Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! How Legionnaires have fared through the various eras

Lash

This Carggite is triple loving this thread. How do you manage to keep all of the eras straight? I dub you Memory Lad.

I think Ayla would make a good subject as she had her share of ups and downs and ins and outs throughout Legion history.

SUPERGIRL

Early Adventure/Shooter Eras: Kara is one of the least-seen Legionnaires throughout.

Cockrum/Grell Era: A Supergirl appearance becomes a rare then nonexistent thing.

Levitz Era: Kara return for the Great Darkness Saga. Levitz apparently enjoys her, and she sticks around for a few issues. Unfortunately, a "Crisis" is in the works that will take Kara's life. Sensor Girl is originally created to be the former Supergirl but that idea is nixed by the then-PTB.

TMK Era: Editorial dictates force the removal of all things "SUPER" from the LSH mythos, resulting in the mini-boot "Glorithverse" where Kara was never a member of the LSH. (see ANDROMEDA entry to follow)

WaK 3Boot: In a universe where Superboy can't be used, Supergirl makes an overdue appearance back into the LSH mythos.


ANDROMEDA

TMK Era: When editorial dictates force the removal of Supergirl from the LSH mythos, Laurel "Andromeda" Gand is created to fill the void. Becomes a core player immedietely following her intro.

T&MB/SW6 Era: Laurel continues to be a core player.

Legion on the Run Era: Shortly following the departure of the Bierbaums, Laurel is saddled with a hideous new look and then is killed off (look for "Dismantling TMK Syndrome" in upcoming Legionnaires' entries).

Post-Boot Era: Andromeda turns up fairly early, but, unlike her previous version, is VERY unlikeable. She later goes off to join a space-nunnery and afterwards appears only sporadically through the rest of the Post-Boot era.


SUMMARY


Hopefully I didn't upset any Kara or Laurel fans. I do NOT consider these two the same character and in fact don't see why both can't co-exist on the team, but I felt it necessary to present them together considering the Andromeda character's origin. With Supergirl set to exit the 3Boot LSH soon and Andromeda neither appearing in the Tooniverse or Countdown, it looks like there will soon be a shortage of super-blonde babes. I'll freely admit to preferring Andromeda over Kara in the LSH, and hope the TMK/T&MB Andy one day finds a way back into the mythos.

Rokk, I'd wonder if he was given Superboy's role in the 5YL & postboot LSHs. Sure, Valor in the former & the JLA in the latter "officially" inspired them, but I'd wonder if Rokk got the sort of boost Alan Scott got, unplanned, in the post-Crisis JSA.

Great thread Lash! Liked the WILDFIRE review as well. I agree that considering his past popularity, he's due for a rennaissance.

Carggie, thanks for the kudos. I admit to writing this entire thread from memory. So yeah, it appears I do have a freakish (geekish!) retention for all things LSH. And I agree, Ayla is an ideal subject, so...


LIGHTNING LASS/LIGHT LASS/GOSSAMER/SPARK

Early Adventure Era/Shooter Era: Ayla fares as well as any non-Imra female Legionnaire appearance-wise.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Cutie Ayla continues semi-regular appearances.

S/LSH/80s Era: Ayla continues to appear semi-regularly.

Levitz Era: Ayla continues to appear semi-regularly until Levitz writes her out. Later on she returns as Lightning Lass and her appearances increase for the remainder of Levitz' run.

TMK Era: Ayla has a core role for the first time ever. Another first is the romance with teammate Shrinking Violet.

T&MB/SW6 Era: Ayla continues regular appearances, in both the LSH and as SW6 Gossamer.

Legion on the Run Era: An example of "Dismantling TMK Syndrome", Ayla is reduced in age to a child, effectively ending the romance with Salu. No longer a core player.

Post-Boot Era: Spark is a major player early on. As the team grows larger, her appearances reduce accordingly.

WaK 3Boot Era: Light Lass returns in a fairly large role.

Tooniverse Era: I've been surprised (and disappointed) by her no-show here.

Countdown Era: There was a statue!


SUMMARY

No one ever made full use of Light Lass' powers, but when she returned as the flashier-powered Lightning Lass (and after her brother's exit), her star rose higher, culminating in a core role during TMK. I've been surprised and pleased by the WaK Ayla, who seems to be using the Light Lass powers to potential for the first time ever.

Reboot, that Rokk theory seems very sound! Drake, I'm totally pulling for a big-time Wildfire return. And now a requested quickie...


NIGHT GIRL

Adventure/Shooter Eras: Substitute member Lydda gets play fairly often for a non-member. Status as Cosmic Boy's girlfriend gets her used away from her fellow Subs a time or two as well.

Grell/S/LSH/80s Era: The Subs as a team don't often appear, but Lydda does occasionally, and is even listed on the roll call page (S/LSH 236, iirc). And don't forget the Shadow Lass sort-of team-up that introduces Sinde into the LSH mythos.

Levitz Era: Lydda gets major play in the COSMIC BOY miniseries and appears occasionally in the regular book. She is unfortunately absent from the SUBS Special and the SUBS' DCCP appearance. She turns down as offer for LSH membership but Levitz puts her on the all-new SUBS team alongside Cosmic Boy.

TMK Era: She appears mainly as a background player, but has some noteworthy appearances. She keeps the lights out to protect the LSH babies during both the B.I.O.N. and zombie altercations, and has a starring role in the BLOODLINES annual.

Post-Boot Era: Lydda is rejected and meets Polar Boy, but nothing else is ever done with that.

Tooniverse Era: Lydda has been spotted in both the cartoon and the comic.


SUMMARY


Night Girl has got to win the award for most regularly-appearing super-character that never joined the LSH. She needs to appear in the 3Boot stat. Maybe she will be Cos' girl in the Countdown continuity. I'm disappointed that she didn't join the tooniverse Subs, but understand that her power-levels would have amped the team up a notch too high.

FERRO LAD


Shooter Era: Andrew has a great debut and a stunning exit a handful of issues later... and it still doesn't quite end there. His "ghost" pops up shortly thereafter and his twin brother shows up for the Adult Legion tale.

Grell Era: Andy's clone shows up for one issue, granting many fans their first-ever look at Ferro Lad.

Levitz Era: The Douglas Nolan situation is dealt with by Levitz. Ferro Lad's statue appears occasionally throughout, keeping him in fans' thoughts.

TMK Era: Batch SW6 Ferro Lad debuts!

T&MB/SW6 Era: Andrew comes to the fore for the first time in the SW6-LEGIONNAIRES series. His daredevilly, fun personality instantly makes him a character to watch, until he is whited out during the "End of an Era" storyline.

Post-Boot Era: After his introduction, Ferro appears regularly until LEGION LOST. He returns for an issue of Legion Worlds then rejoins toward the latter part of DnA's THE LEGION. For this fan, he never quite regains the "character to watch" status he had during T&MB's usage of him.

Tooniverse Era: Ferro Lad was a big star of the first season's 2-part finale. He is mentioned in the comic's lettercol in # 5.

Countdown Era: Wasn't there a Ferro Lad statue in Superman's Fortress? I seem to recall one.


SUMMARY

It may be that Ferro Lad was never destined for long-term usage, as the one time he is used long-term (the post-boot era), it is a stunning failure for the most part. Best handling was during the Bierbaum's too-short stint. I'd like to see him return somehow to the Tooniverse, but it looks like Ferro Lad's best role in LSH Lore might very well be as the short-term Legionnaire who sacrificed himself to save the universe. There are certainly worse ways to be remembered.

SATURN GIRL

Early Adventure Era: Imra is, without doubt, the female star of the team and a core member.

Shooter Era: Imra maintains her status as core member and unequalled female star of the LSH.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Not as much an "unequalled" female star as shorter stories become the norm and lasses like Shrinking Violet, Projectra and Shadow Lass benefit from sexy new costumes.

S/LSH/80s Era: Imra remains a core player.

Levitz Era: Imra remains a big player on the team even after Levitz writes out the founders. She returns full-time not long after.

TMK Era: Imra becomes a backgound player only, appearing rarely.

T&MB/SW6 Era: SW6 Saturn Girl has a lead role; meanwhile, LSH Imra maintains background player status.

Early Post-Boot Era: Saturn Girl is an early star of the reboot.

"Archie" Post-Boot Era: That star keeps on shining.

DnA Post-Boot Era: A star of LEGION LOST, Imra maintains her star status throughout the reboot.

WaK 3Boot Era: Saturn Girl is there, but is almost an afterthought so far. No longer a core player.

Tooniverse Era: A return to top-tier status. Core member.

Countdown Era: She's on that upcoming ACTION cover, safe to assume she will be a major player.


SUMMARY

With the glaring exceptions of the TMK and WaK eras, Saturn Girl has been a top-tier player in LSH history. For this fan, eras that don't utilize Imra are all the worse for it.

INVISIBLE KID 1

Early Adventure Era: Lyle Norg appears semi-regularly.

Shooter Era: Appearances increase accordingly when he is voted leader. Also benefits from some character development.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Lyle is killed, the third casualty of the "writing out lower-powered characters" policy. His clone appears 3 issues later.

Levitz Era: Levitz begins an interesting storyline with a returned Lyle Norg. Unfortunately, the ending fizzles. Meanwhile, a second IK has been intro'ed (see entry to follow).

TMK Era: Batch SW6 Invisible Kid debuts!

T&MB/SW6 Era: I'd be more scared of an invisible zombie than any of the others. Meanwhile, SW6 Lyle becomes a regular player.

Reboot Era: Lyle's star shines brightly throughout the reboot.

WaK 3Boot Era: He's there, but nowhere near the reboot-era (or any other era's) levels of greatness.

Countdown Era: Wasn't there a Lyle statue in the fortress? Maybe not.

INVISIBLE KID 2

Levitz Era: Sacre bleu! Jacques Foccart debuts in time for the Great Darkness saga, and appears regularly throughout the remainder of Levitz' run.

TMK Era: Jacques is mostly a background player.

T&MB Era: Giving up presidency of New Earth, Jacques and his wife Infectious Lass join the LSH on Talus, and he appears semi-regularly through "End of an Era".

Reboot Era: Jacques has one appearance as a black-ops type operative with ties to Lyle Norg.


SUMMARY

Lyle has certainly fared best of the 2 Invisible Kids. Lyle was great as leader in the Shooter days, but apparently that greatness was forgotten by the Grell era. Fortunately, the Bierbaums remembered and the post-boot team took that baton from them and ran with it. Sadly, Jacques will likely be left behind in LSH Lore as long as Lyle Norg is alive and active. It will be very interesting to see which of the two will appear in the tooniverse or Countdown eras, if either.

Jacques has appeared in the cartoon as an applicant, and both he and Lyle have statues in Superman's Fortress, so it's likely that their histories are similar in the 'Countdown Era' to what they were in the Levitz era.

Thanks for the update, I must have missed Jacques' application. And I really need to observe that spread with all the statues again! Nice to know Jacques isn't forgotten (though this bodes ill for Countdown-era Lyle).

MLLASH, I am enjoying your breakdowns as much as everyone else...Here's the pic of the LS Legion Statues, just so you'll have it for reference.





Since the picture is kind of small, I'll go ahead and list them.

Left to Right. Front row to back.

1st Row:

1. Chameleon boy
2. Karate Kid
3. Mon-El
4. Cosmic Boy
5. Lightning Lad
6. Sun Girl
7. Sun Boy
8. Ultra Boy
9. Phantom Girl
10. Wildfire

2nd Row:
1. Colossal Boy
2. Light Lass
3. Star Boy
4. Dream Girl
5. Invisible Kid(Lyle)
6. Wildfire
7. Timber Wolf
8. White Witch
9. Brainiac 5
10. Element Lad

3rd Row:

1. Shadow Lass
2. Invisible Kid(Jaques)
3. Polar Boy
4. Dawnstar
5. Blok
6. Bouncing Boy
7. Duo Damsel
8. Ferro Lad
9. Matter-Eater Lad
10. Sensor Girl

* I know Shrinking Violet is in that picture too...but it's too small to see where she is...probably standing on Colossal Boy's shoulder or something.


The only original Legionaires not accounted for are Supergirl, Chemical King, Tyroc, Tellus, Quislet and Mganetic Kid.

Technically...the last time the Superboy who grew up to be Superman appeared in the Legion was Baxter Legion #12 and #13, right before Quislet, Tellus, Sensor Girl and Magnetic Kid joined...so he probably just doesn't have their statues.

It also might have been the original Superboy that was in the Legion #23 to help cure Mon-El's lead poisoning, so that might explain Projecta being in her Sensor Girl Uniform.


The only truly puzzling and unexplainable omissions from the statues are Chemical King and Tyroc. Two guys that didn't get a lot of print in their Legion careers...even Supergirl's omission can be explained in continuity, as he has a statue of her there next to the Legion...

Plus, I am pretty sure that Superboy never remembered Kara's existence when coming back to the 20th century from his Legion Adventures...that would be a big future detail, exactly the sort of thing they didn't want him to know.


The fact that there is a Mon-El with an identical origin in both the W&K Legion and LS Legion is extraordinarily intriguing...not only becuase Superboy probably wasn't supposed to know Mon-El escapes one day...but also because Mon-El is the only character that seems to be the same guy in both the LS Legion and the W&K Version...

This Superman obviously knew the Mon in the LS Legion...and he also obviously knows the Mon in the W&K Legion...in fact we know for certain he put the W&K Mon into the Phantom Zone.


Either they screwed up putting Mon in those statues...or this Legion of 3 worlds is a lot trickier than anyone is expecting it to be.

Vi is on Gim's shoulder in that pic.

Also Lash, post-boot Ferro joined the team unofficially during Team20 and formally when the 2 teams recombined. This is way before DNA breaking him to pieces.

TMK note: I loved Andrew's brief appearance in the Mordruverse. He was just as self-sacrificing and heroic, but with the added depth of an older family man while fighting an impossible fight against a seemingly unbeatable enemy.

I am enjoying these breakdowns of our Legionnaires as well. Nice Job. I look forward to Colossal Boy, Timber Wolf, and Violet.

One thing I noticed here that has sort of cemented my sentiments towards the TMK Legion (mostly bad sentiments), was the treatment of the previously popular Legionnaires, who were either torn down or not used much at all during the TMK run. Sun Boy, Wildfire, Saturn Girl, Blok, as mentioned before by MLLASH, and Colossal Boy were all characters I really liked who were left behind or "de-hero-ized" in those issues. The Legionnaires that were focused on were all not my particular favorites (Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, Brainy, Cham, Ayla) or were IMO disfigured beyond recognition (Violet, T-Wolf, White Witch, Dawnstar). I guess these negative things go away eventually with new generations of readers, but for old timers like me, the bad seems to stick and never makes the good characters quite the same again. The fact that it took a decade for the Legion to regain popularity after TMK (with a serious close call of cancellation) I think supports my statements.

Superboy, thanks for posting the "statues" pic, my memory was zoning a bit there!

Novelty, I guess I should have a disclaimer that thoughts on how characters were presented is strictly my opinion... I really disliked Post-Boot Ferro (used to call him "Ferro Wuss") and the 20th century origin, although I will grant that the whole "facial deformity" angle plays a little better with a character from our times. I liked him much better when DnA brought him back in the latter part of THE LEGION.

Drake, "Mordruverse" Andrew most certainly deserved a mention. My WAY bad. He also pops up briefly during the T&MB Mordru/zombies storyline.

Kid Q, all eras have their pluses and minuses. I'm a TMK/T&MB fan but I won't gloss over their faults and yes, I think the ignoring of popular Levitz-era charcters was a bad idea. I thought the writing out of lesser-powered characters during the Cockrum/Grell era was an awful mistake too, as well as the "Dismantling TMK" that followed the exits of the Bierbaums. Terrible idea.

I've had a lot of fun with this thread, and will squeeze in a few more entries this evening.

Lash, not trying to get into Bouncing Boy/Matter Eater Lad do more harm than good but wasn't Cockrum's Legion successful? As was the Levitz legion that as you say in this post barely used either character?

I don't think those characters not being used was a mistake but just a change in tone. Look at Tyroc. If he is to be used again I think he needs to be overhauled personally.

Kid Quislet, I agree about Wildfire. And I agree (to a degree) about Sun Boy, Blok, Vi, and T-Wolf. Especially the first two. But the Sun Boy traitor/Dominators subplot was so well written I couldn't get upset. And it seems to be in legion tradition. There was a "traitor" every other issue. Blok is one of my faves as well but his death was so well written I was content with it. (Ok, many months after it happened I was content)

Vi and T-Wolf? Well to the truth it felt like their personalities were quite generic before. Lots of people blame Levitz pigeon-holed the characters personalities by giving them a role. But I'm reading the old stories and even the Shooter Legion didn't have much personality. The individual members that is (not the run/that had personality...heck his VILLAINS had personailty).

I saw Vi and T-wolf in v4 as an extension of Levitz's work personally. Sure it was a change but I liked it. They weren't acting out of character I thought.

I agree it was a bit dark for many Legion members like Dawnstar and the White Witch not including all those poor characters in the tubes underground.

TIMBER WOLF


Early Adventure Era: The lone wolf Legionnaire debuts as a one-shot character.

Shooter Era: Pops up for the Adult LSH tale, then joins late in the Adventure run. Appears semi-regularly with a major appearance in Shooter's lotus-fruit addiction story.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Apparently dies "off-camera", but returns with a hot new more-feral Cockrum look. Appears regularly.

S/LSH/80s Era: Appears on a regular rotation.

Levitz Era: Regular appearances with highlights like "Cold and Lonely Corner of Hell". Appearances seem to increase once the breakup with Light Lass occurs and the friendship with Blok develops. Late Levitz era, Brin's popularity seems to be at an all-time high what with winning deputy leader status as voted by the fans.

TMK Era: The Furball fiasco continues the trend of messing up popular Levitz-era characters. However, Brin is eventually put into a more human form and gets his own miniseries (even though it wasn't all that great). Timber Wolf continues to appear regularly through "End of an Era".

DnA Post-Boot Era: Brin shows up in the last few years of the post-boot (LEGION WORLDS) and appears steadily through its ending.

WaK 3Boot Era: Timber Wolf returns, fully human for the first time years. Appears semi-regularly.

Tooniverse Era: A core player, Brin is seemingly a cross between Feral Cockrum T-Wolf and DnA T-Wolf, with a bit of post-Furball Brin for good measure.

Countdown Era: As evidenced above, a Dave Cockrum-style Timber Wolf has a statue, and he was a major player during "Lightning Saga".


SUMMARY

Timber Wolf's had quite a fun run, hasn't he? As glad as I am to see the Cockrum-style Wolfie back, I've grown fonder than I would have guessed of the all-human WaK/3Boot Brin. The TMK era suffered for the lack of a coherent Brin, while DnA and the tooniverse (and possibly the 3Boot itself soon) may be going too far feral with the character.

Jorge, sure, Cockrum and Levitz' runs were successful. So is the cartoon, whiuch features both characters. It's tats for tits. For me, it all boils down to how creative a writer is. I feel Bates and Levitz were lazy to write out certain characters.

Lash, I'm not sure how successful the cartoon is. Trust me my favorite was the Subs episode and I prefer it to have the less powerful characters.

But season 2 seems like a drastic change for a successful show. If it wasn't broke why fix it? Have BB or MEL appeared in any promo pics for Season 2?

Was TMK lazy to write out so many characters?

I think Wildfire and Dawnstar got the laziest treatment but that's about it IMO.

Lash, with Ferro, I was just saying that he joined a lot earlier than you had (originally?) listed him as joined.

Also as for Wildfire - he actually showed up BEFORE DNA with a rather convoluted origin that not many people liked.

Jorge, I have no solid facts about the success of the cartoon on hand (though I would assume the greenlit second season and McDonald's tie-ins speak for themselves), but any argument or implication about Chuck and Tenzil having a negative effect on the LSH's success can be pretty much automatically trumped by the massively successful Adventure Era, in which they were both long-term members.

As for TMK, yeah, Wildfire was treated with laziness ("inexcuseable", I believe I called it in his summary). Dawnstar was more a victim of sloppy, careless writing to me.

Anyhoo, I'll stress that comments made on characters are strictly my opinions only.

Novelty, thanks for the clarification.

"automatically"? Wow. That's a big general statement.

My point wasn't that these characters deter the Legion during the Adventure era.

My point is they might fit a certain era better than another. And yes that is the Adventure era as you stated. Just like Tyroc fits the 70's.

I have my own opinions as well but none "automatically trump" anything. I'm all for the future of the Legion hanging on the Super-Pets!