Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Lardy's Roundtable (Gym'll's Ed.): Grant Morrison

Ooh, Blood Ties so pissed me off. That Sersi / Exodus fight where they just floated there and threw energy blasts at each other, the literally *least* impressive thing either of them could do (and a thing at which neither of them were particularly specialists!). Those two were the definition of rocket-tag. Whoever hits the other one first, wins. Game over. Sersi goes first? Exodus is transmuted to a brick, with no mind at all to use his psionic powers. Exodus goes first? His psionic powers greatly outclass Sersi's, and he telepathically sedates her and keeps her unconscious.

But instead of remembering that one was the best freaking transmuter in an entire race of millenia-old transmuters, able to turn entire *teams* of super-powered people (including fellow Eternals!) into powerless farm animals with a wave of her hand, and the other was an omega-class psionic, they just floated there throwing zaps at each other and whining about how powerful each other were (when *neither* of them were particularly godlike at the zap-throwing, compared to Eternals like Ikaris or Thena, or mutants like Cyclops or Havok).

Ugh. I'm kind of used to people not knowing how to write characters with nigh-cosmic power levels like Sersi, but that was egregiously bad.

You know, having recently re-read Fantastic Four 286, which featured the full return of Jean Grey years after the Dark Phoenix Saga, I was struck by some curiosity about the behind-the-scenes stuff.

I mean, obviously, X-Factor was created as a cash grab, and bringing back Jean Grey with the other original X-Men was a logical idea for a spin-off.

But it was done in a really weird way. I mean, it was YEARS before UXM and X-Factor directly crossed over or the X-Men even discovered Jean's return. Both teams were featured, for example, in Mutant Massacre and Fall of the Mutants but didn't interact.

It seemed to me that Claremont was opposed to the spin-off and very possibly Jean's return by extension. Considering what he did with Madelyn Pryor before Jean's return, I can easily see that.

And yet, he re-wrote part of the flashback that explained what happened to Jean in FF 286 to make the encounter between Jean and Phoenix look more benevolent than what Byrne had written.

So I'm curious about the background to Jean's return. It being handled in Avengers and FF made me think Byrne's participation was kind of an eff you to Claremont, but then there was the re-write (and some pages redrawn by Guice) that caused Byrne to have his name taken off the credits of FF 286 and replaced with "You Know Who".

It's a curious and weird situation that bears some enlightenment.

Here's what I've been able to piece together (a big chunk of it from Sean Howe's excellent Marvel tell-all book) (DISCLAIMER: A large portion of what follows is speculation on my reasonably well-informed part) --

Bob Layton wanted to bring back together Cyclops. Beast, Iceman, and Angel, with a different superheroine in Jean Grey's place. Allegedly, Dazzler was the front-runner for a while.

Roger Stern remembered an idea Kurt Busiek had shared with him on how to bring Jean back, passed it along to Layton and Jim Shooter. Stern's good friend John Byrne got wind of these plans, and wanted to join in. That's how Avengers and FF got roped in for the big X-Factor launch x-over.

Claremont found out and went ballistic. Meanwhile, Shooter was acting so nutty by this point (possibly as a result of stress brought on by the ineptitude of Marvel's new owners, a C-List movie studio) that he kicked the project's original editor, Mike Carlin, off the book because he thought Carlin did protest too much. Bob Harras, who had just been promoted up from assistant editor to become Marvel's replacement for Denny O'Neil (whom Shooter had just scapegoated for one of Byrne's tantrums,) stepped into the breach.

Meantime, Shooter had Layton and X-Factor artist Butch Guice rewrite and redraw the first X-Factor issue over and over and over -- the poor guys actually ended up being forbidden by their bonkers boss-man from evacuating NYC during a ferocious winter storm.

As for the tie-ins, the Avengers issue went fairly smoothly, but the FF issue was redrawn (uncredited) by Guice and rewritten (uncredited) by Claremont (possibly because Claremont was considered Marvel's golden goose at the time, and when Shooter had to choose between placating him or placating the also-valuable Byrne, it was Claremont who got lucky.)

And thus the seeds were sown for Byrne's departure from Marvel, although for a while he'd hoped he could do both FF and Superman (possibly with John Romita Jr taking over the art on FF.) Byrne was also supposed to do breakdowns on Squadron Supreme with Jerry Ordway on inks. Instead we got Bob Hall and John Beatty (and later a whole bunch of other artists, including John Buscema for one issue!)

Heady times at Marvel. Heady times.

There's a recent podcast interview with Mark Waid which Cramey linked to in the Legion forum. In it, Waid is asked if he'd be interested in collaborating with his friend Grant Morrison. Waid replied in the affirmative.

So I got to thinking, what could they do together, and then, like a bolt of lightning...

"THE SUPERMAN-FLASH RACE: 21ST CENTURY VERSION!"

Recently, in the Kill This Thread game, Thoth and I had a brief discussion of the pros and cons of Grant Morrison's "Zenith," and of Morrison in general.

It got me thinking, what is Morrison's legacy going to be? And I thought that would be a good topic to revive this thread.

I think it's pretty clear that Grant is known for his Big Ideas. The problem, increasingly, is that the plots tend to be difficult to follow and that the characters kind of get lost in the shuffle or REALLY get lost in the shuffle.

Case in point was his recent run on Green Lantern. There were a few moments, here and there, where he seemed to really GET Hal, but increasingly, things got jumbled. Grant seemed to lose interest in characterization.

I haven't spoken to anyone about the run who really seemed to dig it at all. Everything I've seen and read points to people just checking out, like I did. It's a real shame because Liam Sharp is now an elite artist, who has gotten so much better with age.

I 100% agree with this.

I read Multiversity, cannot even remember the names of any of the bad guys. Shame really, as it seems some thought was given to their design, names and what they represent... but all I remember are big grand moments, that did not quite resonate with me because I had little emotional connection to most of the characters

I will say though, that I liked his run on Justice League. Small cast of fairly established characters = easier to connect, and I could spend more energy trying to follow the plot

I try to measure Morrison's work by how often I re-read it.

Thus, the 1996 Flex Mentallo miniseries easily bests all the competition. Because in addition to having a sweetness and sincerity I find lacking in most of their other work, it has a central character who, while neither deep nor multilayered, is genuinely iconic as the essence of what superheroes represent to Morrison. Add to that Frank Quitely art, plus a sprinkling of superficial yet vivid supporting characters and cameo players, and the result is the gift that keeps on giving.

I think early Morrison, when he was truly avant garde in the comics world, is the best Morrison. Then I feel like he let everything go to his head and much of his stuff in the last 20 years or so feels - I don't know - overwrought, perhaps? Not to say that his writing is BAD - I don't want to give that impression at all. But sometimes its hard to find the heart within one of his stories other than Grant himself. Compare that with Gaiman, for instance, where its easier to get lost in the created world without being reminded of who the creator is.

That may not make much sense. Maybe a more succinct way of saying that is with Morrison the story is as much about him writing it as it is the story itself. Also not perfect, but maybe closer. As my opinion of Bendis has shown, I dislike cults of personality around writers, and I feel like Morrison has some of that. It very likely colors my opinion of his more recent works, but there it is.

Yes, sometimes their work is esoteric to a fault - overly concerned with IDEAS to the detriment of story - but I'm never uninterested.
FWIW, I had fun with the bombast of their Green Lantern. Not every story was a winner (see above) but I thought their big ideas were perfect for a property like the Lanterns.

Here's something that might surprise some of you: several Morrison works I have praised in the relatively recent past -- All Star Superman, Seven Soldiers, Invisibles, Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Seaguy -- have all sat around gathering dust since their last re-reads.

The ones I've been returning to most often lately (besides my aforementioned favorite, the Flex Mentallo miniseries) are the aptly named The Filth and the controversial Final Crisis!

The former was one I avoided reading for years, only to discover it made me laugh out loud at all its tasteless gross-outs, while its cautiously optimistic resolution rang disarmingly true.

The latter I still regard as a failure with many moments that still make me angry (especially the Mary Marvel scenes.) But what a fascinating failure it has proven to be. While the central message of good imagination versus bad imagination got muddled in the telling, I can see where it could have worked for me if the editors had been halfway competent and the artwork had been more fittingly styled (I'm picturing something in a similar style to Alan Davis or Art Adams -- or Frank Quitely, of course.)

Nothing is ever simple whenever I try to analyze Morrison.

(Apologies for the above post, as I forgot Grant was non-binary. I'm trying to do better with appropriate pronouns.)

I will say that I do think that Grant's runs probably benefit from being read as collections. I recall reading and being a fan of their Doom Patrol but remember getting lost around the latter third or fourth of the run. However, when I read the Omnibus 1-2 years ago, that problem was pretty much non-existent. Reading their books month-to-month would seem quite the chore to recall all the details and concepts they cram in. However, I do think their eye on characterization has become more and more a casualty as their work has evolved. I simply can't enjoy a comic if the writer doesn't make me care about the central characters.

One of their (relatively) more recent works I enjoyed was Happy! It was bizarre, violent and vulgar but kept my attention with it's bizarre, violent & vulgar protagonist and the trippy cartoony character that is the book's namesake. Didn't hurt of course, that I love Darick Robertson's art, and Darick is in top form there.



THIS!!!! Perfectly put, IMO. You can say that about any writers you follow to an extent, but it's especially true of Morrison. Their stories, more and more over the years, elicit with me much less of a feeling of "what kind of great story will this be?" but more of a "what kind of concept/allegory/treatise are we in for this time--and will I comprehend any of it?" expectation. I read comics for interesting characters and memorable stories that may or may not have something additional to say about the world, but the characters and stories have to be interesting in and of themselves first and foremost. Alan Moore has excelled in telling great stories with interesting characters, while also making you think about deeper meanings. Grant is all about the latter.


I feel like Grant runs these days on the last part of what you said: you're never uninterested. I just don't know if that's enough for me anymore--hell, I know it's not.


It honestly had its moments, especially with the awesome Liam Sharpe art accompanying it. Increasingly, though, I felt like I was reading about Grant and what they have to say about comics (again) and lost interst.


That sentence is another "nail on the head" in regard to Morrison.

I've never read The Filth and don't intend to re-read Final Crisis, but here's a (probably incomplete) list of Morrison books/runs I would heartily recommend off the top of my head:

Animal Man
Doom Patrol
their Swamp Thing art co-written with Mark Millar
JLA
The Return of Bruce Wayne
at least the first half of Batman Inc.
Happy!
Flex Mentallo
All-Star Superman

Obviously, I haven't read everything they've ever written, but I feel confident in these recommendations

Lardy, thanks for mentioning Happy! I don't know how that one slipped my mind. I like it for the same reasons you listed. I think you might enjoy the Filth, as it covers similar territory to Happy, albeit in a much weirder, grosser, and more complex way.

Also, even though I find myself defending a lot of aspects of Final Crisis, I still think the bit with Superman singing Darkseid to death is the very definition of a clunker.

Oh! I didn't know you'd ever read Happy! That one was such a pleasure and even found some heart amid all the chaos. The first season of the TV show (never saw the second) adapted the series itself and was pretty good, though understandably toned down, it being a SyFy series. I never checked out season 2 because it would have obviously gone off-book, especially considering season one's more (ironically) "happy" ending. I'll try to look into The Filth (a weird statement taken out of context! ) when I can, based on your rec and the favorable comparison to Happy!


Honestly, I don't remember that moment or the series in general hardly at all. I mostly remember Batman supposedly being killed, leaving only his skeleton.

Yay! So glad you're going to look into The Filth, Lardy. And, yes, that particular wording is weird when taken out of context. I'm so tempted to make a joke about how you'll have to shoo away the insects first. LOL.