Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Supergirl and the Legion of Super-heroes #34 (spoilers)

Thanks, Matthew E.

I guess my 14-page conspiracy-hypothesizing manifesto on the 50-year history of the Legion is not the way to go after all.

I'll stop cutting and gluing words from the newspaper and put away the crayons.

You mean DC doesn't even have a message board or email address available to readers anymore? How lame is that?

They might; I'm not sure.

But an actual paper letter carries more weight.

I'm not Kolins' biggest fan. I dropped the Flash when he got on it. The only thing I like is his non superhero stuff. His Thor mini basically.

I hope they don't let him anywhere near the Legion. I know Geoff is his bud...and Geoff is tied to the Legion currently. eeek. Maybe All Star Superman but please no version of the Legion.

And I will go ahead and ask Dennis.

They bought your cover and then changed their mind? I am guessing the old school Wildfire suit may have tilted them that way. Did you get any explanation? Thanks.

It had to have been a last minute decision the original cover is pictured on the DC Nation page

DC used to have an "ask the editors" link at their website but it's not there anymore. A short letter is the only way to go.

A general question. In the flashback, Drake recalls that Saturn Girl's mind blasts had no effect on the faminebot. Is her ability to mentally blast robots from the cartoon exclusively, or does it have a basis in the comic book? In Adventure #247, SG took mental command of a robot but I don't remember an ability to do machines physical injury, even in the Silver Age.

I'm not complaining about it, only wondering if any cartoon influence is coming into the comic book.

This was a pretty good issue. I agree it felt a little short, but the action was nice. I liked Shady with her 'pratically royalty' comment, nice touch to show that she is the champion on her homeworld and not just some other random underager with powers.

Did not like Atom Lass, she seems more of a caricature of a 'tough girl' than an actual character. Unfortunately when they do try and do personality overhauls (this ain't your dad's atom lass!) they tend to make the character very one dimensional and with all the lines she had in this issue both Brin and Shady came across as more interesting. (oh, and ditch the guns).

Also, Drake being an assassin doesn't work for me, I'm interested in seeing where we go from here. Drake wanting the guards to surrender show that he might not really be assassin material, which would be nice.

I did like the sit-rep from the guy Brin captures, because a) it fills us in b) it shows that the stupid underagers v. adults might be going by the wayside as more important issues arise

Also, did anyone get the impression that time/years are different from planet to planet. It seems like at least two years had passed on Llalor and I would be suprised if that much time has passed since issue one on Earth (and if it had what a wasted two years). I dunno, it just struck me that the time count was off (and if it has been two years since issue one, the Legion was only around for one year before this series started and they were already falling apart).

So here's hoping that the second part will show that Drake isn't a killer, just a ball of energy with a chip on his shoulder.

I can see why they changed the cover up. Coming off the Lightning Saga story in JLA/JSA you would want well indenitfied characters on the covers to maybe entice someone to pick up Legion after reading the story. Honestly with Wildfire and Timber Wolf being the big draws for the issue the cover really did not show that. Unless you are a die hard like most of us you would have had no idea that it was those two on the other cover. TW looked more like a zombie than TW and Wildfire looked like just some guy in the background flying. On the new cover there is no mistaking who they are.

I know I am biased since i really am not a fan of recent covers or art, but that still would seem to be a reason why the editors might have decided on the alst minute change.

As an employee of the United States Postal Service, I thank you.

Dennis Calero, I found Brainiac 5's picture on the first page interesting. His picture looked translucent and a negative of Cosmic Boy's picture from the same page though reversed was superimposed across the the front of Brainy's face. What is the signifigance of picturing Brainiac 5 in that manner? Is this some statement on the nature of the reality of these stories relative to the long established LSH continuity (has Brainy been imagining the past events, the Dominator War, the Search for Cosmic Boy, the whole Lemnos affair, perhaps more) or was that just a printing error?

And to Timber Wolf: Worst 'Got Milk?' ad, ever.

Another enjoyable issue from the "fill-in crew".

Re: the cover change.

Oh no you think Shooter is already calling the shots?!?! JK JK.

I guess I'm in the minority here. I actually prefer the new cover, though I don't care for Timber Wolf's super-feralized appearance. That was inspired by the ending, though, and the first thing I thought when I saw that last page was, "Oh, great, Wolverine has joined the team" but with tusks instead of claws. (I know -- lots of history there.) I find the new cover much more dynamic.

I had a hard time following who was beating up whom. Assuming the Lallorian's aren't cut off from all communication in the galaxy, why would they think the Legion, who are a branch of the U.P. now, would come to assassinate the president? Even with the events prior, I read that page over a few times and just gave up.

The "body count" thing also bothered me. It did seem like Vi, especially, was just casually killing soldiers. Besides the two shooting each other, there's another with his head exploding in the top panel of page 3.

And I agree with Stephbarton that the time issue is confusing. And I thought it was even more confusing when Wildfire said his part with the Legion had occurred only three years earlier. I know three years in the Legion's real time hasn't passed in 35 issues, but it seems like Brainy and Shady have been with the group longer than that.

And I'm sorry, Dennis, but I just don't care for the art. I find it way too dark and murky, and the characters frequently too distorted. The inks are far too heavy in many places. And it's not helped by the muddy coloring -- all the things I hated about Copiel's art. I've seen some con sketches and liked those, but the interiors just aren't working for me.

This art style seems very specific to having to be drawn in places that are dark. Even the Wildfire flashback was drawn at dusk. What happens if a scene needs to take place in sunlight?

And what was with the picture of Shady on the bottom of page 7? Seeing where her navel is, that laced-up part of her costume is way too far into obscene territory.

What did I like? I liked seeing Wildfire again. Even if he is the "villain" this issue, it was an intersting twist on the old standby "the Legion done me wrong" origin. Except for a few clunky places in the Winath issues, I like that this story seems to be moving better than Waid's often did. And I like these three-character spotlights to mix up the characters give some under-used characters screentime, even if I don't always like what they do with it.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess that's why the covers were switched out as well.

I knew this was going to be the most contraversial issue. E.R.G is well beloved, and it was a risky proposition for a "clean up crew" to bring him back and introduce these changes.

"Seeing where her navel is, that laced-up part of her costume is way too far into obscene territory. If I were a betting man, I'd guess that's why the covers were switched out as well. "

The real answer is much simpler, but I can't
answer this question...but it wasn't that.

"And I'm sorry, Dennis, but I just don't care for the art. I find it way too dark and murky, and the characters frequently too distorted. The inks are far too heavy in many places. And it's not helped by the muddy coloring -- all the things I hated about Copiel's art. I've seen some con sketches and liked those, but the interiors just aren't working for me."

That's ok, but strictly speaking speaking, no one is distorted. The con sketches are more distorted in that they're more cartoony in general, by far. So it would seem it's not distortion, they're just not distorted the way you like. Which is fine.

"This art style seems very specific to having to be drawn in places that are dark. Even the Wildfire flashback was drawn at dusk. What happens if a scene needs to take place in sunlight?
"

I would draw it as if it were in sunlight and Nate would color it so. Why this would be a concern, I'm not really sure. That you should be mad about art that you don't like is one thing, but to be upset about theoretical art doesn't seem to make sense.

The book did print dark overall and we're looking into it.

"And to Timber Wolf: Worst 'Got Milk?' ad, ever."

The worst..or the best?

As far as the "too dark" comments, which make up about 85 percent of the negative opinion on the art (and some onthe writing), all I can do is reiterate that obviously I have my own point of view ont hat, and its not that my work is dark but that most comics are basically light cartoons and that's not what I do.

(mind you, I'm not against cartoons)

I approached LSH as a science fiction movie for adults. And I think its fair to say Tony is writing it that way. And where have we been in three issues? An underground cult dwelling, and a war torn planet.

And I accept that that may not be the "ultimate" (no pun intended) approach. But again, it's 5 issues and in the issues so far, I would defend our choices as appropriate for THESE stories.

My thought, too, but something that could likely have been altered more easily than creating a whole new cover with another artist.

I was going to ask this too. The same image is also shown upside down on top of Violet's costume.

And I thought her name had finally become Shrinking Violet. I don't care for "Atom Girl" and I too don't like her badass caricaturization. I do like the side arms and have long called for such for the less powerful Legionnaires. It makes no sense to send the likes of Violet, Triplicate Girl, and Invisible Kid into battle barehanded against armed-to-the-teeth bad guys.

I don't care for Wildfire as a hired assassin. This is Legionnaire material? Since when? This ain't the X-men.

With all due respect to Dave Cockrum who originally created Brin's feral look, I was hoping we'd seen the end of Timber Wolfman. It's been done to death and I liked Kitson's new look for him. Quite refreshing after all his werewolf incarnations, especially that awful 3boot one. And Brainy seemingly forcing him into battle with Wildfire because he knew it would transform him is just SO lame. Reminds me of when Garth "knew" Jan would merge with the Omniphagos. WTF?

My concerns with the dark art is that I don't really get a full picture. It seems like I'm losing a lot of the line work. Whether that is shading, inking, colouring, printing I don't know- it doesn't provide a complete picture.

I like the focus on individual members, stories less eipc, and a variety of Legionairres. I'm enjoying the story you guys are crafting, and I agree with the sci-fi comment. The cartoon analogy is fair, and your work certainly has a feel to it that isn't cartoony.

"Whether that is shading, inking, colouring, printing I don't know- it doesn't provide a complete picture.
"

Well that's the printing.

Let me state up front that I am enjoying the faster pacing of the story as compared to the Waid run. And I'm very much enjoying the the small team focus of the past few issues, allowing for more in depth characterization of the spotlighted Legionnaires.

However, like others here have stated, I really dislike the feralization of Brin. He isn't part lupine and never should have been. He chose to call himself Lone Wolf because he was a loner not because he was a wolf. Likewise, he changed his codename to Timber Wolf when he joined the Legion to signal that he was a loner no longer. Leave the claws, fangs, drool, and wolf ears to that "X" Legionnaire wannabe. Brin doesn't need them, he always did just fine with his super agility and relexes and the fighting skill he developed via his close friendship with Val.

To some extent, I can see Drake as a bitter former member. It is consistent with the bitterness of his early portrayals but I can not see him as a hired killer. Something else else will have to happen that keeps him from killing and allows him to turn on his "brother" Randall and redeem himself.

Re. the feralization of Brin -- I was under the impression someone else is calling the shots, and the direction Tony and Dennis are taking express the wants and needs of the next creative team.

"I guess the first characters I focus on are Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Princess Projectra and Timber Wolf" (Jim Shooter@Newsarama)

Brin's path appears to have been decided by higher powers and, for better or worse, richer or poorer, there's no avoiding it for long. All you have to do is look at Lightning Saga TW and Toon TW. Human Brin is a brown-haired guy with forgettable powers. Lupine Brin is a star.

"Re. the feralization of Brin -- I was under the impression someone else is calling the shots, and the direction Tony and Dennis are taking express the wants and needs of the next creative team."

To a great extent this is true. My understanding is that the editor and Tony were given a list of requests (I say requests, because DC asked Jim to provide them, he didn't insist) to set up Jim's run.

And by the way, I've seen pages from issue 37 and they look amazing! I for one will bestaying on and reading the next great era of Legion.

It's hard to avoid the "see-say" nature of codenames (check out Red Bee in "Unlce Sam #1" for a more ridiculous example) but I like my timberwolf just a tad feral - maybe it's the Cockrum fan in me, but it makes him stand out. I know it's unavoidable that other creatives will take him to extremes of wolfdom, but the preview images we've seen from the next team are hopefully as wolfen as he'll get.

I dug Dennis' work on X-factor and I dig it on Legion. After looking at some of the legion art work of the past for research, Dennis' take is clearly one of the more unique version.

If he had an empty gallon in his hand you could jumpstart the whole ad campaign again.

So I'll take it that the images of Cosmic Boy that appeared on Brainy and Vi (as pointed out by jimgallagher) on the first page were printing errors, too. Thats gotta be irritating to you, especially considering some of the complaints you're recieving here. To be honest, when I saw the first page I immediately thought that I was not going to like the art. But against my better judgement, I ended up really liking the art. I think your point that ya'll are making this book for adults is well taken.
Another question: the President of Lallor reminded nme of the Baldwin brother (Adam?) who was in the cast of "Firefly", was this intentional?

I tend to agree with the initial reaction's to Violet's depiction in this issue. Given how she has been portrayed in the past (with the exception of the TMK run, which this reminded me of the most) it was just very jarring, but not necessarily unenjoyable.

Psychologically speaking, she is a fascinating character. I would think that she is drastically overcompensating for something. The only problem is that given a team this large, I doubt we will get the character examination that this deserves.