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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #912891 10/11/16 01:23 PM
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I have (or had) DCCP 13, but I couldn't find it while rummaging through my collection just now.

I remember the fate of Jon Ross, though, and how it drove home the fact that there really was no way to win at this one. Either Superman saves his friend's son and changes history, or he abandons a child and betrays his lifelong friend. Of course, he's Superman. He does what's right, even though what's right stinks.

It's a good question why the Legion had to be involved at all; however, their presence calls attention to a seldom-addressed dilemma in their time travel stories. They know how history turns out (for them), but their non-interference policy makes them complicit to horrific acts. Abandoning Jon is just one small example. What about the wars, murders, and other crimes the Legionnaires could stop but dare not?

It's easy to study something from a remove of a thousand years. But to be present and not only refuse to render assistance but to prevent someone else from doing so is, to my mind, antithetical to what being a hero is all about. I'm not saying the Legion should have interfered, but it must have been very difficult for them not to do so.



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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #912942 10/12/16 03:12 AM
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DC Comics Presents #13

I never read this one before now, though I've always heard about it. Now that I've read it, I can say one thing: this kind of terrible story is the reason that Crisis on Infinite Earths happened. And if Crisis helped erase this travesty, then I'm pretty much on board.

I hated this story.

I thought the entire plot was ridiculous, but at the end of the day, it could have been okay. I thought the Legionnaires were really plot devices who didn't do much, and there was a tremendous missed opportunity for the Legion to interact with a grown Superman. But even that isn't too unusual for DC Comics.

What I hated more than anything was that this issue totally destroys the Pete Ross / Superman friendship and it is totally unnecessary. The fate of Jon Ross ultimately amounts to nothing at all and doesn't make this worth it. Instead, one of the highlights of the Silver Age is shit on.

The moment where Pete reveals to Clark that he knows he's Superman should have been a celebrated moment. Something else else that took decades to get to, and something that should have left readers feeling teary eyed and with a renewed belief in friendship. Instead, its totally glossed over.

The fact that Pete Ross loses his child and ends the issue swearing revenge on Clark is unforgivable.

Ugh.

Thankfully, the Anti-Monitor washed all this away. mad

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
He Who Wanders #913022 10/12/16 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid

The fact that Pete Ross loses his child and ends the issue swearing revenge on Clark is unforgivable.

Ugh.

Thankfully, the Anti-Monitor washed all this away. mad


Not in time for even worse things to be done to Pete Ross. frown

I'm surprised someone didn't write him into a guest appearance with the Legion of Super-Villains. Or did they? Don't recall any appearance.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

It's a good question why the Legion had to be involved at all; however, their presence calls attention to a seldom-addressed dilemma in their time travel stories. They know how history turns out (for them), but their non-interference policy makes them complicit to horrific acts. Abandoning Jon is just one small example. What about the wars, murders, and other crimes the Legionnaires could stop but dare not?

It's easy to study something from a remove of a thousand years. But to be present and not only refuse to render assistance but to prevent someone else from doing so is, to my mind, antithetical to what being a hero is all about. I'm not saying the Legion should have interfered, but it must have been very difficult for them not to do so.


The peculiar thing in this story is that they did take action to interrupt the current war in which Nryvn was engaged. So it was something like pre-ordained intervention, which makes my head hurt.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913089 10/13/16 12:02 PM
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Yeah, and the other thing is, if they hadn't interfered, Superman would have done what he would normally do (rescue Jon). This means that Superman was fated to rescue Jon--except he wasn't. According the Legion, Jon should not be rescued. But that means the Legion was historically destined to interfere with history.

Got it?

I suspect the Legionnaires were just giving Superman the runaround. They were really getting even with Pete Ross for some undisclosed slight. Those vindictive Legionnaires.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
He Who Wanders #913099 10/13/16 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Yeah, and the other thing is, if they hadn't interfered, Superman would have done what he would normally do (rescue Jon). This means that Superman was fated to rescue Jon--except he wasn't. According the Legion, Jon should not be rescued. But that means the Legion was historically destined to interfere with history.

Got it?


No, actually, still grappling. wink The future's intention will always override the present's intention, because the future knows more, assuming time is linear.

Quote
I suspect the Legionnaires were just giving Superman the runaround. They were really getting even with Pete Ross for some undisclosed slight. Those vindictive Legionnaires.


Maybe it's a high honour in the 30th century to be kidnapped and trained as a warlord. They were giving Jon quite the little pep talk.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913115 10/14/16 02:16 AM
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There are good time-travel stories, and bad time-travel stories.

"Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" is one of the best.

"Harry Potter and the Cursed Child" is one of the worst.

I cannot think of a good time-travel story in DC Comics.


Next time we have a DC/Marvel crossover, I want it to take place in the Hostessverse
Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913294 10/16/16 04:26 AM
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Bah! Forgot to check for this issue while I near storage. I have a feeling it's a gap.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913465 10/17/16 09:37 PM
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#255 The Super-Spectacles Swipe by Gerry Conway, art by Joe Staton & Vince Colletta, colours Gene D'Angelo, lettters Ben Oda

[Linked Image]

Jonathan Kent lectures Clark on the importance of identity protection and wonders how the spectacles disguise can fool people. Clark assures him that he uses many other physical techniques of diversion. Nosy Lana is in the store but fails once again to prove that Clark is Superboy. Clark puts his glasses on the counter and thinks of how much easier it is to be with the Legion and not have to have a secret identity. While his back is turned, a buggy-looking alien appears, switches Clark's glasses for another pair and vanishes.

At school, he detects a steamroller about to crush a man and uses his heat-vision to melt the road and stop the machine. His glasses begin to melt, so he drops them and steps on them, then leaves school to go home for another pair. However, his glasses had been made with two pieces of Kryptonian glass salvaged from the rocket ship which brought him to Earth.

Suddenly, Cosmic Boy, Wildfire, Shady and Violet appear in a time bubble and ask him for help. Wildfire says that the melted glasses are part of the problem, but Shady tells him he's confusing Superboy and Cos should relate the story.

There was a break-in at the Superman Museum and Lex Luthor's Time-Ray Projector was stolen. As the Legionnaires and Superboy depart for the 2979, Rokk's story continues: a brilliant ray of light had appeared in Tokyo, and all the people disappeared. Rokk correctly deduced that they had been projected into something like the Phantom Zone, but the Phantom Zone projector could only display them, not restore them.

Suddenly, a loud voice announced that Earth had a new master, The Gorgli, who was holding the the 10 million Tokyo residents captive until he received 10,000 male and female laborers to sell as slaves. Earth's reply was to send S.P. ships to attack the source of this message, but the ships were destroyed and the Legion called in, amid some grumbling, by Earthgov president. The four Legionnaires available took their last remaining cruiser and attacked, only to be blasted back to Earth, protected by Wildfire's energy shield, and falling into ruins left by the Khund War.

They learn of the Superman Museum theft, trace the chronal trail back to Superboy's time and guess that his Kryptonian specs might have been used by The Gorgli to create the laser weapon. Although Superboy goes to the 30th century to help them, he too is defeated by The Gorgli's weapon.

Wildfire comes up with the idea to time travel to Krypton and snatch some lenses from Jor-el's lab. There they meet baby Kal-el, get the lenses and return to their own time. They build a device with these lenses which, with the combined power of Wildfire and Superboy, destroys The Gorgli's ship. The Gorgli is captured, much to his surprise. His weapon will be used to restore the people of Tokyo.

Superboy, holding the Kryptonian lens as a tiny Violet sits on it, has a sense of déja vu. Violet begins to tell him the story of their very first meeting on Krypton.

Comments:

It's a title reminiscent of a Perry Mason show, but there's even less drama - and Violet's no Della.

There's a lot of classic Superboy story in this issue, with elements we'd been reading for decades. Clark in the Kent's store, suspicious Lana, Clark rescuing people at a distance while in school: a somewhat lengthy set-up for the eyeglass story.

The biggest logical problem with the tale is why The Gorgli stole Superboy's glasses and replaced them with a regular pair. Where did he get the identical-looking regular glasses? Why didn't he time travel to Krypton himself and get all the Kryptonian lenses he needed? Wouldn't 30th century Daxam lenses have worked as well? Couldn't The Gorgli have transported 10,000 Terrans into that other dimension, then restored them himself to get slaves to sell? There are a lot of contortions in order to make Superboy the central character of this story.

The Legionnaires make some astounding deductive leaps for their guess that it's Superboy's glasses that are the key component in The Gorgli's sophisticated laser/dimension-casting weapon.

We have a silly-looking villain, operating alone and never seen again. There have been a lot of these in the past few months and they aren't memorable.

There are a few worthy minor details which contribute to the ongoing Legion saga. Shady tells Wildfire to stop talking and let Rokk tell the story, so that character friction is maintained. We get a brief glimpse that Earth and Legion HQ still suffer damage from the Khund War and that some Legionnaires are still on Brande's asteroid appealing for financial aid. The animosity between Earthgov President and the Legion continues, but both sides rise above their feelings to deal with the crisis.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913666 10/19/16 12:58 PM
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I remember liking this story at the time, but not liking the art. I wrote DC a letter saying as much. A few issues later, on the letter's page, the editor acknowledged receiving one letter from a fan who liked the story but not the art. My first stab at fame, and they didn't even mention my name . . .

I appreciate your summary, Cramey, because it touches on some of the reasons why I did like the story. There's a highly nostalgic feel to it, not only in the opening scenes at Kent's store, but also in the plot of the Legionnaires meeting infant Superboy without him knowing it. This sort of nostalgia appeals to the heart of why the Legion remains so appealing to me, and, I suppose, to others: The Legion looks both backwards and forwards: backwards to an imagined time when things were somehow better or cozier than they are now, and forwards to a time when all our progress as human beings will pay off.

Yet there is something off about the story. Pa Kent chastises Clark for something Clark should already know: protecting his identity. This would make sense if Clark were only starting out in his super-hero career, but he's been a hero and a Legionnaire for some time. Likewise, Clark's carelessness in allowing Lana to catch him hoisting a bunch of heavy boxes rings false. Fortunately, in Silver Age fashion, he thinks of a quick solution.

The rest of the plot almost doesn't matter: The Gorgli, the kidnapping of the residents of Tokyo . . these are just McGuffins that set the plot in motion. The real story lies in the Legionnaires visiting Jor-El's laboratory and being surprised by infant Kal. Wouldn't it be great to go back in time and see our friends and loved ones when they were so small, so innocent? What would we say to our loved ones if we could encounter them as children?

I suppose that's why the last scene remains fresh in my memory: Kal and Vi have an honest conversation (or so we're led to believe) about their first encounter. Superboy learns something new about his past that he never knew before. As readers, we get to indulge in the past for a bit before moving on to the problems of the present/future.

255 is a fluff piece, but a rather endearing one.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913702 10/20/16 04:05 AM
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Superboy & the LSH #255

So its been awhile since we’ve read a real dud in our Legion reread, but #255 changes that—in fact, it’s hard for me to describe it in any way other than “dud”. The issue was flat from start to finish and I found my mind wandering as it became a real chore to complete the story. #255 gave me the gravest possible reaction: I didn’t love it, I didn’t hate it, I wasn’t even offended…I simply was bored and didn’t care about it even when I was reading it.

Two things stick out to me as reasons why. The first is that the whole thing feels very corny and 70’s / 80’s sitcom-y to me, which I mean in the most insulting way possible. The final panel felt like canned laughter was sounding off, while the credits rolled and a cheesy early 80’s sitcom theme song played. But most of the issue felt that was in general: corny, undefined enemy; Pa Kent being a ridiculous stereotype (even for him); the story being told in flashback in a way that felt un-dramatic and more like a lesson was being told. The whole feel was just totally off for me.

More jarring was the way Superboy was written. This issue is the first Superboy-centric story in a while. And somewhere, along the way, writers had lost a lot of the magic that made Superboy so popular in first place. I’ll backtrack with some theoretical history: it’s 1979 and DC is recovering at last from the DC Implosion. However, the pre-Implosion dreams of restoring DC to its Silver Age greatness still fill the minds of DC’s higher-ups, as we would soon witness. Among the various ways to that include giving Superboy his own series again and making him the 1950’s sales star that he was—back when Superboy was the second bestselling title at DC. Eventually, we know this happens as DC spins him out into the New Adventures of Superboy, and in the process, Legion fans benefit because we get a solo Legion series once and for all. Which eventually reaches new heights of glory.

Meanwhile, New Adventures of Superboy never really does all that well, and slowly but surely, the concept of “Superman when he was a boy” grows more stagnant. And in the minds of fans, even those in 1980, Superboy was corny and a thing of the past. This idea is because a lot of writers simply did not know how to write Superboy IMO. And Conway shows that here: rather than embrace the joy of the Superboy concept evident in his glory days, Conway feels the need to address the “how do glasses preserve the Clark Kent identity”, which he absolutely should feel no need to go near. He also continues the compulsion to make Superboy exist in some kind of nostalgic era of time’s past that has become even more irrelevant and distant to the modern reader. It’s one thing to go back and read an Otto Binder / Al Platino story from 1958 and revel in the storytelling sensibilities of the time; it’s a whole other thing to see creators in 1979 trying to recreate that magic. I guess, and I realize I may not be totally clear, I just think that by 1979 DC Comics was finding it very hard to write Superboy. (Which isn’t too unique to Superboy—just looks at the Blackhawks, Challengers of the Unknown and a host of others).

If this issue tells me anything its that in 1979 it was high time to pull Superboy out and give the LSH its own series.

Which, coincidently, is the opposite of how I feel right now in 2016. I’d love an Adventure Comics story starring Superboy and the LSH to compliment a solo LSH series, and think it’s a way that DC can gain some sales traction. But that’s a topic for another thread.

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913703 10/20/16 04:06 AM
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HWW, in reading your comments, it definitely presents this issue in a different light. It makes me wonder if I was just in the total wrong mindset to read this issue when I did a few days ago. And on the flip side, when you first read it, you might have been in the right one.

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #913754 10/20/16 11:36 AM
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Your mindset is just as valid as mine, Cobie. In fact, when I reviewed this story back in 2010, my thoughts pretty much mirrored yours--especially about the lengthy flashback killing the story's tension.

In terms of mindset, though . . . at this point in '79, I was a lonely and frustrated 15-year-old who was going through some difficult times. I had failed to connect with the kids my age, and so the Legion took on increasing significance, both in terms of what might have been and what could be (the appeals to the past and the future, as I mentioned). I longed to have loyal, meaningful friendships that I saw in the Legion.

Reading the series was frustrating, though, because DC maintained a juvenile conception of what the Legion was all about. (Your theory about DC trying to regain its Silver Age glory days makes a lot of sense.) I felt I'd outgrown these stories but still felt connected to the characters. Besides, there was always the possibility that the series could be "good" again.

And there was plenty of evidence to support this fragile belief. The X-Men were still riding high in '79, and new life had been breathed into The Avengers. If Marvel could do it, there was no reason DC couldn't. I didn't know anything about the internal politics of comics companies or the mindsets of the people who ran them. I just kept waiting for things to change and grappling onto the character moments (such as Kal recognizing Vi) which occasionally made the stories worthwhile.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #914161 10/24/16 07:50 PM
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#256 This is Your Life – and Death – Brianiac 5! by Gerry Conway, art by Joe Staton & Dave Hunt, colours Gene D'Angelo, lettters Ben Oda

[Linked Image]

Brainiac 5 lounges and reads in a dark, padded cell as some Legionnaires and a doctor observe him. The doctor advises them that Brainy wants to remain in the dark and avoids all social contact, rejecting reality. The Legionnaires are discouraged and suspect he's gotten worse since he emerged to help save some teammates from the League of Assassins. Saturn Girl wonders how much Brainy even knows about himself. On Brande's asteroid, R.J. rages against his bankruptcy and claims it is a set-up. Legionnaires agree and want to help him uncover the conspiracy. Vi whispers to Cham that she wishes Espionage Squad members Saturn Girl and Phantom Girl were with them.

Saturn Girl is busy, however, trying to get the manager of theme park Cosmic World to send their two million customers home for an undisclosed reason. The manager refuses, so the Legionnaires incapacitate him and clear the park themselves.

A third team is clearing the rubble of Legion HQ left after the Khund attack. Timber Wolf loses his temper with the futility of the work and Light Lass calms him, saying that the Legion is an idea, not a clubhouse and space-cruiser.

Brainiac 5 is roused from his lethargy when his cell goes entirely black, then brightens to show he is in miniature form in his childhood playroom, with his parents smiling down at him.

The theme park manager has summoned the Science Police, who confront the Legionnaires but are disabled by Superboy and Cosmic Boy.

Back to Brainiac 5, who is reliving sneers and bullying by classmates, as well as an irate lecture from his father.

At the theme park, the SPs have upped their game and are able to take out both Cos and Superboy. Lightning Lad monitors the situation as Saturn Girl tries to probe Brainy's complicated thoughts. He is reliving an incident in which he saved a young girl who had fallen down a cliff; in reality, the girl had been frightened and pulled away from him, causing him to feel rejected. Now, Saturn Girl instructs Lightning Lad to use the theme park program to have the child hug him in gratitude. Brainy suddenly speaks and affirms that he has recovered and thanks the Legionnaires. He figured out at some point that he was in a hologram room; Garth confirms that they used it to recreate traumatic events from his childhood to help him recover from insanity. The Science Police arrive and tell the three Legionnaires that they are under arrest.


Comments:

Whew! The crazy Brainy saga is over! The simplistic resolution to his mental problems notwithstanding, it's a relief to have that unfortunate part of Legion history resolved. It was a drawn out story, with many implausible aspects and I think it was best to end it, move on and just accept that comic books allowed for such miracle cures.

We've seen, in the last few months, a number of stories in which the Legionnaires act as entitled, above the law people. When they don't get what they want from the theme park manager, they take it by force. Couldn't they wait until nighttime when the park is closed? Did they need the entire park, or only one section of it? What was the urgency in any event? Brainy couldn't sit and stew for a few more days while legal channels were followed? Was the park financially compensated for lost revenue and, possibly, damage to their reputation? This is a very strange behaviour for young, idealistic (and law-abiding) heroes.

Those are my two main criticisms of this story. Otherwise, there's a lot to appreciate.

Conway moves three plot-lines along nicely and sets up some dramatic developments. Crazy Brainy appears to be resolved, but the Brande bankruptcy plot thickens and the Legion continues to suffer the effects of the Khundish invasion, both materially and emotionally.

This is, I believe, the only insight given into Brainiac 5's childhood in the classic Legion. It's one with which many young people could certainly sympathize: the school bullies, the contempt for display of intelligence, the angry, demanding father. Further rejection by the girl he tried to save, although a result of her fear, would have just added to his isolation.

Matter-Eater Lad is mentioned, but there's no help for him. The Legion's focus seems to be entirely on restoring Brainiac 5 to health. Tenzil won't be cured for another 30+ issues. That says a lot about the writers' lack of interest in the character.

I don't recall Saturn Girl being a regular member of the Espionage Squad, but she should have been. Violet's comment that she wishes the other Squad members were with them to deal with the conspiracy against Brande is a gentle indication that not all Legionnaires are suited for all missions. Or is it Violet's personal opinion? Mon-el might be more suited to punching than sneaking, but Shadow Lass's powers certainly suit espionage. Maybe it's her personality? This is the sort of one-line comment on which Legion fan legends are born.





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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #914655 10/31/16 09:50 PM
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#257 Who Stole the Legion? by Gerry Conway, art by Joe Staton & Dave Hunt, colours Gene D'Angelo, lettters Ben Oda

[Linked Image]

The Legionnaires working on the Brande bankruptcy mystery are in an alleyway in Metropolis. Vi shrinks and sneaks past the SPs surrounding Brande's corporate office. Although Mon-el and Shady worry about criminal charges if she's caught, Cham reassures them that subterfuge is necessary and Vi, as an Espionage Squad member, knows the risks. She fights off and disables a robo-vac, then heads down a mail slot to disable the alarm systems.

At the theme park, Lightning Lad starts to explain to police why they took over the park. Brainy interrupts and tells the Legionnaires to remain silent and trust him. They're doubtful, and whisper among themselves, but Saturn Girl tells them that this is Brainy's chance to prove himself. The frustrated SP Captain fails to get an answer from them as Garth and Imra embrace.

A morose R.J. speaks via monitor with Legionnaires at the ruined HQ. They assure him that the below-ground levels are intact and they can rebuild. Phantom Girl tells the others that Brande's only chance to recover lies with the Espionage Squad.

At Brande's offices, SP guards are deceived by Cham masquerading as a cloud to conceal Mon-el and Shady as they land on the penthouse balcony. Shady provides further concealment and the team enters the office through a door which Vi has opened.

At the theme park, the SP Captain dresses down the griping manager (“You are a pain in the kolodny.”), telling him that the Legionnaires are heroes and he has to treat them like criminals. Suddenly, an earthquake causes the anti-grav, which supports the theme park above the Grand Canyon, to fail and the Legionnaires spring into action. Brainy isn't surprised; a computer he built when “indisposed” predicted the quake as a result of the park's years of ecological abuse. Brainy tells Cosmic Boy and Lightning Lad how to stop the quake. The manager guesses that the Legion took over the park in order to deal with this disaster, and the Captain is happy to accept this explanation and let everyone go.

At Brande's office, the four Legionnaires are examining computer files and discover the thief of Brande's entire fortune is none other than the President of Earth.

Comments:

Conway moves the various plots along, wrapping up the crazy Brainy/theme park episode with a save (the earthquake) and a deception (the earthquake as an excuse for taking over the park). The admiring SP Captain is on to the lie, but overlooks it because he admires the Legionnaires so much. The things they get away with!

The distinctive look of the Captain (beret, red hair, sideburns) makes me think that he must be modeled on somebody in particular. A character from a movie or TV show popular at the time? I couldn't trace it.

If written today, the Legionnaires would have just hacked R.J.'s computers to find out who framed him. In 1979, they execute a break-in in the tradition of heist movies and go through the files manually, under the noses of S.P. guards.

Also a product of 1979 is the environmental message: that the quake was caused by the park's ecological neglect. Improbable? This perhaps inspired the 5YL story of how Earth was damaged by centuries of buried toxic waste.

The story ends with a good zinger: why would the President of Earth have stolen R.J.'s money?


Back-up Story: Once a Legionnaire by Gerry Conway, art by Steve Ditko & Dan Adkins, colours Gene D'Angelo, lettters Ben Oda

Chuck and Lu are new colonists on the snow-covered planet Wondil IX. They prevent a mishap with a cargo sled and are recognized as Legionnaires. Adulation follows, which disturbs them as they hoped to lead a quiet, anonymous life. They fear that other colonists will become over-dependent on them.

The next day, they're on an expedition with other colonists looking for crystalak ore deposits. Entering a cave, the group is attacked by an Ice Dragon and cry out for the Legionnaires to save them. They fake defeat and implore one man, Norsk, to attack the creature with an ice-pick. Norsk shatters the beast and becomes the new hero of Wondil IX. Chuck quietly acknowledges to Lu that he knew the Ice Dragon was “an animated ice form of pseudo-life and about as dangerous as a crystal goblet” since they both read the survey report .

Comments:

A simple story, but always enjoyable to see Chuck and Lu. It seems unlikely that they would be able to live unrecognized (especially when they continue to dress in their Legion costume colours). However, the idea of wanting a non-celebrity life is valid, as is the reaction of the other colonists to two famous heroes. By pushing Norsk into the hero role, Chuck shows what an able Academy teacher he will become.

Wondil IX is a strange place for the two to settle. Although it has a temperate zone, Chuck and Lu live in the frozen artic area. Do they like cold weather or have they dreamed of being prospectors and that's where the ore is? It prefigures the snowy planet Xolnar where they'll live in 5YL as SP militia instructors. The art is quite simple (I don't get the love for Steve Ditko), but we are shown a temperature-controlled domed city and the Ice Dragon, while somewhat ridiculous (animated pseudo-life??) is quite lovely.

Minor point of irritation: the planet is Wondil IX, but the text refers to it as part of an eight planet system. Maybe the number three is unlucky there and they skipped it?






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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #914762 11/01/16 12:19 PM
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IX is eight in Wondillian.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #914785 11/02/16 12:25 AM
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Hey guys, will have reviews on last two issues shortly--been traveling and working like a madman lately.

Thanks FC for keeping things moving!

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #914904 11/03/16 02:10 AM
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I’m behind and want to get caught up, but a few quick thoughts on Superboy and the LSH #256:

I thought this was a pretty good issue. Some of it is a bit “pedestrian” and overly straight-forward in how the Legionnaires are able to force Brainy to face past traumas to cure his sanity, but my saying that might just be because I’ve seen this done a thousand times in comics, movies, books and TV shows. Back in 1979 I feel like this was still a relatively newer concept, plus Conway was still writing to younger readers. In that sense, he does a good job at taking a relatively complex narrative tool and presenting it in a very clear, concise and simple manner. Overall, I liked the effect.

This was made all the better by so few Legionnaries being involved in that part of it…though I still question why he didn’t include Projectra. I get that it was down to Superboy & the Founders saving Brainy—thus, the five most iconic Legionnaires. But still, Jeckie was perfect for this piece of it.

I also like how Conway balances the issue with two interludes. First, the Brande subplot, which enjoyably now features the Espionage Squad on a full blown mission, something we haven’t seen in a while. And second, the Legionnaires still picking up the pieces of their destroyed HQ. I like how Conway has really dragged this out and not given any quick fixes. Timberwolf reacts in a very human way here, and Ayla’s words are very comforting; they’re also very applicable for regular problems that readers have.

The Legionnaires commandeering the park was surprising but I don’t mind it. Again, this shows a very human side of the Legionnaires and they should subsequently get into trouble. If I’m remembering it correctly, its also a good parallel for what happens with the Brainy subplot.

Overall, a pretty solid issue, and the art was also good.

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #914913 11/03/16 02:34 AM
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Superboy and the LSH #257 is split up, and the first story feels really short; that being said, there’s some interesting bits in there, and some really great commentary by FC!

The Brande subplot moves along again as it starts to reach its conclusion; meanwhile, we get a wrap-up on last issue’s plot in which Brainiac 5 has a nice redeeming moment. Given how the Brande subplot ends, it kind of ties into the theme of this issue and last issue with the Legionnaires acting above the law and breaking a few rules to do, what they perceive to be, the “right thing”. That’s hard to see at first though. (And I realize I know why I remember: there is an EXCELLENT thread on LW that debates the pros and cons of the Earthgov President stealing RJ’s money; we should try to find it when we review the next issue; it features some really great commentary by our own HWW, which I suddenly remember from like 10 years ago).

I really like the sci-cop and how he’s portrayed here. He doesn’t want to arrest the Legionnaires because he respects them and feels, rightly, that he and everyone owes them one. However, he is duty bound and must adhere to the law. Yet, when he gets the chance, he lets them off the hook. I think all of these things make him very likable and very relatable. I know if I was a cop I’d be doing that kind of thing constantly, and would do everything I could to never arrest anyone who saved my life or my family’s.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

The distinctive look of the Captain (beret, red hair, sideburns) makes me think that he must be modeled on somebody in particular. A character from a movie or TV show popular at the time? I couldn't trace it.


Yes, I wonder about that too! And I’m almost sure we see him again during Levitz’s run, though I can’t remember when and where.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
If written today, the Legionnaires would have just hacked R.J.'s computers to find out who framed him. In 1979, they execute a break-in in the tradition of heist movies and go through the files manually, under the noses of S.P. guards.


Good comment on the changing times. The “hacking” part of every heist or crime story now has become the most boring, eye-rolling part of those genres. But they’re a clear part of the shift from 1979 to now in how those stories are told.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Also a product of 1979 is the environmental message: that the quake was caused by the park's ecological neglect. Improbable? This perhaps inspired the 5YL story of how Earth was damaged by centuries of buried toxic waste.


Another good catch! I’m curious myself—it seems really reasonable that this plot inspired TMK #38. We know the Bierbaums mined this issues ingeniously for the TMK Annual #2 featuring Ultra Boy and Glorith (and ended up really making sense out of them, especially as pertains to Brainy and Jo).

---------------------

Lastly, commenting on the Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel back-up, all I can really say is that its kind of a cute story that fits more in line with the early Silver Age, and even the earlier 1950’s. It’s really a small sci-fi story with a twist ending and message that happens to feature two Legionnaires.

I’m a huge Steve Ditko fan, and I found his art to be really enjoyable here, even if it didn’t quite fit 1979. It was actually better than I remember Ditko LSH stories to be, as I know he’ll eventually do a few more issues and some will be a little lackluster. The man is a true legend and genius of comic book history and seeing him do some oddball sci-fi back-ups is kind of fun. As the artist on the lead story, I’m not quite as enthusiastic, but here I like it.

What an interesting life Chuck and Luornu end up living! Legionnaires, colonists, Academy Instructors, Militia leaders. They should have their own all-ages series where they get into strange adventures and hilarity tends to ensue.

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Cobalt Kid #915034 11/03/16 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid

(And I realize I know why I remember: there is an EXCELLENT thread on LW that debates the pros and cons of the Earthgov President stealing RJ’s money; we should try to find it when we review the next issue; it features some really great commentary by our own HWW, which I suddenly remember from like 10 years ago).


I think I found the thread in which bankruptcy is discussed (in the Conway Legion thread from 2010, with some great insights from HWW) and will link to it for next week. Thanks for the reminder, Cobie!


Quote
I really like the sci-cop and how he’s portrayed here. He doesn’t want to arrest the Legionnaires because he respects them and feels, rightly, that he and everyone owes them one. However, he is duty bound and must adhere to the law. Yet, when he gets the chance, he lets them off the hook. I think all of these things make him very likable and very relatable. I know if I was a cop I’d be doing that kind of thing constantly, and would do everything I could to never arrest anyone who saved my life or my family’s.


He's been given a personality in a few short panels. Too bad they didn't continue with him as a supporting character. Maybe he dyed his hair, aged and became Zendak? I can't place him from Levitz' run either, but there were so many characters.


Quote
What an interesting life Chuck and Luornu end up living! Legionnaires, colonists, Academy Instructors, Militia leaders. They should have their own all-ages series where they get into strange adventures and hilarity tends to ensue.


Exactly! I'd love to read the story in which Chuck & Lu transition from Wondil IX settlers to Legion Academy. Those two could carry a series IMO, with guest appearances.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #915563 11/07/16 09:12 PM
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#258 The Mind-Attack of the Psycho-Warrior by Gerry Conway, art by Joe Staton & Dave Hunt, colours Gene D'Angelo, lettters Milt Snapinn

[Linked Image]

Legionnaires, in R.J. Brande's penthouse, advise him that President Kandru has stolen his fortune. Brande is devestated and confused. Suddenly, SP officers burst through a wall and accuse the Legionnaires of trespass on government property. Saturn Girl advises Lightning Lad that these aren't real SPs and that they intend to kill the Legionnaires. As the Legionnaires battle the fake officers, Violet manages to summon the authentic Sps.

As this is going on, a prisoner, with an unspecified gripe against the Legion, breaks out of the asylum on St. Croix, easily disabling all the guards.

With the fake SPs taken into custody by the real deal, Legionnaires and R.J. address the Earth Planetary Council and present their evidence that President Kandru embezzled R.J.'s fortune. An emotional Kandru confesses, claiming he did it to alleviate the suffering of the people of Earth following the Khund invasion. As the unrepentant Kandru is led from the chamber, R.J. is advised that he will be given his money back. However, he surprises everyone by claiming that Kandru was morally right, so Earth can keep the money and he will make another billion.

The escaped prisoner seeks revenge on four Legionnaires in particular: Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Sun Boy and Superboy. He has used the institute's computer to identify their greatest psychological weaknesses.

The Legionnaires stand amid their still-ruined HQ and offer to help R.J. rebuild his fortune. Suddenly, Sun Boy is enshrouded in darkness and panics. Wildfire manages to dispel the darkness, but Dirk is catatonic with fear. Saturn Girl is the next to collapse, overwhelmed by thoughts she can't turn off. As Lightning Lad holds her, she appears to turn to dust – but only to his own eyes. The Legionnaires deduce that an enemy is attacking them through their psychological weaknesses, and wonder who will be the next victim of the Psycho-Warrior.

Comments:
President Kandru presents us with a moral dilemma. He has stolen money and property, but nothing for himself: it's to help starving and dying people. There are significant logic flaws in this tale: who is the Minister of Finance? Who keeps the government books? How was the money distributed? Are there no checks and balances in this administration? It's a comic book embezzlement. Nevertheless, the situation is a tragic and complicated one.

The part of the story that deals with R.J.'s bankruptcy is very moving, even inspirational. This is R.J. Brande at his best and we understand how a man like that could found a group like the Legion. I think it's at this point in Legion history that R.J. Brande became more than the guy who dispenses the credits. He recognizes that he has isolated himself from people and become oblivious to their shared humanity; this is certainly a criticism of the wealthy in our society today. This is the man who would be portrayed by TMK as the inspired and energetic entrepreneur, ready to take on the galaxy. The Legionnaires, who have yet to rebuild their HQ, offer to devote their time to helping the man who helped them. Heroes all around!

This issue, and R.J.'s reaction in particular, was well-discussed by HWW and Cobie, in the Gerry Conway thread from 2010. Thanks to Cobie for noting that last week.

I think the story should have ended there, on that high point amid the rubble of the HQ, before the Psycho-Warrior struck. Throw in a back-up story to meet the page count. It would have been sufficient for me, to have the Psycho-Warrior breaking out of St. Croix and vowing revenge against four Legionnaires, as we had in the middle of this story; that would have created the set-up for the next issue.

At this stage, the Psycho-Warrior is a villain of uncertain threat. It appears that he needed the computer to determine the specific weaknesses of the four heroes; he'd certainly be more deadly if he could just read a person instantly and invoke their fear. There has been a lot of madness in the Legion lately.

One more aspect of this story: Cham is once again the guy who's figuring things out. Although not Legion Leader, he's the one who presents their findings to the Council. None of us back then knew he was defending his father, so it's a nice touch in retrospect. Cham also makes a nifty chair and turns his hands into pliers.

Also of note is Wildfire's manner of speech: “We haveta get him outta there!” Casual, like we do actually speak, but seldom is the Legionnaires' speech written that way. It's a style usually reserved for street punks and petty criminals in comics.

We occasionally come across codes for military-style manoeuvers in Legion stories, but this is the first time I recall seeing one explained. Lightning Lad shouts out “Situation Eighteen!! Execute Option B!” and, fortunately for the reader, other team members translate: “Challenge by imposters!! An all out attack against enemy forces!” It would be a nice exercise in Legion minutiae to catalogue all these codes.

The letterer doesn't usually merit mention, but new name on the roster Milt Snapinn does use some nice wavy typeface for Dirk and Imra as they lose consciousness.


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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #915703 11/09/16 04:40 AM
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Superboy & The Legion of Super-Heroes #258

At first blush, this issue reads like a pretty bland story and that criticism isn’t too far off the mark. There isn’t a lot here that is offensive or bad, but there isn’t a lot to really wow the reader either. That being said, having just read it, I found #258 to be a relatively solid Legion superhero story that balanced classic superhero action with a heavy subplot pretty well. The usual favorites get most of the screen time (Superboy, Garth, Imra, Wildfire) though Vi and Cham get nice moments too at least.

Many thanks for posting the link to the thread, FC, as I think that thread gives a bit more ‘meat’ to the story and the discussion surrounding President Kandru, RJ Brande and the ultimate upbeat decision for him to forgive the UP and move on to try to recreate his fortune on his own. Conway presents a pretty complicated topic and scales it down for a superhero story, providing an uplifting though overly simplified ending. But that was part and parcel of the times, and he deserves some kudos for venturing into the topic at all, I think. Kandru broke the law but for “the right reasons”, like so much financial / political crime. Yet, RJ’s forgiveness shouldn’t quite extend to the readers: in reality such a ‘quick fix’ probably wouldn’t be a fix at all, and simply delay the problems, and the a government setting a precedent probably leads to the downfall of civilization in about 100 years. I like that it’s a loaded topic, and that while fitting it into an LSH story probably makes for boring reading, discussing it on LW over the years has been fun.

The main takeaway of the story is this: RJ Brande walks off with his confidence restored, feeling as if he has done the right thing, and its hard not to love him for it. Up until now, he had been on the periphery of Legion lore. He appeared every so often, almost as a doting uncle. Here, for the first time, you start to really like him and his hidden depths. Only later during the reboot would we get to see this Brande, and see him much more completely; this story must be the kernel for those later appearances. (And yeah, Reboot RJ Brande is one of the best supporting characters ever IMO).

As FC says, the transition to the Pscyho Warrior plot is a rocky one. Usually there are two stories that I wish they somehow wove together. Now, I’m agreeing that this is really more of a back-up story and if they’re trying to get away from having two stories in one issue, they have to simply do a better job. PW has a great costume with a pretty ridiculous looking helmet though thus far he appears to be a real threat—something that is disproven rather quickly in the next issue.

Lastly, I’ll note that this cover inspired some hilarious threads and posts by Lash and others on Legion World about things crumbling into dust. So for that, I’ll always be thankful for this story smile

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #916211 11/14/16 08:37 PM
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#259 Psycho War by Gerry Conway, art by Joe Staton & Dave Hunt, colours Gene D'Angelo, lettters Milt Snapinn

[Linked Image]

The Psycho Warrior lurks above the confused Legionnaires and looks forward to attacking his final target, Superboy. His musing is interrupted when St. Croix medical personnel arrive. They examine the fallen Legionnaires, apply some treatment and say they can explain what happened. Everyone retires to Brande's penthouse and a doctor tells the history of Rejis Thomak, the Psycho warrior. He came from Bunyon's World, filled with monstrous predators, animal and vegetable. He fell in love and he and his girl left together to study on Earth. Their ship was caught by a star going nova; he escaped but she was vaporized. He drifted in a survival suit for two months, in shock, was rescued and taken to the St. Croix facility. There, he observed Brainiac 5's Legion visitors, notably attracted by Sun Boy's sun symbol. His behaviour became violent and he eventually escaped, after taking the psych-profiles of the Legionnaires which were stored at the facility.

The Psycho-Warrior attacks with a diversionary tactic, followed by an optic detonator which causes paralysis of the optic nerves. The Legionnaires are incapacitated, except for Superboy, who follows Rejis into space. Superboy grabs Rejis but then collapses, suspecting he was hit with kryptonite radiation. He falls into a graveyard, before the tombstone of Martha and Jonathan Kent. He then sees his foster parents and hears how they died and how he was powerless to save them. Superboy collapses in grief, knowing that he can't change the past – but then rallies, realizes this is a mind-trick and that he is in the Superman Museum with robot replicates of the Kents.

He captures the Psycho-warrior and makes him face his own greatest fear, the sun. This causes Rejis to admit that it was his fault that his girlfriend died. Superboy takes him back to St. Croix for therapy.

Epilogue: Superboy explains to the Legionnaires that he must just accept the knowledge of the Kents' death, even if it hurts, and he wants to keep their memory alive when he's in the future – even though he'll forget this detail when he returns to his own time. As he leaves, Garth asks Imra, “Did you do it?”

As Superboy flies off, Imra relates that she planted in Kal's brain a hypnotic command to remain in his own time. Otherwise, he would risk suffering from further unpleasant discoveries about his time and this is a way to protect this noble young man.

Comments:
A humdrum story, until we get to the profound and morally difficult ending. This truly is one comic which could have been honestly previewed as “nothing will ever be the same again”. Superboy is gone, for a very extended period.

Rejis' backstory takes up six pages and, while it explains his actions, it's not particularly unusual for a science fiction story. Disabling the Legionnaires so that the action can shift to Superboy, the last remaining victim, is also a common device.

The Legionnaires decide that Superboy must be spared the pain of knowing how life turned out for him and those he loved in the 20th century. Unfortunately, we are not privy to any discussions that led to this decision. Nor do the Legionnaires consult Superboy on the matter. By so doing, they may spare him pain, but they also prevent him from any joy he might have had to learn about his life, his friendships, his Clark Kent career, the adventures he had and the people he saved as Superman.
The Legionnaires had good intentions, but Superboy had already come to terms with the situation in a mature manner. He had faced and triumphed over his greatest fear. Did the Legionnaires have the right to rob him of that accomplishment?

It's a big topic to be crammed into two pages, but perhaps not a topic in which young readers would have been particularly interested. However, it's what made the story worth reading for me.









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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Fat Cramer #916462 11/17/16 04:42 AM
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Legion of Super-Heroes #259 (wow, feels cool to write that finally in a review!!!)

The issue is something of a paradox: something incredibly HUGE happens—perhaps the single biggest change to Legion history up until that point—and yet, the majority of the issue is pretty “humdrum” to borrow a phrase from FC. There’s a lot of psycho babble, and the ending good yet “done a million times already”; but for the most part, the Psycho-Warrior never feels all that threatening, and the exploration of the Legionnaire’s fears never really feels all that well done. It really lacks the tension and excitement needed, and that leaves me feeling like Superboy’s exit is more about getting him out of the series ASAP rather than creating a really fantastic send-off.

There is a lot of science-fiction, and PW’s origin is chalk full of it, but like the issue itself, its got a lot of good ideas that aren’t really showcased in a way that makes them feel all that exciting.

I also agree with FC that the real interesting part of the story, the Legionnaire’s method of expelling Superboy, is glossed over. It’s pretty hooky on the surface, but if they spent some time on it, it could have been a very interesting discussion.

Weak story or not, that brings a close to Archive #15 and it also marks a major turning point! The LSH are on their own without Superboy, and have their own series at last! All that has come since this issue was released builds off of this concept in a way. Yet, it really takes about another 25 issues before the promise of a solo LSH series is really ever fulfilled. Until then, we get a lot of the same weak stories with the usual cast in the usual costumes. That being said, I’m very interested to see what hidden gems might be in waiting to be rediscovered.

Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Cobalt Kid #916463 11/17/16 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
Legion of Super-Heroes #259 (wow, feels cool to write that finally in a review!!!)

The issue is something of a paradox: something incredibly HUGE happens—perhaps the single biggest change to Legion history up until that point—and yet, the majority of the issue is pretty “humdrum” to borrow a phrase from FC.


Good point. In fact, Superboy had left the Legion before--back in Action # 387--and that story, too, was sort of humdrum. Yet the Action story is in many ways more effective than LSH 259:

1. The threat in the Action story (one of the Legionnaires must go) is clear from the very beginning.

2. The threat is unusual for super-hero comics. It's not a villain who causes a Legionnaire to leave, it's an all-too-common tax problem--which our heroes can't fight their way out of.

3. Superboy exercises his own agency in leaving (though, in all fairness, he plays a trick on the Legionnaires, just as they "play" one on him here. This story ironically reverses the situation).

So, although LSH 259 contains a momentous event, it doesn't feel momentous. Also, the cover telegraphs the ending, as does the change in the series title.

When I first read this story, I was conflicted because I knew the Legionnaires did what they thought best for Superboy--just as they had done for Brainy three issues earlier. The Legion always had a dysfunctional and parental way of looking out for each other: You may not like what we're about to do, but it's for your own good--even if we have to deceive you into accepting it.

Yet I couldn't help wondering why it was necessary for him to leave the Legion entirely. Surely there was nothing to prevent him from learning about the Kents' deaths when he had visited the future many times before. If it were that easy for Saturn Girl to place a mental block to keep him from returning to the future, why couldn't she have placed a similar block to prevent him from inquiring about the Kents' fate the next time he came into the 30th century? Why not simply erase his memories of the event, as had happened before (e.g., the kryptonite capsule in Adv. 350)? Or, better yet, let him accept it--as he had already done?




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Re: Rereading the Legion: Archives Volume 15
Cobalt Kid #916497 11/17/16 08:53 PM
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That comparison with Action #387 raises the important question of agency. The story might have been more effective if Superboy had decided that he should spend more time with his parents while they were alive and therefore drop his visits to the 30th century.

That would have been more positive than having the Legionnaires determine that he couldn't stand discovering details about his life.


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders

When I first read this story, I was conflicted because I knew the Legionnaires did what they thought best for Superboy--just as they had done for Brainy three issues earlier. The Legion always had a dysfunctional and parental way of looking out for each other: You may not like what we're about to do, but it's for your own good--even if we have to deceive you into accepting it.


That is a rather strange viewpoint. It makes sense for a know-it-all like Brainiac 5, but for the Legion as a whole to behave that way...? I wonder if that mindset was found in stories of other groups like JLA or X-Men. It's similar to the entitlement behaviour we've seen in some of the recent stories, with Legionnaires ignoring the law or co-opting something for their own use.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
There’s a lot of psycho babble, and the ending good yet “done a million times already”; but for the most part, the Psycho-Warrior never feels all that threatening, and the exploration of the Legionnaire’s fears never really feels all that well done. It really lacks the tension and excitement needed, and that leaves me feeling like Superboy’s exit is more about getting him out of the series ASAP rather than creating a really fantastic send-off.


Agreed, some of the fears didn't seem all that terrible, especially Dirk's. Does he sleep with the lights on?

Quote
Yet, it really takes about another 25 issues before the promise of a solo LSH series is really ever fulfilled. Until then, we get a lot of the same weak stories with the usual cast in the usual costumes. That being said, I’m very interested to see what hidden gems might be in waiting to be rediscovered.


That's what keeps me going. I have been surprised that there is more to these stories (positive and negative) than I remembered, in terms of the small details.


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