Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The All-Doom Patrol thread

That scene was hilarious and one of those things that can only be done when the audience understands the characters because it was not explicit. George understanding that he couldn't express his huge relief of being let off the hook,(dancing for joy would have been innapropriate) and the crew knowing George but understanding cultural mores, couldn't express happiness for him, and they didn't really feel sad for her (there's that detachment) so it evened out into an almost neutral reaction.

And yeah, there are a few people that I wouldn't feel so bad about even if they blew up in front of me...

Interesting point about use of Cliff's jacket. I'll have to keep an eye out for such themes...

Drake, I'd never thought before about how the Seinfeld scene worked because we were already familiar with the characters. When viewed from that perspective, it certainly puts a different, slightly ominous spin on Casey (and even more so on Terry, who, like I said before, had already failed to make a completely positive first impression on me.) But there was just something about the roommate character that really pushed my buttons and immediately made me wish that kind of horrible fate on him. Or, as you so succinctly put it:



LOL Way definitely zeroed in on a universal emotion there.



Thanks. I certainly hope that the jacket bit is a sign that Way intends to bring back Mr. Nobody, I think he was one of Morrison's best creations (I read in Mr. Nobody's Wikipedia entry that he came back during the 2009-2011 DP run, but now he was a corporate sellout or something. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the character, IMO...)

Ok. I bought it. I read it. I got the freebie about the Young Animal line.

DP is cool. A little TOO cool for me. I think that's the whole "Morrison homage" that you've already talked about.

I DO like Casey and I like the steady stream of weird. I don't know where it's going, but it's entertaining enough for me to eat a falafel with it.

The comic shop Young Animal freebie is cool though. I'm WAY more excited about the line than I was.

My sentiments exactly, only my comestible of choice to go with Way's DP would have to be a mixed berry fruit cup.

Doom Patrol 1

Sure, the Doom Patrol was an odd group from the ‘60s but they were like a dysfunctional Fantastic Four meets the X-Men in their bickering over Jean days. A lot of the interest for me was in their villains, once you got over the DP’s own visuals. It wasn’t as weird and kooky as some folk’s memories would have you think.

For all the art movement name dropping, philosophical fun of Morrison’s Doom Patrol there was a clear destination to Caulder’s final actions and Dorothy Spinner’s demons.

You could tell he had mined the books and then built a better breed of monster from their bones. Yes, they seemed experimental, but they progressed pretty firmly from the established genre, as did much of DC’s Mature logo output. There was structure underpinning the experimentation. So, not as randomly weird as some folks would have you believe.

This version of the Doom Patrol gives us a bit of structure, but with a cut and paste approach.

It’s like a shallow version of a Morrison (who cadged so often he’s frequently sued by magpies) book when it’s at its worst, flutters with being too self-aware, but holds the flight together with an energetic, personable central character and her grounded, but experienced in dealing with the personal weirdness of others, colleague.

She loses points for not having a decent reaction to having her roommate blown up. The book does hint at some weird things in her life, such as prom night. That might get you past the explosion in the waste basket, but not so much someone being murdered in front of you by a person who then moves in.

For readers not familiar with the Patrol, the book might come across somewhere along a spectrum of kooky enough to continue, or seemingly too random for an establishing issue.

But, just like previous supposedly weird versions, I’m not sure there’s much randomness in this one either. The Niles Caulder page is fun for older readers, as well as odd for newer ones. That smile is the highlight of the issue. But compare the fruit of his labours to the balloon of the Myrmidon (from Invisibles) looking robot to what’s in the bin around the gyro.

Compare the name of Casey’s new roommate to who hired her and the name of one of his team.

Danny is a presence through the book, and is a clear plot hook to a number of parties. The aliens look like a very tired cross between the corporates in the Invisibles and the start of the Hellblazer run, and they are the clunkiest part of the story.

We get some Crazy Jane in there too for good measure, and there may be a lead in for Flex Mentallo there too. I though Cliff would stand up better to a hit from a truck. He’s shrugged off worse with some dents.

In summary, it’s nowhere near as strange or weird as the ads would have you believe. As long as it doesn’t believe in its own hype, it might be OK. The art is a definite plus, and I get some Allred vibes from some of it, and there’s someone else I really can’t place right now…

So instead lets’ compare it to other Doom Patrol First Appearances! Is this #1 better than…

My Greatest Adventure #80 – No. MGA had super gloomy origins, glimmers of hope and bickering, General Immortus and eye stalk tanks.
Showcase – Yes. It just didn’t quite click for some reason.
Doom Patrol – v2 #1 (Kupperberg)– Yes (avoids a lot of the old comic book baggage and plotting) and No (worse villains, less pace & coherence and doesn’t have Steve Lightle drawing it.). Overall Yes
Doom Patrol v2 #19 – (Morrison) No, this one is a little shadow of it in some ways.
Doom Patrol v2 #64 (Pollack)– Yes (I take back any Morrison bandwagon references on this #1 when compared to that first attempt.)
Doom Patrol v3 #1 (Arcudi)– Yes (although familiarity helps this new version)
Doom Patrol v4 #1 (Byrne) – Yes (not too much familiarity helps this new version  )
Doom Patrol v5 (Giffen) – A Byrne like Yes to begin with, but veering towards a No as the actual team’s psychological issues were shown. Clark art is excellent. Overall Yes.

So, it stacks up fairly well, although a couple of the above had strengths in certain areas that are a lot higher than areas in this one.

I knew as soon as I finished reading that scene, that it was going to be the most controversial aspect of this issue.

Objectively, I am inclined to agree with you, Thoth, on the principle of simple human decency. But subjectively, there's that little she-devil on my shoulder whispering over and over again in my ear, "That roommate guy was a worthless waste of flesh, and a piece-of-shit jerk-off who was deliberately trying to bring Casey down. He deserved it, hell, he deserved even worse!"

To quote Joni Mitchell, I don't know where I stand.

I do agree with what you say in both of the quotes below:





And, last but not least, I feel I have to stand up for Rachel Pollack. I'm not going to deny that her run never quite jelled, despite some very promising elements (tellingly, the Pollack addition which came closest to fully blossoming, Kate "Coagula" Godwin, the transwoman with vaguely Firestorm-esque powers, was both the only one cut from whole cloth and the only one drawn from Pollack's own life experience, as Pollack is herself transgendered.) But, unless I'm inferring incorrectly from your post, it sounds like you're accusing her of being nothing more than a Morrison copyist. There is a *grain* of truth there, but IMHO, it's too simplistic a dismissal and it sells short the aforementioned handful of things that Pollack got right. Then, too, I think it's worth remembering that Pollack's DP run was her very first comic book gig, and while I can certainly understand why she jumped at the offer, there's also no denying that she wasn't yet seasoned enough in writing for comics. A similar case could be made for Nancy A. Collins, a well-established horror author at the time she took over "Swamp Thing" in the early 90s, but one who had never before written a comic book script. Like Pollack's DP run, Collins' ST run has many derivative aspects and it never quite comes together in a wholly satisfying way, but it does have some redeeming qualities and I don't think it deserves the degree of criticism it gets.

I'm not sure that anyone deserves to be blown apart really. He's stuck with an incoherent room mate who isn't meeting her rent commitment and who has a cat he's not warming to.

The scene has points for the humorous pay off, but not much else. I now expect Terry None to explode any threats the team face, and some of their team mates for laughs.

I was thinking you might put forward some support for the Pollack run to balance that out. I'm sure I've read you mention it in encouraging terms before. Particularly Coagula, who I don't think I was around long enough to read.

I had a *really* quick peek at some of Pollack's first issue as I was typing a few words above to refresh my memory. It's not so much derivative of the Morrison run, as an example of a book that strayed wildly into the areas that people thought Morrison's book was cool for, while forgetting the solid foundations that it was built on.

As a result you get a team comprised of characters who I'd have expected Morrison to use as throw-aways in a single story. The Bandage couple and the Inner Child joining were around where I left. As you said, it was her first comic book gig, and, for me, it really showed. I'm aware of some criticism on the Collins Swamp Thing run, but I'm not sure if I read any more than an issue of it, at best. So I can't really comment there.

Before I forget, how did Cliff burst out of the particular gyro that our central characters were holding? Is there a deeper connection, or is it like the Atom who can appear from a microverse to wherever it's convenient for the plot?

Again, I agree with you in theory, but in practice, there was something about that guy that really got under my skin and touched a nerve, making it very difficult for me to be objective and sensible. And I don't doubt for a pico-second that it was a deliberate, calculated move on Way's part. Whether that's good or bad, I'm honestly not sure any longer.




Fair enough.

And for the record, Coagula made her debut in DP issue 70, the one which immediately followed the end of Pollack's first arc (DP 64-69, IIRC.) I would imagine you're not the only one who had had enough by the end of that arc, and decided not to stick around any longer.

In Doom Patrol #90, the letter column featured a certain Dave Cockrum, who was responding to a request for opinions on new uniforms.







I wonder what his designs looked like?

Finally read Doom Patrol #1, and I enjoyed it quite a bit! While certainly heavily influenced by Morrison, I think Way is still distant enough to be something different, though still inspired.

I absolutely loved the art.

I loved all the new characters, and think Casey and Terry None could end up being great additions. While I want more Cliff, I'm willing to wait, and admit I laughed out loud when the truck hit him.

For the roommate who exploded--feh! Eff that dude! But seriously, wasn't it kind of hinted that he might have been working for the bad guys? Or did I totally read into that on my own?

I can't say its my favorite new series, but its one I definitely felt satisifed reading and want to stick with to see how it goes.

Glad you chimed in, Cobie. Thanks.

Even gladder we agree on the roommate combusting. I'll re-read the issue soon to see if I catch the hint the he was a pawn of the villains.

I finally read it as well. Looks promising. Casey grounds it, Danny supplies the weirdness. Cliff supplies the mystery, what's he up to? Disposable roommate: I didn't suspect he might be on the bad side, interesting possibility.

Glad you enjoyed it, FC. And yes, Casey is invaluable to the artistic success of this new DP.

Second issue was equal parts grounded and equal parts weird. Larry Trainor is back and once again separated from the Negative being. He's playing crazy to get locked up (but may actually be crazy), when the "dispatch voice" in the ambulance sends Casey to retrieve him. Before she gets the call, Casey wakes to find her new roomie has re-assembled Cliff overnight. As Casey runs off to the call, someone re-attaches Cliff's brain, and he awakes to find some crystal-headed foot soldiers trying to interrogate him. He's fights his way free making it down to street level where he meets Casey with parry in tow (losing Casey's cat in the process). Their reunion is short-lived as Casey gets called into the real dispatch, and is suspended for her questionable actions of late. Before she can head home the dispatch voice lures her back into the ambulance, revealing itself to be Danny and transporting her to "Dannyland", where Flex appears to act as her guide.

During all of this, Niles Caulder takes a balloon ride, because he's awesome.

There was a quick preview for "Cave Carson has a Cybernetic Eye" which looks very cool, as Cave turns to Doc Magnus for answers about his eye.

Finally got DP #2. They're doing a good job with the bring the team together story, with enough mystery behind that to add depth. Larry is pretty weird, Cliff isn't; Danny is beyond logic. The Niles Caulder interludes remind me of those repeating New Yorker doodles that they fit in between the text.

The Cave Carson preview had a real Darwyn Cooke feel to it.

The Who's Who entry in the back of Shade #2 for Casey (which I believe is the same one handed out at conventions earlier this year) indicates her hero name will be "Space Case". Her father was also called "Torminox II" at some point in his career. Her powers and weapons are her unnaturally good driving ability, her cheerful demeanor, and her experimental "Psycho-Gas".

I think we all really needed Doom Patrol #3 after what happened Tuesday night.

As Dave said, we know more about Casey from a page in Shade, than we do here. Which I'm fine with. Who's Who is a feature that worth collecting across titles. Collect them all!

On DP #2, I get the feeling that it's the familiarity from the previous volumes, rather than the book in my paws that makes it a little better. Fight starting, lying mumbling on a street Larry isn't that interesting. But because I *know* who he is, I'm a little more invested. He has some interesting negative visuals with the eyes and vomit, which helps too.

The Negative being is definitely something that works on memory as the little alien interlude didn't do much for me.

Having Danny the Ambulance pick up the Doom Patrol is quirkily useful. But I feel for these guys. Just sitting around with broken lives and spirits waiting for the next DP revival to take them all the way back again. Perpetual casualties. Comics.

Casey, Sam & Lotion (who better well join) are fine, but the villains (with heads like an Morrison era Robotman) are really dull. Will Young Animal have anything with teeth? Speaking of which, the tooth message gets a thumbs up as did the Niles Caulder page. Way does seem to have a handle on Danny and Cliff.
3.75

Issue #3 gives us some more back story on Casey and her interesting relationship to Danny. While she's on her voyage of self-discovery in Dannyland, the villains show up and get to work opening him up.

Meanwhile Larry's suffering after he's been separated from the negative being and the alien that also bonded with it. When they arrive to take him back, Cliff goes along as a "witness". Terry None seems to harmlessly float through the scene, but after they've left we're given hints that she's not as benign as we may have thought.

Meanwhile Casey rejects the truths Danny reveals to her, storms out of the ambulance, placing both herself and Danny in immanent danger.

Certainly the most straightforward issue yet, but we're moving along at a good pace. I'm anxious to get past the "Getting the band back together" stage soon though.

I feel like the villains not really making much of an impact might be intentional. This arc reads to me like the main focus is just establishing the mythology and bringing the group together, kind of like with Morrison's first arc and the Scissormen.

And I love that Gerard Way is literally incorporating the DP's history by way of keeping it all canon instead of just littering the run with out-of-continuity references. I wasn't expecting the book to pick up where the Giffen volume ended and I really hope Rachel Pollack's run finally gets acknowledged again after so long.

I've not commented on the last two DP issues, only because I've decided to wait and see how this first ark plays out as a whole.

That said, I agree 100% with what Sarky said in the post immediately preceding this one.

I don't think I've read the stories that have resulted in where we see the team at the start. It's nice that ties to previous volumes haven't been cut.

But with the villains being so dull, you could just as easily have started at the next adventure having had Danny pick them all up. Perhaps they'll come good, but it's a dent in the title so far. The Scissormen story had a lot more going for it plotwise.

As far as I know, DP #4 *still* hasn't been released. Anyone who is "in the know" is free to fill us all in on what exactly is going on.

But either way, I've already decided to shift to "wait-for-the-trade" for DP, the same way I have with Superwoman and Jem.

Finally, a reminder to please continue to post about new DP issues, if and when they're released, in this thread rather than the Young Animal thread.

Well I read Gerard Way had lengthy conversations with Rachel Pollack so I'm assuming her run's finally getting acknowledged.

That's the best news I could possibly read right before going to bed.

Thanks, Sarky.