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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
Bold Flavors
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Bold Flavors
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634 |
^^Well said, Cobie, altho I'm not as sold on Morrison's Chief as you.
Have you read Morrison's "Flex Mentallo" mini-series yet? I see that as the culmination of this fruitful era for him. I haven't yet! In fact, I haven't read a TPB or OGN in like over a year. I'm about half way through reading War and Peace right now but when its over, I may do one of my patented mega-TPB buys and Flex is at the top of the list. Regarding the Chief, I want to clarify: I didn't like the Chief as a person. In fact, I basically couldn't stand him. But I loved the way Morrison wrote him. The "twist" just felt so perfect and so batshit crazy to me. And for the time it was so cutting edge (unlike now where every character in every medium is basically evil all along and you never knew it). But I loved them all in their own way. I don't really have a favorite. I also like that this was a "moment in time" that can't be replicated. One of the things that was nice about Rachel Pollack's run was she took the ball and ran in her own direction, without trying to replicate Grant's work. Something else else I wanted to point out: I've always felt there is some nice similarity between Robot Man and the FF's Thing. Both have a "lovable tough guy" quality to them; both have tempers, both can be caring people who are loyal to their family & friends, and both have been put through some serious shit. Cliff may not ever be my #1 favorite character at any given time, but he's the character I always want on the team, because he's kind of Mr. Ol' Reliable.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
^^Well said, Cobie, altho I'm not as sold on Morrison's Chief as you.
Have you read Morrison's "Flex Mentallo" mini-series yet? I see that as the culmination of this fruitful era for him. I haven't yet! In fact, I haven't read a TPB or OGN in like over a year. I'm about half way through reading War and Peace right now but when its over, I may do one of my patented mega-TPB buys and Flex is at the top of the list. Glad to learn it's at the top of your list. There really is not a lot he's done in the past 20 years that I like as much as Flex and DP and Animal Man. Off the top of my head, I can cite: the Watchmen riff and the Shazam homage from Multiversity, and the better bits of Invisibles, All Star Superman, and 7 Soldiers. And I've heard great things about We3, but I'm afraid to read it in case one of the three animals dies; I don't think I'd be able to bear it. Regarding the Chief, I want to clarify: I didn't like the Chief as a person. In fact, I basically couldn't stand him. But I loved the way Morrison wrote him. The "twist" just felt so perfect and so batshit crazy to me. And for the time it was so cutting edge (unlike now where every character in every medium is basically evil all along and you never knew it). I think you've hit the nail in the head on exactly why we differ on Morrison's Chief. For a long time, the only part of Morrison's DP I had read was the original Crawling from the Wreckage trade. By the time the rest of the run was collected several years ago, the "evil all along" trend had left a stain all across the superhero genre, and I was wary of it. But I loved them all in their own way. I don't really have a favorite. I also like that this was a "moment in time" that can't be replicated. One of the things that was nice about Rachel Pollack's run was she took the ball and ran in her own direction, without trying to replicate Grant's work. Agreed. Something else else I wanted to point out: I've always felt there is some nice similarity between Robot Man and the FF's Thing. Both have a "lovable tough guy" quality to them; both have tempers, both can be caring people who are loyal to their family & friends, and both have been put through some serious shit. Cliff may not ever be my #1 favorite character at any given time, but he's the character I always want on the team, because he's kind of Mr. Ol' Reliable. And again, agreed 100%.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
And I've heard great things about We3, but I'm afraid to read it in case one of the three animals dies; I don't think I'd be able to bear it.
Without getting too spoilery: We3 is pretty amazing, beautiful, disturbing and heart-wrenching, BUT there's a fair degree of animal-on-human, human-on-animal and animal-on-animal violence that doesn't always end well for the 3.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
And I've heard great things about We3, but I'm afraid to read it in case one of the three animals dies; I don't think I'd be able to bear it.
Without getting too spoilery: We3 is pretty amazing, beautiful, disturbing and heart-wrenching, BUT there's a fair degree of animal-on-human, human-on-animal and animal-on-animal violence that doesn't always end well for the 3. Thanks, Dave. That's pretty much what I was afraid of. I'm sure I'll read it eventually, but not in the immediate future.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
...I like the Brotherhood of Dada!
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
...I like the Brotherhood of Dada! I *love* the Brotherhood of Dada! Like I said before, I think Doom Patrol #50, where the BoD stands ready to take on the world, is the peak of the Morrison era and one of the best anniversary issues ever published.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666 |
My favorite DP story ever is the journey thru Crazy Jane's mind conducted by her personality of Driver 8. This is easily one of my favorite Morrison stories, if not one of my overall favorite stories ever.
Cheers, mate! 100% agree Crazy Jane was a great character and concept but that issue just rocked me
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,666 |
I have always enjoyed the Doom Patrol. My first exposure was seeing them on the cover of DC Comics Presents with Superman, then again in Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans. I loved them and wanted to know more about them. I followed their return in Teen Titans, as well as the development of Mento.
Morrison's Doom Patrol shifted what I thought was possible in comics and primed me for years of Vertigo and indie books. Pollack confused me and turned me away from DP.
I came back to Doom Patrol when they re-entered the DCU proper, largely because of Celsius. And I hated how that turned out.
Since then, I haven't enjoyed DP. There was the weird bit that appeared in Teen Titans and Secret 6. I am SOOOOO looking forward to the new series though. It's one of the most exciting things for me on the DC schedule.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
I came back to Doom Patrol when they re-entered the DCU proper, largely because of Celsius. And I hated how that turned out. Funnily enough, last night I re-read the five Steve Lightle issues of the 80s Doom Patrol -- the only pre-Morrison issues I hadn't already gotten rid of -- but now I think I'm going to get rid of 4 and 5, because, Jeez Louise, after that promising first arc where Celsius gets the team back together and they battle her demon-possessed father with delusions of godhood, it just goes straight down the toilet. The new characters were SO annoying, no wonder Morrison kept Rhea in a coma for so long. "Rhea in a coma, I know, I know, it's serious"
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
I don't know if I ever mentioned this, but a couple of years ago I got George Perez to do a con sketch of Danny the Street since Danny can be considered a Teen Titan now.
Just about the only decent thing Scott Lobdell ever did on his run with the Titans.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
Guys, I HAD to share this awesome DP commission Richard Case did for someone. It's a Victorian style Doom Patrol and I never realized until now how much I needed Rebis in a dress. http://rhomblog.blogspot.com/2015/06/doom-patrol-of-occult.html
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,775 |
Hmm, if anyone here read Flex Mentallo, what did you guys think of it?
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Sarky, I've been praising Flex Mentallo to the skies here at Legion World ever since I read it a little under three years ago when it was finally collected in hardcover. Here's my full-length review, originally posted August 21, 2013 in the Random Review Corner thread: If I hadn't been so anti-DC and so anti-Vertigo at the time, and if 1996 hadn't been such a horrible year for comics in general, I might not have missed this masterpiece the first time around. There's some parallel universe out there where a young Fanfie read this in 1996, and her life was altered for the better.
For this is genuinely a life-altering comic, the first thing I've read by Morrison that truly lives up to the hype. Oh, I've enjoyed a few other things of his -- 7 Soldiers, All Star Supes, and especially Animal Man. Really, if you liked Animal Man, you'll love this -- guaranteed. Because Morrison explores a lot of the same themes -- superheroes before they became tainted by pseudo-realism, the elusive nature of reality -- but in a much more self-assured way, and, crucially, with art that is more than merely functional. Yes, Frank Quitely is an acquired taste, but here he and Morrison achieve that rare kind of creative chemistry which can only be called transcendental. Quitely's combination of indie quirkiness and abundant detail fits Morrison's story like a hand in glove.
The incorruptibly sweet-natured titular superhero, who looks to me kind of like a muscle-bound Morrissey in a loincloth (Morrison is definitely a Smiths fan, I don't know what he thinks of solo Morrissey) sets out on a quest to find his former teammate and best friend, The Fact (a Question/Batman analog), which leads him through the grimy city and beyond, into worlds of both horror and wonder. Running parallel to Flex's quest is the emotional breakdown of a drugged-up loser and wannabe rock star as he babbles on the phone about superheroes.
If you're rolling your eyes and thinking, "Typical Morrison," hang on a second, because as a former Morrison skeptic, I came into this with zero expectations. What's most amazing is not that it delivers, but that it delivers because of Morrison's self-consciously cerebral meta-commentary, not in spite of it!
As I was typing this rave review, I had to bring myself back down to Earth with the sobering reminder that Morrison followed up "Flex Mentallo" with the bombastic mediocrity of what I call "The Infallible Batman featuring the JLA."
Thus the question for me is no longer, "Can Morrison deliver 100%?", but rather, "Will Morrison ever scale these heights again?"
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,464
Deputy
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Deputy
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,464 |
I was always a fan of the classic Doom Patrol, and I was out of the habit of buying comics when Morrison's Doom Patrol came out-- and quite frankly once it came out that he made the Chief a bad guy I lost all interest in ever looking at that iteration of the Doom Patrol.
The original Dooom Patrol was a pretty unique property for a DC Comic. In fact, it comes across as one of the most Marvel-like comics Silver Age DC ever did. Cliff, Larry, and Rita were heroes without secret identities-- heroes who wanted to be recognized by their real names instead of codenames. Consistently in the comics they referred to each other by their first names-- and often feuded and fussed with each other.
And the Chief was a brilliant man whose handicap did NOT keep him from being a heroic figure ... one capable of going out into the field when needed.
And in a time when Superboy was still calling Jonathan and Martha Kent his "foster parents" and Bruce Wayne had Dick Grayson as his "ward", you not only had Steve and Rita adopting teenaged Beast Boy, but you had Steve straight out telling Gar that he was expecting Gar to inherit his fortune one day.
The DP was a DC team unlike any other team I'd read of before when I first encountered them, and they'll always have a special place in my heart.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168 |
The original Dooom Patrol was a pretty unique property for a DC Comic. In fact, it comes across as one of the most Marvel-like comics Silver Age DC ever did. Cliff, Larry, and Rita were heroes without secret identities-- heroes who wanted to be recognized by their real names instead of codenames. Consistently in the comics they referred to each other by their first names-- and often feuded and fussed with each other.
The Doom Patrol is frequently compared to the X-Men, but in the above respect they were very much like the Fantastic Four ... an even more dysfunctional FF, but all the same...
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,055
Long live the Legion!
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Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,055 |
I liked the 'new generation' of Negative Woman, Tempest and Celsius (way back in the day), but they never really seemed to resonate, and sort of fell out of use.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168 |
Makes me think that the X-Men's "All-New, All-Different" team that introduced Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler and Colossus was really the only time a replacement team became way more popular than the originals .... (maybe Teen Titans)
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
First issue of the Way/Derington DP has been purchased and is safely set down inside my home. Review to come soon.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Not bad at all. Quite promising, IMO. And a tiny bit too self-conscious. If the above sounds like damning with faint praise, be assured that was not my intention. I don't think Morrison's version of DP hit the ground running, either, and I had the same feeling of excessive self-consciousness from my first reading of that run. Love Casey, unconditionally so!! She is the perfect point-of-view character, and her acute quirkiness is endearing rather than annoying or creepy. Well done, Mr. Way!! I like her work partner, Sam. Way both makes him instantly likeable and hints at a lot of intriguing things about him with only a few bold writerly strokes. I look forward to the introduction of his son Lucius and to finding out exactly what happened to Lucius's mother. Cor, an exploding gyro! (Young Ones reference wholly intentional.) Splendid! And Robotman, the one DP constant. I didn't see what happens to him coming at all. I'm sure it's temporary. Casey appropriating Robotman's jacket was priceless. The evil alien corporate fat cats appear too cliché, but maybe Mr. Way has some surprises up his sleeve. And it doesn't hurt that we're on the verge of being reintroduced to the fabulous Danny. Now, Terry None...the jury's still out. She could get annoying very quickly. OTOH... Blowing up Casey's jerkweed of a roommate to sub-atomic particles was golden. Accident or not, I'm glad it happened. Does that make me evil? Don't know what to make of the seemingly tangential and cryptic (if beautifully colored) last two pages at all. They reek of Mr. Way's tendencies toward Morrison-flattery-by-imitation which Dave mentioned earlier on. I know that the brick is a reference to Danny (even though I didn't read the last version of DP, I learned of his being reduced to a brick through reviews in this forum,) but the rest of it has me mystified. What it comes down to in the end is, I'm reading DP issue #2 for sure.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
It was weird and wonderful and a lot of fun. I DO think he's trying a bit too hard to homage Morrison, but there's definitely enough original stuff here to recommend it. I'm hoping he finds his own voice quickly and settles into a groove.
My favourite page was the seemingly non sequitur one of Niles Calder out in the wilderness tuning his keyboards. It made me laugh.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Dave, do you have any thoughts on what the last two pages might have been about?
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
Other than the obvious, that Danny killed some kind of king (can he throw himself, or did someone throw him through the window?) Not sure about the lion with all the light arrows. Seems like something that will be revealed in time.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Thanks. Yeah, in hindsight, I should have caught the "killing-the-king" theme right away. Perhaps a symbol for newer, more progressive British attitudes (as in tolerance and acceptance of LGBT sentients, including, of course, Danny) finally killing off the old, repressive British attitudes? (We can dream.)
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168 |
I DO think he's trying a bit too hard to homage Morrison, .... My favourite page was the seemingly non sequitur one of Niles Calder out in the wilderness tuning his keyboards. It made me laugh. While I also LOVED Morrison's run, and it's what got me into DP in the first place, I think maybe having Cliff wear his jacket from two (?) volumes ago, might be a but much. I don't think they needed such a blatant recall of the past if they wanted to not seem like they were just trying to emulate that previous run. That said, if anything, to me this issue drew comparisons to this month's "Moon Knight" more than anything else - the shifts in focus, the different art styles and including a seemingly non sequitur sci-fi scene that is discongruent with previous history of the franchise. I'm a little concerned that whatsername just kinda took it in stride that her roommate was blown to bits in front of her eyes. I know she's had weird shit happen to her in the past, and maybe her reaction is meant to be part of it, but I'm not clear about it. Her friend (sorry, names haven't' stuck with me yet) and others think of robot-men and stuff as weird, but they're supposed to be in the DCU - "weird" should be a relative term there. Other than that, this issue is basically what I was expecting given the pre-release press about it. The coming months will show whether or not this title lives up to the Young Animals's mission statement of being "dangerous" or if DP is just a rehash of the past with a new coat of paint... Oh! I almost forgot --- that scene with Caulder just made me realize that if DP were ever a movie, it should be directed by Wes Anderson. (and yeah, Niles Caulder would be played by Bill Murray, Negative Man played by Owen *and* Luke Wilson, Jason Schwartzman as the voice and mo-cap performance of Robotman)
Last edited by DrakeB3004; 09/15/16 07:21 PM.
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Re: The All-Doom Patrol thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Drake, it took me a couple minutes after reading your post to realize this, but I think that Casey's matter-of-fact response to the accidental (?) death of her roommate (who, let's not forget, was an utter prick) was meant to be a bit of deeply dark comedy in a similar mold to, say, the callous detachment of the main characters from "Seinfeld" at their best/worst (death of a fiancée by wedding-invitation envelope glue, anyone?) Admittedly, it's not the best light to shine on a freshly introduced protagonist, but I have a feeling that Way is going to be exploring and dissecting the concept of moral relativity in a *big*...uh...way.
And regarding the jacket, perhaps it's Way's...uh...way (I've got to find a better term; then again, I haven't had my coffee yet) of making a droll comment on hipsters' callous (there's *that* word again) appropriation of the kitsch of the past (a major part of Morrison's characterization of Mr. Nobody in his DP run; need I mention that gold classic splash page of Mr. Nobody in a room absolutely cluttered with kitsch objects?)
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