Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Oh Yeah, That Forum: The Titans Alternate Titans

This thread started out as a fanfic project before I realized it would probably much more fruitful to do it this way.

In a Gym'll's thread, Thoth mused on what might have happened had Raven seduced Robin instead of Kid Flash, while Starfire ended up with Kid Flash.

The more I thought about it, the more I thought of the butterfly effect and how it would affect the entire history of the Titans from that point on.

So I'll put in my two cents, but I hope others will contribute as well, and will also come up with other Titans alternative timeline scenarios which can be explored in detail.

I imagine that if Raven seduced Dick, he would be far less forgiving of her than Wally was in the "mainstream" timeline. If anything, Dick would become much more like his mentor, guarded and emotionally opaque at best, and would become Nightwing much sooner. At best, their relationship would be like that between Batman and Nocturna during the 1980s Doug Moench Batman run -- a thoroughly doomed romance. And after Raven turns evil, it's over between them, no second chances even after she returns clad in white.

If Kid Flash and Starfire ended up together, it would set the scene for a rich romantic triangle between Wally, Kory, and Frances Kane. Wally would be offered the chance to become Tamaranean royalty by marriage, but being the down-to-earth guy and reluctant superhero that he is, he'd turn it down, break up with Kory, and settle down with Frances, whose emotional state I think he could deal with sensibly. He would still take over the Flash mantle whether Barry Allen lived or died; I prefer to imagine Barry and Iris living together happily ever after in the far future. I'd also give Frances and Wally a daughter, Barbara (I named her after Barbara Randall Kesel), though I'm not sure whose powers she'd inherit -- maybe both?

I picture all of this climaxing with an enraged Kory becoming even worse than her sister, killing her sister and becoming leader of Tamaran. She'd then send an armada of ships to invade Earth, and the Titans would have to come together one last time to save the world.

Frances and Wally could have used a nice happy ending.

I imagine Kole could have been saved somehow

Thanks, Ibby. I agree. Despite her emotional burdens, or maybe because of them, I liked Frances better than Linda Park.



Absolutely. But Azrael, Roy, and Danny would all die horrible, gory deaths.

So I got to thinking, if Kory was not dating Dick, who is Donna's bestest guy friend, would Donna and Kory have still become Best Friends Forever? And if Dick was dating Raven, would Donna have become her BFF? If so, could Raven have sensed the evilness of Terry and warned Donna away from the ginger goon?

Interesting. I could see Donna and Kory still being close, Donna was always very "motherly" in a sense and she and Kory were also both had that warrior background.

As for Terry, I think be fooled a lot of people he could possibly have hidden from Raven!

Good point about the warrior spirit within both Donna and Kory.

Thinking back to the formation of the 1980s Teen Titans. It only takes a couple of nudges:-

Raven recognises that Robin is the key to reforming the Titans. Creating waking dreams, Raven seeds the reformation of the Titans in his mind (all pretty much as per DC Presents 26)

Raven continues invading Grayson's mind, reinforcing the Titans. As the week passes, recurring dreams involve Dick saving Raven, creating an emotional attachment that only has to have the slightest of pushes from Raven to develop. His feelings for her grow stronger for her in these increasingly dangerous dream simulations, and it's Dick instead of Wally who's seen expressing concern for her.(again, nearly all of this is there)

Ideas of emotional and operational independence escalates the tension already apparent in his relationship with Batman. Dick has already left college and is spending more time living at the Wayne Foundation (where we see him in #1)

Raven finally goes to Grayson in person, to warn him of the threat to come. She hands him a phone with Wally West at the end of the line. So Wally is the first Titan to be recruited in the comic after Grayson. West is invited to join but declines as he's a full time student.(as per #1)

Raven anticipates this and gets Dick to agree to meet Wally. She transports Dick to Blue Valley, while she searches for Wonder Girl.

Of the Titans, Wally is at the most ease in the beginning of the series. A reluctant hero, he's back studying and close to his family and area where his world view is best supported.

In the end it's his concern for Grayson that brings him back. Grayson, as Robin, helped West out a lot when they were younger, and West feels those bonds strongly. With the end of the semester at hand, he has a few days to help out an old friend. Especially when the friend is driven, on edge and clearly looking for support.

In #1 Raven has already contacted Gar before he encounters Wonder Girl. Perhaps Raven shows him a world where he can feel that he matters; has friends and perhaps even offers some closure to the death of his parents.

Perhaps it's the same offer she makes Wonder Girl, as Donna stands in the burned husk of the tenement that used to be her child hood home (in #1). She has had little luck in finding out more about her past.

Both subplots would develop in the series anyway so Raven doesn't even need supernatural powers to influence the pair.
West and Grayson return and the group then recruit the bitter Cyborg much as per #1. Cyborg is much like Logan and Troy in that he needs closure and a purpose. The all too precognitive Raven then takes the group to the UN plaza.

In the comic there's a bit of convoluted coincidence. The heroes don't rescue Kory straight away. She has to become involved with Grant Wilson to give a reason behind the next couple of issues. Then she has to get kidnapped by the aliens, so that the heroes have to go on their spaceship and rig it to explode.

It's not until they've spend some time with her in the next issue that Kory and Grayson have their language exchanging kiss.
However, if we were to look back before that moment, then Wally, as he would always be, is first on the scene to fight the aliens and get into the ship. It would make perfect sense if he were the one to find Kory at super speed and rescue her. After the ship detonates, then it would be Kory and West who kiss.

That's what would keep West with the Titans. What was going to be a few days becomes something longer term when he meets Kory.
Donna and Wally would both be concerned about Dick, who was critical of the Titans throughout the opening issues. That's another bond that ties them to the team.

Grayson would know he's being manipulated by Raven. He's been trained to follow logical patterns of thought since childhood. He'd see that his actions don't follow that, and he'd be working out why. Batman would sense it too, leading up to the JLA/ Titans confrontation.

Raven's dark, supernatural edge is perfect for the madness of dark Gotham nights, in a way that Starfire could never be. Her manipulative actions are also perfect for Grayson, who is at an introspective crossroads in his life at the start of the series.

The Flash is a brighter, action oriented character. The man who can travel at the speed of light now has a partner who can fire starbolts at the speed of light too. It's a much better match for them both.

As you said, Thoth, it only takes a couple of nudges.

I'd be interested to know how you think the relationships would pan out in the future, especially with the Frances factor.

cat fight.

kidding I'll give it some thinks.

Joey, too. How could I forget that bewhiskered body-hopping bozo?

Aw, I liked Jericho! (Not nearly as much as Kole, obviously!)

My own 'alternate Titans' notion, about which I wrote enough background for a fanfic, was a Crime Syndicate-verse version.

Starfire was a half-Tamaranean / half-Okaraan warlord Vegan royal (from a family with dozens of royal children, all fighting and assassinating each other and volunteering for various superhuman experiments / cybernetic upgrades to gain advantages) who came to Earth in hopes of conquering it and adding it to her family empire (which would give her a huge leg up against her many older siblings).

Raven was sent by Trigon to 'open the way' and take control of his cults on Earth, sent to summon him, but is dragging her feet because she would rather run things on Earth, than be her dad's flunky again. She could assume her more human form, but generally was in her red-skinned, four-eyed, antlered form full-time.

Kid Flash killed a previous speedster and gained his super-speeds from his blood. Johnny Quick was his next target, but didn't take him seriously as a threat, making him even more angry...

Changeling was the most changed, being the human-ish form taken by the alien protoplasm creature that dissolved Cyborg's legs and arm (and mother!), and could take the form of any person or creature it had devoured and absorbed (including Victor's mom, a form it only took in private with him).

Cyborg was pretty nuts, striking up a weird co-dependent relationship with the creature that killed and replaced his mother (and crippled him), and was a bit of a techno-fetishist, more and more enamored of replacing his remaining human 'weakness' with mechanical implants and upgrades.

Those are some intriguing ideas, Set. Did you also come up with a "rouges gallery" of heroes for your villainous Titans to battle?

Yup! Pretty much classic Titans enemies. Deathstroke, the world's deadliest hunter, hunting Earth 3's 'most dangerous game,' the super-powered members of the Crime Syndicate, and their allies, the Titans! Brother Blood, former high priest of Trigon on Earth, displaced by Raven, and having none of it! The Fearsome Five, Blackfire, Brotherhood of Evil (not so evil, in this universe!), Cheshire, etc.

Terra would be a good-guy infiltrator, pretending to be a super-powered terrorist, but setting them up for Deathstroke to attempt a bold attack on the entire team.

Some, like Brother Blood and Blackfire, remained bad-guys, but others, like the Brotherhood (Madame Rouge, etc.) and Fearsome Five (Dr. Kimoyo Light as leader!), were more like classic superheroes, just operating underground, in a world openly ruled by supervillains.

^ I LOVE THIS!

I'll get back to thinking about how the West/ Grayson switch would have impacted the team. But an image in an early issue and Set's post made me come up with...

Hellgon
At the close of WWII, on a winter swept Scottish island, a group of Nazi agents summon the harbinger of Ragnarok to Earth. Allied forces are too late, a gateway is formed and something comes through. A boy. A small, red boy.

Professor Trevor Bruttenholm manages to rescue the boy from the ensuing battle. Against the warnings of his companions Malcolm Frost and Lady Cynthia Eden Jones, Bruttenholm decides to adopt the child. The child is Trigon.



What if the Titans were in the world of Hellboy?

Trigon Being shunted from base to base, has raised Trigon as something of an army brat. Testing on him subsided after the first ten years of his life, as people came to accept his presence. The BPRD gives Trigon a chance to explore, something he spent a lot of his early life completely unable to do. Emotionally in his late teens, Trigon has recently begun to come to accept and fight against his supposed role in Ragnarok. The BPRDs prolonged battles with the Cult of Ravens has left him in no doubt as to what side he prefers to be on.(Herald)

Det. Richard Grayson - The son of a wealthy ambassador to South Africa, Richard was groomed to assume his father's role in a secretive society dedicated to immortality. Despite his training, Richard rebelled against this life, but he cannot escape his fate. His father's allies and enemies both want him for their own ends. Richard saw refuge with the BPRD as his only escape. He has since learned that his father has succeeded in cheating death and has become something other than human. Something else else nocturnal and monstrously obsessed. Grayson is the BPRDs lead field investigator. His cool and focused approach helping to reign in some of his team.(Nightwing)

Victor Stone - The sacrifice in a ritual to summon one of the terrible Ogdru Hem, Victor was rescued by BPRD field agents beneath the subways of New York. Unfortunately, Victor had already been changed by the touch of the creature from beyond the spheres. His limbs withered and face warped. Victor is now encased inside a metallic suit, able to release his protoplasmic form at will into an endless number of forms. Often bitter and angry over his fate and what his family were about to do to him, Victor is still adapting to his transformation. (Changeling)

Lt Kory Anders - The daughter of contactees from the 1980s, Kory's traumatised family was mocked and marginalised and she grew up on the edges of society. Her parent fuelled fringe interests, piqued by some interesting missions in the middle east, brought her to the attention of the BPRD. By the time a routine army medical picked up some odd results, Kory's pyrokinetic abilities had already begun to manifest. The alien race responsible for her abilities have also been alerted to the triggering of her powers. They will be with us soon. The Ogdru Jahad may not be the only one of Earth's problems. Kory works and plays hard, her strong military training complimenting her sense of fun.(Starfire)

Donna Troy - The symbolic daughter of Hecate, it is Troy's destiny to decide the fate of mankind. Her life is therefore bound closely with that of Trigon, as the latter is the herald of Ragnarok. Troy is a former mental patient, the voices of the Fates controlling her and pushing her in ways she could barely comprehend. Years with the BPRD have allowed Troy more control, although her transformation into a Fury is shocking and deadly. Troy finds it difficult to form relationships. She often doubts her own feelings and wonders if she is in control of her actions. She is also being manipulated by BPRD researcher Marv Long, making her more unstable. (Fury)

Dr. Lilith Eden-Jones - The grand daughter of Lady Cynthia Eden-Jones, Lilith has surpassed the Victorian, spiritualist trappings of her family. Her powers as a medium coupled with her grasp of mathematics make her a key ally to the BPRD. But will she follow her family's warnings and kill Trigon? What future has she seen? Insightful and intelligent, Lilith is rarely diverted from her goals. One of Lilith's spirit guides is a small boy called Danny. Something else else terrible happened to him in life.(Omen)

G'Naarth - Indigenous to Earth are a race of aquatic Deep Ones, dwelling unchanged over aeons in our oceans. Mankind's development brought us into contact with these creatures on numerous occasions, such as with the Fomori of Celtic legend and Dagon of the Babylonians. Contact was forcibly ended, with terrible tales of breeding and killing. In the aftermath of the summoning of Trigon, a small enclave contacted the BPRD off the Scottish coast. Their tele-empathic representative assists the BPRD in the more hostile of Earth's environments. Oddly knowledgeable for someone form a remote race, G'Naarth shows the others the scale of the forces they fight against.(Tempest)

Wallace West - The team's everyman. Wallace is one of the BPRDs mechanics. He's been in the role a few years, and has assisted in working on some of the artefacts the BPRD field agents have discovered. In recent months, he has been drawn to a strange egg shaped energy source, retrieved from an ice structure in the Arctic. It certainly interests Lilith. Exposure to the artefact is starting to change Wallace. Time seems to shift around him, altering his perception of movement. Others have dismissed occurrences of Wally's seemingly moving almost faster than the eye can see. Grounded with a dry sense of humour, Wallace is not at all prepared for field work (Speedy)

Thoth, that's magnificent! I know next to nothing about the Hellboy universe, and yet I still think it's awesome!

I think you should seriously consider changing the names of the characters and turning your post into a novel or a series of novels.

I'm so grateful to both you and Set. This is EXACTLY what I created this thread for.

Thanks Fickles. That's very nice of you to say. It's good what two references (the panel and Set's post) and 30 minutes will achieve.

Needless to say, that in the end Trigon would indeed usher in Ragnarok. His "descent" would really put the team through some difficult situations. Of course, there's the Ragnarok foretold by small groups of ill-educated cultists thousands of years ago, and what actually happens.

So, this made me dig out the first Hellboy issues for a read. By a spooky coincidence...



A new breed of Titans indeed...

More proof that there is no such thing as coincidence.

Bump.

Because I'd love to know some other people's ideas and thoughts.

Over on the Teen Titans Trivia Thread, Ann posted the following question:-



To which the answer was:-



Since the protagonist of the Invisibles was a teenager, I wondered if Morrison was already thinking about Teen Titans while the Invisibles was being created. That made me wonder about...


Invisible Titans

The Titans tap their British '60s roots as they battle a millennia old conspiracy that threatens the future of the Multiverse!

The Titans are a cell whose name comes from one of the cultures the Invisible College thinks it draws its secrets from. The College seeks to free mankind from the yoke of the Archons, beings from another reality, who seek to shape ours in their image.

Although fighting the constructs of the Archons' eternal oppression, the College itself is a Rosicrucian conceit, based on secret organisations that either never were, or based their own history on myth.

The Titans discover that even freedom is a cage, and that there are other futures beyond their war.

The story ends with the Titans having the option of retaining their abilities in a world in which they have defeated the Archons, or to sacrifice it all to break the prison of Angra Mainyu. The group choose to free mankind from the prison.

Dane Hall, "Herald": The first page of Titans would have him shout *!$* at the reader, as he throws a brick through a car window.

Initial protagonist is a kid with no prospects and a dysfunctional family life from Toxteth, Liverpool. A future of petty crime, gangs and unemployment awaits. He has issues with any sort of authority. The socialist city he lives in has been betrayed by a conformist New Labour, full of New Academies of conformity to a single world outlook. His latent ability is picked up through state-designed academic testing, which is in turn leaked to the Titans.

As another UK Titans cell is destroyed by their enemies, the Archons, a move is made to recruit Hall. They have to rescue him from a Young (Jung) Offenders Institute. The institute conforms minds and bodies for service through archetypical reinforcement.

There's a belief that he's very important to the outcome of the Invisible War. His arc sees him fight against both sides of the war, fall for the line that he's vital to it, and discard that role as he learns to think for himself, armed with some wisdom rather than attitude.

His status as some sort of messiah of a golden age turns out to be utter b0ll0cks. The College believe he is a spiritual reincarnation, not realising that the last thing Hall wants to be is a copy of someone else. His anti-establishment views from the start hold him in good stead to help change the future, even if he still annoys everyone.

The Hall surname comes from Hawk/Dove, where Dane discovers that he need not conform to any dualistic personality traits, but has a choice. This duality is also an analogy of the Zoroastrian conflict at the heart of the series. Through Hall, we get to see conformity and oppression through a variety of societal structures, but in a fun way. The battle between Order & Chaos operates within Hall and in the realities he?s trapped in.

Hall is given guidance in London by a dishevelled survivor of a Golden Age Titans Group - possibly Martin Tyler (based on a Hourman sidekick), who can see possible futures, his life always lived a minute beyond his grasp.

Zoe Anders, "Robin": Revealed to be a disjointed traveller through time, but not necessarily through the timeline that the series occurs in. The group's foes, The Archons (Church of Blood), attempt to control the future by defining its structure through time travel. "Robin" is a codename she picked up from something she expected to see, a uniform of sorts, on her arrival. A red waistcoat with a "r" symbol.

Robin seems fragmented. This is partly due to the trauma of her journey. But the future she comes from is changing due to events she's influencing in the past. This changes who she is, and her motivations, as the series continues. Through Robin we get to see our future and how our actions here change it. She's also the conduit of the things that sent her back, to ensure their victory. Anders is also hunted by other temporal entities.

There's a hint that the entire series may exist in Anders mind when an experiment goes wrong. (Red hair a nod to Starfire as is surname, Robin after Grayson and the costume she caught a glimpse of when time travelling, Zoe is Ibby bait, as we don't know how far in the future she's come from, so it's a Kinetix nod)

Lucille Beecher, "Hawk": Former London police officer, who inadvertently sees activities of the conspiracy (Black Trains delivering dissidents from the North for "processing"). Due to her race (elitist organisation is racist too), the conspiracy will never let her join them, and consider her to be a foot soldier at best. She seemingly defects to the Titans when part of a police action against a cell. But is she a plant? She has uncanny parkour and athletic abilities. These are shown to be manifestations of her hyperspatial awareness. She has an uncanny way of tapping into psychogeography, and her codename is from architect Nicholas Hawksmoor. The purpose of London's post Great Fire map will be one of the stories, and one reason for the Black Trains.

Her abilities will also come to the fore as they enable her to withstand the effects of the technology that brought Robin into our time. Lucille is the most well adjusted to start with. She's upheld the law, and now she's going to see underneath it. (A combination between Karen Beecher, Boy and a protagonist form Global Frequency with a nod to DC's Underworld series.)

Toni Moretti, Oracle: Toni was freed from captivity by a Titans raid on the WABE facility. Psychological issues as a child had brought her to the attention of the Archons. Hallucinations were one symptom, and the archons found that Toni was in fact connecting to a higher realm. They have worked to make that access more physical in nature, and Toni can now access a Magic Mirror like substance from that realm, that responds to her will. The presence of this substance can also be used to pacify/ fascinate others. Toni doesn't care less about an Invisible War. To her, the end of the world is losing contact with her friends or not going shopping.

She's materialistic. But there's two sides to that, as her selfishness gives her focus. Always the most likely to betray the team, as The Archons dangle a life that Toni genuinely wants. Even finding out her father gave her willingly to the Archons doesn't change her deep down. Even after the Titan's series ending decision, Toni doesn't change, casting some doubt on humanity's ability to change, or even if it feels it needs to.

Another experiment being carried out uses technology through objects like the hands of glory, resulting in attempts to take and return someone form beyond death. A young Greta Hayes is one of the subjects in this programme.

Garfield Dayton, Protean: The Vermont Logan's have been part of the Invisible Conspiracy for generations. Garfield's parents were wealthy landowners, explorers and spiritualist dabblers. His father, Steven Dayton managed to pierce the barrier surrounding our world, bringing forth an entity that possessed his pregnant wife, Rita, at the s?ance which focused around a Hand of Glory. Raised primarily by his father, Garfield has come to terms with his identity, a struggle as s/he can change hir physical form. Garfield's arc looks at self-identification and gender. The society that Dayton was a part of are also antagonists, looking to usurp the Invisible College for their own ends.

Sean Harper Extremist cell leader and raised for a revolutionary role. Smooth and capable in the field, but a drug taking shambles off it, as he tries to stay one step ahead of the Titans' foes. For all he's steeped in political and military history, he becomes aware that he's as much a pawn of the Invisible College as he ever was of the army, he served outside of it.

Wallace West Recently disappeared following investigation into a device called The Accelerator.
Other Invisibles:-

Richard Wayne is a billionaire philanthropist. Both sides think he works for them. He became involved in the Invisible War during his extensive world travels as a youth. He has aided the Titans, but he will prove to be an unreliable ally. Richard underwent emotional and physical abuse growing up as he was moulded into being the scion of the Waynes. His family are attached to an ancient cult, worshipping something like a Bat (links to Lovecraftian Nightgaunts)

Lilith Clay was a debutante who enjoyed the '60s to their fullest from her privileged upbringing. She waited for the Age of Aquarius that never arrived, leaving her an aged, half bitter half confused alcoholic by the time of this series. Her premonitions and divinations aid the Titans, but her visions are open to interpretation.

Mr Jupiter is an infamous leader and mystic behind the Titans. He influences the organisation from the background, and is considered an inspirational figure in the Invisibles chances of winning the war. He is immersed in the logos of the Invisible War, their foes and the and dream of a utopian age.
Mr Jupiter's real knowledge consists of fragments that he desperately fails to piece together to fight their enemies.

Jason "Ace" Hart is the Moorcockian poster child of Invisibles heroism. The reality behind the Underground's super-agent turns out to be somewhat different.

Dr. Ryan Choi is a physicist who unlocks a secret that will lead to travel beyond the spacetime we know.

Steve Dayton & Rita Farr : members of an Invisibles organisation that secretly split from our protagonists one in the 19th century. There's no single golden path in the Invisibles beliefs. The more structure they put onto it, and the more sources they mined for "hidden knowledge" the more dissension there was. (1/6)
_________________

The Invisibles cell destroyed in Anglesey (Codename: Teutates), was guided by druidic traditions, orally passed down through centuries. At least, that's what they believed.

Duela: (Harlequin) : Former intelligence analyst. recovering from personality destruction at the hands of the Archons. Duela survives the Archon attack and is seen as part of the Harlequinade. Uses Makeup to express herself.

Malcom Duncan - A former military funded scientist working on HAARP and universal harmonics. Came to the Invisibles following EM experiments on students of Baxter Beach colleges (1/9)

Charlie Parker - vocalist and celebrity. He will be broken and rebuilt by his captors.

Brom "Stikk" - Antiquarian and older man. Spiritual leader of the cell. He's killed in the attack, whatever information he held was crushed with him.
__________________________

Eddie Self-styled guru and member of a New Age Invisibles cell (1/15)

Chet Walters Despite his youth, Chet is a human derelict, ostracised for his claims of abduction. Reported as alien abduction, Chet's experience lend themselves as much to folk myths. His abduction story is true, and he was victim of Dimension X experiments. Chet dies from an overdose. (1/16)

"Mister Punch" Presumably not a single agent, as it's a codename used over more than a century. Multiple identities would preserve integrity of cell structure as Punch has operated with numerous groups. Will be the one to let the Titans know about Hall being a possible sacrifice, based on the roots of multiple cultures. (1/19)

I don't know bupkiss about the Invisibles, but the Hellboy/Titans mashup was sublime!

Random other thought on Crime Syndicate Titans Earth; the hero underground resistance was coordinated by Slade Wilson, but suffered a devastating blow when he seemed to go mad and betrayed them to the Crime Syndicate and Titans, and even personally killed a few, including his own closest protoges. He's still underground and supporting the resistance, with a much smaller network (as fewer trust him than before, of those who survive), and blind, having gouged out his own eyes to prevent his cruel and twisted son Jericho from ever possessing him and turning him against his allies again...

Wow. Heady stuff, Thoth. My first reaction was that I'd have the group make the opposite choice, and keep their powers. And as I was typing that, it occurred to me that that could set up a sequel in the mould of Miracleman Book Three or Twilight of the Gods.

I'm definitely going to keep thinking about why I'd have the group do that, and post more as it becomes clearer.




This is all quite a bit to take in one sitting, so for now I'll just say: I am very impressed; I appreciate the explanations about the real world organizations and such; adore the idea of Kinetix as Robin-slash-Ragged Robin; and the inclusion of Ryan Choi (for those who don't know, he's a Morrison creation, even though Morrison didn't actually write that Atom series) is very inspired.

Back tomorrow with more thoughts. Thanks, Thoth.

So...to elaborate on why I would have the Titans/Invisibles keep their powers and thus doom ordinary humans to life imprisonment, while at the same time leaving the Archons a threat to existence...

I suppose that a lot of the world events to the past 4 to 5 years have pretty well scrubbed away any remaining idealism I ever had about humanity and their hypothetical "great destiny" to fulfill. Far as I'm now concerned, the instinctive mob mentality and the gullibility of the average human mind makes the species little more than prime cannon fodder for the Archons. Besides, humans have a tendency toward insularity and toward creating Hell on Earth, so I don't see much difference between being in the prison and being "free."

I guess I must sound a lot like Talia al Ghul (although unlike Talia's father, my own father -- a rational, highly spiritual humanist -- would be horrified if I disclosed any of these opinions to him.)

I'll probably have a bit more to add next time I post.

A quick skim through old Titans' issues gives the following tie ins (I've tweaked the first post a few more likely Invisibles members).

Antagonists

Archons : Extra dimensional entities infecting and corrupting our dimension. Invisible scientists call their home Dimension X. (1/16 / 1/21)

Church of Blood : A front organisation for the Archons that stretches back as long as the Invisible College, where there is belief in uninterrupted spiritual bloodlines. They believe that their saviour will be Azrael, who will hold the fate of mankind in his hands. (2/21)

Azrael The name of the being that the Archons believe will usher in their dominance through human flesh of our world. The Titans disrupt the services of the Church of Blood (2/52)

A number of Archon facilities have the Blackstone logo, a nod to Silas Stone's technical accomplishments, subverted here for use by the Archons. Cyborg's gradual reduction in humanity mirrors some Archon goals. (DCP1/26)

Raven Roth is a determined operative of the Archons, hunting down the Invisible Titans. She destroys a cell in (druidic heartland) Anglesey, prompting the recruitment of Hall at the start of the series. Her can seemingly travel great distances or appear from shadows. She can also draw life from her foes, possibly powering her ability or as a sacrifice to those she serves. (DCP1/26)

Jake Trask : Archon operative, who seems to turn up to foil the Invisibles more than should be possible. There's more than one of him, sharing a single mind. (BB60)

The Deliverer An inhuman, and centuries old, Archon agent sent when other agents have failed. (1/12)

Headmaster Min : His name derives from "sympathy for those who die young". Regional head of Young Offenders Institutions & Archon servant. Short sharp shock detention centres and government outsourcing of such techniques to other countries discovered. Headmaster Min revealed to be Archon servant. (1/19)

Mister Twister : Through his apparatus, he's able to warp the perceptions of his victims. Appears within those altered worlds in a variety of guises. He may have a guise in a number of "realities" in the series. (BB54)

The Flips : Faceless in their lab born forms, they are imprinted with the personalities and appearance of those they are to replace. The victim is consumed. (SC59)

Beast God of Xochatan : Connected with the Protean's origins. (1/1)

A New Man derived from the Archon's genetic experimentation calls itself Garth, a New Atlantean based on eugenics and theosophy. His partner, Tula, threatens a dark Coming Age. Failed experiments include Garn, shot by the Invisibles and Akkuru believing himself to have attained godhood. As the Invisible College seeks knowledge from all cultures, they were susceptible to these, and have a part to play in their growth. (1/2)

DIABLO : Archon front organisation, operating in Central America and connected to the summoning of Xochatan (1/4)

Doctors Baltzer & Vorma : state sponsored doctors/interrogators who use mind control on captured subjects, sent back as double agents or broken. They enjoy their work. (1/6)

Mad Mods : Would a uniform by another name fit so well? Older Mods who conform to a single look/ ethos. Trapped in one fashion statement. Conform. Conform. (1/7 & 1/17). One of a number of groups in the series who retain a single, locked in appearance.

Lansford Labs Lansford contains a prestigious medical school. Foreign exchange students are brainwashed there and sent back home under Archon control. The Invisibles have lost more than one promising subject to scholarships from such institutions. Ahmed AL Din, Sama Rau and Hans Vernick have all been students there. (1/8)

Scorchers Name given by Invisibles to the emotionless clean-up crew of Archon front groups. Their scorched earth policy shows no pity towards culture, knowledge or life as they wipe opponents and failures from history. (1/10)

The Invisibles blackmail young idealist William Gregson to steal the secrets of Dr Simon Finley's work. It shows that the Invisibles will use tactics not dissimilar to their foe's front organisations. Gregson doesn't survive the strain but Finley's DNA targeted nerve gas research is destroyed. (1/11)

The Invisibles network is disrupted by Archon technology, using the brains of captured Invisibles to target their known contacts. The Archon technology is orbital and sits within government defence programmes. The level of Archon infection is once again apparent. (1/14)

The Titans investigate the experiments of Professor Weathers. He thinks he's working on a race that will survive the Cold War, but the Archons are using the new forms to host entities from elsewhere. (3/9)