Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 12

Alternate Page Four...

Panel 3:Over the (Cosmic Boy's) shoulder shot of a tearful Ayla, with clenched angry fists berating an impassive Rokk
Ayla: Your friends are down there >sob< and my brother! He wouldn't stand by while you were threatened, but you're safe here. with your sacred--

Panel 4: Over the Ayla's) shoulder shot of Ayla's face turned towards us as she receives a stinging slap from Cosmic Boy.
Rokk Shouting: Shut Up!

Panel 5: Mid shot from slightly low angle. We see Ayla's back as she looks up to where her mass powers have propelled Cosmic Boy's head through the ceiling. Her hand touches the side of her face that Rokk slapped. Cosmic Boy's legs make no movement indicating unconsciousness.
Ayla: Well, looks like someone's powers are still working today. I won't abandon the Legion!

Panel 6: Low angle shot of an armed Ayla at the teleporter. Rokk can be seen still embedded in the ceiling beyond her. The teleporter has been activated showing sparkly effects on part of Ayla's torso.
Caption: Soon...
Ayla: I've contacted Mon-El and Violet. They'll be here in minutes to help me!

Panel 7: Longshot of Ayla on the planet's rocky surface. She hides behind a head height outcropping, and we see the villains' citadel behind it. We see the same sparkly teleporter pattern on part of her.
Ayla: But first I need to get inside to find out if they're still alive!

Ayla proceeds to use combinations of her flight ring, rifle and mass altering powers to sneak/ shoot and bring the citadel crashing down as she gets to her friends. Her powers destroy the cell controls. Jo and Mon-El stop the Empress killing everyone, and Vi knocks the villain out.

Murray Boltinoff: "Too logical! Twelve-year-olds would never understand this, and you want to threaten young boys' masculinity by showing a girl kayoing the manly hero in his brand new bustier? You're finished at DC. Go work for Marvel or something."

(An hour later, thoth comes back with the same script.)

Murray: "This is brilliant! We'll run it in the next issue."

Ah the good 'ol days!

Note that I did show the manly bustier off by only having Rokk's head through the ceiling.

I had a another one where they talked it through and went to rescue their friends together after calling for back up. Having them act like grown ups, without any fighting, would have alienated the readership too.

Karate Kid 1



Mike Grell’s cover has our eponymous hero leap from a time bubble (containing Legionnaires including Superboy to get crossover readers) to beat up villains in firm martial arts action tradition.

The first page is notable because Val, who is Asian on the cover, is now white; someone has lost one of Nemesis Kid’s words and Val threatens to violate the Legion code against killing at the first available opportunity.

It seems that somehow Nemesis Kid has travelled into the past. From there, he’s challenged Karate Kid. Val has jumped at the challenge, without telling his colleagues. It looks as though his plan was to do it alone. So that Nemesis Kid’s powers couldn’t adapt and let him escape. There’s nothing to let us know why Val couldn’t have shared the plan.

As Nemesis Kid can beat any single foe, the other Legionnaires remind Val that he would probably have been beaten. It’s a reminder he could have done with in a later Levitz tale in the Baxter run.

But Levitz seems to have had firm ideas about Val from the outset. His daily training sets him apart from the other Legionnaires who have been born with theirs or received them in other ways. While it’s nice to have differing outlooks in the team, it doesn’t really explain why he’s knocked out Lightning Lad with a kick to the face by page five, or why Mon El has threatened Val with broken limbs.

So far, it’s an adolescent tale of posturing. It looks as though the creative team are using all of that hot air to force there to be a reason for Val to stay in the 20th century.

As the other Legionnaires petulantly leave him behind, Val’s flight ring becomes suddenly inoperative. Terribly, terribly convenient. Even more so, is that it fails just in time for him to meet the series co-star Iris Jacobs. She’s a teacher who will act as Val’s guide to the stories in a similarly dull way to that of Red Tornado and Kathy Sutton.

He may be a villain, but Nemesis Kid does everything he possibly can to give Levitz an easy job, and to lead Val through the city by golden ring in his nose (represented here by a chronal detector).

He sees a man with a futuristic gun, just walking along with no plan. He makes no further appearance in the issue and is only there to guide Val to Nemesis Kid’s lair.

At the HQ Val encounters a group of martial artists. As they are all at the HQ, they don’t need to lead Val anywhere. So they don’t get any futuristic equipment at all, and exist simply to remind folks that there’s a martial arts link to a Karate Kid.

Val then proceeds to tackle Nemesis Kid again. We see some more of the Legionnaire’s physical abilities such as resistance to pain and finding the weak spots in any structure. But having him scale sheer surfaces (with damaged toes no less) and exhibit super strength seems to push things a little too far. In the end, Nemesis Kid is taken down by a single punch. He’s sent back into the future with a note, telling the Legion that Val intends to stay in the 20th Century to find himself. Hopefully he can find a better creative team while he’s at it. As harsh as it sounds this was a poor opening issue.

The power of the villain fluctuates along with the hero. Karate Kid shows no empathy towards his team mates. They seem like children in their responses to him. Of course, the female Legionnaire defends him. It’s the dream of all male comic writers that women are attracted to introverted, loner personalities. Their heroes are possibly projections of their own childhood fantasies. Another example is Iris Jacobs who seems incredibly dim to trust anyone with the personality issues Val has.

The only interesting thing is that Val seems happier being a hero on his own terms rather than being stifled in the Legion. Throughout the Legion’s history, you’d get glimpses of other missions that the team were off doing instead of being in the main story. It’s hard to believe Val couldn’t have found some enjoyment there.

But then, that wouldn’t get Val on a 20th century bus like the one on page 9. Readers may recognise the bus as being the one that left town with the initial thrust of martial arts movie popularity, well before DC belatedly decided to launch a tie in title.

In summary, this was a let-down of an issue. Sketchily plotted, poorly written with substandard art. The best part was the Grell cover.

And how did Nemesis Kid get there? Why did he need to steal Karate Kid's time bubble at all, if he had one of his own?

KK1

I knew we were in trouble on the first page when we found ourselves smack in the middle of a fight between our titular hero and Nemesis Kid and there were no backgrounds. Apparently, we're supposed to be kept in the dark as to where this story takes place until the next page. It's not a convincing set up, any more so than KK's threat to kill Nemesis Kid.

This issue marks Paul Levitz's debut as a Legion scripter, and I'm ordinarily willing to cut a new writer some slack, especially given Levitz's age. He would have just turned 19 when this story was published. But even 15-year-old Shooter plotted much better stories than this.

The confrontation with the Legion seems like an attempt to inject Marvel-style interpersonal conflict in the team, but it's heavy handed and unconvincing. Val is apparently so angry that Nemesis Kid escaped from Brainy's prison cell that he gets physical with Brainy and kayos Lightning Lad. Mon puts a stop to it but then, demonstrating that he's not a very good leader, lets KK remain behind to do his own thing. Whatever happened to the requirement that all members had to obey the leader? Of course, Mon doesn't even bother giving an order.

And that's not the worst of my problems with the opening scene. Where did those huge holes in the street come from and why are the nearby cars scattered? Were they the result of KK's fight with NK, or were they somehow caused by the vibrations of KK's fist hitting Mon's hand? We're not told either way.

Then, after the Legion leaves, we're introduced to two buffoon cops who believe Val is part of some movie production and only want to detain him because of his costume. What about all the damage he seems to have caused?

And that's just the first few pages. The story doesn't get any better from there.

Everything happens because the plot demands it happen. Val tosses away his damaged flight ring. Why? The plot demands it. (What happened to the signal device in the ring? Did it still work?) Val meets Iris and she guides the funnily dressed stranger to the roof. Why? Because the plot demands it. Val chances to see a man carrying a 30th century blaster. Why? Because the plot demands it.

Even the "change" in Val at the end happens just because it's supposed to happen. He stays in the 20th century to find himself. (We didn't know he was lost.) Apparently, he's so impressed by the 20th century, where people have classrooms, ride the bus, and actually "do" things, that he's decided he wants to hang out for awhile. Yawn. There's no conflict or sense that this change of location is going to be important to Val.

(Later, we will learn that the real reason he stays in the 20th century is to prove to King Voxv he has what it takes to marry Jeckie--a marginally more convincing motive.)

The fight scenes appear to be reasonably well choreographed, so that's a plus if you're looking for Bruce Lee-style action. It's just a shame Val no longer resembles Bruce Lee, even though Grell's redesign of Val's features was considered so important that it was highlighted in the letters page circa 210.

There are a few other pluses, such as Levitz demonstrating his fan knowledge by having the story spring off of NK's capture back in 208 and the long-running feud between him and Val. As thoth pointed out, there is also an effort to distinguish KK from the other Legionnaires by focusing on his discipline and martial arts knowledge, as opposed to having a super-power. When he says Mon can't understand him, and he can't understand Mon, this difference in outlook would make a good basis for inter-group conflict. However, it needs to be established more organically than it is here.

"Don't call me. I'll call you!" But how? No bubble or flight ring.

As we point out the areas where Shooter and Bates' plots could do better, it's worth pointing out that their craft was easily at a higher standard than this.

I was thinking the same thing, thoth. The ol' Modest Brain Globes trick again.

It's also worth noting that the editor is Joe Orlando, not Boltinoff. I know next to nothing about Orlando, but he appears to have been young and new to the business, as well. Boltinoff, for all of his old fashioned ideas and forgetfulness, also had standards of quality and experience which showed in the final product.

Karate Kid #1

Yeah, you guys did a good job summarizing the issue and immense list of things wrong with it. It's a common type of superhero series from the 70's: pretty bad most of the time, achieving mediocrity on occasion. Levitz's first turn as a writer of Legion-related material is bumpy at best and just downright bad in places, such as the convenience of the plot. The dialogue is over the top and it feels as if you're sprinting through the issue because of its action pace, which may or may not have been an attempt to mimic Marvel.

One line was bad enough to make me love it. After Val swings back in to keep fighting hand to hand, Nemesis Kid yells, "My adaptation is shifting to the offense...with nuclear power to shatter your atoms!" WTF? If that's how his powers react to another fist-fight, what does he do against other Legionnaires? When Chuck bounces at him, he unleashes a Sun-Eater?

I actually don't mind his reason for staying in the 20th Century if they toned down the 'people did things' element. If its a matter of feeling like he's not fitting in among his super-powerful Legion peers and wanting to spend some time re-finding himself, that makes sense. But the way in which this notion is executed is just incredibly annoying.

In fact, Val kind of comes across as a punch-first meathead all issue. He isn't anywhere near as likable as his Shooter Adventure days.

This is the first time I read this issue and I had low expectations. Unfortunately they were firmly met.

The way NK'S powers are portrayed in this story has always bugged the heck out of me. Rather than adapting to the weaknesses of his opponent, it really seems as though he can select pretty much any power he wants. Which kind of misses the point of the character.

His power is supposed to adapt to be able to defeat any single foe. Tat's the way I remember it anyway. But here, it seems to take a few seconds for that adaptation to work. That delay also seems to prevent him adapting between powers once a fight is underway.

So, when the nuclear blasts are avoided, he's vulnerable to a kick in the chops. So, he's pretty easy to defeat when you can avoid his first power or you distract him. Not exactly the person who had that creepy arrogance of invulnerability that I recall. Just some super creep that has a swiss army knife of powers, but not the time to move between them.




Rah Rah Rambat!



A very good point. Those disappearing standards, and the backgrounds of those with those standards really impacted the quality of DC for me.

Yeah, but I've always understood his powers as geared towards defeating that specific foe. So, if he's faced with someone who is invulnerable to everything except kryptonite, he'll develop kryptonite blasts, or if it's someone with the strength of ten men, he'll develop the strength of twelve men, or something. He doesn't just develop generic "nuclear blasts" to use against the guy with karate, and then, when those don't work, develops something else.

Nemesis Kid: Eat 2 Megaton Nuclear Blast!
Foe: Gaaaah!
Nemesis Kid: That's the end of Karate Kid.
Editor: No! What have you done? We're only on page 1!
Nemesis Kid: Um.... put in Batman for crossover sales?
Batman: You shall pay for your crimes!
Nemesis Kid: Eat 2 Megaton Nuclear Blast!
Editor: Nooooo!

KK1 was definitely a disappointment in a number of ways. First, in and of itself it was a poor story for all the reasons mentioned above. Second, Val himself, a sentimental favorite of this Legion fan, far from shines in his solo debut.

I can't really say I had super-high expectations here, but I was kinda hoping for something that would spotlight Val in a somewhat memorable or competent way. Even a schlocky martial arts pastiche could have been halfway decent with even a little bit of craft. Even the earliest Iron Fist adventures had a style and sense of fun to them, but this debut shows none of that.

It makes me glad that the original stated quandary at this stage in the Archives about whether or not to reprint the entire KK series didn't go the other way. I have no idea whether Levitz turns in better scripts or if the series improves under Michelinie's pen, but this debut makes me not want to find out. I'd be curious if any of you who have read the entire series could offer some thoughts on that regard.

Estrada's art was unremarkable, but there were some shots and especially some faces that made me think of Walt Simonson's work. I don't know if he was aping (early) Simonson or if some of the similarities are imagined. None of it holds a candle, of course.

So....Iris Jacobs. At first blush she would seem to be intended as a romantic interest, and the lack of any mention of Jeckie in the entire issue certainly makes me wonder. A glance at subsequent plot descriptions shows this oversight would be addressed, but I'm mildlky curious as to how Iris proceeds as a continuing supporting character.

Again disappointing story but, still, I'm kinda glad this issue was included, so I could see a taste of it for myself, even if the taste was a little sour. It's a curiosity and one that is a bit puzzling. I'd certainly like to have known more about the thinking to spin Val off and particularly with this spin. I know there was the recent Kung Fu craze to consider, but a new character like Iron Fist or Shang Chi at Marvel probably would have been a better choice.

I think the only other issue I've read is the Bob Rozakis-written #12, which I remember being *much* better than this one. In fact, that issue makes me really curious about the rest of the series...

I have the complete run of KK, but I'd have to re-read them to offer any specific insights.

What I remember

These are just my memories, probably faulty in places. If time permits in the near future and if there's interest, I'll do a Karate Kid re-read thread.

I, for one, would certainly be interesting in reading your thoughts on the series.

I've got most of the run, and I was going to put up a little "Elsewhere" paragraph to accompany the main Legion review.

Lots of good points on the issue. There was the Legion, but the sci fi angle was crammed in, just long enough to connect Val to the Legion and dump him here.

There was martial arts action. But it was clumsily done, technologically out of step with the rest of the cast and didn't bring out any good things form that genre.

The villain has been seen as a duplicitous traitor, but with a power to be scared of. Not here.

The hero under Shooter has been written along his usual loner hero lines, but with that Jeckie romance adding a positive dimension to it. Not here, where she doesn't get a mention.

In the world containing the Internet, there's all sorts of instant squealing at the thought of any kind of change. Imagine that Shooter/Bates were writing the Legion. Then, on the back of Karate Kid #1, Paul Levitz was announced as the new Legion writer. What would your thoughts have been?*



*this question completely refuses to acknowledge any answer including "well, I've seen the cover of #216 so it wouldn't have been all bad."

Thanks, Lardy.

thoth, go ahead with your elsewhere paragraphs. I may chime in or, if I feel there's more to say, I may start a new thread. In general, I feel it might be distracting if we review two different ongoing series in the same thread, but, again, it depends on how much there is to say about KK.

Your question is very interesting. As I said before, at the time I was 12, so I was not aware of who individual writers were or what they brought to a comic. I also would not learn anything about critically evaluating a story for many years. So, at the time, I was just thrilled to have a second Legion-related comic. KK had never been one of my favorite Legionnaires, and his solo adventures in the 20th century worked against much of what I loved about the team, but there was always hope that more Legionnaires would show up (and they eventually did).

Because I was young (and for many years after), I could not have anticipated what Levitz might bring to the Legion at this early stage in his development. I would have probably continued to buy the comic regardless and would likely have found something to draw me in. The great thing about some of these mid-seventies DC comics, such as Freedom Fighters, Secret Society of Super-Villains, and Karate Kid, was that they played on my adolescent needs for power, adventure, and imagination. They also provided alternatives to the most popular heroes such as Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. Because I was not a popular kid, I connected with these characters more than I did with the Big Guns (another reason why the Legion stood out to me).

When Levitz did take over with 225 or so, he wasn't much older or experienced as a writer. I recall finding his early issues jarring--more straightforward super-hero than science fiction. But the switch in artists from Grell to Sherman/Abel annoyed me more than the switch in writers.

FWIW, I always assumed we'd do a separate "Re-Reading Karate Kid" thread when the time came.

As someone who has an aversion to trendy things I decided to take a pass on the Karate Kid series when it first came out. I can see from the reviews so far that I didn't miss much by doing so. Although I don't own any of the KK issues, I do, oddly enough, have the Kamandi crossover issue, which is parked between S/LSH 241 and 242 in one of my Legion boxes.

Joe Orlando, btw, got his start as an artist at EC in the early 1950s, and was one of the first artists (as opposed to writers) to become an editor at a major comic book publisher, first with Warren and then with DC. He was co-creator of the Inferior 5 (with Nelson Bridwell), and edited mostly non-superhero books like Anthro, Bat Lash, Weird War Tales and Adventure (in its short post-Supergirl run as an anthology title.

As superheroes took over the entire comics industry, people like Orlando, whose strengths lay in other genres, found themselves shunted aside by the powers that be. Orland eventually went "back" to EC, becoming Associate Publisher of Mad magazine until his retirement in 1996.

Can I can be a little off topic? I don’t have a large enough comic collection to really participate in a Legion archives re-read, but I want to say a word about Karate Kid and Nemesis Kid in season 2 of the Legion cartoon. The handling of these two characters in the show was different, and interesting. Val was given an origin more similar to Myg. He was portrayed as the youngest of the Legionnaires, and his karate was not so magical—but the still impressed the adult! Superman. Hart was older, already a Science Police officer before joining the Legion, and his powers were better defined: they worked more like Neutrax, and only on people with super powers, which means not on Karate Kid. A little bit of time was spent on the relation ship between Karate Kid and Nemesis Kid. They became good friends. Hart was even sort of mentory, although the joined the Legion at about the same time. It is possible that in season 3 Nemesis Kid would have gone all traitory and joined the dark side, but there was not season 3. I quite liked the whole thing.

Like Lardy, I’d also be very curious to read the comments on KK’s series. I’ve never read a single issue, I don’t think.

Looking a little bit at Karate Kid, the series, by the numbers, it gives a good idea of how both it and the S&LSH series lined up with each other and the rest of the DCU in this era. Karate Kid #1 and S&LSH #215 were on sale in December 1975 (at the tail end of the karate craze). Since Karate Kid was bi-monthly like a great deal of DC series but LSH was monthly, the title runs a lot longer than people actually remember: the final issue, KK #14 is on sale in April 1978 which is the same month that S&LSH #241 is on sale, the first part of Earth War.

So for two and a half years Karate Kid has his own title, spanning from S&LSH #215-241, which is a sizable amount of time. KK subsequently has a one-off appearance in Kamandi #58 in May 1978 and then returns to the Legion at the end of Earth War (along with Garth & Imra as well as Chuck & Luornu) in LSH #244 in July 1978. So his series basically ends just before his return, meaning there was no real gap in his appearances.

And as we all know, Earth War, which heightened the rise of S&LSH even further, occurred at a time when DC was undergoing its Implosion. The loss of Karate Kid’s title may or may not have been a part of that, but he probably was better served by being back in the LSH anyway since they were a whole lot safer than just about any other franchise besides Superman.

Sue, very interesting commentary. I've never seen these episodes of the cartoon and now I want to very much! I love the KK / NK dynamic, and this sounds like someone took that and really spent some time developing it into something substantial.

Great commentary on Joe Orlando. Paul Levitz often sings Orlando's praises and talks about what a great editor he was, and I've heard similar things fro mothers like Len Wein.

Yeah, I was really intrigued by the way the cartoon handled NK, flirting with the traitor issue but not actually going there (at least in the broadcast episodes).

I've always thought he was a character that never quite lived up to his potential, with most of his stories amounting to him getting his butt handed to him despite all the claims of how dangerous he supposedly is. I always wished they would have included him among the SW6 team.

A minor correction: The last issue of KK was # 15 (cover dated Aug. 1978), not 14.

Cobie is right that there wasn't a break in his appearances between the cancellation of his own series and his return to the Legion. In fact, his Earth War appearance picks up quite nicely from where his series left off, as I alluded to in my comments.

And, it was indeed bi-monthly. At the time, waiting sixty days between issues, especially of a continued story line, was interminable. But it did make a series seem to last longer than it actually did.

And I agree that KK was better off in the Legion than he was in his own series. In the Legion, his personality was more interesting in contrast to the other Legionnaires, and his mixed Asian-Caucasian appearance made him unique. These aspects, sadly, were downplayed in his solo series, which sought to recast him as a more "mainstream" hero.

Hermit--Thank you for the info on Orlando. It's great that you have Kamandi # 58. Perhaps you can review it when the time comes.