Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities doomed 70s superteam THE CHAMPIONS

So I bought the CHAMPIONS tpb which came out recently. It's been a scream. These early issues I have never seen before. I own some of the later issues, like # 9 and 14-17, so 90% of this is all new stuff for me.

Kinda doubting the wisdom of launching a new title with Don Heck artwork; probably would have been safer maybe to get # 1's cover artist Gil Kane to do the first couple of issues then make with the Heck. I know later issues feature George Tuska artwork and some early John Byrne artwork.

Real cute how all the heroes in # 1 just happened to be on UCLA campus that fateful day...!

I remember buying the first three issues when they came out. Somehow, the Champions didn't grab me as a team. Hercules was too egotistical, Black Widow was too bossy, Angel too spoiled, Ghost Rider too creepy, and Iceman was just there. There were no "stable" personalities. It would be like watching the Three Stooges with only Moe and Curly -- no Larry!

Years later, I read some of the later issues. I liked the addition of Darkstar (I think that's her name) as Iceman's girlfriend. Perhaps she was the "stable" personality I was looking for.

I agree about Don Heck's artwork. He was a dependable workhorse of an artist, but hardly the most dynamic penciller. His faces always seemed particularly wooden. But I guess there were only so many Cockrums, Starlins and Buscemas to go around.

I agree with you guys. I bought the entire series a while back. I'm not a Heck fan either. The Byrne stuff later is AMAZING though.

This team was wierd. I saw chemistry between Black Widow-Hercules, Black Widow-Ghost Rider, Angel-Hercules, Angel-Iceman....and that is about it. No chemistry as a team.

Widow, Angel and Hercules IMO are the ones that fit in the best. Ghost Rider and Iceman? Nah.

If they do come out with a new series I hope they think it through a bit more.

I AM a Don Heck fan, however, his work in the early 70's almost looks like it was by a completely different person from the guy who did all that beautiful, dynamic stuff in the 60's. (In addition, he wound up getting generally BETTER inkers when he switched over to DC in the late 70's.)

THE CHAMPIONS struck me, from the word go, as a book that was just done for the sake of knocking out more product. No reason for the team to exist, just a set of random characters who weren't currently being used in teams, 3rd-rate writing, 3rd-rate art... I dropped it very early on.

Later, after Bill Mantlo (the perrennial "fill-in" guy) had taken over, I think partly as a sales stunt (or something) they got then-current "HOT" artists John Byrne AND Bob Layton on the book. While they were on it, the book was much BETTER than it ever deserved to be! They were some fun issues.

As soon as Byrne left, things fell apart-- QUICKLY. The final story was a 2-parter that crossed over into that OTHER mid-70's abortion that never-should-have-been, SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP. (Augh!!) There were a couple of follow-ups... a 2-parter in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN (the 3rd Spidey book which I felt deserved to exist EVEN LESS than MARVEL TEAM-UP), and an INCREDIBLE story in a HULK ANNUAL by Roger Stern, John Byrne & Bob Layton (again!) that guest-starred Angel & Iceman. Eventually the 2 ex-X-men joined THE NEW DEFENDERS... but that's a chapter of their history I suspect everyone would prefer to forget.

I never read any of the earlier issues... I didn't start collecting until after Byrne joined the book. However, it did seem like an odd line up. I couldn't imagine why those original five would have gotten together. There didn't seem to be anything common between them. I did enjoy the few issues that I did collect, however, since I was a fan of Black Widow, Angel and Iceman.

Yeah, the Byrne issues featuring Swarm were great; too bad those aren't included in this TPB. I wouldn't mind having the entire series collected, but I doubted they would collect only issues 12-17; Prof reminds me, however, that there were some follow-up tales, which would round out a complete CHAMPIONS set nicely. I seem to remember an IRON MAN annual as well featuring the team.

Hercules' over-the-top dialogue is always fun to read.

I forgot about that one... IRON MAN ANNUAL #4 / 1977, by Mantlo / Tuska / Perlin, featured Ghost Rider, Hercules, Angel, Iceman, Black Widow & Darkstar (I guess that's the whole group, huh?).

After The Champions broke up, Darkstar joined the new Crimson Dynamo and a couple of others in a Soviet-based group, which turned up in IRON MAN #109-112, also written by Bill Mantlo. (Not sure if they were in all 4 episodes.) I always remember how, after doing many fill-ins, Mantlo took over IRON MAN, and after a slow start, really began picking up steam around the time George Tuska left the book for the 3rd time (right when this story happened). But a few months later he was kicked off the book as a result of behind-the-scenes office politics. (Translation: David Michelinie & Bob Layton wanted the book for themselves!) I think those guys did a bang-up job, I just think it's a shame Mantlo got screwed in the process.

Hmm... according to my index, The Champions also turned up in, of all places, GODZILLA #3 (Oct'77). I wonder if that story makes sense on its own?

I HAD that issue!! My GODZILLA issues were among the first I sold off on eBay; maybe I should have given that one a glance-over before I sold it.

From my memory of the first issue, all the heroes just happened to be on the scene and remained together. Isn't that also how the Defenders formed?

In a way that is how the JLA was started too.

The Defenders had at least one thing in common: Dr. Strange, the Sub-Mariner and the Hulk were all outcasts, not only from society but also from the super-hero community. They were all regarded with suspicion, fear and mistrust, as was the Silver Surfer, who joined in DEFENDERS # 2.

Plus, the Defenders were deliberately billed as a non-team, a group that got together only when it suited their purposes (this was particularly true of Hawkeye, who joined to help his friend, the Black Knight, who had been turned to stone). This premise, however, must have seemed contrived when the Defenders became an ongoing title, so Valkyrie was added in issue # 4. She kept insisting that she be allowed to join the team, even though the others maintained there was no team to join. It was through Val, I think, that the Defenders gradually (and naturally) evolved into a regular team.

Subby left in # 14 (he'd tried to leave earlier, but Doc wouldn't let him), and was replaced by Nighthawk. (The Silver Surfer and Hawkeye had already gone). Nighty's arrival, I believe, completed the Defenders' evolution into a real team (though they were still billed somewhat disingenuously as a non-team).

I just got issue #2 in a box of old comics given to me by a friend. Fun read.

They also appeared recently in a flashback Hulk story by Peter David.

I got it just cause I love to see Herc/Hulk tussle. (that Hulk/Hercules Unleashed by David/Dedato rocked in the 90s).

This look back at THE CHAMPIONS was so funny, I just HAD to pass it on...

http://www.prismcomics.org/display.php?id=1287

That was hilarious, prof! I never saw Angel's costume as something Tyroc would do a double take at -- but I do now!

Good news for Champions fans who want more after reading the first volume:

Champions Classics Vol. 2

The fact that they were sort of mismatched is what I liked about them.

I wish Marvel had stuck with the X-men graduates going out and joining other teams, etc. It's inevitable, I suppose, that they'd return to Xavier's. Beast, Iceman, Angel, Wolverine... the only X-characters to 'make it' in the 'outer world'.

Such a sojourn would do Cyclops a world of good, I think. Maybe some of the former New Mutants will take their turn as Avengers or Defenders or Champions-- should the latter teams resurrect.

A Russian spy... a Greek god... what's not to love? The only disconnect I really remember is with Ghost Rider. Frequent guest star? Great. Team member? Huh?

They only thing they needed was an Inhuman. And maybe a Wakandan.

Cool, but DARN! No mention of the GODZILLA appearance!

I finally got Vol. 2 of this today! It was half-off, only $10 so I snagged it up. It reprints the final issues (12-17, which includes the good Byrne stuff) as well as a handful of misc. appearances.

Looking forward to reading it!

I read this as a kid, but don't remember much about it other than the Swarm issues and that Darkstar was a welcome addition to the team.

That scene where the killer bees are converging on L.A. scared the bejeebers outta me as a kid and was STILL way creepy when I came across it again last night!

I recently finished reading the first volume of Classic Champions.

I think the early issues are laughably bad in both story and art, but right about the time Darkstar -- who I've always loved -- enters the picture, the stories get better. I love me some ghosts of Black Widow's past, and having both the Crimson Dynamo and the Titanium Man is icing on the cake.

Don Heck was having personal problems during a large part of the 70s, which contributed to his turning out weak art. George Tuska has never been a favorite of mine, but darned if he doesn't draw a lovely Black Widow here. Bob Hall is...well...Bob Hall, and John Byrne could do no wrong back in the 70s.

Looking forward to starting Volume 2.

The second volume of Champions Classic was a bit of a letdown, despite some great Byrne art.

The Stranger story is a mess, although Darkstar's awesomeness makes up for a lot.

The Swarm story is very good. Unfortunately, just when the book seemed to be finding its niche, it petered out with bad crossovers, mediocre art, and loose ends.

Interestingly, it seems the loose ends were originally supposed to be resolved in an issue of Avengers. That never happened. Instead, it was resolved in Spectacular Spider-Man, in a rather perfunctory fashion IMO. Shame that the relationship between Bobby and Laynia was flushed down the toilet, when they made such a cute couple.

Overall, the Champions was a missed opportunity, but it gave us some good Bronze Age style moments, and introduced Darkstar.

I kind of viewed the Champions as the 1st X-Avengers team with Ghost Rider thrown in for not so good measure, My favorites were Bill Foster and Darkstar, I think if they had an early membership shake up it my have lasted longer. all valid points on team chemistry and creators.

I agree, LWL. If they'd chucked out Ghost Rider, they probably would have gelled. I could easily see the Black Knight, Power Man, Iron Fist, and Spider-Woman joining. Sort of a precursor of the underrated late 90s John Ostrander comic book Heroes For Hire.