Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Bits o' Legionnaire Business The Writers' Discussion/Ideas Thread

Hi all,

Having just finished a major story arc for my Postboot/Reboot/Post Zero Hour Legion fanfic, I realized that one major difficulty I had was deciding on my Legion lineup. My final Active roll call is 42 members long, and I seriously considered ending with a lineup of 48 in fact.

(not counting supporting cast, Reservists and Legion Cadets, but I don't feel as big a need to manage the size of those groups! I just keep adding Cadets to my list )

I thought it would be interesting to see how other writers, especially those whose fics are ongoings, decide on their Legion lineups. More than the "who", I think the "why" and "how". Especially as I think the other active writers here all have upwards of 35 Active Legionnaires!

I'll start - when deciding which of my Legionnaires to keep, I focused on (warning, spoilers for those who read my work :p):

1) Diversity - mostly power and personality, although "look" became a small factor as well in the sense that I want to include more non-caucasian humanoids (Particon, Condo Arlik) and more non-humanoids (Lume, Babbage). That's one reason I dropped Magnetic Kid when I had Magno (spoiler!) rejoin as well.

2) My "synergy" with the character - there are some characters I just think I'm really good at writing, and some I need a better handle on. I think many will agree that I "get" Polar Boy (as Blizzard) and Spider-Girl really well, so despite Brek's lack of canon appearances and Sussa's weaker powers, I brought them in. I had an easy time writing Condo Arlik because I made him Lyle's boyfriend, so he got a flight ring too. On the other hand, I had some difficulty writing Kent Shakespeare, and because his powers duplicated many others' I made him take Reserve status.

3) The character's natural evolution in the stories (both canon and in my own writing) - Tenzil was a strong candidate, but I ultimately decided against because I kept having him saying that he didn't see the appeal of constantly being in danger. His powers haven't changed either, so I felt he lacked a compelling reason to change his mind. I'm still keeping him as a Reservist though and am strongly considering having him become full-time Active in the near future. On the other hand, Chuck (spoiler!) recently gained powers in my story AND has history of being in the field (he joined the Legion Subterfuge Squad in Legion Worlds), so it made sense. I almost kept Dirk Morgna as a Reservist too, but I took a second look and decided he enjoyed the thrill of missions, so made him Active too.

Other cuts I reluctantly made were Dragonmage, who inadvertently caused the destruction of Dryad AND Gil'd when he freed the Elementals despite being warned not to; and Thunder, who has a life of her own in the 90th century and (spoiler!) can now return there in her powered form. Finally, I wanted to promote Amp (Girl) Ming Sul and even expanded her powers, but realized that I hadn't given her enough screen time in my work to justify her inclusion just yet. And her "official", canon appearance as a Legion Cadet (Legion 25 only) wasn't impressive enough either, unlike for example Nightwind's or Infectious Lass' (in Gail Simone's story Legion 35-38).

I hope other writers will share their thoughts and thought processes I think this could be an enriching discussion for all of us.

Really interesting question! I know I'm super-green, but I hope you don't mind my two cents!

Diversity of forms and powers and race and gender...totally agree with you. The Legion should look like they come from different planets. To me, there's no reason why they all have to be super Caucasian, and making the cast more diverse can serve the narrative better: sure, humanoids are mostly cool with the gender/race/creed of other humanoids, but you can still show there's room to improve with stuff like how the galaxy at large treats robotic life, or how beings like Drake are perceived, etc.

Also one of the most important things to be about the Legion is their size and the scope of their mandate: they protect the entire United Planets, and I love them most when their numbers are in the 30s/40s for active members. It differentiates them from other teams, and gives a lot of room for a lot of nuanced personalities.

That being said, one of the things I look for is groupings when I'm plotting out arcs. Teenagers, no matter the era, tend to cluster in friendly groups, and the Legionnaires should be no different. Tenzil and Chuck are obvious friends to me, as would be a more Postboot Drake with a more SW6 Ferro (who I have paired and they end up calling themselves "The Gruesome Twosome" and they're just a delight XD), and Luornu is a great lynchpin in getting a lot of the Legion Ladies to crew up into a big collective, depending on how she's written, etc...

The other side to that is where two chracters may clash, and that's sometimes equally fun to play with on missions or the like. Is the more reserved and quiet Tasmia gonna be able to keep her cool if forced to share a cruiser with Matter-Eater Lad for a few days? Would by-the-book Gim Allon be able to reign in Jo Nah and Brin Londo on a mission that requires diplomatic sensitivity? What does an argument about what's ultimately right to do for the galaxy look like between Rokk Krinn and someone like Blok or Tellus? These can be great moments and one of the benefits of a big cast is just how much you can mix-n-match.

Thanks for joining in Not-So-Bad Lad! I'm really glad you added your thoughts to the mix. You make some good points on considering potential character interactions and having a nice mix of personalities in!

I think Postboot Triad is a great character in that regard, she already has 3 different personalities.

On diversity, I very much agree with you as well. That's one reason why I want to keep including the Asian Dragonmage and Amp (Girl) in my own team later on, to join XS, Kid Quantum II, Karate Kid, Particon and Chemical Kid (Condo). As for the non-"humanoids", I really only have Chameleon, Wildfire, Shikari, Gates, Sensor, Lume and Babbage and to a lesser extent Brainiac 5 and Umbra, Nightwind and Infectious Lass (Microbe). Tellus is a good candidate but I'm thinking of tweaking his powerset as right now he duplicates Saturn Girl and Kinetix, and I also have Mentalla as a telepath...

One good thing about forming a Legion team though is that there are so many characters from different 'Boots which can be used, with a little tweaking here and there. And many writers here such as Harbinger and razsolo have included original characters in their teams too.

This is a great topic for discussion, Ibby. Thanks for broaching the subject.

Synergy with characters is indeed important -- for example, I could write Tasmia in my sleep and feel like I got her exactly right, such is my affection and passion for the character. On the other hand, there are characters I like that I just can't quite seem to connect with, the prime example in my estimation being Jan -- one problem with him is I'm not good at hard science, or even basic science really, another is that DnA took the Postboot version of the character to his most logical and disturbing conclusion, and even though I adore "Legion Lost" (it may very well be my favorite multi-part Legion storyarc), there's also a sense of not being able to put the genie back in the bottle, so to speak.

And then there's the challenge of writing characters I personally dislike -- you'd probably never guess it now, but there was a time, despite her kick-ass characterization in "The Universo Project", that Imra was one of my least favorite female Legionnaires. She just seemed so square and so icy; it wasn't until I walked a proverbial mile in her shoes by writing her for the first time a few years ago in a major role in one of my stories that I finally warmed up to her. The biggest, and most rewarding, challenge by far, was writing Preboot Rokk and making him accountable for his horrible actions during the Bronze Age; I feel like I accomplished what I set out to do, and more; that said, I still dislike Rokk intensely and hope never to have to write him again. Dirk was a character I used to loathe because Levitz made him such a one-dimensional pig, but after writing him a few times and gaining a better understanding of him, warts and all, I think he's okay. The biggest challenge before me that I haven't taken yet is trying to write Val, for the same reason I hate the Morrison JLA Batman -- he's just so damned perfect to compensate for his lack of super-powers.

The one lineup I have created from scratch is the one for Supergirl's Legion, and I think it's very telling:

Supergirl
Kinetix
XS
Brainiac 5
Leviathan
Apparition
Shrinking Violet
Wildfire
Kid Quantum
Spark

Lots of gals, and only a few guys, none of whom fit the Alpha Male stereotype. If I do continue Supergirl's Legion, I plan to bring in Umbra (of course), Gates, Quislet, and Tellus.

I also keep the lineup from getting to big by having Luornu, Reep/Rene Junior, Nura, Mysa, and Imra as supporting characters rather than actual Legionnaires. In addition, I used Andromeda as an out-and-out villainess, and I was also planning to bring in Garth as Mekt's partner in villainy; they'd call themselves the Lords of Light (because I am shameless in my use of references to 80s TV cartoons.) Another storyline I had planned for Supergirl's Legion involved introducing my version of the Workforce, led by Kent Shakespeare, who would be exposed as a Miraclo-popping fraud, and including Inferno (minus the homicidal tendencies), Evolvo, and Spider-Girl, all of whom would eventually join the Legion.

As for original characters, well, you never know. Time will tell.

Hi there, this is really interesting to read as I don't think I have any hard and fast rules when I'm putting together a story, I just tend to know who's needed (searching for Laurels dad then she's got to be in it, we need a tracker so Gahaji is called up, Brin and her are kind of a couple so he'd be involved, Kinetix is sniffing round the Ruby of Life so she'll follow Mwindaji, and we haven't seen Lu in a while and it'll be interesting to figure out her relationship with each, so that's that team.... Umm space pirates? well Jan of course, and then....) So it's often just whoever feels right. There has been a couple of exceptions, like I wanted Thunder and Sun Boy to talk so I manufactured a story just to have them together sussing each other out. Then I also had a team composed entirely of Orange Legionnaires just for a hoot, and that worked out well I feel.

As for enjoying or not the characters in Canon, well I hated Harmonia in the comic though grew to really like writing her, same with Dirk. I've struggled really bad with Brek, Rokk and also Jaqcues, though making Daniel slightly autistic and friends with Glorith was a great idea that I've ran and ran with, much to the benefit of the story I think.

I try not to use the same characters in every storyline and plan out characters growths and development into each arc, sometimes obviously and sometimes as a way to plant a seed for something further down the line. Sometimes it works though not always, and I'm fine with that and hope that whoever reads my tales is too.

It's my belief that any creative endeavour starts to lose its vitality if it's over-thought out. With that in mind if I have a silly idea (hey, Orange legionnaires against a world!) I just let it happen and hope for the best.

I chose to introduce new characters because I didn't want to be merely a nostalgia fiend, as much fun as it is, and the Legion is the one group that it's okay to grow to huge proportions. It's okay to introduce a talking Tiggerram and a swarm of sentient stones, alongside the perfect telepathic teammate and a karate kid legacy as its the one place you'll ever see them together.

Ultimately writing is escapism for me, like everyone else I need to let off steam from time to time so imagining 4000 star bandits getting their asses handed to them in a space battle is a good way to do, or so I've found.

My advice, two words: have fun!

Thank you! I'm really glad you said that, Harbi, because I have been guilty of that over and over (at last, the reason for so many unfinished Fickles fanfics revealed)! With my current (non-Legion) fanfic project, I'm taking a much more easy-going approach which, so far, has paid off quite nicely.



THIS!

Cheers, Harbi.

Hi Fanfie and Harbi, really happy to see you both chiming in too!

I agree re synergy, and that it helps to like a character. But I too have had some success with characters I dislike. I find that what's most important is "knowing" the character.

(Thanks too for sharing your future plans for Supergirl's Legion, Fanfie. I love your lineup, devoid of alpha males. (I dislike the super-alpha males which is why Threeboot Jo is the Legionnaire I hate most!).

The two points that Fanfie cited from Harbi's post are my two key takeaways too!




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I also loved Harbi's insights into how to pick characters for a storyline or team. That kind of planning makes juggling an enormous cast of dozens much easier.

During my time in Arkham the hospital this year, I filled notebooks with crummy sketches and pages and pages of the continuing adventures of Rainbow Girl.

Which I am slowly transcribing into electronic files, and gradually uploading into Legion World. I expect it will run about 20 chapters, and 100,000 words. Or more.

(As I had no internet access while committed recuperating, and no control over what was on television, and spending most of the time in bed… Dori was my consolation, escape valve, entertainment and creative outlet.)

My point—and I do have one—is that although the Adventures of Rainbow Girl focuses on a single character, she does wander around the Legion Universe and meets, according to my last count, over one hundred established Legion characters, and another one hundred new characters of my own invention. Not that I was trying to include two hundred characters in the story, but I wanted Dori to explore the Universe, and they just showed up.

Maybe sometime I’ll take a week or two break from mere transcribing and post a Who’s Who in the Earth-K paracosm. Maybe not.

Of course, we are not writing for publication here, so I cannot argue with ‘have fun’, and ‘don’t overthink’.

Otherwise, I would quote the Masters who say ‘writing is 10% inspiration, and 90% editing’; ‘writing is a job, just like any other job—you have to work at it’; ‘I can’t wait to write the synopsis and query letter for my book, said no author, ever’; and ‘kill your darlings’.

And may I say, I admire every single person who posts artwork here, a talent which I sorely lack. What is the word for 'tone-deaf', except drawing, rather than singing?

That's one reason why I haven't killed anyone in my stories yet Well, except for the four White Triangle Daxamite terrorists who went insane after taking anti-lead serum, I had them die...

I've done a little professional writing, and Klar is spot on with all of this XD, but it's gotta be balanced with Harbinger and Fanfic Lady's feelings on fun, or Trepanning starts looking like a reaaaaal attractive option

And like a total dork, I forgot to list out my Legion as was done earlier, and I apologize! My Legion has been breaking down in the outlines as falling into a few 'stages' of membership, and since I like my rosters like I like my coffee pot (full to bursting!), I'll break it down that way for ease!


Original Twelve

Cosmic Boy - Rokk Krinn of Braal
Saturn Girl - Imra Ardeen of Titan
Lightning Lad - Garth Ranzz of Winath
Triplicate Teen - Luornu Durgo of Carggg
Phantom Girl - Tinya Wazzo of Bgztl
Atom Girl - Salu 'Violet' Digby of Imsk
Matter-Eater Lad - Tenzil Kem of Bismoll
Colossal Boy - Gim Allon of Mars
Kid Quantum - Jazmin Cullen of Xanthu
Weather Boy - Myke Chypurz of Luna
Chameleon Kid - Reep Daggle of Durla
Bouncing Boy - Chuck Taine of Earth


The Brande Meta-Institute

Brainiac 5 - Querl Dox of Colu
Invisible Kid - Lyle Norg of Earth
Superlass - Mona Zor-El of NeoKandor
Superlad - Dev-Em of NeoKandor
Anti-Matter Lad - Drake Burroughs of Luna
Chemical Queen - Condo Arlik of Phlon
Decibel Kid - Myke-4 Astor of Calish-Aetia


Draftees

Animal Lad - Ilshu Nor of Lallor
Jenni Quik - Jenni Ognats of Aarok
Galaxy Girl - Shikari Dawnstar of Thanagarrus
Kinetic Kid - Zoe Saugin of Aleph
Reflecto - Stig Ah of Rimbor
Power Lass - Laurel Gand of Daxam
Nemesis Kid - Hart Druiter of Myar
Star Boy - Thom Kallor of Xanthu
Calorie Queen - Taryn Loy of Bismoll
Sensor - Jeka Wynzorr of Orando
Dream Girl - Nura Schappin of Naltor
Gates - Ti'julk Mr'asz of Vyrga


Try-Outs

Princess Projectra - Wilimena Morgana Daergina Annaxandra Projectra Velorya Vauxhall of Gemworld
Sound Sorcerer - Tyroc Stewart of Marzal
Solar Boy - Dirk Morgna of Earth
Light Lass - Ayla Ranzz of Winath
Shadow Lass - Tasmia Mallor of Talok-VII
Karate Kid - Val Armorr of Earth
Automatic Lad - 1-45ENG 'Babbage' of Robotica


Joined Independently

Fortress Lass - Tress Dox of Legion Headquarters
Element Lad - Jan Arrah of Trom
Ultra Boy - Jo Nah of Rimbor
Timber Wolf - Brin Londo of Zuun
Stone Boy - Blok of Dryad
Cloud King - Jacques Foccart of Earth
Polar Boy - Brek Bannin of Tharr
White Witch - Mysa Nal of Tharn
Ferrous Lad - Duglas Nori of Pasnic


The Legion of Takron-Galtos

Ms. Medusa - Sussa Paka of Hardcore Station
Radiation Roy - Roy Travich of Dracksler
Power Ring - Rond Vidar of Earth.

Cool lineup! Looks full to brimming with all sorts of cool personalities.

More and more I'm wishing I had bumped Tenzil up to active status, but I think I'll do that in my next fanfic Volume... I can think of some good stories for getting there...

I'd always recommend Tenzil as a Legionnaire He and Chuck and Luornu and Nura sort of embody the cool weirdness of the Legion in a lot of ways, because their powers take a lot of thought but can really be impressive, and they illustrate the "Everyone has something to contribute, anyone can be a hero" philosophy that I think is really a core tenant of the Legion.

And that's the reason I have... As much as I absolutely stand by the "have fun" philosophy of fan fic writing I do think you get more enjoyment from it when you work at it, especially if the original idea is ridiculous (let's get all the legionnaires with Orange skin and have them battle a cannibalistic alien race with reality warping abilities on a distant world - a ridiculous idea and a (hopefully) good outcome after plotting it out).

You are right Klar, writing is work, but then so is playing a piano or using a paint brush, and from my experience creativity flows better if you enjoy the action of realising it . I think we are saying the same things just from a different angle. Writing a story takes time and effort, so I suggest you try to enjoy it.

Editing is horrible though.

Oh, and even my stick figures look disfigured so anyone who can draw deserves to be canonized. At the very least!

I think we are all in agreement then. Writing, even for "fun" or as a hobby, is hard work. But we have to be sure we enjoy the process, because if we overthink the results will be worse.

I can't draw worth a darn too though Ibdid make these cute devil and vampire figures that I put on any cards I give Blaze...

I can't draw to save my life, so I love seeing the artwork here. I really wish more artists would post their work though. You're all so talented!

This is a great topic, thanks IB! All of us who maintain a regular series here have really different writing styles and different strengths so I love reading stuff like this that gives some insight into the way writers think

I started writing my own fic as an exercise in discipline so that I could apply that to writing my own original comic...hasn't quite worked out that way but my Legion has taken on enough of a life in my imagination that I am more than happy just writing their adventures and seeing how they grow. I picked the team straight after Legion of 3 Worlds (without XS & Gates because as much as I love them it made no sense to me they'd leave their own team behind), and kicked this whole thing off by introducing Infectious Lass to the team because it drove me crazy that DC had referred to her as a member of the team when we'd never seen it.

I have had a few roster changes since then, but no really dramatic shake-ups. For the most part anyone I've added are characters I feel have been around long enough to deserve a place on the team (eg the Subs or Nightwind) or more obscure characters who I felt were ripe for exploration (eg Gas Girl, Dragonmage, Kid Computo). Even the original characters I've introduced to the team have pretty strong ties to Legion lore. I have loads of ideas for completely original characters but for some reason I prefer to keep these for supporting characters or bad guys. I guess with 5YL being my favourite Legion era I'm kind of inspired to see where the classic Legion characters develop when they're given free reign to evolve.

Every character I've had leave the team has been plot or characterisation-driven. I would have loved to keep Sensor Girl and Shadow Lad for example, but their stories led to them not being here for now. I don't really build the team in meta terms very much, I just kind of let the characters write their own stories in my head. For the same reason, as much as I'd love to have Saturn Girl & Lightning Lad be more active they won't really let me do it

One common theme I've noticed a lot of people have brought up is the challenge of writing characters you don't like; I definitely subscribe to this. I traditionally haven't really liked Dawnstar or Timber Wolf but I've forced myself to write them both, and surprisingly I feel like I have a really good handle on them.

Glad you like the topic raz and happy you chimed in, I think you have the longest running series of all of us so curious how you plot out your lineups.

I think you and I agree on the "let characters write their own stories" thing, which is why I myself had to drop Dragonmage and Tenzil from my active lineup and very nearly Dirk. Good thing though is that it does not close the door, only means there are a few more detours needed

I think among us all, Harbinger is the one with the most original Legionnaires (Backlash, Starkling, Dkyun Mu, Thirteen, the newest Karate Kid...) I have the least as I am not that good at creating new ones plus there are so many existing characters I want to use more.

Thanks IB for the topic!

Everyone makes so many valid points such as fun and hard work are both parts of the creative process.

As for how i personally handle my line up choice at first it was fairly easy. I started out with the Legion just after LO3WS and then once they entered U248 they split into two factions. This i would say was still a pretty easy choice. But Like Raz mentioned I also let the characters live in my head and let their story follow where the characters feel the most natural.
My Subterfuge team came together out of the people who would be best suited to living on the lamb so to speak. Invisible Kid,
Dreamer,Gear,Sensor, Chameleon have all been members of the Espionage squad at one time or another so they were all natural choices. Also Dreamer needed to wait for Starboy to leave the hospital. Cosmic Boy was a last minuet addition for this team because i thought a founder should be with this team and he would be the one to make that sacrifice. M'onel was about raw power, as was Wildfire. Karate Kid and Starboy both stayed because I wanted to explore them more outside of the Cadet setting.

And with the Cadets they all just seemed like the types who would volunteer and wanted a good fight, like Ultra Boy.

Once that split happened it now came down to who i wanted to see work with whom. An example is Wildfire and Cos. In the postboot i never really saw them on a mission or interact. I always like seeing different characters that never interacted have to and that's the joy with the Legion, so many combinations to work with.

After personality for me comes power type/ability which can be influenced my mission type. Sometimes i just want to try and work on my handle on how i write their power. Gear is hard for me to write and so in most of his scenes i always try to have him use his power somehow.

Also because i'm working in an alternate reality, where alot of my characters have a counter parts in other realities this gives me both the fun and hard task of making these characters stand out, weather they are an homage or completely different than any other version. But i also don't have a lot of reference from the little i researched. So i sometimes feel like i'm creating new characters.


Lastly with the Cadet Program i don't feel limited at all at the moment, so its becoming a harder process to define whom i'll be writing.

I'm also in need of potential cadets as my Alpha cadets number in the 50's and i only have 37 of the 50.

I hear ya'll on having innate artistic talent and envying those that have it: Bout the only artistic talent I got is futzing around with Microheroes, but it helps give me a rough idea of what I'm going for. And thankfully I know a lot of artistic buddies I can commission.



Dude I love the Cadets; ya'll were talkin about Original Characters earlier and I don't have too many altogether OCs, but I do love picking up pieces of DC/Legion Lore and putting them together to make something new that could really be fun in the 30th Century, and a lot of that ended up in the Cadets I'm working on (Bizzaro Lass and Flynt Brojj as Starro Boy are the two best examples I can think up off the top of my head).

Love reading all these insights! And I agree that the Academy and Cadets give a good opportunity to bring in so many characters that can be developed as potential future Legionnaires.

The academy and the cadets is an inspired idea as it gives us the opportunity to se the potential Legionnaire from the beginning of their career, their relationships and friendships (and rivalries) build up while keeping it all within a controlled environment so hats off to you Omni for it.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I try to keep a mental tally of who I've used recently so I don't repeat them too often, which is difficult to do as there are definite favourites that shout their stories to me ar louder than others. To get around this I tried using a random story generator - I wrote twelve potential plots on paper, scrunched them up, decided which legionnaire was going to be used and then picked a random plot, but I didn't like the results as i had real problems shoehorning the characters into the plotblines so ignored it and went ahead and used my original ideas anyway ... Oh well sometimes hard work really is not worth the effort

I use a checklist too, to make sure everybody gets his/her/its time in the spotlight. I'm not meticulous enough to really make life-changing or earth-shaking changes to each but I do try to explore each character's background and personalities more.

Are you asking for suggestions for new characters?

Heroes of Other Worlds

... and I personally have dozens of characters that I could not possibly write.

Omni, I've got a _huge_ cadet team planned (I wanted to sort of reflect shades of the Threeboot Youth Movement, and for that you need numbers like woah) and one of the ways I went about filling the ranks (after Cadets/Known heroes of the 30th/Secondaries I liked/etc) was find a species or planet not represented in the Legion and work from what was known about them (i.e. a Red Saturnian, or an Atlantean, or member a rep from wherever the Amazons are by the 30th Century) and if you start fiddling with what power you want for them, combining that with their planet/species of origin may give you a good starting point for characterization!