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Green Arrow Vol. 2 #5

In which, after Batman's tests prove inconclusive, Ollie and Batman team up and head for Star City and the old, dilapidated Queen estate, where they're ambushed by Etrigan the Demon. Meanwhile, Mia meets Roy and Dinah.

Spoiler's not well-written here, and Phil Hester draws her looking too much like Mia.

On the other hand, some of the banter between Ollie and Batman is priceless. Love the "prep schools" exchange.

And as someone who hated the Grell-era costume, I was very pleased when Ollie made fun of it.

I will still be reviewing the remaining 10 Kevin Smith issues of Green Arrow sometime within the next few weeks. I've just had a lot of stuff going on lately.

Lardy, are we still going to do the PAD Hulk re-read right after the Holidays?

I haven't had time to locate my Hulks yet, so it's difficult to commit as yet.

Okay. Just thought I'd ask before the holidays got under way.

Please keep me posted. It would be wonderful if we could do it.

Update: if you've seen my recent posts in other threads, you already know that I've spontaneously embarked on a major Alan Davis re-read (I'm keeping my thoughts on that work in the All-Alan Davis thread) and that I have a Top Secret fanfic project I just started.

Point being, I don't think I'm going to get around to finishing my Green Arrow reviews for this thread. Sorry to everyone who was following them.

Sorry, also, for failing to follow through on two Re-Reads in a row.

But I'm still planning my PAD Hulk Re-Read for January. And nothing is going to stop me from following through on that one -- I love that run so much!

And, Lardy, just a reminder to please keep me posted on whether or not you'll be able to join me. And if you, or any other Legion Worlder who is a fan of that run, aren't able to join me, I hope you all will at least chime in with your memories of PAD's Hulk.

At this point, probably not because of the material not being handy. Even if it was, there's a lot of material vying for my attention right now, so such a massive project would seem impractical at this time.

I look forward to reading your comments, though, and expect to chime in as you go.

Also, changed thread title to reflect the upcoming project.

Okay, Lardy. I certainly understand. I'm glad you'll at least be chiming in with your PAD Hulk memories.

And thanks for changing the thread title.

PRELUDE TO THE PETER DAVID HULK RE-READ

In early 1987, the Incredible Hulk was in danger of cancellation. After writer/artist John Byrne quit the Hulk, and Marvel altogether, after only six issues and one annual, the Hulk's reins were handed to writer/artist Al Milgrom, who spend the next year dragging the book and its lead characters through the mud. The one bright spot was issue #328, a trippy, hallucinatory fill-in issue written by Peter David, whose excellent run on Spectacular Spider-Man had been cut short by company politics. According to PAD, Milgrom was on his way out, and Hulk editor Bob Harras was so desperate to find a replacement that Harras overlooked the Spidey mess and offered the Hulk to PAD. As it happened, PAD had never been a fan of the Hulk, and sales were so bad, he expected to last six months at the most. Little did he know...

Here's the situation that PAD inherited when he took over the Hulk:

- The Hulk and Bruce Banner were separated during the brief Byrne era. Banner and Betty Ross finally got married, but Banner started to die without the Hulk, so they were re-integrated, but a pseudo-scientific glitch caused Banner to become the thuggish grey Hulk from the earliest Hulk stories, while the Hulk's off-and-on sidekick, Rick Jones, became the new dumb green Hulk.

- The Hulkbusters, introduced during Byrne's run, were a group of specialists put together for the express purpose of hunting down and capturing the Hulk.

- The perpetual human thorn in the Hulk's side, Betty's father General "Thunderbolt" Ross, merged with an old Hulk rogue, Zzaxx, and ended up dead.

- Doc Samson was possessed by an icky creature who was exterminated in Milgrom's last issue, which was also the first issue pencilled by Todd McFarlane, who, after his flashy work on Infinity Inc, was being forced by Marvel to re-learn the basics of storytelling.

Got all that? Good. See you tomorrow with my review of Incredible Hulk #331, PAD's first issue as the ongoing writer.

I've never really read that much Hulk stuff beyond a few scattered issues of PAD's run so I'll be sure to follow your reading marathon, Fanfie.

Thanks, Indy. Welcome aboard.

Thanks for the Previously in Hulk post Fickles.

Like Ibby, I've never been a Hulk reader, so that was a big help.

You're very welcome, Thoth. Welcome aboard.

Incredible Hulk #331 (May 1987)

SYNOPSIS: The Hulkbusters have a disastrous confrontation with the Rick Jones Green Hulk; Bruce Banner decides that desperate times call for desperate measures, so he deliberately transforms himself into the thuggish Grey Hulk, not realizing until it's too late that the Hulk was subconsciously influencing him to take this action; the Grey Hulk is approached by Sam Sterns, formerly the Hulk's arch-foe, the Leader (who earlier in the issue stole the dead body of General Thunderbolt Ross) who has a plan to rid the world of both Bruce Banner and Rick Jones permanently.

REVIEW: There's a LOT going on this issue, all of it good, even the brief scene at the police station with Betty's first husband, the Latin stereotype Ramon, a character whom I assume comes from some late-period Bill Mantlo issue I haven't read (if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.) Yes, PAD is tying together ALL 25 years of the Hulk continuity, and doing so seamlessly and accessibly.

The Hulkbusters finally start to get some substantial characterization -- the dangerously obsessive LaRoquette, the gung-ho Saunders, and the more sensible Martel and Hideko.

McFarlane's art is still a work in progress, but even at this point he's already good with the action sequences.

All in all, a triumphant arrival for PAD.

Incredible Hulk #332 (June 1987)

SYNOPSIS: The Hulkbusters' SHIELD liaison, Clay Quartermain, secretly authorizes the now-over-the-edge LaRoquette to take a tank and go hunting for Rick Jones. When Doc Samson finds out, he stops LaRoquette by force, allowing Rick to escape. Then, the Grey Hulk lures the Green Hulk into a trap set by himself and Sam Sterns, wherein a hastily assembled device siphons the Gamma radiation out of Rick and into Sterns, who once again becomes the Leader. The device then shorts out and explodes.

REVIEW: Whereas PAD's first issue was action-driven, this one is character-driven, delving into the psychology of not only the Hulk, but also those he affects. As Doc Samson points out, what is happening to LaRoquette is exactly what happened to Thunderbolt Ross before him: an all-consuming obsession with destroying the Hulk which ultimately turns them into something just as monstrous.

It does strain credibility a bit that the Grey Hulk and Sterns could assemble such a device in so little time, even with the caveat that PAD adds. But I don't think it strains it to the breaking point. And it is, after all, a superhero comic book.

For a book he didn't like and with little hope for a future on it, PAD certainly doesn't sit back if he's pulling together 25 years of the title together.

It's interesting that you can pretty much drop into a book decades apart and still see much the same cast. Once that formula is in place, it doesn't often stray far. For me, the Leader, Jones and the Ross' are the key identifiers in a Hulk comic. Could PAD be looking to bring back those foundations?

I'm also looking forward to seeing if the Hulk Busters actually get to bust a Hulk. While it would kill the book, they've never struck me as being terribly successful, considering how much the Hulk is at large.

Enjoying the capsule reviews, Fickles.

Oh, I forgot. Did the Leader come after Green Lantern's Hector Hammond in the large head department?

Thanks for the kind words, Thoth. Glad you're enjoying.

It was PAD's idea to bring back the Leader (whose new mutation leaves with with a head that looks less like a cucumber and more like broccoli), but it was Byrne who brought Betty and Rick back into the book.

And, yes, Hector Hammond came before the Leader.

I think we'll find that the key success of this run will hinge on PAD knowing when to Brocolli when others would have cucumbered.



A Marvel spokesman stated that the cucumbered headed, wheelchair bound leader of a band of societal outcasts is a complete coincidence.

Thoth, LOL

Personally, I think both broccoli and cucumbers are equally vile. I prefer spinach or lettuce.

Lettuce remember that spinach is the super power property of Popeye.

And spinach is green. Coincidence?

Olive Oyl: Which testing range did ya say this Spinach came from Popeye?

LOL

This proves my old memory is faulty. I'd thought that PAD immediately followed Byrne. I feel bad about that because I should have known that a plot point as (putting it kindly) ill-advised as the Rick Jones Hulk wouldn't have come from him, not even at this early point in his career. I mean, RJ Hulk looks ridiculous with his poofy sorta-mullet and his toned-down physique!

That said, PAD did a great job making lemons out of lemonade. As Le Ficque describes it, it's clear he didn't miss a pitch and just knocked it out of the park! While quickly writing out the RJ Hulk, he had him serve a greater purpose by bringing back the Leader better than ever and immediately putting the wheels in motion to bring back Thunderbolt Ross. (As thoth says, he's an essential cast member.) And then there's all the greatness to come with the Gray Hulk....

I picked up the Hulk for the first time when Byrne took over. For the longest, I'd follow him to any book he went on as he was, and remains to some degree in a historical context, my favorite artist/writer. I'm glad I jumped on when I did and especially that I kept on reading after Byrne left, even through the mediocre-at-best Milgrom run. PAD builds on all of that so well, seamlessly, I'd say. And, of course, if PAD's run on the Hulk isn't the very best on the character ever (and one of the best by any writer, imo), I'd be interested to see evidence to the contrary.

In my mind Hulk was a book with very limited character development before PAD just totally reinvented how to handle the character. Before him, what was the highlight? The Jarella stories? Honestly, I'd be surprised if the book ever approached the quality of PAD's run, before or after his long, great run.

Very well said, Lardy. And if I may be so bold, I'd say that PAD's reinvention of the Hulk would be just as well-regarded as Alan Moore's reinvention of Swamp Thing, if only PAD had had a top-caliber artist from the get-go. Even though McFarlane had improved a lot by the time he left, his style was a bit too weird, and I think Jeff Purves was just phoning it most of the time. It took Dale Keown's artistry to take the Hulk to a Moore/Bissette level.

As for pre-PAD Hulk, I think Steve Englehart (who could do no wrong in the early 70s), Len Wein (who genuinely loved the dumb green Hulk), and Roger Stern (who could do no wrong in the late 70s/early 80s) all had respectable Hulk runs; Byrne, too, even though he left so quickly (although I think the best Byrne Hulk issue was the Sal Buscema-drawn Annual 14). But all of those runs pale in comparison to PAD's, in my opinion.