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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
Issue 8 seems to be intended to explain how everything came about. I guess it does that in terms of the how, but it certainly doesn't in terms of the why. Even reading the character's own thoughts doesn't explain why they chose to act the way they did after the "accident", only what they did. Yes, this. That does sum up the feeling of #8. Very much concerned with joining the dots, after the event. Less so in making it credible beyond the confines of this series (even here it comes out of nowhere) Unfortunately, joining those dots would require the character acting in a way that I've certainly never read, with multiple interpretations on the powers that I've not seen either. All to fix another interpretation of a power I'd not read before, and shake my head at. Meanwhile, one of the cast figures out one anomaly a few issues ago, that I found very unlikely, if not laughable. And the "trinity" just basically move around with lots of presence, but showing very little ability.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666 |
Heroes in Crisis is ... not good.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
Heroes in Crisis is ... not good. I feel my post has too many unnecessary words now.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666 |
Heroes in Crisis is ... not good. I feel my post has too many unnecessary words now. LOL ... I was just so shocked at how BAD the last issue was
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666 |
OK I'm confused. Did Heroes In Crisis end? I have no idea And what was the point of it? What follows might seem like spoilers, but they occur in the first issue. I will use the SPOILER editing option just in case. It killed off a bunch of (spoilers) Titans - which seems to be the DC Crisis way - but I'm not sure what it accomplished besides bringing Harley closer to the Big 3. The Sanctuary is exposed and destroyed, but not rebuilt - which seems to undermine the central argument of the book's premise. And poor Wally.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 530
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I think there’s still one issue to go. All sarcasm aside, I think the main point of it was to show the PTSD people in combat go through. It’s just a shame he did it so much more skillfully elsewhere.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 100
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 100 |
Yes, there is one more issue to go - BTW one whose release was delayed a week to have it coincide with a big reveal coming in Doomsday Clock 10. If King has any hope of giving HIC a semblance of a point, issue 9 has a lot of ground to cover. For instance, it's been several issues since someone exposed Sanctuary's existence to Lois Lane and she published the story. Seems like there ought to be a payoff to that. Like who exposed Sanctuary? Why? What's the fallout for the super-hero community? But it feels like King forgot about it. Beyond not being good generally, the series' fatal flaw is the murder mystery framing device. It was totally unnecessary for King's stated intentions; in fact, I think it made it narratively impossible for him to successfully explore his themes. For a series ostensibly about PTSD, it spent 8 of 9 issues focused on the plot machinations of a murder mystery that no one wanted.
Last edited by Rob-Em; 05/21/19 01:01 PM.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Jul 2013
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So reports are flying around that Tom King will leave Batman early, but still has multiple series coming from DC. I bailed on Batman early on, but I had hoped I would be able to go back and enjoy it as a whole.
Maybe they’ve realized he does his best work on short run self contained series and are going to have him stick to that from now on?
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
I was going to cheer him leaving Batman until I realized we don't know what he's going to work on next and I'm terrified it will be a Legion book.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Jul 2013
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I think it's pretty clear at this point that Bendis will be writing the Legion.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
That doesn't make me feel better.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Jul 2013
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I've actually been enjoying Bendis' DC work, although to varying degrees depending on the project. Enough to make me cautiously hopeful. But I get why others wouldn't be.
ETA: although I've probably derailed the thread enough now that any further discussion should probably be in a different thread.
Last edited by Brain-Fall-Out Boy; 05/24/19 06:10 AM.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
All I can say about King anymore at this point is that once Heroes in Crisis is over, he is officially a non-entity to me. Him, Gerads, and Clay Mann and anyone else who worked on this nightmare. I'm gonna block them, mute them, whatever them on twitter. I've spent too much time discussing how awful this series is during my therapy sessions because of the anxiety and stress it's given me and how it's made me feel as someone getting therapy and suffering from PTSD.
It's simply healthier for me to believe Tom King does not exist because thinking about him does not help me in any way, shape or form.
But whatever this man thought he was doing for people with PTSD through Heroes in Crisis, I can safely say HE DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,291
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,291 |
Ok so HIC is finished. So. Uh. Hmm. I don't really know what I think. After reading #8 I didn't think there was anyway to pull this one off in any kind of way that could be called successful. Now ... maybe? ---------SPOILERS AHEAD----------- So a lot of people are still dead. Ivy is alive (sort of) and I am very glad that Wally is still alive. BUT I am most disappointed about Roy Harper. Most of the others I didn't know very well. I knew of Steel, Blue Jay and Solstice all a little but that's pretty much it. I have searched and read of the others that appear confirmed to have died but some of those are still a bit vague.
The biggest thing #9 achieves (other than keeping Wally alive and letting Booster and Harley off the hook) is to explain (kind-of) what Wally's thoughts were and why he did what he did. I thought it was actually good technique to have Wally counsel Wally. As for Booster's "solution" to the dead Wally problem, that felt kind of a MacGuffin even though it is consistent with the universe. I liked that Wally's choices after the accident are not condoned or seen to be the right thing to do, but just choices made by someone in a lot of pain and struggling with how to fix an unfixable situation.
One thing I realised was that this is one of those stories that really needs a reread after reaching the conclusion. Shocking I know with a story that not only involves a little time travel but is told maybe up to half in flashbacks that don't appear in the order they occurred. I didn't reread it in detail but I did go back through each issue and understand a lot of things that were unclear or just missed the first time. Things like all the references to Ivy's flower (there are a lot), Wally's multiple appearances throughout, Booster and Harley's experiences and memories and what they meant.
So in the end we have a number of heroes dead (including Roy), Wally imprisoned (for manslaughter?), a new Ivy (it will depend on future writers whether this is a good or bad thing) and public knowledge that Sanctuary exists along with the implication that it is back in operation and helping even more big name heroes.
So does it work as a comment on PTSD? I don't really know. Not having experienced it myself it is hard to judge. Perhaps. I just wish it could have been done without such a cost.
Last edited by stile86; 05/30/19 09:16 PM.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Jul 2013
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I’m honestly not too worried about Roy Harper. Death is more of a revolving door than ever. I’d be willing to bet we see Roy Harper back perfectly fine in a recognizable form while certain other characters are still struggling to free them selves of the consequences of the series.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
I only glanced at this at super speed in the shop but... If the inciting event is all solved with jaunts through time that are so common place that Booster does it on his birthday, why not just go back and erase the event? Heck, since they all use 25th century clones to get out of this, why not make a lot of 25th century clones, go back with them all and save the lives of everyone at the opening scene by replacing *everybody* with an inactive clone? (never mind clone rights here ) Time travel is made to sound very easy in the book as is the cloning, so I don't see why not. I also noticed that there has been no pay off to the reveal of the laughable Sanctuary concept. I expected a Watchmen like psychiatrist strike like the police force did there at the least Over three days later when no one noticed their lives impacted by their absence. "Robots are not therapists!" and "Kryptonians are after your jobs!" placards. At least Legends (where Crisis of the Soul came from as posted above, which is in the back of the minds of DC when they launched this) ran with the idea of people losing faith in their heroes.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666 |
I am torn with the conclusion. This has been an odd story - told in irregular beats, issues often having little happening and a bunch of gratuitous murders. I miss the days when character deaths meant more - and were rare. How many times have some of these characters died? As for the series: I agree that the ending had an emotional resonance that the series did not for me. Wallly's discussion with himself was poignant and seemed heartfelt. Harley was awesome throughout the series IMO and the Batgirl/Harley team up was effective. Booster was a plot device.
I do not know how I feel about the whole "he is super powerful and made a mistake - let's give him a chance to make it up". There seems to be a very different kind of morality at play. I understand holding "heroes" to a different set of moral, ethical and legal standards (they do beat up on strangers after all - sometimes people who are mentally ill) BUT I'd say murder is usually a deal breaker. Will Wally serve time? Seems doubtful. I will probably reread it - one day. Not today though. The murders seemed gratuitous and I'm still shocked how many characters had to die for Wally to lean. It's a bit creepy
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
All spoilers ahead... Marvel had a character with speed in their name who was involved in the deaths of many and had to make amends. He ended up as Penance with a costume with spikes in it that gave his constant pain. In tribute, Wally's penance will be that he gets a similar costume and calls himself Speedball. Another irritating thing is that now it's a plot device, everybody in the DCU has to be seen to use it. Heroes in Crisis: Sponsored by the American Psychiatric Association.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,291
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,291 |
I agree that Harley was the standout character from the series. I think she is a bit overused at the moment but her portrayal here was excellent. Several of the other characters had their best moments when they were interacting with her. Particularly liked when she didn't kill Booster, and they collapsed together and had their little sideline chat. Felt very real.
Good to see Babs in full detective mode again, busy figuring out how to solve the mess. Many of her Oracle stories were her best appearances. Loved that punch out of Blue Beetle.
Having read and enjoyed JLI it was fun seeing Blue and Gold back together again. I admit to not having read enough current BB to understand how the New 52 Ted Kord connects to the dead Infinite Crisis version, which at least the variant cover showing WW's killing of Lord that this still somehow happened.
As for Booster as simply a plot point, if they had only brought him in at the end I would agree. certainly in the last issue his solution was very convenient. Nevertheless I thought he was well handled as a major character through all the other issues, particularly his introspective arcs.
The most trepidation I have is how DC handles the fallout. Will Sanctuary become an important component of 21C DC Universe? Will its existence have an effect on public perception of heroes? How will Ivy's new "life" be handled? Will Roy be resurrected and when? How will Oliver react when he finds out? Is Oli more N52ish or post-Crisisish these days? And most importantly what will the Flash writers do with Wally now? He was the one and only Flash for so long that I can perfectly understand him cracking over losing everything but they better now make some very careful choices about where to go next.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: Jul 2013
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I wonder how it would have been if the characters were chosen on who was best for the story, not... whatever is going on in Didio’s head.
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Re: Tom King
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,291
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,291 |
Thanks for the link to your post. I started reading it and was impressed with what I read but I have been travelling and am tired, and I want to give your post the attention it deserves. So not read yet but I definitely will soon.
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