Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities DC Comics Rebirth

Ok, I'm madly in love with Detective Comics and Batman. In ways that I haven't been for YEARS. In ways that I might go uber-fanboy to the creators at SDCC. The characters are developing nicely and the action is (mostly) on point.

Nightwing is still great. The quality on the writing has been good (IMO) from Grayson to now.

Green Lanterns has been a surprise. Jessica and Simon are each on a journey and I'm enjoying going with them.

I've had to reread Wonder Woman a lot because of the way the story arcs are alternating. I keep on forgetting what happened previously. Kind of annoying but overall this has been a solidly good book.

Midnighter and Apollo is not as fun as the most recent Midnighter run, but I'm still enjoying it.

Birds of Prey has been up and down (in my opinion) but there's definitely an interesting interaction between the three. It's worth sticking with.

Cyborg is a B/B+ for me. Enjoyable but not particularly compelling. Super-Man and Superwoman are the same for me.

Titans, Teen Titans, Justice League have all kind of been meh. These might be on the chopping block.

Young Animal is "too cool" for me. I picked up the first couple issues of each, but it's hard to follow. So I think that I'm going vegetarian.

I picked up the Green Arrow trade based on Cobie's recommendation. It. Is. Awesome. Ollie's voice comes through so clearly and it's exactly what I want out of it. Plus it's so pretty. The one flaw - Black Canary smacking him then kissing him. She's one of the top martial artists in DC so I think that DC should retire this trope. It just looks like abuse.

Alternating? Do you mean that the issues illustrated by Nicola Scott and (iirc) Liam Sharpe are telling separate stories? If that's so, I'm curious as to what the "A" arc is about and what the "B" arc is about.

The A arc by Liam Sharp is about Diana trying to discern what's real and what's a lie she's been tricked into believing over the last few years, particularly concerning her home and the Gods.

The B arc by Nicola Scott is a Year One story working to reestablish her origin and involves Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Barbara Ann Minerva, and Ares.

Wow, glad I could get you to try it and it paid off! One of the things I really like about GA is it feels like the series is getting better and better, especially with the second 2-3 arcs. This includes the Ollie / Dinah relationship, which has really been just great—other than that one scene misstep, all the subsequent scenes have been spot-on.



Totally agree. I had very low expectations for this series and I’ve been pleasantly surprised throughout. If the goal was to convert readers who didn’t know or care about Simon and Jessica into finding them compelling characters and wanting to root for them, then it is mission accomplished. In fact, I find their series better than the Hal & GLC series which has all the characters I already know and love.



Sarky summed it up pretty well. Though there are clearly connections between the two stories tonally and thematically, and both are telling two parts of the larger story, they could almost be read as entirely separate arcs. It works for me because Sharpe and Scott’s artwork has been nothing short of stunning, which seems to benefit from this schedule.

Both are fantastic too, by the way. I’m partial to the Year One story because I love Scott’s art so much, but I can’t say anything bad about the equally great Sharp storyline. Even the "current time" story's use of Rucka's pet favorites, Sasha Bordeaux and Veronica Cale, has been really good so far.

Justice League/Suicide Squad crossover?

I like that it's weekly.

This could be a little spoiler-y. Apologies in advance.


The main series is a little "by the numbers" and the main villains (not the Squad) seem wildly undercharacterized and underutilized. Rustam's turn to murderous psycho seems out of place (since he's established as a soldier following orders who disagreed with Waller in Suicide Squad). The others were taken out too easily IMO.

The Wonder Woman/Harley moments are immensely satisfying.

The Justice League and Suicide Squad books support the crossover well. They each shine a light on characters emerging in the main series.

The JLA Rebirth issues have both been good so far. The origin story of Ryan Choi had some great touches, tightly written and drawn. The Vixen story had some throwaway moments (I'm still not sure why they want Mari to be some social media entrepreneur model brand - it's a little too America's Next Top Model for me), but the overall story was good. I liked seeing her moments with her dad.

While I appreciate a good twist, the build-up of the villains only to have them dismissed rather quickly in favour of the developments at the end of issue #4 was a little clunky for me.

I'll reserve judgement on how this plays out, but we've seen similar before (and recently in Batman, I believe).

^keeping that going (so Spoilers may or may not follow)...

I'm enjoying the crossover quite a bit! Honestly, I didn't expect much and this has certainly exceeded my expectations. It is greatly helped by the art, which has been really good, particularly the first issue drawn by Jason Fabook. It has a very high-octane, action heavy blockbuster feel--and honestly in a series with VERSUS in the title, it should--and in that sense its actually a real lot of fun.

I also like that its weekly, which enhances the action heaviness. If it was monthly, I could see myself growing bored.

There's been some really nice interactions thus far as Andy says. The aforementioned WW / HQ is great, and I also really liked the Flash / Captain Boomerang stuff and especially the Superman / Killer Frost sequence in #3, which was the best so far IMO.

In fact, Killer Frost has been done really well in a way that is satisfying to the parts of me that love her from the old Firestorm series and the parts of me that love Caitlin Snow in the Flash TV show.

I have not read #4 yet, so I can't say much about the villains so far, but I do love the build-up of them all, particularly Max Lord. It's a really interesting group of villains with each character being one I'm really interested in seeing about going forward.

Meanwhile, I absolutely loved the Atom #1, and its probably the best Ryan Choi story done so far (not there have been a ton). I love the Ryan / Ray relationship and feel it does both characters justice. By making their mentor / apprentice relationship the center of the issue, I was hooked.

I haven't read Vixen yet but if its by Steve Orlando, who did the Atom story, I have high hopes.

The JLA Max story was pretty good. DC's litany of secret agencies can be a bit much sometimes but this was handled well by focusing it mostly on Max and Amanda.

All in all, while isn't the event I would go running around raving about to get people to buy comics, it's certainly been one that I've liked so far, and am very entertained by. Plus that Atom special was fantastic.

If you liked Boomerang/Flash interaction to this point, you'll really like the next issue, as they get a lot of screen time together.

Is this a good example of the artwork currently on the Flash? If so, I think it looks alright. If the story is first rate, as you imply, I may put this in next week's trade order (headlined by the John Byrne/Alpha Flight Omnibus, btw), along with the first Batman Rebirth trade.



I'm curious as to why it has it's detractors. Can you give me an idea of why you and your dad enjoy it so much and why some people don't?



I'm hearing lots of good things about this! Sounds like Priest is BACK!

JL vs. Suicide Squad wraps up with different storylines teased through the resolution. Killer Frost gets redeemed, bringing her more in line with her TV counterpart and Batman takes her and Lobo to start his own "proactive" JLA (How many times has this been tried?)

I found the wrap-up a little too easy, and wasn't sold on Batman's sudden approval of the Squad. I also felt the consequences of the whole thing were swept under the rug a little (This is a complaint about most comic events of the last decade or more - in trying to up the stakes, writers up the civilian body count, to the point where mass destruction becomes pedestrian and meaningless).

Yup, that’s the art, and if it doesn’t bother you at all, then I think you’ll really like the story. It really is a bit of a modern twist on the type of classic Flash type story you’d see in the original Barry Allen run (whether Silver, Bronze or early 80’s).



Because THEY SUCK! Just kidding, I love all Legion Worlders

I really am not sure why its not connecting with some people because there are just SO many reasons why I like the series so much. And I know them all off-hand because I’ve actually talked about with my Dad again and again. It includes: the Aquaman / Mera relationship is nothing short of fantastic and does them both justice really well while also being romantic and engaging; the supporting cast is huge and incredibly well done; the political overtones are there but constantly balanced by character and action so as not to be too overbearing; the artwork and coloring is fantastic; the relationship with Superman and the JLA is both full of tension and respect; the villains being used are done really well including the awesome Black Manta. I could go on, but overall its just a really high quality series IMO.

I’ll comment on Deathstroke in that thread, which I just noticed.

Well, I did order the Flash Rebirth TPB, along with the Batman and Detective Rebirths, as part of my IST order that is headlined by the Alpha Flight by John Byrne Omnibus. I also got a good bargain on the Aquaman trade on eBay for a secondhand copy. Looking forward to reading them all eventually!

Kamandi Challenge was a lot of fun and I think it will be a good series. Unlike the messier (but still fun) "DC Challenge" of old, these stories will be limited to Kamandi's world and characters with some fun cliffhangers. The first issue sets up a mystery with the 1st and 2nd teams doing a new but pretty faithful rehash of Kamandi's origin, then jumping right into the action in the Tiger Kingdom. Looking forward to the rest.

I finally, just a couple of days ago, read the Rebirth one-shot that kicked everything off. While you can argue that it was very much the primer it was meant to be for what was to come in the Rebirth launch, I'll admit I cried real tears reading the scenes with Wally and Barry. Even though I knew it was coming, having had most of the comic spoiled for me when it first came out, the reunion was really beautiful and felt true to their history. That moment when Wally is dissipating but is still so thankful for everything he had--and then Barry remembers him and saves him.....

Beautiful stuff, Geoff Johns! I hope when you return, there is much more of this kind of thing and much less dismemberment and horror!

Seems like eons since a DC book made me feel like that.... I haven't cried like that since Titanic. <wipes tears with a stack of Benjamins>

If John returns to Flash, I hope we get some Rogues comics too. He really knows how to write bad guys.

Yeah, it was an amazing way to start the new era, and I was delighted to know Geoff still had it in him. I'd like to think this current direction of heart & substance over shock comes from Geoff on down, and he has learned some lessons. If that's the case, I look forward to his eventual return.

The issue itself surprised me and turned me towards the path of buying in wholeheartedly to Rebirth. The series themselves got me there.

Man, that scene.

Um...sorry to be the voice of dissention yet again, but by this point I'm pretty much over any enthusiasm and optimism I'd had earlier for the Rebirth.

Now, I have not read the Rebirth Special, so all I can say is, and please don't anyone take what follows as an attack on their personal tastes or anything like that, but I find myself incapable of giving Johns the benefit of the doubt and reading it, or anything he might write in the months to come. Not reluctant, but actually *incapable.*

My favorite DC eras where when they were a brighter, shinier, classier, more cheerful alternative to Marvel and/or when they were a more progressive and innovative force in superhero comics than Marvel. And while I think almost anything is preferable to the way DC was cluelessly and cynically trying to imitate Quesada/Jemas era Marvel between 2003 and 2015, the Rebirth is just not doing it for me. And I believe it's because I find Johns's ideas of what constitutes good DC superhero comics to be a resignation to cranking out middle-of-the-road mediocrity. Inoffensive it may be, but I also find it innocuous to the point of terminal blandness.

I also think that if Johns was as good a writer as, say, Chuck Dixon, or Roy Thomas, or James Hudnall, whose ways of looking at the world (I refuse to use the "P" word) are different in many ways to mine, then I could tolerate the paternalistic, populist, condescending, syrupy-sentimental attitudes that too often work their way into his stories, whether that's his intention or not. But I don't think he is a good writer -- I do think he had the potential to be at one time, but the psychic scars of his worst stories just run too deep within me to ever fully heal and give him a second chance.

I'll still buy the first two trades of Phil & Emanuela's "Superwoman," just as I had said I would a while ago, but that's because it's two of my favorite creators, not out of any deep-rooted loyalty or attachment to DC (and as for Marvel, they lost me way back in 1995, so there's no one-versus-the-other thing going on here.)

I'm not trying to start arguments, or to put down any of my fellow Legion Worlders, and I'm well-past the point of having an actual vendetta toward Johns. I simply don't think he's that talented, and I don't think he's the right creator/executive editor to be at the wheel of the DCU.

Well, Johns lost me years ago, and his name had entered my list of writers to avoid. So I'm certainly not the poster to defend him.

But man, I did enjoy Rebirth #1. As a single issue, it worked for me. I hope whenever he does come back to comics full time that he does some evaluating and comes back a different person than he was when he stopped. We'll see.

I'm loving the whole Rebirth relaunch, as is well documented. Hopefully some of the series eventually are given a chance and impresss you Fanfie. A lot won't be your cup of tea but there may be some ones that do! Still, can't fault you for being pessimistic...I was on the verge of quitting comics a year ago myself.

Yeah, I didn't exactly proclaim, "Geoff Johns is BACK!!!", in my above post either. And though I'm starting to stockpile Rebirth trades, I've yet to read any of them yet. But I feel fairly confident I'll like them based on recommendations like Cobie's.

Basically, I thought Rebirth #1 was great, particularly because of the scene with Barry and Wally and what it represented. This doesn't mean Geoff can do no wrong in my eyes from this point forward, just that he did do right in this one instance, and I give him props for it.

I'll start reading Rebirth trades fairly soon and will definitely share my thoughts on them. The first read will likely be the Green Arrow one.

Fair enough, guys.

After all, like the Legion-Worlder-at-large Kid Chaos once said, "Think how boring it would be if we all agreed on everything."

And, in the interim between my previous post in this one, I remembered that I will be giving at least the first half-dozen or so issues of Batwoman a chance. I mean, it's drawn by Steve Epting, one of a very select few artists who guarantees I will buy at least one or two issues!

And speaking of Steve, I'm off to post in the Thor thread now. Hint, hint...

I think Geoff Johns is a writer who had a good niche to mine who was elevated beyond his skill set and nobody (in power) told him otherwise. That he's a nice guy probably means none of his friends/colleagues would too. He represents a mediocrity in fandom that got to write their childhood heroes, then everyone else's.

Agh.

That being said, I don't think Fanfic's criticism of the bland sweet stuff in Rebirth is too far off. There's a whole part of the line that, after this week, I really don't know if I can keep buying because of cost and value. Unfortunately, Cyborg, New Super-Man and Titans are on my drop list (Teen Titans and Aquaman didn't make it past the first couple issues). I've looked at the issues and I find them either boring or the drawing is not my style or some combination of the two.

When the Rebirth stuff is good, it's fantastic - Deathstroke, Detective and Nightwing are all shining bright for me and I really loved the Green Arrow TPB.

The thing to remember about Geoff Johns is always the attached letter. The second he was in a position to do so, he ignored everyone else's work and made it "true".

I am reminded in just one page that DC Rebirth's backbone isn't the old DCU, it's the New 52. And everything that comes from Rebirth is built with the New 52 as a foundation despite the illusion that the New 52 is gone.

http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/1222231-exclusive-preview-green-arrow-18

I don't think they've ever claimed otherwise. Everything is still New52 (other than Superman and Lois), but they've made a conscious effort to shift tonally and editorially in this new direction.

^ I think that's an important point. Because even before the New52 for many years, the "old DCU" felt like a really horrible, shitty place to be. Those Dan Didio years, especially the last few before the New52, were just terrible, and the tone of the entire company was disheartening. When the company relaunched as the New52, the continuity might have changed, but the tone and editorial approach remained the same. That is, for the most part, terrible.

With Rebirth, we have the opposite of the New52: the continuity might be the same but there is a strong tonal and editorial shift that makes the series fun and interesting again.

For me, while the continuity might be different than I'd like, I have come to accept that I just don't plain care anymore. Much more important (to me) is that we have quality series that I actually enjoy reading.

For years online I always read about how in the post-Crisis DCU there were a lot of readers that were just really bummed out at the prospect of all those old pre-Crisis stories being wiped from continuity, or slaving over how to figure out which ones still fit and which ones didn't. And while this hurt them, they eventually came to accept the Post-Crisis DCU as its own entity they could live with. I wonder if we're going to get to the same thing.

As I said, I no longer care. As far as I'm concerned, I can't bother to think about Superman's continuity (and all his supporting characters) prior to Superman Rebirth #1. I know I love the current series and if I start considering the continuity prior to Rebirth #1, it detracts from my enjoyment. Maybe one day that won't be the case, but I don't it be anytime soon.