Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities My Big-Ass Pile o'Trades Waiting To Be Read At My Whim

While I didn't "hate it" like Dave, my general feelings towards the Watchman movie are closer to Dave's than Lardy's. Since just about forever, I've felt that Watchman shouldn't be made into a film and has no business being translated as such; the movie only made me confirm that feeling.

Dave's first point, about Snyder simply not getting it, and--whether intentionally or not--infusing the narrative with his own misinterruption of the story is present throughout the whole thing. The second point on the violence, was one I didn't quite register when I saw it, but now that it's been pointed out to me, I have to say that its dead-on.

I have reread Watchman about 20 times over the years, and when I was a teenager, I probably read it half of those times. I've always loved it. And I can't wait to reread it again. But I have no desire to watch the movie again.

...

On the flip side, I actually enjoy the V for Vendetta movie a great deal. It's definitely not the same as the original source material because so much of it has been removed or changed. Dave mentions the major glaring part element, the commentary on anarchy (and any reader of Bleeding Cool knows Rich Johnston goes at great lengths to remind us again and again how an ending with everyone wearing the same mask isn't reflective of anarchy).

But taken as it is, especially the updates of the political POV's of the 00's, it is actually a very powerful and well crafted movie. It contains amazing performances by Hugo Weaving, Natalie Portman, John Hurt, Stephen Rea and others.

It's not exactly Moore's V for Vendetta, but its IMO a very good film, bordering on being a great film because of those things.

Btw, prompted by our recent conversation, I finally read the latest Captain Nemo story today. And I think it might just be the best of the bunch. Phenomenal from start to finish, it was full of adventure, fun, great characters and in typical Alan Moore fashion, odd humor and deeply poignant moments. Absolutely loved it.

I feel that V is lacking for pretty much the reasons that you and Dave mention for Watchmen That lack of voice from the other characters that give you an inkling to the wider misery and desperate despair of the nation.

While Watchmen is geared for another medium, I thought it did keep the main twist that the heroes could no longer be true to their supposed ideals if they told the world what Adrian had done. But I do see why you'd feel the same way about that as I do about V. Perhaps I was just impressed at how much they had kept that it overshadowed what had been dropped for me.

Are they standalone, Cobie, or is the experience better reading them in order?



And hey--has anyone read his Lost Girls with Melinda Gebbie? It seems unique among everything he's done with it being "erotic fiction". I'm curious for more than just the obvious reasons.....

I have not read Lost Girls. Something else else about the premise just does not sit right with me. I don't believe in censoring artists, especially those as talented as Moore and Gebbie, but sometimes I choose to simply ignore works that might offend even my jaded sensibilities.

The only Lost Girls I read were a few of the serialized bits in Taboo (what a great anthology that was). It's.... interesting. In many ways a proto-LoEG in taking public domain characters into an adult shared universe, except of course this is a different kind of "Adult". What I read had some standard Moore narrative layering and double meanings galore. I hear the completed work is much more controversial as there are some scenes with the women at much younger ages.

Lardy, the Nemo stories are all stand alone but I recommend you read them in order, as that gives it a little extra "oomph". There are always callbacks to earlier events and characters, many of them very subtle and easily missable if you haven't read the earlier stories.

They're all really great too.

I thought so. I might be getting a bargain on the third one (put in a "best offer"), which is why I asked. If I get it, well, I'm a patient man, so I can wait until I get the other two to read.

BTW, I noticed LXG: Black Dossier is actually set after the first Century book. I wonder if reading Century 1910 before Black Dossier and then reading the other two Century books might be an alternative way to read the series? (I've got Black Dossier on the way, so reading these soon is a real possibility, especially with all this Moore talk fueling me! )

Moore's had a number of other things from Avatar as well. One I can recall seeing advertised was something called Courtyard, which a search shows also has Lovecraftian elements like Neonomicon and the upcoming Providence. I know there have been others, as well...all fairly short pieces, iirc.

You probably could it in that order, without any problems. To be honest, I'm having a hard time remembering the Black Dossier other than the structure of it. I read it when I came out years ago when I was on vacation, and it was at a time when I so preoccupied with other things, like getting married, that I might not have really absorbed it all. I know I liked it at the time.

Definitely you need to read 1910 before the other Centuries but also the Nemo books, as the Nemo story really starts there.

Reading Century before Black Dossier will spoil a significant ending reveal of Dossier (especially the text background piece).

Pile UPDATE (5/17/15).....

Currently Reading
Avengers Omnibus Vol. 1

Recently Read
Tales of the Batman: Gene Colan Vol. 1

To-Read Pile (new stuff since last time in bold)
Marvel Masterworks: The Defenders Vols. 3 & 4
Mage Vol. 2: The Hero Defined
Legion Archives Vol. 9 (for the Re-reading project...yeah, I know. )
West Coast Avengers Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Jinx
Goldfish
Fantastic Four by John Byrne Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Scout Vol. 2
Frank Miller's Ronin Deluxe Edition
Marvel Masterworks: Iron Fist Vol. 1
Spider-Man by Roger Stern Omnibus
Marvel Masterworks: Silver Surfer Vol. 1
Iron Man by Michelinie, Layton & Romita, Jr. Omnibus
Tales of the Batman: Len Wein
Murder Me Dead (David Lapham)
Stray Bullets Uber Alles Edition
Amazing Spider-Man: The Original Clone Saga
Daredevil by Frank Miller & Klaus Jansen Omnibus
Grimjack Omnibus Vol. 2
Jon Sable: Freelance Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Avengers Omnibus Vol. 2
Secret Six Vol. 1: Villains United
Underwater Welder
Marvel Masterworks: Doctor Strange Vol. 6
LXG: Black Dossier
Lost Girls Vols 1-3
Flex Mentallo
Nemo: Heart of Ice

On the Way
Orion by Walt Simonson Omnibus

So I should read it in publication order: Dossier, Century, Nemo?

YAY!



DOUBLE YAY!

Yes, that should be the order.

Makes sense, being that that was the release order! Like I said, what made me consider an alternate reading order was the fact that, in the timeline at least, Part One of Century takes place before Dossier.

I'm curious about Nemo (btw, flipping thru "Heart of Ice", it's FUCKING GORGEOUS!!! ) as to where it relates on the timeline. My uninformed guess is that it takes place around, between or even after the events of Century? (Keep in mind that I've yet to read a lick of any of these three LXG projects.) Again, this won't affect my reading order, but I'm curious.

Speaking of all the Moore projects we've discussed, you guys will notice that I have indeed purchased the controversial Lost Girls books by Moore and Melinda Gebbie. Curiosity got the better of me, and I couldn't pass up the terrific deal I got for the set on eBay. I think, in the end, I'll give anything written fully by Moore (as opposed to some work of Moore's in another medium adapted by another writer, as is the case with a lot of the Avatar books, I've discovered) a chance unless it's just universally panned. Lost Girls being controversial because of its subject matter and graphic sexual imagery is not something that would dissuade me. In the end, if a writer as gifted as Moore wants to explore sexuality, then I want to see what he has to say.

All that being said, I've flipped through the books, and they are every bit as overtly sexual (some would say "pornographic") as its reputation. In fact, it's not technically in the physical "Pile" because I can't risk my kids stumbling across it. But the art is lush and quite beautiful and the colors just stunning.

We'll see how it goes when I eventually read the thing, but the sex is not an automatic disqualifier for me. I mean, it's well known that pretty much all violence in cinema is pretty much okay for an "R" rating while a degree of sex, even tastefully done, risks the dreaded "NC-17" rating that will kill a film's box office if it isn't cut out or curbed to a certain line.

Knowing my/Lardy's reputation, I'm afraid some will think I'm reading it for my own sexual gratification. I want to see what Moore has to say and if it's as worth saying as the more violent subject matter he's known for and praised for to some extent. Again, the double standard as with the movies. A book like Sex Criminals has challenged my perception of what a comic book can do with its frankness and humorous take on sex as subject matter. It's freaking GREAT, and if Lost Girls can approach any of the truth inherent in that book's fearlessness in whatever way it decides to do so, then it will be a worthy read.

Or it may be the worst drivel ever put on paper. Who knows? When I finally do read it, I'll do what I always do--tell you what I think. If it's utter crap, I'll tell ya! If it's mediocre or transcendent, I'll tell ya as well!

Which reminds me....I'm waaaaaaaay behind on my reviews of stuff I've read recently! Mea culpa! But trust yer ol' pal Lardy--I'll get to 'em!

Looking forward to the reviews.

It'll be interesting to read a review of Lost Girls Lardy. It passed me by at the time. I only heard about it from a couple of comments. They didn't take kindly to it. I think this was mainly due to the source material for the characters being perceived as for younger readers. And the graphic content no doubt.

I've got Moore's work on things like Yuggoth Culture, The Courtyard etc somewhere unread. I'm not at all sure why I never got round to reading them. Perhaps I had read the first couple of issues of Crossed from Avatar by then. Perhaps it's the Lovecraft connections that aren't generally done that well.

Pile UPDATE (6/13/15).....

Currently Reading
Marvel Masterworks: Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 8

Recently Read
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century (all three vols.)
Marvel Masterworks: Amazing Spider-Man Vols. 5, 6 & 7

To-Read Pile (new stuff since last time in bold)
Marvel Masterworks: The Defenders Vols. 3 & 4
Mage Vol. 2: The Hero Defined
Legion Archives Vol. 9
West Coast Avengers Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Jinx
Goldfish
Fantastic Four by John Byrne Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Scout Vol. 2
Frank Miller's Ronin Deluxe Edition
Marvel Masterworks: Iron Fist Vol. 1
Spider-Man by Roger Stern Omnibus
Marvel Masterworks: Silver Surfer Vol. 1
Iron Man by Michelinie, Layton & Romita, Jr. Omnibus
Tales of the Batman: Len Wein
Murder Me Dead (David Lapham)
Stray Bullets Uber Alles Edition
Amazing Spider-Man: The Original Clone Saga
Daredevil by Frank Miller & Klaus Jansen Omnibus
Grimjack Omnibus Vol. 2
Jon Sable: Freelance Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Avengers Omnibus Vol. 2
Secret Six Vol. 1: Villains United
Underwater Welder
Marvel Masterworks: Doctor Strange Vol. 6
Lost Girls Vols 1-3
Flex Mentallo
Nemo: Heart of Ice
Orion by Walt Simonson Omnibus
Nemo: Roses of Berlin
Shaman's Tears (Mike Grell)
Howard the Duck Omnibus
Star Wars: The Original Marvel Years Omnibus Vol. 2

On the Way
Silver Surfer (current series) Vol. 2: Worlds Apart
Essential Amazing Spider-man Vol. 5

Ooh, latter-day LoEG and Romita-era Spider-Man! There's a lot of goodness there. Looking forward to the reviews, Lardy.

Certainly is a lot of goodness! I just wish I could find the TIME to do those reviews and for the rest of the backlog I've been building up!

I can say one thing about the conclusion of Century: I enjoyed it more than you did and was surprised that that particular high-profile modern property made it in!

And about the Romita era of ASM: I was a bit stunned by how little of Romita's run featured his full pencils. More surprising was how consistent the art looked despite this!

Re: Lardy reviews, as the saying goes, a taste of honey is better than none at all.

Re: LoEG Century, that property turning out to be the Big Bad made perfect thematic sense, to the point where even though I'm a fan of it, I can see exactly where Moore is coming from. That's real writing talent.

Re: Romita-era ASM, he was, by his own admission, not a happy camper during his ASM run and kept hoping Stan would put him back on Daredevil. That the quality of his work was so consistently good shows what a trouper and what a professional Romita was.

Aw, thanks...



I'm certainly a fan of the property in question, but I never mind different takes on things I like if there's some skill involved. I like how Moore uses that property and another one in particular, so it's clear who and what it is to the reader. But it's vague enough to avoid legal entanglements,



Hm. Romita intros several of the Masterworks editions and has nothing but nice things to say about his time on ASM. In fact he laments not having had more time to draw a lot more on the book because he had so many other responsibilities within the Bullpen.

I think that probably the main thing Romita improves over Ditko is the distinctive redesigns/tweaks he does on Peter and much of the supporting cast. Ditko was much more of an innovator and designer overall, but Romita excelled in bringing out the humanity in the non-costumes, something which, I'm sure, owes a lot to his history doing romance comics.