book,at least as it has existed so far, it’s been on my mind a lot lately. Y'know, I was prepared to really adore Super Sons, but I wasn't really all that into it. Part of it is that Damien Wayne just is not a likable character. He's a real shit, honestly! Some people find that endearing, but it grates on me. It seems like I'm always waiting for him to break character, but it never happens in any substantial way. And with Jon, they're trying to mine a junior version of the Odd Couple vibe with Jon being the naive dullard to Damien's acerbic know-it-all--a kid version of the dynamic between their dads. It just doesn't work for me. The underlying problem is that the only reason these two team up is because of who their dads are. You want to see something real between the kids that gives them a reason to work together beyond their parentage, and it never happens. It's perhaps implied that Damien's curmudgeonly ways belie a real need for companionship, but I don't really ever feel it in the story. I need an emotional connection as a reader to feel invested in their story, and I'm just not getting it. I bought volume 2 before reading the first one. Now, I kinda wish I hadn't. I mean, it's not unreadable, but it definitely lacks that x-factor that makes me a loyal reader. I hope I've explained well enough where that disconnects lies.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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It makes sense. Not every book can connect with every reader. I think maybe the current 12-issue maxi would address some of your concerns, but it’s not like it becomes a radically different book, so maybe not enough.
Ann, did you read Dan Slott’s short-lived thing series that pulled very heavily on a MTiO vibe?
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
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I think if I had a more personal connection to the story, like if I'd read and enjoyed it when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have turned the book in. Okay. Thanks for clarifying, Lardy. I would say that, yes, I do have a personal connection to the story. I wasn't a kid when I read it, but I was about 20 or 21 when I bought the trade in the mid-90s, at a time when I was getting increasingly disillusioned with the superhero comics which were then current, so it felt like a breath of fresh air -- clean enough the counter the grim n gritty bombast trend, while still being recent enough (15 years old at the time) to not feel retrograde. Also, as I've said a couple times in other threads in this forum, back when Marvel only selected certain stories for trades, the paper stock was more appealing to me than the one they've been using since the early 2000s, the colors look much better to me. Sadly, I've yet to read a Thundra story that lives up to the potential I see in the character, and here was the latest miss. Agreed. There just never seems to be any follow-through with her, and that goes all the way back to her first appearance, as Medusa's replacement in the Frightful Four during the early Bronze Age. John Buscema did some of his very best F4 art in the 2-parter which introduced her (somewhere around F4 issue 130, IIRC,) and set her up as intriguingly mysterious, but by the time the mysteries were revealed, Roy Thomas had been replaced as F4 writer by Gerry Conway, and even though the two writers were friends, it seems obvious in hindsight that what ended up being published was not quite as good at what we might have seen if Thomas had stayed. Also, my personal introduction to Thundra was the Polemachus 2-parter during my beloved Epting/Harras Avengers run (358-359,) but after making a tremendous first impression, she's sidelined when the villain gets the drop on her towards the end of the first half, and even though she recovers, she does little to nothing during the second half. So, yeah, a pity she's still waiting for her definitive interpretation after almost 50 years! This isn't really my personal opinion on the two but reflects my impressions of what the general comic-reading public thinks about them. Gruenwald seems revered for his Squadron Supreme work and his work on Quasar (and to a lesser degree for his long run on Cap), while the biggest thing anything ever says about Macchio is the joke about whether or not he's the silver screen's Karate Kid! Squadron Supreme, the 12-issue limited series, is more than a little overrated in my opinion -- as much as the story obviously meant to Gruenwald, the ideas were better than the execution. And that criticism also applies to almost everything else of his writing that I've read. Especially his Captain America -- Ye Gods, has that run dated badly! Having said all that, the SqSu OGN Death of a Universe was a big improvement over the maxi-series, and the Greg Capullo issues of Quasar have a certain verve to them (it's no secret that Quasar would have lasted only 25 issues if Capullo's art hadn't boosted the sales to acceptable levels. And if Capullo hadn't been poached by X-Editorial, who knows how much longer Quasar might have lasted?) It sounds like, at the very least, he has a smaller sample size of writing then Gruenwald had. That much is true. But I reiterate my recommendation of his Black Widow stories, which have been collected in HC trade under the title "Black Widow: Web of Intrigue." It was actually reissued in SC just last year, I think. Plus, well, Gruenwald being dead I'm sure gives him some artificial pomp the way some dead celebrities get who may not necessarily deserve it. And again, agreed. I think you hit the nail on the head: it wasn't full Byrne art, and Perez was more homogenized at the time. Nothing bad about the art--it was pretty much all of what I like about Bronze Age styles but also not all that extraordinary at the same time. If this was like Cockrum or Byrne on the X-Men or Perez circa New Teen Titans or even a solid Gil Kane effort, I probably would have been gushing like crazy! Otherwise, it was well-done but not particularly memorable, kinda like how I feel about Ross Andru and Keith Pollard on Spidey after the giants that they followed Fair enough, although I like Pollard's ASM a bit more than you -- I think issue 200, in particular, is right up there with the best Spidey art of Kane, JR1, and JR2. Ann, did you read Dan Slott’s short-lived thing series that pulled very heavily on a MTiO vibe? Not yet, but thanks for the reminder, BFOB. It's one of those trades that's always been "bubbling under" my list of top-priority library trades, and always seems to get passed over in favor of something else. I'll have to remedy that.
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Squadron Supreme, the 12-issue limited series, is more than a little overrated in my opinion -- as much as the story obviously meant to Gruenwald, the ideas were better than the execution. )
I'm a little afraid to re-read that one. I'm sure the archer guy (Golden Archer?) brainwashing his ex (a Black canary stand-in) to love him again would not play very well. Fair enough, although I like Pollard's ASM a bit more than you -- I think issue 200, in particular, is right up there with the best Spidey art of Kane, JR1, and JR2. Sorry, I guess I kind of baited you with that analogy. As an aside, though, when I re-read ASM 200 last year, it didn't resonate with me the way I hoped it would. I think it comes down to me preferring Uncle Ben's murder being the result of a random home invasion over there being a "real" reason the burglar chose that house.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Been reading my Doom Patrol Omnibus by Grant Morrison and Richard Case. I thought I might just dip my toe in and re-read the first 2 or 3 arcs and put it down a while, but I'm already up to issue 47! I read the run as it originally came out in floppies, and this is my first-ever re-read. 25-odd years later, it reads like its Morrison's masterpiece! I'm LOVING it--even the parts I still don't understand! Glad to hear it. Nothing quite like rediscovering an old favorite. Looking forward to finding out what you think of the run as a whole after you've finished. This is belated, but I really LOVED re-reading the entirety of Grant's DP run. I think when I originally read it, it was kind of losing me in the last third or quarter of the run, but I had no such issues this go-round. Doesn't hurt that I'm around 25 years older for the re-read. There are still many references and themes that are over my head but many less than went originally. I think this DP still feels as fresh as it ever did and was way ahead of its time. It also is definitely my favorite thing of Grant's I've ever read. Here, he combines the some of the best fruits of his boundless imagination while also never losing his focus on developing the main characters. Rebis is a character way ahead of their time. Reading about this character so many years later, I feel like Grant predicted and explored gender fluidity before it became an open discussion. I don't know how much was intentional, but you can easily look around you now and see people wrestling with the same identity issues that Rebis and Rebis's friend (especially Cliff) did. It's at the same time totally different and a perfect allegory for the modern search for gender identity. There's so much I love about this run, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who has yet to experience it. But if anyone wants to discuss any particulars here, go ahead!
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: May 2013
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Wanderer
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Squadron Supreme, the 12-issue limited series, is more than a little overrated in my opinion -- as much as the story obviously meant to Gruenwald, the ideas were better than the execution. )
I'm a little afraid to re-read that one. I'm sure the archer guy (Golden Archer?) brainwashing his ex (a Black canary stand-in) to love him again would not play very well. It doesn't play well, but then it isn't meant to. (I may be misunderstanding what you are saying.) I have always enjoyed the SS limited series but I think I can see what Ann is saying. In lacks some of the punch and bits that drag you in with really great stories. Everything that happens is dramatic, important and significant to the overall concept and plot but it is not a burning page-turner. I still like it but ... yeah I guess I like it more for the idea than the storytelling, like Ann says.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Squadron Supreme, the 12-issue limited series, is more than a little overrated in my opinion -- as much as the story obviously meant to Gruenwald, the ideas were better than the execution. )
I'm a little afraid to re-read that one. I'm sure the archer guy (Golden Archer?) brainwashing his ex (a Black canary stand-in) to love him again would not play very well. It doesn't play well, but then it isn't meant to. (I may be misunderstanding what you are saying.) I understand it was presented as morally reprehensible within the story itself, but now, we'd call it what it was--rape. Coincidentally in a tangential way,I was just reading my GLC: Beware Their Power HC that reprints the Englehard/Staton era. This run features the Hal/Arisia romance that follows her suddenly aging from child to adult, a romance portrayed as a very sexual one. The narrative goes through great lengths to explain the pairing being okay, but it makes you wonder. (Some had similar concerns about Jamie Madrox and Layla Miller in X-Factor, but I felt that one was handled much better, specifically because Layla aged naturally over several years while stranded in the future.)
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Time Trapper
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This is belated, but I really LOVED re-reading the entirety of Grant's DP run. I think when I originally read it, it was kind of losing me in the last third or quarter of the run, but I had no such issues this go-round. Doesn't hurt that I'm around 25 years older for the re-read. There are still many references and themes that are over my head but many less than went originally. That's interesting, since I bogged down on Morrison's DP at some point and wondered if I had to be on drugs or something to follow it. I should give it another go and found an explanatory site that might help.
Holy Cats of Egypt!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Ironically, Morrison was apparently still straight edge a the time of DP, even though many people believed he must be using drugs to create it. Then he started actually taking drugs and creating works that while wildly imaginative, didn't hold together nearly as well as DP as a whole (looking at you, Invisibles)
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
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Fair enough, although I like Pollard's ASM a bit more than you -- I think issue 200, in particular, is right up there with the best Spidey art of Kane, JR1, and JR2. Sorry, I guess I kind of baited you with that analogy. As an aside, though, when I re-read ASM 200 last year, it didn't resonate with me the way I hoped it would. I think it comes down to me preferring Uncle Ben's murder being the result of a random home invasion over there being a "real" reason the burglar chose that house. No need to apologize, my friend. I actually do agree that it was a mistake retconning Uncle Ben's murder so it was no longer a random crime. In spite of that, I think it's still one of Marvel's best anniversary issues of that era, in no small way due to Pollard's art -- at that point, Jim Shooter had been starting to impose on Marvel artists his outdated ideas (osmosed from Mort Weisinger) favoring rigid panel grids and flat layouts. So with the extra pages to work with on ASM 200, Pollard got a rare chance to show how dynamic he could be, and made the most of it.[/quote] I really LOVED re-reading the entirety of Grant's DP run. I think when I originally read it, it was kind of losing me in the last third or quarter of the run, but I had no such issues this go-round. Doesn't hurt that I'm around 25 years older for the re-read. There are still many references and themes that are over my head but many less than went originally.
I think this DP still feels as fresh as it ever did and was way ahead of its time. It also is definitely my favorite thing of Grant's I've ever read. Here, he combines the some of the best fruits of his boundless imagination while also never losing his focus on developing the main characters.
Rebis is a character way ahead of their time. Reading about this character so many years later, I feel like Grant predicted and explored gender fluidity before it became an open discussion. I don't know how much was intentional, but you can easily look around you now and see people wrestling with the same identity issues that Rebis and Rebis's friend (especially Cliff) did. It's at the same time totally different and a perfect allegory for the modern search for gender identity.
There's so much I love about this run, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who has yet to experience it. But if anyone wants to discuss any particulars here, go ahead! Agreed on Rebis. Obviously Rachel Pollack intuited the same qualities, as Kate Godwin got her Coagula powers from having intercourse with Rebis. I also agree that this is still Morrison's best showing as far as characterization goes. I was recommending this run to an older friend who hadn't read DP since the Silver Age, and he said, "Oh, I couldn't stand that jerk Robotman." So, of course, I said, "Give it a chance, because Morrison made him a fully rounded, sympathetic man." I'm actually seeing him tonight at a chat group, I'll ask him if he's read any of Grant's DP yet. All that said, I still think the outer-space arc is a meandering, overlong bore. And, without spoiling anything, the ending of the second Brotherhood of Dada arc still kinda bothers me. But that last issue, so naturalistic and sepia-toned in contrast to the previous issues, and focusing on the most memorable of the characters Grant created, is to me the epitome of how a writer can best close her or his run on a comic book series.
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
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Ironically, Morrison was apparently still straight edge a the time of DP, even though many people believed he must be using drugs to create it. Then he started actually taking drugs and creating works that while wildly imaginative, didn't hold together nearly as well as DP as a whole (looking at you, Invisibles) Agreed on Invisibles, but what about Flex Mentallo? At the very least, I think the drugs were beneficial to him at that particular point, even if in the long run it did hurt the overall quality of his work. I also think that Morrison is generally better at mini-series and one-shots than at long-form projects. Among other things, he often seems to lose interest in the final, most crucial stretch (he has admitted that that's exactly what happened with his X-Men run.)
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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I agree. Anything longer than 2 years (I’d say Animal Man was the longest run NOT to have this problem) tends to have a couple of great years, then a tepid middle age, then pull itself together for a fantastic finale. I’d say that’s true of Doom Patrol, X-Men and Invisibles, although on the last even the end was a bit of a mess. I haven’t read JLA or Batman in their entirety, but it FEELS true for what bits I’ve read.
Shorter projects don’t seem to have that period where he loses the plot then regains it. Minis like Flex, and short to medium projects like Animal Man and The Filth, which imho was the book Invisibles was trying to be.
Honestly, is there ANYTHING he’s written for more than three years that wouldn’t benefit from being cut down to that length? Maybe Zenith, which I still haven’t read. Even Doom Patrol, which I love, I think would be even stronger if the run from, say, 37-63 were trimmed to half the length.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
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I haven't read Zenith, either. I know Thoth Lad has, and I seem to remember him saying in a different thread in this forum that he thought Morrison was phoning in the later installments of Zenith. He hasn't been here much recently, but hopefully he'll be back soon. Of course, I can always try this: "I doth summon thee, Thoth! We, your fellow Legion Worlders, would have words with thee."
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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All that said, I still think the outer-space arc is a meandering, overlong bore.
I agree. Anything longer than 2 years (I’d say Animal Man was the longest run NOT to have this problem) tends to have a couple of great years, then a tepid middle age, then pull itself together for a fantastic finale. I’d say that’s true of Doom Patrol.... The outer-space arc wasn't my favorite, but I didn't find ANY of the arcs overly long. In fact I was surprised because they were all quicker than I remembered. Red Jack, the Dada arcs, Pentagon/Flex Mentallo, Candlemaker, etc. were typically no more than 3-4 issues. And the Omnibus was quite the page-turner for me throughout. I found I could NOT put it down and just zipped thru the very thick Omnibus in surprisingly short time because I was ravenous to read the next issue. So BFOB, your assessment of DP's ebb and flow matched my memory of how it went the first go-round, but I was much more entertained this time. I'm sure not having to read in monthly doses helped me. And, without spoiling anything, the ending of the second Brotherhood of Dada arc still kinda bothers me. Both arcs ended tragically for the Brotherhood. The second one was, I think, meant to be over the top tragic in its depiction of the death of a dream, but I still found it affecting. It feels like the only way Mr. Nobody's story could end, sadly. But that last issue, so naturalistic and sepia-toned in contrast to the previous issues, and focusing on the most memorable of the characters Grant created, is to me the epitome of how a writer can best close her or his run on a comic book series. Am I the only one who wondered or, more accurately, was worried that the happy ending was just Jane's fantasy and maybe she did jump off that bridge? I think Grant deliberately leaves that up in the air, but the reader could choose either ending and not be wrong. I think one of the few things I dislike is what happened to Josh and how Caulder was taken care of before anyone could even deal with what he did. Also, the Omnibus includes the Doom Force Special. I didn't feel like reading an out-of-continuity Liefeld riff, so I skipped it for the time being.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
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And, without spoiling anything, the ending of the second Brotherhood of Dada arc still kinda bothers me. Both arcs ended tragically for the Brotherhood. The second one was, I think, meant to be over the top tragic in its depiction of the death of a dream, but I still found it affecting. It feels like the only way Mr. Nobody's story could end, sadly. Part of me wants to agree with you, but part of me wishes it hadn't been so over-the-top and so bluntly definitive in its tragedy. OTOH, that does prove what a great antihero Grant created with Mr. Nobody, that his fate would affect me so deeply. But that last issue, so naturalistic and sepia-toned in contrast to the previous issues, and focusing on the most memorable of the characters Grant created, is to me the epitome of how a writer can best close her or his run on a comic book series. Am I the only one who wondered or, more accurately, was worried that the happy ending was just Jane's fantasy and maybe she did jump off that bridge? I think Grant deliberately leaves that up in the air, but the reader could choose either ending and not be wrong. Both possibilities did cross my mind. I think Grant succeeded with that ending at establishing a sense of ambiguity. I wish the end of the 2nd Brotherhood storyarc had been, if not equally ambiguous, at least somewhat. I think one of the few things I dislike is what happened to Josh and how Caulder was taken care of before anyone could even deal with what he did. Here I agree 100 percent. It could even be argued that Josh's fate has queasy racial implications. And, as I said a while ago in another Gymlls thread, I think even a Promethean punishment would have been too good for that bastard Caulder. Also, the Omnibus includes the Doom Force Special. I didn't feel like reading an out-of-continuity Liefeld riff, so I skipped it for the time being. It's not very good. I'm a fan of the Nicieza-Capullo X-Force (that creative team came together a few months after Liefeld was gone), and, honestly, I don't think Fabian took it any more seriously than Grant did, but Fabian didn't have Grant's arty-farty elitism (the latter actually turning out to be a bit of an affectation on Grant's part.)
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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And, without spoiling anything, the ending of the second Brotherhood of Dada arc still kinda bothers me. Both arcs ended tragically for the Brotherhood. The second one was, I think, meant to be over the top tragic in its depiction of the death of a dream, but I still found it affecting. It feels like the only way Mr. Nobody's story could end, sadly. Part of me wants to agree with you, but part of me wishes it hadn't been so over-the-top and so bluntly definitive in its tragedy. OTOH, that does prove what a great antihero Grant created with Mr. Nobody, that his fate would affect me so deeply. In both Dada arcs, Nobody and the Brotherhood start out looking like the bad guys, but it ends up being turned around. I wouldn't change either one. That last part of Nobody trying to return to the painting and having that denied him is beautifully tragic. Am I the only one who wondered or, more accurately, was worried that the happy ending was just Jane's fantasy and maybe she did jump off that bridge? I think Grant deliberately leaves that up in the air, but the reader could choose either ending and not be wrong.
Both possibilities did cross my mind. I think Grant succeeded with that ending at establishing a sense of ambiguity. I wish the end of the 2nd Brotherhood storyarc had been, if not equally ambiguous, at least somewhat. I'm glad it wasn't just me who saw that. I really loved Crazy Jane and her relationship with Cliff. I've long loved the issue where Cliff journeys inside her mind to rescue her, and we see it visualized as a train station leading to different personalities on each stop. And their was nuance to her and Cliff's relationship that was a wonder to behold. I think one of the few things I dislike is what happened to Josh and how Caulder was taken care of before anyone could even deal with what he did. Here I agree 100 percent. It could even be argued that Josh's fate has queasy racial implications. And, as I said a while ago in another Gymlls thread, I think even a Promethean punishment would have been too good for that bastard Caulder. In the end it was senseless because the Candlemaker rendered everything moot with its appearance. Maybe if the Candlemaker was held back a few issues, and it was DP vs. the Chief, it would have seemed more justified, but as is, it's just "why"? (And then, there's the brief resurrection....ugh.) Overall, Josh was wonderfully utilizedand kind of the backbone of the series, so I hate the senselessness of it. Also, the Omnibus includes the Doom Force Special. I didn't feel like reading an out-of-continuity Liefeld riff, so I skipped it for the time being. It's not very good. I'm a fan of the Nicieza-Capullo X-Force (that creative team came together a few months after Liefeld was gone), and, honestly, I don't think Fabian took it any more seriously than Grant did, but Fabian didn't have Grant's arty-farty elitism (the latter actually turning out to be a bit of an affectation on Grant's part.) Yeah, I was pretty sure I wasn't missing anything.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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And how about frickin' DANNY the STREET, y'all!!!
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
"I doth summon thee, Thoth! We, your fellow Legion Worlders, would have words with thee." ...from across the mysterious, ethereal ocean that is The Big Pond something disturbs thoth, just as he's having a dream about English Breakfast and the Spice Girls... That’s it! Pour more refreshing tea into the tub! Once I duck my head under the surface, I'll not be able to hear their records at all! Ah lovely! Hmmm? Methought I heard a voice cry ‘Sleep no more!' Fickles does moider sleep, much as Didio moiders a line of comics. And who doth placed "The Thor Guide to Dialogue" audiobook on ye olde MP3 player while I slumbered? Verily, I wouldst end such a manner post haste! >slap< I've notes for a thread on British comics, that came about when I was half way through redoing the Claremont X-Men issues. Which is another thing I'll need to get around to posting. One of Fickles' favourites turns out to be a lead contender for being the main hero in that. Morrison's Doom Patrol struggled a bit once it got past all the bits that he cadged/ pinched to make up the plot. Those come from a combination of Whatever-book-he was-reading + super powers (so you got When Rabbit Howled + superpowers = Crazy Jane or Chaffinch Necktie (Idiot's Guide to Dadaism) + Superpowers = Brotherhood of Dada etc.) combined with simply pinching bits from other people + superpowers (so you get conversation with Brendan McCarthy + superpowers = Danny the Street etc). Left to his own devices, beyond that lot, and it gets to be a bit tougher as actual creation is required. That’s why, when on shakier creative ground, the space travel stories weren’t as strong. To its credit, the plot was there early on which meant it didn't fail due to disinterest/ other shiny new toys in the way that other projects do. Also, it *was* at least adapting from areas outside comics making it appear fresh (well, except to every comics artist going presumably, as they would have known a lot more about art history). As usual, the source material for pinching was pretty decent too. Then there’s the craft of putting it together that, even if you know the sources, shouldn’t be sniffed at. I certainly bought every issue of it. Keeping Brendan McCarthy in mind, pinching the works and ideas of others and the craft of putting disparate finds of treasure together pretty much sums up Zenith. Brendan McCarthy did all the concept art for Zenith. That’s where the look of everything comes from and the character transitions across the decades. Visually, it had very solid foundations. McCarthy also worked with Peter Milligan on a strip called Paradax. And that’s where the character of Zenith came directly from, along with a lot of the world in which he lived. The series had very strong narrative foundations too. The rest of it is Alan Moore’s Marvelman and Captain Britain along with a take on Wolfman’s Crisis adapted for British characters. The tail end of it is lifted from classic sci fi novels + superpowers. Lots of other direct lifts along the way too. And it’s an excellent read. Particularly if you’ve not read the sources. Those sources he picks from are top drawer, and they are full of potential in the series as they are meshed into a single storyline ( with the exception of the end where his mind had wandered a bit and he couldn’t be bothered hiding the seams of the sources.) With Zenith, there’s also fun in watching the parallel writing and art craft in the work. Artist Steve Yeowell really came on leaps and bounds in Zenith and it’s a visual treat. You get scenes where Morrison drops in keywords that are replicated in the art. “On the rails” as Yeowell draws a couple following train tracks to get back to London (how superheroes know where to fly is answered here). In addition to the tightly plotted British cliffhanger every seven pages, there’s lots of cinematic visual clues and some top-notch dialogue making it all well worth reading. If any of the above sounds uncharitable, please bear in mind that Morrison spent a *lot* of time bemoaning the state of the industry and pointedly suggesting that the tired old guard should be taken away and put down, lest their doddering impede his enfant terrible advance into stardom. It really was that subtle. There’s some poetic justice in him then spending his career laboriously strip-mining the ideas of those writers he once attacked.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417 |
I really loved Crazy Jane and her relationship with Cliff. I've long loved the issue where Cliff journeys inside her mind to rescue her, and we see it visualized as a train station leading to different personalities on each stop. And their was nuance to her and Cliff's relationship that was a wonder to behold. LOVE that issue! And what I think is a great little bonus is that one of her personalities was named "Driver 8" after a song from R.E.M.'s "Fables of the Reconstruction" album. That album has a stigma that's mostly related to the band's unhappy experience recording it, and the way it failed to take them to the next level of commercial success. But me, I adore that album! It's so rich in warm, hazy atmospherics. Especially this track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJp2yfBmjCsAnd how about frickin' DANNY the STREET, y'all!!! Bona to vada that lovely post, Lardy. ...from across the mysterious, ethereal ocean that is The Big Pond something disturbs thoth, just as he's having a dream about English Breakfast and the Spice Girls...
That’s it! Pour more refreshing tea into the tub! Once I duck my head under the surface, I'll not be able to hear their records at all! Ah lovely! ROTFLMAO I knew from the first time I heard "W____e" that it was one time too many. I've notes for a thread on British comics, that came about when I was half way through redoing the Claremont X-Men issues. Which is another thing I'll need to get around to posting. One of Fickles' favourites turns out to be a lead contender for being the main hero in that. Looking forward to finding out which of my faves is the hero. Morrison's Doom Patrol struggled a bit once it got past all the bits that he cadged/ pinched to make up the plot. Those come from a combination of Whatever-book-he was-reading + super powers (so you got When Rabbit Howled + superpowers = Crazy Jane or Chaffinch Necktie (Idiot's Guide to Dadaism) + Superpowers = Brotherhood of Dada etc.) combined with simply pinching bits from other people + superpowers (so you get conversation with Brendan McCarthy + superpowers = Danny the Street etc). Left to his own devices, beyond that lot, and it gets to be a bit tougher as actual creation is required. That’s why, when on shakier creative ground, the space travel stories weren’t as strong.
To its credit, the plot was there early on which meant it didn't fail due to disinterest/ other shiny new toys in the way that other projects do. Also, it *was* at least adapting from areas outside comics making it appear fresh (well, except to every comics artist going presumably, as they would have known a lot more about art history). As usual, the source material for pinching was pretty decent too. Then there’s the craft of putting it together that, even if you know the sources, shouldn’t be sniffed at. I certainly bought every issue of it. Well said. Thanks for chiming in about Morrison's DP. If any of the above sounds uncharitable, please bear in mind that Morrison spent a *lot* of time bemoaning the state of the industry and pointedly suggesting that the tired old guard should be taken away and put down, lest their doddering impede his enfant terrible advance into stardom. It really was that subtle. There’s some poetic justice in him then spending his career laboriously strip-mining the ideas of those writers he once attacked. LOL My sentiments exactly.
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417 |
Star Wars: Legacy
Ostrander and Duursema are just awesome Star Wars creators. They got to do a lot of their own thing on Legacy, and it makes for some great comics. Only wish they'd ease up on the repetitive slang introduced in the prequels. Otherwise, this is some of the best Star Wars comics I've ever read! Lardy, I just read the opening 7-part arc of that series, and also the zero issue. I love it, and the Marvel Epic Collection trade I borrowed from the library has 12 more issues in it! The slang doesn't bother me personally. There's really only one thing I'm not crazy about: Cade Skywalker feels a bit too much at this point like a familiar Star Wars comic book trope that goes all the way back to Tom Veitch and Cam Kennedy's "Dark Empire" -- the emotionally damaged Jedi in danger of succumbing to his demons. That said, Ostrander and Duursema have pulled so many clever twists on other SW tropes, that I have confidence they will do the same for that character as the longform story progresses. Another reason I'm enjoying this so much is because I had been finding over the past couple years that Ostrander's DCU superhero work just doesn't hold up that well for me. His Pre-DC indie work still burns just as brightly for me as ever, but that only made me suspect that his best work was far behind him. I'm glad he's proven me wrong with SWL. And Duursema's art is a particular delight, because here she's finally fulfilled the potential in her 80s work that got derailed in her 90s work (in fairness to her, she had a lot of other things on her mind in the 90s, as that was the decade her kids were born.) Her SWL style carries pleasant echoes of Al Williamson, Paul Gulacy, and, of course, her mentor Joe Kubert, but it's still entirely her thing. Once again, Lardy, you have gently guided me to a most enjoyable read. Thanks.
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 530
Active
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Active
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 530 |
I loved SWL. I would be more forgiving about the Disney deal wrenching the license away from Dark Horse if there was room for more experimental projects like this and Old Republic. Unfortunately it looks like the comics now can do nothing but explore movie characters. That’s no comment on current quality; just a comment on the fact that they can’t even lure me in to try them.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248
Time Trapper
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OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248 |
Lardy, I just read the opening 7-part arc of that series, and also the zero issue. I love it, and the Marvel Epic Collection trade I borrowed from the library has 12 more issues in it!
Once again, Lardy, you have gently guided me to a most enjoyable read. Thanks.
Excellent! I'm quite surprised that Legacy was one of my recommendations that you decided to follow up on! You must have had a Star wars itch you needed to scratch and gave this one a shot? In any case Vol. 4 was pretty impressive. It pulls away from the core cast mostly and focuses on some of the important side characters and events and really gives the Legacy universe even more depth. Ostrander really knocked himself out on this project, and Duursema, as his main artistic collaborator, produces some of my favorite Star Wars art ever. Honestly, Legacy may be the best Star Wars comic ever produced if it at least maintains its strengths. Your post reminds me that i still have 6 volumes worth of Legacy to purchase, for which I've started trawling eBay! (I've got most of the material contained in the second Marvel Epic Collection, so I'm not getting that--no waord on a print version of Vol. 3 yet.) Another reason I'm enjoying this so much is because I had been finding over the past couple years that Ostrander's DCU superhero work just doesn't hold up that well for me. His Pre-DC indie work still burns just as brightly for me as ever, but that only made me suspect that his best work was far behind him.
I'm glad he's proven me wrong with SWL.
Hm. I personally feel pretty certain that his work on Suicide Squad and Spectre would hold up for me, but I hope to see for myself when I eventually am able to re-read them.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417
Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,417 |
Lardy, I just read the opening 7-part arc of that series, and also the zero issue. I love it, and the Marvel Epic Collection trade I borrowed from the library has 12 more issues in it!
Once again, Lardy, you have gently guided me to a most enjoyable read. Thanks.
Excellent! I'm quite surprised that Legacy was one of my recommendations that you decided to follow up on! You must have had a Star wars itch you needed to scratch and gave this one a shot? In any case Vol. 4 was pretty impressive. It pulls away from the core cast mostly and focuses on some of the important side characters and events and really gives the Legacy universe even more depth. A bit of a Star Wars itch, yes, but the more intense itch was to try and read a longform 21st Century comics series without negative preconceptions. Despite my reservations about JO's post-indie writing, which I'll address further down in this post, I figured that a Dark Horse Expanded Universe SW epic by seasoned veteran creators like JO and JD was just about the closest thing to a guaranteed decent read. I'm now at the halfway point of the entire SWL saga, just before the SW: Vector event storyline tie-ins, and SWL has proven to be much, much more than just a decent read. This is, without exaggeration, the closest I've ever seen to a science fiction/space opera equivalent of Tolstoy's "War and Peace!" It's exactly the kind of thing that reminds me why this is my genre of choice for my own writing! Ostrander really knocked himself out on this project, and Duursema, as his main artistic collaborator, produces some of my favorite Star Wars art ever. Honestly, Legacy may be the best Star Wars comic ever produced if it at least maintains its strengths. Yes, yes, and yes again! I am equally hopeful that it will follow through to the very end. Your post reminds me that i still have 6 volumes worth of Legacy to purchase, for which I've started trawling eBay! (I've got most of the material contained in the second Marvel Epic Collection, so I'm not getting that--no waord on a print version of Vol. 3 yet.) Best of luck, my friend, hope you find them all at reasonable prices! I've got volumes 8 through 11 all in route to my local branch library. This is one of those times when I thank the Gods I live in a county with one of the best public library catalogs in the entire U-S-of-A. Another reason I'm enjoying this so much is because I had been finding over the past couple years that Ostrander's DCU superhero work just doesn't hold up that well for me. His Pre-DC indie work still burns just as brightly for me as ever, but that only made me suspect that his best work was far behind him.
I'm glad he's proven me wrong with SWL.
Hm. I personally feel pretty certain that his work on Suicide Squad and Spectre would hold up for me, but I hope to see for myself when I eventually am able to re-read them. Yeah, even before I read your reply, I was thinking I might have been a bit harsh on JO. Spectre does have consistently superlative art from Tom Mandrake and the various guest artists, which is probably the main reason I still have a nearly-unbroken run of the 62 original floppies; that said, it feels a bit...I dunno, like the superhero universe setting is just not accommodating JO's thematic ambitions -- of course, as He Who Wanders often says, your mileage may vary. With Suicide Squad it's the opposite problem -- most of the art is really dull and plain, whether it's Luke McDonnell or any of the other SuSq artists, and while JO and his late partner Kim Yale did achieve some vivid characterizations, I guess what it comes down to is that the readers' enjoyment of the series depends on how much they are invested in the Post-Crisis universe. And I've had to admit to myself recently, via last year's CoIE thread and the ongoing Legion Re-Reads, that Post-Crisis DC is just not my "jam," as the kids today phrase it. When you do re-read JO's major DCU works, I hope you'll post lots and lots of your wonderful reviews!
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248
Time Trapper
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OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248 |
Pile UPDATE 2/8/20 (Yeesh! 8 months?!?!)
Currently Reading
Marvel Masterworks: Champions
Reading Next
Ultimate Death of Spider-Man HC Wonder Woman by John Byrne Vol. 1 Aquaman: Search for Mera HC
Read Since Previous Update
Crisis on Infinite Earths Deluxe Edition Howard the Duck Omnibus Paying for It by Chester Brown X-Statix Omnibus Alpha Flight by John Byrne Omnibus Ultimate Spider-man: Death of Spider-Man Prelude Rachel Rising Omnibus Black Widow (Waid/Samnee) Vol. 2 Spider-Man: Death of Jean DeWolff Doctor Strange: Don't Pay the Ferryman Nightwing Rebirth Vol. 3 Walking Dead Here's Negan Avengers Omnibus Vol 3 Hal Jordan & GLC Rebirth Vol. 3 Star Wars Vol. 6 Aquaman Rebirth Vol 4 Superman Reborn Superman: Oz Effect Nightwing Rebirth Vol. 4 Super Sons Vol. 2 Batman & Outsiders HC Vol. 2 Batman Beyond Rebirth Vol. 2 Green Lantern Corps Beware Their Power Vol. 1 Amazing Spider-Man: Worldwide Vol. 8 Star Wars Vol. 7 Captain Marvel: Earth's Mightiest Hero Vol. 1 Tales of the Batman: Gerry Conway Vol. 1 Crisis on Infinite Earths Companion Deluxe Vol. 1 My Boyfriend Is a Bear Runaways Vol. 2-3 Hawkeye/Kate Bishop Vol. 2 The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 3 HC Brooklyn Blood (Levitz) Amazing Spider-Man Worldwide Vol. 9 My Heroes Have Always Been Junkies New Teen Titans Vol. 8 Superman Rebirth Vol. 4 Green Lanterns Rebirth Vol. 4 Detective Comics Rebirth Vol 4 Batgirl/Birds of Prey Rebirth Vol 2 Hal Jordan & GLC Rebirth Vol. 4 Cave Carson Has a Cybernetic Eye Vol. 1 Tony Stark: Iron Man Vol 1
To-Read Pile
Stray Bullets Uber Alles Edition Grimjack Omnibus Vol. 2 Shaman's Tears (Mike Grell) Just the Tips (a Sex Criminals companion by Fraction/Zdarsky) Bandette Vol. 2 Pride of Baghdad Moon Knight Epic Collection Vol. 2 Star Wars: Legacy (Ostrander) Vol. 5 Star Wars: Tag & Bink Were Here Superman: Secret Identity Twilight Children Wonder Woman: Earth One John Carter Warlord of Mars Marvel Omnibus Death & Return of Superman Omnibus All-Star Section Eight Fables: Werewolves of Heartland Complete Essex County by Jeff Lemire New Teen Titans: Games Sensational She-Hulk by John Byrne: The Return Doom Patrol (Young Animal) Vol. 1 JLU : Infinitus Saga Mother Russia Vol. 1 Hercules: Full Circle Spider-Man: Kraven's Last Hunt Spider-Man Sinister Six Spider-Man Brand New Day Complete Collection Vol. 3 & 4 Thor by Walt Simonson Omnibus JLI Omnibus Vol. 1 Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus Death of Ultimate Spider-Man Fall-Out HC Thing: Serpent Crown Affair HC Thor: Black Galaxy Saga Batgirl Rebirth Vol. 3 Red Hood & Outlaws Rebirth Vol. 3 Detective Comics Rebirth Vol 5 Thing: Project Pegasus Star Wars: Doctor Aphra Vol. 2 Superman Rebirth Vol. 5 Deathstroke Rebirth Vol. 4 100 Bullets: Brother Lono Batman Dark Knight Detective Vol. 1 (Barr/Davis) Judas Coin (Simonson) Black Canary: Kicking and Screaming Hercules: Still Going Strong Star Wars: Captain Phasma Peter Parker Spectacular Spider-Man Vol. 2 (current series) Superman: Exile Omnibus Nightwing Rebirth Vol. 5 Superboy & LSH Vol. 2 Miles Morales Omnibus Vol. 1 Captain Marvel: Earth's Mightiest Hero Vols. 2-3 Tomb of Dracula Omnibus Legends of the Dark Knight Norm Breyfogle Vol 2 Tales of the Batman: Gerry Conway Vol. 2 New Teen Titans Vols. 9-10 Justice League Rebirth Vols. 6-7 Aquaman Vol. 5 Batman: White Knight Green Lanterns Vol. 6 Hal Jordan & GLC Vol. 5 Batgirl & BoP Vol. 3 Man of Steel (Bendis) Action Comics Vol. 5 Star Wars Vol. 8-9 Spectacular Spider-Man (current) Vols. 2-3 Fun Home Unknown Soldier (Vertigo) Vols. 3-4 Conan the Barbarian Omnibus Vol. 1 100 Bullets Book 4 Fantastic Four Omnibus (Lee/Kirby) Vol. 1 Lady Killer Vol. 1 X-O Manowar: Retribution Harbinger: Children of the Eighth Day
New Stuff
Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus Vol. 4 Tales of the Batman: Gerry Conway Vol. 3 Amazing Spider-Man (Nick Spencer) Vols 1-3 100 Bullets Book 5 Crisis on Infinite Earths Companion Deluxe Vols. 2-3 Frogcatchers (Jeff Lemire) Annihilation Complete Vols 1-2 Deathstroke Vols 4-6 Flash Vols 9-10 Green Lanterns Vol 5 Hal Jordan & GLC Vol 6 Runaways Vol 4 Star Wars Vol 10 Wonder Twins Vol 1 Superman Vol 6 Incredible Hulk by PAD Omnibus Vol 1 Black Cat Vol 1 Aquaman: Death of a Prince Booster Gold: The Big Fall Man and Superman Deluxe Wonder Woman by John Byrne Vols 2-3 Mera: Tidebreaker Nightwing Vol 6 Detective Comics Vols 6-7 Marvel Masterworks: The Avengers Vol. 19 Marvel Masterworks: The Defenders Vol. 6 The Tomb of Dracula: Day of Blood! Night of Redemption! Hawkeye: Kate Bishop Vol. 3 The Sandman: Endless Nights Multiple Man: It All Makes Sense in the End Aquaman Vol 6 The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 4 HC Star Wars Legacy Vols 6-11 Batman & Outsiders HC Vol. 3 Batgirl Vol 4
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248
Time Trapper
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OP
Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248 |
I just read my Aquaman: The Search for Mera HC and just utterly LOVED it! Having enjoyed the King of the Seas' Rebirth book perhaps more than any launch of that whole initiative and seeing the character get his due with the recent movie, this book caught my eye when it came to my attention over a year ago. I knew he had his own book in the Silver Age and that Jim Aparo had been involved as artist, but this release in light of the other above factors made the book intriguing. I'm so glad I picked it up!
The art was really stellar. First, there are Nick Cardy's covers, which are among the most beautiful and eye-catching I've ever seen, not only of the Silver Age but of any era. In fact, the images themselves are timeless, inventive and dramatic. They are just stunningly beautiful in a way that I can just linger on the images. In fact, I think it was the collection's use of Aquaman #45's cover image which sealed the deal for me buying it. I'd had no idea that all of the covers reproduced within would also be so exquisite! I've had only a passing familiarity with Cardy's work, but this has opened my eyes in a big way!
Second, there's Jim Aparo. I've seen him do some excellent work late in his career on Batman and Batman and the Outsiders, but I feel his older work here on Aquaman is phenomenal! Maybe it's a style he used when he was younger. Maybe it's that he's inking his own work. Maybe it's the subject matter being a little more fantasy/pulp than super-hero. Maybe it's all of these things, but I though Aparo's interiors were gorgeous and so much more vibrant than his other work. Jim has always been a reliable and very solid storyteller, but here his lines are a bit looser to match the undersea flows that punctuate many of his scenes. His Aquaman is masculine but distinctive from his Bruce Wayne, and his women, especially Mera and Tula, are just gorgeous! I've never thought that Aparo's women were especially stunning, but the pulp aspects of the strip really inspire that side. Honestly, I enjoyed looking at every page of Aparo's often unconventional layouts and designs punctuated by vibrant colors. While it's true that Aparo doesn't exactly reinvent the depiction of life for underwater dwellers--even to this day comics populated with underwater humans don't seem all that exotically different in how they pose characters pretty much just like surface-set ones--he does infuse an exotic, lush quality to what he does. I now really feel I have to track down his work on Spectre and the Phantom Stranger because I've heard good things about those strips from the same era.
While I started with the art, don't let me give the impression that the story by Steve Skeates wasn't good. I loved that, too! While I groaned that our principle characters constantly referred to each other by their superhero names (even Arthur, Jr. was only referred to as "Aquababy") in a setting in which there was no need for secret identities, the story was fairly progressive and complex for a SA DC book. I mean, right off the bat, we have a 9-part epic that begins with the kidnapping of Mera. That's not exactly common in the Silver Age and pretty uncommon even in the Bronze! And we get our hero exploring uncharted ocean colonies and eventually leading him to the surface world. Honestly, these explorations captured my imagination in such a way that I was wondering if any of the settings were ever revisited by this or subsequent creative teams. The main plot and all of the subplots combined to make this as entertaining a collection of continuing issues as any I've seen from DC or Marvel in or around the same era. We have some pretty strong character moments and a terrific rebound by Mera from the basic damsel in distress formula that just reinforces my own growing affinity for the character in more modern stories.
So I'm beyond pleased with this purchase and have already been enticed into more. The Death of a Prince HC was released and bought by me this month. I'll hold off on reading it because a collection ("Deadly Waters") that bridges Search for Mera and that book has been announced to be released in August. I'm also looking at an Aquaman SA Omnibus to be released soon. It is to feature lots of Nick Cardy interiors, so that may be hard to pass up after my thoughts above. It's also intriguing to see how he and Mera started out, got married and had a baby. With Ray Palmer & Jean Loring, Ralph & Sue Dibny, Barry & Iris and Arthur & Mera, DC had more high-profile marriages than one might expect (though it's notable that all were eventually undone, usually hideously). Mostly, I'm just elated by the sense of discovery! Every time I find an unexpected gem like this, it just reinforces my enthusiasm for my pastime and that there is still more to discover and rediscover in its richness!
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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