Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11

SLSH 205

Ah, at last a story I haven't read before. Let's go ...

... Well, that was ... fairly average. As everyone else has said this one just drifted along.

So Lana's birthday (good pickup on the 18 candles He Who - I had to go back and count them myself). I wonder what Clark gave her?

Hmm, I'm not sure I would have been as content as Lana's parents, but what you gonna do when Superboy comes a courting?

The art for Lana wrapped in SUperboy's cape was offputting to me. She looked more like a red mummy wrapped in bandages than a cape.

Interesting that the security cell chair is more hi-tech with its energy legs than the single stand wrecked chairs in the communications room. Some sort of security feature?

Jo is a bit monosyllabic isn't he. Nice talk Supes.

Hang on, U-boy ties Supes invulnerable cape around him and crushes him until he passes out?! I have no problem with the strength issue, a bit hand wavy but fine, but the reason people pass out in that situation is that they can't breathe so oxygen doesn't get to their brain, but Supes doesn't need to breathe! I can get that the pressure might be so great that some ribs start to crack or something but there is no reason for him to pass out. Oh well.

"It's a special knot Ultra Boy taught me." Aha! That's the gun over the mantelpiece bit in the plot. We all know Supes is wise to something now. Flying off to a distant planet? Yeah right.

I guess Brainy just brought in the madness drug for gloating purposes (reader exposition anyway) since he wasn't going to use it this time.

Now this is good, Karate Kid taking down Ultra Boy is probably the best part in the whole story and, possibly apart from Brainy and his "diagnosis" (but then that was a fake anyway), the only really appropriate use of any of the legionnaires powers. Everyone else was a placeholder - and yes it does beg the question why Mon-El was controlled.

Ultra-vision goggles. What a handy device to keep around on the off-chance you needed to subdue Ultra Boy. I can't think of any other reason you would have them or any other use. On the other hand wouldn't a whole pile of the Legion's foes like to get their hands on them. OTOH I guess they are rather difficult to use even for this single task since you need to subdue Ultra Boy first to put them on him.

Superboy saves them, what a surprise. I guess being mind-controlled dulled Mon-El's senses so he didn't see Superboy nor hear them talking after the execution. Here's a thought - does the presence of ELtro Gand weaken Mon's mind so he is more susceptible to mind control?

U-boy doesn't know girls? I doubt it. Maybe he is just more used to being in control. Wait, with Tinya as a girlfriend? I take that back. Where is Tinya anyway? Mission I guess. SHe might have been just a bit annoyed to find Jo executed.

You know I actually kind of like Mike Grell's look for the Master. It's good to have a villain who doesn't look like he works out 4 hours a day. Although he does look a bit goofy. Still kudos for trying something different.

Once again a good use of U-boy's one power at a time ability. That has been used well through out the story.

I'm sorry but I do have trouble believing that Superboy can't destroy the helmet with heat vision or knock the Master out with super breath or even snatch the helmet off his head with super speed. We just had an example of how Supes can move faster than sight. Perhaps he is giving Jo a chance to get his own back, since he could instantly telll with his super-senses that he was alright. Or maybe he just likes to listen to villain's monologues.

So I guess it wasn't a bad story and it's nice to read one that's new to me. It's just a bit ho-hum.

stile86 --

Good catch about Superboy not needing to breathe.

You know, for all the appearances Mon-El has put in lately--since he's the leader, of course--he hasn't really used his powers much. Maybe he temporarily lost them at some point and didn't tell anyone. Or maybe he had a tainted dose of anti-lead serum that played havoc with his ability to resist brainwashing. Or maybe . . .

Drat that Eltro.

Ultra-goggles. What prevented Jo from simply closing his eyes?

When I first read the story and saw the splash page, ten-year-old me thought Jo was being executed for wearing the glasses--like he'd become a super-hippy or something! (Hey, it was 1974 in the American Midwest: hippies were as unwelcome as Communists.) Lord knows why I thought Lana was being executed.

Love seeing so many people weigh in! For some reason it seems like a lot of us never read this one before or only managed to when they were wrapping up their collections. It's definitely not a story we've discussed much over the last 15 years, and I can see why.

Superboy & LSH #205

As soon as I saw the cover of #205, I realized I hadn't read this one before! I would have definitely recognized that busty Grell-Lana Lang on the cover! As always it's a unique thrill to read a Legion story for the first time. Too bad for me this one was a bit lackluster.

As with so many Cockrum stories before it, this one is a hard mix of two things: glorious, mesmerizing (Grell) art and a somewhat weak though not terrible plot. Said plot offers little in characterization or twists other than showing how clever Jo, Lana and Superboy are. It also has a bit of a letdown ending win the random, odd looking antagonist who is easily defeated.

Still, the art is gorgeous. Grell is really on top of his game here, and the action feels explosive.

Having never read this story, I was surprised it was an Insect Queen story in an era when Lana appearances were on the decline! Slowly but surely so many Silver Age trappings were leaving the Superman titles and Insect Queen definitely fell into that category. She's used to "okay" effect here by her clever last minute save of Jo, but for the most part she's under-utilized and in peril.

One thing I liked is that it's confirmed at last that Jo's membership was right after Superboy. I know during this era there was rampant speculation over when Jo and Thom joined among the fanzine fandom.

Overall I didn't love the issue though I didn't hate it. It was just a bit run of the mill.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to see the innuendo! I'm somewhat surprised that it was you who pointed it out, though, Mr. "I never thought of Anti-Lad's head looking like a penis or a butt until I joined this board".

One thing that hasn't been mentioned thus far is the kind of questionable nature of our villain's plan. He was going to take them off to an isolated planet and mind-control them into humping like rabbits in order to eventually spawn over generations a super-powered army. It's hard not to see this rather wimpy looking alien using this whole scheme as an excuse to get his fap on while basically creating his own porn featuring the galaxy's most desirable young adults. On the other hand, you could see the Legionnaires secretly not having too big a problem with it, as this might be what they would do all the time if they weren't burdened with that pesky constant saving of the universe thing.

But seriously, when it was revealed the Legionnaires were being mind-controlled, I (having also not read this one before) got excited and was thinking "Universo!" Imagine my disappointment....

BTW, was this the first appearance of Jo's long sideburns/near mutton-chops? If so, I approve, Mr. Grell! The look works really well for Jo and will endure in the interim when I first meet him during the Levitz/Giffen run. In addition to the iconic costume changes, the varying of hairstyles and facial hair are also welcome changes. Ironically, Jo's costume is one of the few to remain unchanged during this era.

Overall, though, another story that shows DC's reluctance to move completely out of the Silver Age. The gimmicky cover and interior fake-out are exactly the kinds of things you would expect from the supposedly by-gone era. Though I liked seeing her, even Lana's reprise as Insect Queen marks the story as another throwback. Despite having some great artists, it's clear that Cary Bates wasn't exactly going to be the one to bring the stories up to their par.

And, of course, I guess the Legionnaires would have been laboring on their sex planet to this day if not for the timely arrival of Superboy.

That would be the earth-16 Legion

Not Earth-69?

Not going there

(well, except for a vacation, maybe)

Maybe I'm just very selective in my dirty mind.




The whole sex slaves plan reminded me of the Talosians' similar plot on the Star Trek episode "The Cage" (refashioned into "The Menagerie," for those keeping up with the Star Trek review thread). I wouldn't be surprised if "The Master" found the Legionnaires unattractive--different species and all--and truly wanted them just to create a super-powered army. Of course, since he was the last of his race, who knows how desperate he might be.

(There's that dirty mind again!)

Superboy 205

This is a first time read for me. On the splash, Visi Lad I is wearing some cool shades, while Lana looks be enjoying martyrdom a bit too much.

Mon El has been such a cranky pain in the rear, since I joined re reads, that it would be him leading the execution on the cover. Eltro’s really going off the deep end in there.

I wonder when they put in the panel showing us that Lana had asked her parents, before flying off with a Superboy appearing suggestively at her window. There’s a writer that knows what won’t get past the editor…although later…

Wrapped in Superboy’s cape, Lana thinks she’s off to the future. Actually, he wrapped her up like a mummy to drop her off in ancient Egypt. No more pesky attempts to find out Clark’s identity from her.

There was a satisfying shift in gears, when it was revealed that Ultra Boy was the only member of the Legion who wasn’t mad.
Brainy’s experiments with madness drugs. as well as being mind controlled here, are the latest things to build up to later events…

But there was a lot of plot forcing to make it work. There’s no reasonable explanation as to why Jo was immune. If this was TMK’s run people would be screaming favouritism :) Ultra Boy is considered to be too powerful for the villain to influence. But Mon El isn’t?

The glasses that force Jo to use one power are too convenient, and are never seen again. Jo is irrational and insane, but cognisant enough to think of a nonverbal tip off to Superboy. Lana’s sting switch is a bit of a fudge too.

And in typical “it all has to work out” Bates fashion, Superboy *has* to guess the symbolism behind the knot, link it to current events and nip back for an unconvincing save. Unconvincing, because the blast was enough to give readers flattened wooden poles, but not to have harmed the people strapped to them.

The villain was visually distinctive, possibly to offset the standard all powerful-all immortal super villain template. His plan to breed a group of super-teens for a few hundred years is a bit different for the Legion. It’s a far cry from the stolen kisses when the Murrans were about to invade.

I am reminded of one of the early ones, where Supergirl’s Legion were supposed to be the kids of Superboy’s Legion (did I remember that correctly?)

But 300 years from this story, Earth is attacked by Backwards Boy, Drooling Damsel and the Incredible Inbred in a very short lived invasion attempt.

I don’t think I’ve seen the villain anywhere before or since. He’s a bit of a one shot, made to order, character.

Superboy’s “you’re out of your sick mind” expression on page 19 tells you everything you need to know about the Master and his plan. And Superboy’s seen a lot of weird stuff.

Speaking of weird, it’s always good to see the 18 year old Insect Queen. She was fairly involved with the story too. Her presence of mind, even when it was being controlled allowed Jo to take the villain’s mind control device away. Her “killing” of Jo and Superboy’s sad expression might have given a few readers a shock too. An early DC comic of mine had a similar scene and that was certainly powerful to me.

Grell’s art was impressive here. The elaborate Cockrum backdrops may have gone, but Grell gives enough futuristic detail to establish the scene and focus attention on the action.

Lana’s attack on Jo looked creepy. Poor Jo being beaten by Karate Kid was also a stand out moment. He even blocks Jo's surprise assault. Nice touch. Karate Kid seemed especially pleased to be on the firing squad too.

Exactly.

Whoa I completely missed that. Had to go back and find the reference. Good pickup and nice to see the continuity.

That is perhaps the one thing that stands out in this story, that Jo Nah's actions, speech and abilities are entirely consistent with his background and past stories.

I was going to say that every male has had the sideburns since Cockrum's start although they are more obvious with Grell. It was the 70's after all when they were the in thing. I've seen photos of my dad from back then and I shudder. Then I thought Paladin would have noticed that so I had another look - and you're right. Jo's sideburns are much more pronounced than anyone else's and it is a good look on him. Interestingly they rather resemble the sideburns on Mike Grell's self portrait in this issue. Maybe he's a U-boy fan?

You do remember correctly. In the first story with Supergirl the legionnaires said they were the children of the original legionnaires that Superboy met. This was the usual confusion with time travel. Supergirl is from Superman's time, the next generation, so when she travels to the future the same amount of time supposedly had passed there and she met the legion's next generation. This is corrected in the next story but crops up again and again to a lesser extent with Superboy and Supergirl often having to leave so they aren't late getting back to the 20th Century.

LOL! This was a great comment! The imagery it put in my head!

SLSH 206

Haunted Story

Even though I only read this story a couple of years ago I couldn't remember how it was going to pan out. Should have guessed they were clones.

First we have to accept once again the "personal continual timeline" theory of time travel i.e. this Ferro Lad and Invisible Kid have to be from after their deaths since experientially it is after for Superboy. They can't be earlier versions of them (who wouldn't know about their deaths - big mouth there Superboy) because it would be crossing Superboy's timeline or some such. Of course the real reason is that Cary Bates didn't think of that as many writers don't.

(Aside: I wonder if the Legion can sue Mike Grell for giving them all serious groin injury from continually stretching their legs out to either side? They also seem to have been stretched lengthwise - some of them are extremely tall in this issue.)

Ok so the two dead heroes have demonstrated their powers - although I wonder how Ferro Lad built up such speed and momentum - roll an iron ball at running speed into a wall and I guess you'll get a crunch but knock down a wall? Also I'm not sure why it was important to catch the parachutist while invisible except to demonstrate his power.

Nice of Superboy to only use his Xray vision on their bodies so Ferro Lad isn't embarrased about his face.

Cue convenient robot menace. At least this is explained at the end.

The battle with the robot was pretty reasonable demonstrating courage, ingenuity and teamwork, all important attributes for a legionnaire. Invisibility enabled Lyle to slip out of the energy ring? I guess it was visually cued.

So back they go and bang! Boy I sure wouldn't want to be near a clone at the end of 48 hours.

OK time for second suspension of disbelief. 30th century tech must be pretty good to a) create full grown clones (or at least legion aged clones) without waiting for the normal passage of time; b) create acquired powers like Invisible Kid's (Ferro was a mutant so his genes would work); c) most significantly imbuing the clones with their source person's attitude, beliefs and personality. I know, I know, the same thing has been done countless times in comics. So just because someone else gets it wrong the Legion has to as well? Oh go stick your head in a text book while I go back to enjoying the story.

Ooh ooh! Now I know where the Dominators got those cell samples to create the clones of the Legion in 5YL! Oh wait, they weren't clones after all but time split copies by Rokk/TimeTrapper. Oh well.

You know if I was a legionnaire I'd be pretty happy that the cloning doesn't work or some day some dastardly villain might have me facing a dozen Superboys or Mon-Els or Ultra Boys. Can you imagine the headaches a dozen Saturn Girls could give, even if they could only last for 48 hours?n Still they keep enough world-destroying equipment already.

That time-phone is pretty useful and could be much more useful. Bet we never see it again.

Finally problem 3 - all through the first part of the story Superboy is thinking, not just saying, but thinking his disbelief and confusion about the two dead legionnaires. Yet at the end we find out that he knew about it all along - or at least long enough to create the robot before they turned up in his secret basement. So is he thinking these things just in case one of the clones has somehow developed telepathy? Obviously written to fool the reader but doesn't really work with the ending - unless Superboy is breaking the fourth wall?

Well after all these negatives I have to say that I didn't mind the story too much. As a demonstration and tribute to the character of the two dead heroes it works pretty well and was a nice little entertaining story.

Second story

Featurette is right. Even though the first story was only 13 pages, this one is only 7. Not much of anything happening here, except a demonstration of the dangers of a super-powered young adult who isn't in full control of their powers. Maybe those other universe super-power-registration people have an idea.

Of course the main purpose is to reinforce the Karate Kid-Projectra relationship and this does that well. It's a nice fairly pointless little love story. It'll do.

Stile86, I am leading these discussions for the time being, so in the future please wait until after I have posted my review.

I will be posting my review this evening.

SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES 206

1st Story: There's more than a little irony in bringing Ferro Lad and Invisible Kid back to life -- the issue is cover-dated Jan./Feb. 1975, which puts this comic over a decade ahead of the curve; but when it anticipates the infamous return of Jean Grey over at Marvel in the mid-1980s, that's not something to be proud of. And, yes, the Legionnaires did indeed bring their two dead comrades back to life, by using cell samples they had stored in order to create clones. Problem is, the clones self-combust after only 48 hours. But guess what -- the Legionnaires have cell samples of all their members, and someday they hope to create clones that last. And finally, when we discover at the end that Superboy was in-the-know the whole time, the whole story feels like a pointless waste of paper, ink, and paint. Even Grell seems to be slacking here, not that I blame him when the script he had to work from was this weak. Wisely, this plot thread was never followed up on.

2nd Story: Now, here, Grell seems to be giving it his all, as he gets a chance to showcase his talents for medieval pageantry by drawing what appears to be the surface of Princess Projectra's homeworld of Orando, which turns out to (mostly) be a case of Jeckie's own power working against her. I've never been a big fan of pre-Sensor-Girl Jeckie, and this story reminded me why that is -- she almost always seemed to end up in some kind of helpless distress which someone, usually Karate Kid, had to rescue her from. I've never been a big fan of Karate Kid, either, but I had forgotten (blocked out of my mind) that he comes off in this story like a completely selfish, hot-headed jerk and, to add insult to injury, he slaps Jeckie in the face to shock her back into reality. Amazingly, this story was NOT written by Jim Shooter (he wouldn't return until S&tLSH 209), but it's the beginning of an ugly anti-female streak which ran through the Legion for a while, culminating in the infamous Ayla/Rokk scene in S&tLSH 215; and in S&tLSH 207, Lightning Lad goes so far as to shove Violet out of his way. Effed up symptoms of an effed up decade.

The "clone bank" that the Legionnaires had in storage was indeed followed up on, sort of. Around the time that the SW6 batch of Legionnaires appeared, Mon-El, er Valor, found evidence that the Dark Circle had stolen those cells and created an entire group of alternate Legionnaires. The question was which group was real and which were clones? They never did answer that one, since later writers decided that both groups were legit due to some temporal manipulations by one or another version of the Time Trapper. It was all quite messy by that point, hence the reboot.

What bothers me most about the first story is this: A cardinal rule of fiction writing is that, no matter how much you stretch the imagination, you MUST maintain an internal consistency within your story. Cary Bates violates this rule in the worst way. Superboy clearly is in the dark about the true nature of the two clones, as evidenced by his own thought balloons. The two panels at the end of the story are a direct contradiction of this, however. Bad, bad writing.

Mike Grell's art, on the other hand, is just plain nice to look at. I especially enjoyed his depiction of Invisible Kid as well as the various medieval settings and characters in the second story.

One final observation: #206 was the last bi-monthly issue, indicating that sales were strong enough to increase frequency of publication. I can't help but think the upsurge in the Legion's popularity was in spite of Cary Bates' scripting rather than because of it. I shudder to think how things might have gone if not for Dave Cockrum and Mike Grell.

Superboy 206

As nice as Cardy’s covers are, there’s something about the colouring for the Legion that seems to pitch them for a younger audience. Certainly compared to the Titans ones. He’s still someone who’s work leaps out after all these years.

There’s not a lot of background in this one. That’s to draw your attention to the two deceased Legionnaires. But when I first read this, I didn’t really have any connection to those two, so it was possibly a bit wasted on me. Looking at it now, I’m struck at just how merciless the robot looks, in an Alan Davis’ Fury sort of way.

We saw fairly little of Ferro Lad, so it’s interesting to see him in action demolishing a building. Good use of the Flight Ring with his powers too. Fortunately, Superboy is too shocked by the sight of Ferro Lad to actually think of investigating. It’s touching to note how much he feels towards all of the Legionnaires.

From his PJs to the walk to school, it’s an older teen Superboy these days. Soon, he will cast off the Superboy name to become…Nightwing…um Flamebird? …um…

If two people appeared in a time bubble appeared, I probably wouldn’t want to tell them I’d been further into the future and tell them how they died. But Superboy has always had problems getting his head around time travel.

The story is basically one big set up. Both of the “deceased” heroes are clones. The robot turns out to be a fake test, making all of Clark’s previous responses very strange.

Sitting alone in his basement, he wonders about their appearance and whether he should contact the Legion. Then he knows enough to have created a fake threat and reveal that he’s already been contacted from the future. Something else else doesn’t add up. Neither does being able to use invisibility to get around energy traps. Perhaps Bates confused his power with Tinya’s?

You do wonder about the short life of the clones. How much did they know about their return? They didn’t seem shocked to be told they had died. But they were coy as to how they came back and claimed that their own team didn’t know about their return. Rather than contact the Legion, they take a Time Bubble into the past for a training mission. That would seem to suggest they feel quite lost and isolated.

If they are as close to the originals as shown, you’d have thought a trip to see a twin brother might have been in order for Nolan. Lyle would have been a bit confused trying to contact Myla only to find her already with his own ghost. Cue identity crisis.

There’s a certain coldness about a Legion that brings its own dead back as a test run, and keeps distant from them. Judging by the pair’s return to the future, they are also completely unaware of their time limit.

As a result of the above plot issues, the story lacks any real punch. There's a premise and a final panel, with the rest padded in between.

The big payoff from this issue (apart from influencing the Darkman movie) would appear in the TMK run. This issue provided the basis for the cloned Legionnaires that would feature there.

It was combined with the Dark Circle’s cloning attempts from other issues. The result was a huge number of characters in each issue, but there was a lot of potential in the ideas (even though I’m fairly glad that the big planned reveal from it never got to happen).

Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't think a lot about that particular era, so it's easy for a detail like that to slip my mind.



Agreed. Somebody was asleep at the wheel, and I suspect it was Boltinoff.



IMO Bates had his moments, but most of them were with Cockrum. The chemistry just wasn't there with Grell. Ironically, Grell says he enjoyed working with Bates, but did not enjoy working with Shooter, even though I think most of the good Grell stories came from Shooter.

Yes, I feel the Legionnaires came off very badly in this story.

Two kind of creepy stories.

"Effed up symptoms of an effed up decade."

I don't know if it was the decade so much as something else? It was for most appearances, a progressive decade. Maybe not enlightened but for the most part, we still aren't. But progressive it was.

206/Haunted

I agree with all of the comments so far, regarding the pros and cons of this story. The plot is indeed flawed and too convenient. Yet as an action story it holds up quite well, and it pulls on all the right heart strings.

As a young reader, I delighted in seeing Invisible Kid again and related to his desire to prove himself as a Legionnaire. The was one of the first times I was exposed to Ferro Lad, so I enjoyed meeting him and seeing what he could do. (His power is shown to be far more interesting and effective here than it was during most of his few Adventure appearances.) I thrilled for the two Legionnaires as they approached the HQ, ready to surprise their comrades with their return. I felt a horrible shock when they were cheated out of that moment.

Many of these same emotions return every time I re-read this story.

A few things do bug me, however. One has to do with the story-telling convention DC employed of having a "shock" cover and a "shock" splash page--both of which reveal that the two Legionnaires are dead. By the time Superboy gets around to telling us this in the story, we already know it so the Big Reveal is lost. (Perhaps this story was written for readers with extremely short attention spans.)

Of course, if you were a long-time Legion fan, as many were, you knew Lyle and Andrew were dead, anyway, but suspension of disbelief would have allowed me to play along once. Not three times, though.

The other thing that bothers: In the panel of Lyle's demise, Tharok's robot brain is missing. Sure, the object in Lyle's hand might have confused readers who hadn't read 203, but I think most could have figured out that it was somehow important or glossed over it. In any case, "revisionist" history bugs me.

LOL

More proof that this story was ahead of the curve...in a bad way.

206/Daughter

Again, I pretty much agree with the comments made so far. Val is a selfish jerk, but at least he follows Jeckie to apologize. And what's with the slap? Was there no other way to wake her up?

Also again, the story works for me if I put myself in Jeckie's shoes (er, cape) and experience the story from her perspective. She goes home because she hasn't seen her family in two years and, when she arrives, she finds her worst fears confirmed: Her parents have been deposed and an evil king now controls their fate. This part of the story stokes the right emotions.

The story also has a bit of a fairy tale quality to it as Jeckie is forced to go alone to meet the Morgu. I think it would have been fascinating if the Morgu hadn't turned out to be such a monster after all. If Jeckie had used her power to somehow win it over to her side, we could have had a "things are not what they appear" story. This would have fit in nicely with her power.

However, Jeckie is too passive when the knights take away her flight ring. One would expect her to use her Legion training (Val must have taught her some moves) to resist, whether she could use her illusions or not.

But at least Jeckie gets to save Val at the end. Coincidentally, Dream Girl saved Val back in 201, so it's interesting that the Legion's primary action hero keeps getting saved by women. (A third woman will come to his rescue in 209.) Maybe it was a progressive decade, after all.

Oops! Very sorry Fanfic, I didn't realise. Won't happen again.