Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's talk about LSH #8 (potential spoilers aplenty)...

I am really enjoying this series and feel a little guilty about criticizing. However to paraphrase Homer Simpson, its not only easy to criticize, its fun too. So lets start:

The immaturity of so many of the team is starting to wear thin. So Element Lad is gonna side with Brainy's team because Cos called him pseudointellectual? Jo goes into bezerker mode because he's called a jerkwit? And then they are all gonna fight each over it? While the fate of billions of sentients around the universe is at risk? There may be more to these teenager's motivations but we haven't seen much of it. Hopefully the one thing to come out of this story arc is some growth in responsiblity and maturity among them. It may be accurate to represent a teenager this way (no offense meant to those of you out there under 20) but that don't mean I like it much.

I dont think either Brainy or Cos should lead this team. I'd see Saturn Girl being a much better leader than these two.

Two minor quibbles:
(1) I kinda like that Element Lad's powers have been decreased a little bit but if he actually has to touch something to transmute it why does he wear gloves? Do his gloves transumte for 60 seconds too or are they made from unstable molecules? :rolleyes: Well that wouldn't make much sense.

(2) For at least the 2nd time, we see in the roll call that Colossal Boy is from Earth. But I thought he is from a race of giants? Was he kldding? Is there a race of giants on Earth in the 31st c.? Of course the roll also said that Lightning Lad was from Trom a few back. These are editorial lapses really, right?

i enjoyed the writing this issue. things built in tension. different characters points of view were clear. too bad Barry didn't draw this issue though. he would've captured alot more of the subtlety and the characters wouldn't have come off quite so hysterical.
i find it odd that Cos is more worried about Brainy than he is Lemnos. Lemnos must be influencing him. that's also how Lemnos knew that Cos was breaking into the lab while he was fighting Brainy on Colu. Why there seems to be no real reason for the break-in, and why Cos is such a dick. maybe his freudian slip about "controlling" Sun Boy is a clue that Cos is being manipulated by Lemnos. (not to mention the still very wrong brown hair color! that's just not Cos!)
what was Brainy's "tak" on the computer during their talk? similar to his message to his self about Colu 2 issues ago, perhaps he suspects Lemnos' hand in Cos' behavior.
i'm waiting for the more level-headed legionnaires to say enough is enough. i guess that's what Sun Boy is doing in a way. Nice to see that Projectra has friends on the team, interesting that it's Light Lass since they both have dated Lone Wolf. i'm still betting that Orando's distruction is an illusion of Projectra's, hence the still full bank accounts. looking forward to more answers sooner rather than later...

I wonder if Projectra has gained the presence of the spirits of her people who will somehow inhabit others and make them see what they want them to see? Wasn't it the spirits of her ancestors that amped her to Sensor Girl? Or am I confusing her with Shady?

Too tired to comment further, I'll be back at the weekend with my thoughts.

a few things:

-Lyle is in the roll call, but nowhere to be found in the issue. i think this is deliberate. if he is working for Rokk, i suspect that he was tailing him into Brainy's lab when Rokk powered his way through the forcefield. I don't have last issue handy to see if Lyle was in the group that broke into the lab - if he was, i suppose he could have just stayed there to spy on Brainy's reaction - the whole break-in being more of a case of misdirection to gauge Brainy's response?

Then again, other places where Lyle could be sneaking around include the SP HQ, spying on his dad for Rokk or for Brainy.

Basically, I think Lyle was in the issue somewhere invisibly, and we'll know where exactly in coming issues.

-Gim is still listed as being from Earth. i don't think this is an editorial mistake - if so, they would have caught it after the last time. i think the files will be revealed to be SP files or something like that, or Gim's people reside on Earth, immigrants from their original planet.

-the pirate reference by Jan plus the the pirate's recognition of Jan as a Trommite. this can be read in many ways of course, but to me it seemed that the pirate didn't expect a Trommite because there aren't Trommites left, possibly for the same reason as in the preboots. I don't think Garth is really a Trommite (lending more credence to the idea that the roll call have deliberate mistakes in them and thus are an outsider's files)

-Jeckie. the veil is a good nod to Sensor Girl. if she has absorbed all of the spirits of the dead Orando, that would be a bit too much like versions of Tasmia in the past. But I can see it more like her having to prematurely take on the burden of her powers when she wasn't ready - she probably was supposed to be an adult and train for assuming the throne/powers. I hope they don't use the goofy Princess Projectra name - if Orando is gone, she's not really a Princess anymore - and call her Sensor Girl (she seems to have a stylized S on her belt i think?)

-the legion budget. As much as I hope this is RJ Brande, I wonder if it is Lemnos. But why? Is he just toying with them?

-where is Vi? let's assume she has been around, under our noses the whole time. I'd assume she was more on Rokk's side - he seems to be in with the Espionage Squad. Where can she have been that we haven't noticed. Ideas?

Okay, so I gots my issue now... and I thought Dream Girl was fighting Saturn Girl. At least, that's kinda what it looked like to me. Or maybe she was fighting Lyle, since she could see where he was with her premenitions or something...?

I'm really interested to see what happens with Projectra who is easily one of my favorites of the 3boot (I must have a thing for platinum hair). And I would like some clarificatin about who's on which side.

And dude. I really, really liked this issue. It was bomb man. Like, everything exploded and stuff... and, like, yeah. Craziness.

I have to say that the best part for me was seeing Cos #1 use his powers and #2 fight against Brainy. I thought maybe Brainy was all... freaked out by what happened on Colu at first, but... yeah no.

I have to admit that I'm not entirely surprised how the lines got drawn (I just had to think about old issues and who were the better friends and whatnot) but it was sad to see it all out there on the splash page.

...yeah. Okay. Random. I missed Barry's art a lot. (Mostly because I'm still new to the Legion and it made distinguishing some of the guys kinda hard.) Element Lad did make me happy though. Pseudointelligent indeed.

Also, did I miss Cham or was he not there??

I have a question/comment on the scene when Light Lass goes to see Projectra. Is she peeling away curtains that aren't really there in the third panel?

That's what the coloring effect looks like to me.

did the dialogue seem off to anyone else? seemed kinda genric...or unrelated to the images.

i hate cos, hes so self involved, paranoid, a megalomaniac.

i like brainy's faction better, even if he did act like a baby too.

i usually am bored with team fights itself issues but this time there were certain legionaires i wanted to see smacked down.

I must be the only guy here who would side with Cos. I see this version of Brainy as a master manipulator, not far away from how Vril Dox begins in L.E.G.I.O.N.. And although I enjoy reading about that type of character (a lot, actually)... in reality, people like him who are 100% fanatically sure they are always right make me uneasy. He may believe his ends justify the means and are for the greater good, but his inability to see anyone else's point of view, or make room for another's interpretation of what that greater good is, would keep me from chosing him as leader.

I see Cos' bad behavior mostly as the frantic attempts of a basically normal guy to keep from being overrun by someone he is well aware is many, many times more intelligent than he is. I believe that (this version of) Cos, for all his faults, has a better developed moral compass than (this) Brainy.

That scene was confusing to me too, TL. I thought it was Ayla using her powers to make things float out of her way, but it looks like the artist forgot to draw her hands or something.

I agree. When Cos started in with, "Identities? . . . " I was totally lost. It took me a while to figure out he was referring back to Sun Boy's use of the word a few panels before. Cos's outburst seemed totally contrived to me. It reminds me of early in the last boot when Cos was also shown as a major jerk/control freak and it was all later explained away as a hoax to sting Pres. Chu or some such nonsense.

It looked to me that Ayla walked towards the throne in panel 1. Seeing PP wasn't there she turned to side in panel 2 and peeled back curtains which disappeared.

Dah enough of Cos and Brainy pissing all over the HQ to cover each other's scent. Someone (Saturn Girl?, Dream Girl?) should leash those two and teach them to heel. Give me MORE PROJECTRA, I want to see her kick Lemnos' butt.

Nope! I would be behind Cos for sure and not just 'cause he reminds me of Mal from Firefly. Unlike Brainy, I feel like Cos encompasses everything a leader truly is. No leader is without flaws, he tries to balance everything... yeah. I dunno. I just can't help but be a fan.

That said, I think both sides have equal merit and I'll be curious to see if Cham takes what Cos said as an insult and sides against him and where Projectra falls and stuff. Yeah. Definitely interesting. And I wanna see how/if they can pull it all together again too.

When's the next issue????

Oh and where was Phantom Girl on the splash page/fight scene too?

That makes it her, Cham, Lyle, Brin and Projectra that were missing from the fight... maybe we'll find out why next issue.

Well, Brin's still with Terror Firma, and Projectra just wants to be left alone, but Cham and Lyle's absences this issue were certainly conspicuous.

IMO, neither of these things are editorial lapses. Micro Lad is from a race of giants. Can they all shrink or is it just him? If it's all of them, it's not much of a stretch to think they can shrink down whenever it's convenient. Also, just because he's from Earth it doesn't mean that his people aren't simply settlers who originated on another world. Heck, his people could even be the Biblical or other mythological giants. We need more information before we can make a solid judgment about him.

As for Lightning Lad, I again don't think it's a mistake. It could just be that his origin changed.

Excellent story!!! I loved the realistic inner conflict within Legion HQ. You can't put that many characters together, from such vast origins, and not have some degree of conflict. I too missed Barry's art.

Warning: Negative post upcoming!!!

In my youth, there was one comic I looked forward to more than any other. The stories were good, the characters were great and the art was awesome. I never had to open a cover to see if the comic was worth getting. It always was.

Then one day, something changed. I got home, opened the cover...and the art style looked different. I turned the pages, and it was totally different. I was about 8 when this happened, but I already knew to check the credit box to see who drew this issue. To my eternal disappointment, the name of Dave Cockrum was absent and some upstart named Mike Grell was the new permanent artist. (Yeah, I'm talkin about Legion).

For 7 issues of this new Legion, some of that old magic of Cockrum's Legion was back. Even the fill-in by Leonard Kirk was very compatible with Barry's style... and was a nice job.

Then I open the cover to issue 8. At first, I though maybe this will be okay. But towards the art got worse! Towards the end, I was amazed that this artwork was even approved. I know art is subjective, but this looked like amateur hour...and I'm not happy!!!

Come on guys, we're only 8 issues into a new series, and you're already relying on someone we never heard of (and that would be okay if the art was good) to fill in. If you're having that much trouble finding a guest artist, I'd recommend skipping a month. From now on, I will be opening the cover at the store before picking it up.

One thing that did show with having a guest artist was the redundancy in Sun Boy's and Element Lad's costumes. In the 2-page spread where they face each other, they practically look identical. The red and yellow costume for Jan has got to be changed.

Very disappointing!

And what's worse, the artwork meant that the story really had to stand on its own. And you know what? I'm already bored with it. Legion versus Legion. B-O-R-I-N-G!!!

You know...I've been singing the praises of this book since issue 1. I won't say that I've changed my mind in all of one month, but another issue like number 8, and I think sales will start dropping.

No good people. Not good.

it's true, kcekada, that Barry Kitson's absence was a loss for the issue. but the fill-in art was not "bad" just not what we're used to.
i remember reading the JSA title in it's first year, and every time the regular artist Stephen Sadowski missed an issue it hurt. it hurt real bad. but the title went on to become on of DC's consistant top sellers.
(speaking of Sadowski--he'd be great as a fill-in or back-up artist on the LSH)
the other option is to go the Ultimates/Planetary route and wait sometimes 6 months or longer for the next issue, but it's all by the same creative team. it's a tough call.

Well, as I said, art is subjective. But I thought that this was BAD. It started out okay (but not as good as it should be for this book). But it got really crappy as the story went on.

Sadowski is supposed to be working on an upcoming Legion story. I wasn't a big fan of his work on JSA at first. He improved in time. I though Leonard Kirk was wonderful...and Rags Morales was awesome. Not a big fan of the current JSA artist.

I'll admit that art plays a huge role in how much I enjoy a comic. I haven't even read all of 8 yet, because I can't stand looking at the pages.

This is what I was thinking... I just didn't think it through enough to write it down.

That was him turning on the flight-ring broadcast.

Only a jerkwit would do that. . .
What's a "jerkwit?"

She was lifting Projectra's throne. You can see the curvy legs of it poorly depicted floating above her.

Yes.

Quite a few of them let slip some words that won't be too easy to forget. I think it would be a nice touch if some resentment lingered even after they made up, but nothing overbearing.

Dunno... I kinda liked it.

I'm far from the most discriminating or devoted fan, but I enjoyed it. The art wasn't glaringly bad, though it did lack the grace of Barry's work. (Is it just me, or did the artist misdraw the 'shirt' part of Sun Boy's costume?) Light Lass didn't look like herself... eh. Actually, now that y'all have got me looking for problems, I can see plenty of them. But upon first reading, I didn't really notice.

Story, though, was good. Brainy nailed Cos beautifully, used his authoritarian style against him in an elegant and perfect way. I like Cos a lot, but he's really been his own worst enemy in this new series. It makes me wonder what kind of deal he has with Imra and Garth to have them be so loyal.

I can see why some of the more devoted fans are upset with the teenage hysterics on display, but I thought it was a freaking hoot. I really tire of idealized hero characters, I need realism to relate fully. I became a fan during the 'Archie Legion' *cough*, but I still was irritated at times by the glossy perfection that stuck to everyone. They didn't seem like real people. It's nice to see teenage superheros actually acting like real teenagers, and not being mini 30 year olds with a few pimples and cliche high school 'problems' (not that *any* of them would *ever* get a single pimple *ever*).

I've been waiting for the Cos/Brainy thing to catch fire for months. This was a satisfying explosion, at least.

Not just you. It was weird and... extra pointy.