Great review, Cobie. I can only add that the story felt like a backup padded out to full-issue length, and that I'm less lenient toward's Win Mortimer's art than you -- I think it's ugly and downright amateurish in spots. Some of Shooter's subsequent scripts will manage to rise above the art, though, IMO.
Adventure #373 Whatever happened to good old fashioned sleep learning? We not only get to see that being a super hero isn't at the expense of an education, but there's a fun shot at ever shifting educational methods. We don't get to see Phantom Girl's smarts too often, but Dirk was considered to be a good scientist.
We get some more glimpses into personal lives with Jeckie and Val getting closer and Jan getting further away from his date (cue theorising).
The issue is right up there with Proty sending the Legion on missions, just so they can pick a leader. A huge amount of risk for something comparatively mundane in the end.
It doesn't take long before relations between the Legion and the Tornado Twins deteriorate. Karate Kid feels particularly hard done by, having been beaten/saved by both twins.
But both groups come across as mean spirited. Don refers to Val as small time, while the Legion spend their time investigating the Allens' records or in the huff. Even the citizens are shown as fickle, turning their backs on the Legion. Seeing Val and Dirk give up is particularly miserable to read.
I'm reminded of Dirk years later in the 5YG. A combination of this attitude and his mutiny in space traits, made him resign the leadership. Even Superboy pauses before answering an alarm. In the end, it's all in the celebration of Barry Allen, The Flash. But I wonder what he would have made of how his descendants and the Legion had acted.
I do like the Tornado twins. Their costumes and powers made them a nice alternative to Superboy hogging all the super-feats. Liking them made their fate in the TMK run all the tougher. Dirk sat back and let that happen too, in a nod to this issue.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
It's been years since I read 373, but I agree that was a bit of a letdown. The entire mystery hinges on who the Tornado Twins are and why they do what they do, but if you already know that (as I did, from later stories), the payoff is not worth the effort.
I have to say I enjoyed the reviews of 372, a story I have stronger memories of. Even though the embryonic LSV doesn't get much of a showcase, it amazed me how much was crammed into the issue: Lightning Lord, Nemesis Kid, past Legion rejects, Duo Damsel (arguably one of the weakest Legionnaires) taking out NK (arguably one of their mightiest foes), Condo and Brin joining . . . the issue just rocks.
I want to like this issue more than I do, as it is a homage to one of my favorite TV shows, the original "Mission: Impossible", which was one of the hottest things on the airwaves at the time that this story was published -- complete with espionage, disguises, double-crosses, and best-laid-plans gone askew.
But I cannot. And a lot of the blame, in my opinion, should fall squarely on the shoulders of Win Mortimer. For all that could be criticized about Curt Swan, at least he was willing to evolve with the times as much as he could, and was open to input from young Jim Shooter. Mortimer, on the other hand, was, I think, a stodgy, old-fashioned hack whose work was the very personification of mediocrity. Compare the designs of the Taurus Gang to those of the Fatal Five, and it becomes clear how bereft of imagination Mortimer was.
But the fault is not all the artist's. Something else else about this script seems terribly off. The pacing is clumsy, the story beats aren't tight enough, and the cast is so overcrowded that the issue's nominal stars (almost all of them characters who were under-used at the time, such as Dream Girl, Element Lad, and Matter-Eater Lad, and Supergirl) hardly get to do anything of substance. Perhaps Shooter and Weisinger were having an off-day, or perhaps Weisinger, who was fast approaching retirement, wasn't putting the same care and attention into his work.
Nothing, however, can justify in my mind the creepiness of the ending, in which the formerly aloof Quanto now vows to make Mystelor more like the way she was when Dream Girl was pretending to be her -- in other words, force her to fit his definition of a good woman. The creepy misogyny of the Thora story seems to me to come more from Weisinger than Shooter, but the creepy misogyny of the scene described above is pure Shooter, especially when viewed in hindsight of the discomforting sexual politics which wormed their way into many of his later stories for both DC and Marvel.
The previous issue was merely mediocre. This issue is highly disappointing and completely unsettling.
I think you did an outstanding job of assessing 374, Fanfie. It's never been one of my favorite issues, either. There is something old fashioned about it, even by 1960s standards. Perhaps it is Mortimer's art. Perhaps it is the assumptions about women. In any case, there was a wonderful opportunity to introduce some new foes for the Legion that just didn't come off as well as it should have.
Yeah, one thing about the Post-Swan Adventure issues is that Shooter and Weisinger never stopped introducing new characters; at the same time, it's a shame that they didn't have a better artist and/or that both of them were not performing to the best of their abilities.
My impression of Win Mortimer is that his art pales in comparison to Swan's--but whose wouldn't? I actually like some of Mortimer's work on the Action run, when the stories were smaller and featured fewer characters. He was not as imaginative as Swan (or even Forte), but he had a few strengths, such as setting the mood of a story.
The situation is analogous to Mike Grell leaving the Legion a few years later and being replaced by Jim Sherman. Sherman is an outstanding artist in his own right, but he's not Grell. More, his art was very different from Grell's, and he was paired with inker Jack Abel, whose cartoony style was simply inappropriate for the Legion. It took me years to appreciate Sherman's style on its own merits because it was not the look of the Legion I was used to. I think Mortimer also suffers to some degree by being compared to who came before him.
Nothing, however, can justify in my mind the creepiness of the ending, in which the formerly aloof Quanto now vows to make Mystelor more like the way she was when Dream Girl was pretending to be her -- in other words, force her to fit his definition of a good woman. The creepy misogyny of the Thora story seems to me to come more from Weisinger than Shooter, but the creepy misogyny of the scene described above is pure Shooter, especially when viewed in hindsight of the discomforting sexual politics which wormed their way into many of his later stories for both DC and Marvel.
I read this differently. Earlier Quanto had declared his superiority to his colleagues, then said, "I was sent...to aid you. I do not try to comprehend the motives of my superiors! I obey!" Then when he observed the difference in Mystelor/Dream Girl, he noted that she was "nobler, better...as beautiful inside as...outside." I don't necessarily read misogyny in that. And considering that later he says, "I see my mission here--to change her...help her become as she should be...and perhaps the others, too."
In his arrogant and misguided way, he realized there was potential for his colleagues to be better beings (they were, after all, criminals), starting with Mystelor, and that he was there to help them with that.
While the sexual dynamic played a part in the relationship, the same self-discovery could have happened if Quanto had encountered Jo as Black Mace.
"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
My impression of Win Mortimer is that his art pales in comparison to Swan's--but whose wouldn't? I actually like some of Mortimer's work on the Action run, when the stories were smaller and featured fewer characters. He was not as imaginative as Swan (or even Forte), but he had a few strengths, such as setting the mood of a story.
The situation is analogous to Mike Grell leaving the Legion a few years later and being replaced by Jim Sherman. Sherman is an outstanding artist in his own right, but he's not Grell. More, his art was very different from Grell's, and he was paired with inker Jack Abel, whose cartoony style was simply inappropriate for the Legion. It took me years to appreciate Sherman's style on its own merits because it was not the look of the Legion I was used to. I think Mortimer also suffers to some degree by being compared to who came before him.
I agree. Grell was more dynamic and fluid that Sherman in my opinion, and some of Sherman's closeups were a little too blatantly photo-referenced.
Nothing, however, can justify in my mind the creepiness of the ending, in which the formerly aloof Quanto now vows to make Mystelor more like the way she was when Dream Girl was pretending to be her -- in other words, force her to fit his definition of a good woman. The creepy misogyny of the Thora story seems to me to come more from Weisinger than Shooter, but the creepy misogyny of the scene described above is pure Shooter, especially when viewed in hindsight of the discomforting sexual politics which wormed their way into many of his later stories for both DC and Marvel.
I read this differently. Earlier Quanto had declared his superiority to his colleagues, then said, "I was sent...to aid you. I do not try to comprehend the motives of my superiors! I obey!" Then when he observed the difference in Mystelor/Dream Girl, he noted that she was "nobler, better...as beautiful inside as...outside." I don't necessarily read misogyny in that. And considering that later he says, "I see my mission here--to change her...help her become as she should be...and perhaps the others, too."
In his arrogant and misguided way, he realized there was potential for his colleagues to be better beings (they were, after all, criminals), starting with Mystelor, and that he was there to help them with that.
While the sexual dynamic played a part in the relationship, the same self-discovery could have happened if Quanto had encountered Jo as Black Mace.
Be that as it may, the sexual element was there like the proverbial elephant in the room, and I'm not letting Shooter off the hook.
In her review, Fanfie really nails it with this story: a mediocre job by Shooter rendered into something worse by awful art courtesy of Win Mortimor. There are some positive things that please me as a longtime member of Legion fandom, but they are peripheral and don't change that this one is a lemon.
I can't really think of anything off hand by Mortimor besides his LSH stuff, so I'm not in a position to question his whole career. But whatever was going on with him at the tail end of the Silver Age wasn't good, because the art here is just bad.
The story itself, with Scorpio capturing the Legionnaires to battle Taurus is overly complex for the room allocated it. By the end you've got Scoprio, Taurus, Zoltorus, the other temporary chief, Brande, McCauley...whew! An interesting choice, for sure--I applaud the unusual pacing; but unfortunately it causes the story to feel lumpy. Perhaps with Swan this would have felt like a beautiful, failed experiment that still is a lot of fun. With no artistic support, the flaws are laid bare to see.
It isn't a total wash, though: we get to see Supergirl, Jan, Nura and Tenzil---all underused in recent years. I wonder if that was mandated from the top down? If so, that's never a great way to get a writer enthusiastic. Regardless, Dream Girl comes off well, especially her quick thinking to take Mystletor's place. A very capable, clever Legionnaire, that one.
I'm a big fan of Taurus and their somewhat obscure multi appearances. I remember starting a thread to that effect back in 2005 or 2006. I wish they had been used more thereafter; Black Mace is just too cool a moniker / visual not to show repeatedly. All that is an aside though--merely a side effect of being an LSH fanatic for so long. They actually don't come off so great here and aren't very memorable, beyond the barest hints.
My interpretation of Quanto is the same as Tracker's (though given Shooter's later work, I can see where Fanfie is coming from). I'd have loved to have seen a Quanto follow up a few years later, possibly explaining his mysterious home planet he hints at.
The Subs show up too, and by now those appearances have become few and far between. I like that, though it's already a pretty overcrowded story. The same pro & con apply to Leland McCauley, who makes his first appearance. But back to the Subs, I do like that they contribute nicely to the complete victory at the end.
A lot of those covers, especially the Batman ones, I recognize as my father and I have been hunting down issues from the pre-Sivler Age 50's era for the last few years. They're quite striking.
I think HWW's thought that his style was not as appropriate for the LSH definitely has merit.
I would also add my own theory: in the late 1960's, DC generally began to loosen up its house style. The driving force here was Carmen Infantino. For years he was essentially DC's #1 top non-Superman artist, and he had a lot of sway in the company, eventually becoming Art Director and then EiC. Part of that relates to his ongoing battle to get editorial to allow him to actually draw in his own style. He was under quite a bit of pressure to adhere to the general DC house style throughout the early Silver Age, despite his style being admittingly more nuanced and stylistic. Often, many of his inkers were directed to smooth out some of the rough edges in his art. Usually the result was beautiful, so he couldn't really complain (though he did...though no one listened).
Once Marvel started exploding and Kirby was crowned as King of the 60's, DC's editors were suddenly singing a different tune. Infantino, who was then a friend of Kirby's, saw it as a chance to really let his art breath, and he did. Thus, starting around 1965 or 1966, you see Infantino's art changing dramatically in Flash and other series. It takes on a sharper, more stylized look as he draw the way he wanted and inkers went along with the program. He was supported from the top down to the extant that eventually he was promoted over most of his old bosses.
Another result of all of this is the general loosening up of art styles at DC across the board. Nick Cardy was allowed to truly showcase his art, while Neal Adams had almost free reign to be himself. Other artists were allowed to experiment.
A downside of this is that several artists may not have flourished but instead been overwhelmed by this free reign. Either so ingrained in the house style, or so used to inkers covering for them, their art didn't really hold up as the company's infrastructure and philosophy changes. Such is the case in any industry or corporation.
Win Mortimor may have been one of them. He'd been around a long time, and had perhaps grown so accustomed to the old way of doing things that when DC suddenly began to change, he found himself trying to change with it but falling short.
The artwork on the LSH when compared to those covers is noticably different. It's scratchier, and it's also clunkier. While still using stock layouts of the 50's, the linework is more stylized. It's clearly a different Mortimor.
At least, that's my personal theory that I've developed in the last 24 hours.
It's worth noting that Mortimer's assignment immediately (or at least not long before) his Legion run was on Stanley and his Monster, a *very* different book than the Legion, and perhaps one much more suited to him.
Nothing, however, can justify in my mind the creepiness of the ending, in which the formerly aloof Quanto now vows to make Mystelor more like the way she was when Dream Girl was pretending to be her -- in other words, force her to fit his definition of a good woman. The creepy misogyny of the Thora story seems to me to come more from Weisinger than Shooter, but the creepy misogyny of the scene described above is pure Shooter, especially when viewed in hindsight of the discomforting sexual politics which wormed their way into many of his later stories for both DC and Marvel.
I read this differently. Earlier Quanto had declared his superiority to his colleagues, then said, "I was sent...to aid you. I do not try to comprehend the motives of my superiors! I obey!" Then when he observed the difference in Mystelor/Dream Girl, he noted that she was "nobler, better...as beautiful inside as...outside." I don't necessarily read misogyny in that. And considering that later he says, "I see my mission here--to change her...help her become as she should be...and perhaps the others, too."
In his arrogant and misguided way, he realized there was potential for his colleagues to be better beings (they were, after all, criminals), starting with Mystelor, and that he was there to help them with that.
While the sexual dynamic played a part in the relationship, the same self-discovery could have happened if Quanto had encountered Jo as Black Mace.
Be that as it may, the sexual element was there like the proverbial elephant in the room, and I'm not letting Shooter off the hook.
I understand where you're coming from, Fanfie. Not to belabor this issue nor to disagree with you...I just found myself thinking about it at lunch today. Quanto never says or does anything that hints at his sexual preference or his attitude toward females. As he states, he believes he's racially superior to Mystelor and the others.
If we're looking for hints about Shooter's attitude toward women, we might look at how he portrayed Mystelor herself. Although her powers would have enabled her to handle Shagrek's unwanted advances, instead she ran to Quanto for help, possibly as an effort at seduction. Still, that in itself is more "of the time" representative female behavior than it is particularly misogyny on Shooter's part. But as you say, taken with later stories, it may be a clue.
"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
In her review, Fanfie really nails it with this story: a mediocre job by Shooter rendered into something worse by awful art courtesy of Win Mortimor. There are some positive things that please me as a longtime member of Legion fandom, but they are peripheral and don't change that this one is a lemon.
The story itself, with Scorpio capturing the Legionnaires to battle Taurus is overly complex for the room allocated it. By the end you've got Scoprio, Taurus, Zoltorus, the other temporary chief, Brande, McCauley...whew! An interesting choice, for sure--I applaud the unusual pacing; but unfortunately it causes the story to feel lumpy. Perhaps with Swan this would have felt like a beautiful, failed experiment that still is a lot of fun. With no artistic support, the flaws are laid bare to see.
The Subs show up too, and by now those appearances have become few and far between. I like that, though it's already a pretty overcrowded story. The same pro & con apply to Leland McCauley, who makes his first appearance. But back to the Subs, I do like that they contribute nicely to the complete victory at the end.
I don't think this story and art are so bad. Yes, there's too much content for one issue but I found the story easy to follow and graphically dynamic. The most difficult to follow part was when the Legionnaires had covered their uniforms; I had to stop and figure out each character in every panel.
From a literary and artistic viewpoint the book may be sub-par. But it was fun to see so much packed into one issue. When I first read it years ago, and even reading it now, I felt like I got my money's worth, which I rarely feel with today's comics.
That said, it would have been fun if the creators had expanded several aspects of this story. The Legion Subs, for example, had a successful side-mission and saved the Legionnaires in the end. While that was an element of surprise, it would have been nice to see more of their part of the adventure, perhaps as a backup story.
"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
Wow, I can't believe some of you guys liked Grell better than Sherman. I thought Sherman was a better artist by far.
I also think you're being overly harsh in your critique of this story and Mortimer's art. Was he as good as Swan? Of course not, but he has a nice, clean, fluid style imho. Look at the bright side: they could've had Mooney or Costanza draw this story. Blecch.
I think there's a lot to like in this story. Nearly every Legionnaire appears, including the Subs and as mentioned, 4 of the most under featured Legionnaires get the spotlight, not to mention the almost unheard of concept of a female Legionnaire saving the day (as opposed to Superboy in every other story), let alone the rarely featured Dream Girl. The various traps used to capture the different teams of Legionnaires were fun and inventive too. I also liked Quanto's reformation and his epiphany that his mission is to try and convince Mystelor and the others to become better people. Dream Girl is the only Legionnaire missing in the following issue. I have a fantasy that she's off trying to help Quanto and/or having a romantic fling with him.
What I find lacking is the basic premise. Here we have an organization that is powerful enough to capture THE ENTIRE LEGION, yet they can't deal with 5 super-powered villains? And the 6 Subs, whose powers are mediocre at best, succeed in taking down the organization that have captured THE ENTIRE LEGION in a few panels? Also, Zoltorus has captured RJ Brande and seized his funds to build a crime empire. Hello? You've already got control of the biggest bank account IN THE UNIVERSE! Who needs a crime empire? And at the end, the Legionnaires are ready to just waltz out the door and go home without even trying to apprehend the goons who kidnapped them and held them hostage. And if the goons were going to kill them all anyway, why release them first? That just gave them the chance to escape and/or defeat the miscreants. This is a perfect example of the basic plot just not making any sense. You pull that thread loose and the rest of it falls apart.
I'm definitely going to have to re-read 374 at some point.
Yes, Jim, I did prefer Grell to Sherman. Grell provided a nice transition from Cockrum, whose art I adored. Grell's art was initially similar to Dave's, but developed in a more stylized fashion. Basically, Mike took the disco-style fashions on the '70s and made them seem futuristic (at least they did to me at the time.) Sherman was an extreme departure from all that.
As I alluded to, above, I grew to appreciate Sherman in later years, but I think it takes a rather mature or more experienced outlook than I was capable of at the time.
I've been absent from these discussions for a while, but since I lost my job 2 months ago I've had some time on my hands so I guess I could go back and post the letter columns that I've missed if anyone would be interested. Anybody know what the last one I posted was offhand?
Like Fanfie, I love Jim Mooney too. Flat out love his art!
And I also prefer Grell to Sherman--Grell's art on the LSH is a personal favorite for me, only becoming more so as I get older. (I also like Sherman too, but I never experienced the transition as it happened).
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