Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 8

(See the previous threads on Archives #7, Archives #6, Archives #5, Archives #4, Archives #3, Archives #2 and Archives #1 and feel free to add in your two cents on those stories. It's NEVER too late! )


For the next month or two, we'll be reading and discussing the stories re-printed in Legion of Super-Heroes Archives Volume 8. Archives 8 looks a li'l somethin' like this:



And, hey, if you actually OWN this sumbitch and paid something around or below cover price, then consider yerself LUCKY! This thang is RARE and fetching prices sometimes north of $200--more than decent copies of some of the originals reprinted therein!

The goal here is to read and review approximately one story a week. If it's a 2-parter, then it counts as one story. We cool?

Anyhow, other than its value on the after-market, Archives 8 is significant because it represents the end of the Legion's classic run on Adventure Comics. There are some great, significant stories to close out the Adventure run, so there should be much to discuss!

For those of you who own the floppies or are following in Showcase, the stories reprinted within are, in order:

Adventure 368, Superboy 147, Adventure 369-76

So....let's go Legionnaires!

It looks like Karate Kid is doing the Twist on that cover.

(For you youngsters, the Twist was a groovy mid-20th century dance. Of course, if you're a hipster, you'd know that.)

Let's twist again, like we did last summer.

Btw, I didn't realize Supes #147 is not until after Adv #368--I stated otherwise on the last thread. Given that it's an 8 pager, I'm wondering if we should just squeeze it in at the end of this week for good measure?

Fine with me. No reason to waste a whole week on a shortie.

I'm glad you guys made that decision. As I said in the Archives #7 thread, the Showcase Presents volume doesn't have that eight-pager.

Despite KK's goofy pose, I like that cover. Is it Jerry Ordway? Or Dan Jurgens inked by Ordway?

Superboy #147 was an 80-page Giant with 6 Legion-related stories. When you refer to the 8-pager, is it "The Origin of the Legion" story?

Yep.

The Archive credits the cover to Jurgens and Kesel.

Ah, okay. Thanks, Lardy. At least I got the penciler right.

Kesel's just as great an inker as Ordway, and they probably have similar influences.

Adventure #368

I have to admit that I never cared much for this story in the past. I never thought much of Thora at all, either. That is until I experienced the ongoing brilliance of Lash, Teeds, Eryk, FC and others on a regular basis, which caused Thora to become a lifelong favorite in an ironic, hilarious way. But much like Dr. Mayavale, while I find the issue enjoyable when looking at it as ridiculous farce, it doesn't do much for me if I take it at all serious.

Women's Lib and feminism were exploding across American campuses and were on the minds of a lot of people. Comics, like other media, reacted to that--either to tap into current concerns or to just outright exploit it. More often that not, they got it wrong.

Its so much fun to watch the Legionnaires develop from the clean cut 1958 era to the Cockrum era, growing and maturing all the way. This isn't that. This is a step in the wrong direction, thankfully long forgotten. Neither the boys nor the girls come off well here.

It's also one of the last stories in which Supergirl is a premiere player, which is unfortunate. There's an untold take somewhere of the last truly great Silver Age story of Supergirl on the active roster of the LSH.

Things I did like:

- Val continues to be the leading man of this era and I'm not bothered by it.

- "what do you think of this color, Vi?"; and thus Imra starts to consider the sexy look she'll have in the 70's--maybe Thora influenced her after all!

- the letters page announces my boy Ultra Boy as the LSH Leader (along with Mon-El as Deputy Leader).

- Shady instantly choosing Brainy as her slave, which triggers Supergirl to get jealous and resist more. Still enjoying the Shady / Brainy connection!

- "what an ugly cuss, must be male!". Ok, maybe still that ironic hilarity.

All in all though, not much to like. The ending also seems totally out of left field, talk about "boy that escalated quickly!" Suicide? The story truly doesn't hold up when the stakes feel so low to the reader but so high to the characters. It's too bad but Thora has had a much better, more dignified second life on Legion World.

1 more issue to go!

Adventure #368

Another late purchase for me. So, I missed out on the ads in the inside cover. I wonder how many kids are now running small countries from their tanks or looking forward to their prison release date following arrest for peeping.

Shooter's favourite gets to start off the story. Since Val presumably spends a lot of is time training, it's not a shock to see him doing it here. That the uniformed figure turns out to be Superboy and not a robot, or a danger room type simulation is a nice touch. It's also a reminder of Karate Kid's first appearance. We get another peek into his personal life, through his weapons collection and what they mean to him. With this sort of exposure, I can see why he could be a favourite for fans picking up the book around this time.
Superboy and Supergirl sit at a table and wait for it to get launched through a roof. The things they do to try and fit in with the others.

I thought the rocket disaster was quite dramatic. The shocked Legionnaire illuminated in the blast of the crash; the desperate emergency crews racing against time to get the crew free. This adds to the impact and strength of Thora's appearance from the wreckage. It's bumped a bit by the awkward "..a woman." comment from Star Boy. We miss someone hitting Thom about the head, as Lyle explains the Legion's actual thoughts on equality to the refreshingly incredulous Thora.

After Thora drops a few "I'm the villainess" hints, we see the Legion girls finish off their dorm, little suspecting that the chameleoid rug is Cham in disguise.

Statuettes play an important part in Legion lore. From Superboy's secret hideout to Dr Regulus' cover scorecard. Here, they become Legion fetishes enabling Thora to gain influence over them. There are a couple of panels that remind me of the later Titans villain, Houngan. In the crimson light of her alien science, the tension is increased as Thora talks about the beginning of the end.

The split in the Legion doesn't come from Thora being stronger, faster or being a hugely powerful, and dull, villain. It doesn't come from impostors or infiltrators or power loss. It comes form addingpower to the Legion. It's a lovely switch from so many other comics, and highlights the craft of the plotting and writing.

There's a tendency with comics characters to continually increase their power over time. Superman became stronger and tougher, Batman became more and more of an obsessed jerk, Lantern and Manhunter lost their vulnerabilities.

With this issue, there are only slight tweaks. Small changes that really add a lot of power. Luornu can create lots of duplicates, also providing a possible answer to why losing two bodies didn't kill her. Tinya can touch objects while phased. Something else else the Avengers' Vision used regularly. Salu could rival Colossal Boy in size while Tasmia and Ayla had the limits of their powers increased.

There's a bit of thought behind each of these and they all work effectively. Compare this with any number of "just because" powers and motivations elsewhere.

I like to think that, as mentioned for other heroes, Thora has unlocked the potential powers these Legionnaires possess. In future issues, we did get to see some of these Legionnaires develop similar abilities.

Thora's influence finally comes through the Legionnaires caring for each other. Lyle worries that the girls have contracted something. He isn't too wrong. The girls only break their quarantine when they think the boys are in deadly danger. Only then does the fighting start. I smile as Thom does indeed get slapped around the head.

Despite sizing Brainy up as a mate in earlier issues, Tasmia isn't terribly bothered about the relationship being on an equal footing. It's Supergirl's genuine love for Querl that breaks Thora's spell. A fairly tale moment in a sci-fi setting.

As the boys plan and Supergirl waits for her moment, we see the heroines in action. They do a great job. It's not only that the increased power make for some great visuals such as the towering Salu or Jeckie's terrifying creature. It's that they work really well together as a team too.

Thora is finally undone when she pushes her power too far. Supergirl's plan works like a charm when Thora tries to get the girls to dispose of the boys forever.

It's a shame Thora didn't live through the end of the story, and that her world changed in her absence. A regular reminder of the story's moral wouldn't go amiss today. Thora was a little single track and I guess with the point made, the writers thought it best to move along.

The art from the Adams cover to Swan's interiors is excellent, adding so much to a story I enjoy more with each reading.

I feel about this issue pretty much like Cobalt Kid does. It just seems awkward, and as Cobie said, "neither the boys nor the girls come off well." At least the writer didn't resort to having the boys assert their dominance other than having Legion leader Invisible Kid unnecessarily shout "that's an order" to the girls more than once.

Unfortunately, the mind-control aspect reminded me of other stories in which the females, being of "weaker mind", were more susceptible to being controlled by someone else than their male partners/counterparts were. I wonder how this story would have come across if Thora had been "Thoron," a male who had a different motive for boosting the girls' powers.

I remind myself to put this story in its historical place in the continuum of gender-related social change. The 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, giving women the right to vote, had been ratified only 48 years earlier. People were still trying to figure out what gender equality meant and how it worked in real life. (Well, we still are.)

I must say that thothkins' insightful review brought more life to this issue than I thought possible. If I had time now, I'd chime on various points you made. Man, that would be so much simpler if we were all sitting in a room together.

Yeah, I agree that Thoth has a really excellent viewpoint that made me rethink this story a bit. There are a lot of good points that I missed since I was so turned off to the concept of the story: the dramatic (and beautifully drawn) crash landing and the idea of increasing the heroes power to cause division, which was not a common idea then.

Also, I agree that the art remains terrific. I never realized Swan's "giant Vi" and the army of Luornu's are probably what inspired later versions of those characters. They are drawn incredibly well here and are very exciting.

It's amazing how much has changed since then to now. I've never not known women in the workplace. Roe v Wade took place 8 years before I was even born. Gender issues are ongoing and things aren't perfect by a longshot (with all one needs to do is spend some time on the internet to see some pretty childish things) but certainly great progress has been made. The world is a very different place.

My main problem with this story is the trite "surprise" ending with Supergirl's booby trap. Why didn't she just snatch the bracelet off Thora and haul her off to the hoosegow as soon as she discovered she was the villain? Why bother waiting around for her to use her bracelet and blow her cover? Meanwhile the boys were taking their lumps from the brainwashed girls. Thanks, Kara.

Superboy #147

Ah! A LSH story I've never read before! As luck would have, my Dad and I randomly have Superboy #147, which is great because our Silver Age Superboy collection is super spotty. We also have Secret Origins #6 randomly, which reprints the story. Yet, this is my first read. Amazing that I know all of the various tidbits through other sources...then again, 20+ years as a diehard LSH fan and 15 as a message board legend certainly help.

It's funny how this story is in Superboy instead of Adventure--the last major LSH related Superboy story in the Silver Age. I wonder how much this was influenced by fan theories of the Legionnaires at Superboy's induction, and speculation on how RJ Brande fit in after Bridwell's first story. Since he wrote this one, chances seem high. The late 60's were an era where comic books fans became comic book writers and these sorts of questions started getting answers.

And in that regard, Bridwell delivers in spades. If you're a reader (young or otherwise) who likes clear, concise continuity without dwelling on it, then this 8 pager gives you a wonderful syrupy dose of it. Bridwell ties a bunch of tidbits we've gotten hints of over the past decade into the cohesive origin we know today. Nods to Mekt, the Garth / Imra romance, the constitution, and other things are done just perfect--making this story a great reason why sometimes it's better to do the origin after the fact when it can be informed by the canon.

I also love the additions, of course. Imra's intent to join the science police, for one, is a throwaway line for 25 years before it pays off dividends in the reboot.

Even better, the order of membership is further canonized as Luornu and then Tinya officially are shown as the 4th and 5th members. Given what we know already, this makes the order just about discernible except for two or three Legionnaires (which will eventually be confirmed).

All in all, a quick, fun story. I'm glad to have finally read it! The experience is greatly enhanced by knowing how much it influenced Mark Waid's first two issues of the reboot.

What's interesting is my Secret Origins issue has one additional panel at the end: the bottom third of the page has Invisible Kid talking directly to the readers telling us to check out "one of the biggest Legion doings yet--A WEDDING! In the gala 200th issue!" In the background are a handful of Legionnaires but in their Adventure costumes even though this was printed in 1974.

Adventure 368

What hasn't been pointed out yet about this issue is that it's the last one to be inked by George Klein, who in what turned out to be the final year of his life would be working for Marvel, after being laid off by DC along with Jim Mooney and other great artistic talents. Swan would stay at DC, but would only pencil three-and-a-half more issues of Adventure, inked by Jack Abel, who didn't have a fraction of Klein's finesse. Then the likes of Win Mortimer and George Tuska would ill-serve the Legion artistically. This is truly the end of an era, and the Legion wouldn't look this good again until the Cockrum/Grell era.

Other than the visuals, I cannot find any redeeming qualities in this story. Unlike Cobie and LT and others, I don't find any ironic pleasures in it. Unlike Thoth, I don't think the hints of the ladies' potential transcend the wrong-headedness of the catalyst, Thora, or the misogyny of Jim Shooter, which would only increase exponentially in some of his subsequent Legion stories (it rears its ugly head again most egregiously at the end of the Taurus Gang story.)

I guess my biggest disappointment in this story is not the misogyny of Shooter, from whom I'd expect such attitudes, but the inferred misogyny of Mort Weisinger, who admittedly came from a less enlightened generation, but who had always walked a fine line with the Adventure era Legion and the Silver Age Superman mythos in general. Supergirl and the other ladies of the Legion were characters way ahead of their time, while Lois and Lana in the Superman books were at least on equal footing in satirical terms as the male characters. I can't help but be reminded of Paul Levitz, who characterized some of the female Legionnaires so wonderfully, only to out himself as a sexist in an interview a few years ago, or of Roger Stern, who wrote the best female Avengers since Steve Englehart, but who as an editor was (allegedly) the prime mover behind the death of the Phoenix in X-Men.

And so, farewell, George Klein. Wish your DC career had ended on a higher note. The Avengers' gain would be the Legion's loss. Wish you had stayed around a lot longer, or at least the exact same amount of time as Curt Swan.

I don't know how I forgot to mention this in my Adventure 368 review in the above post, but I was very unhappy with how badly Shadow Lass comes off in this story. Even under the influence of Thora, Shadow Lass's fantasies about wanting to dominate Brainy are bit extreme.

Superboy 147

For a sci-fi team that has adventures across the galaxy, the origin of the Legion shows that they had simpler beginnings.

There can be a tendency to over elaborate origins. Hordes of 30th century heroes and the descendant of Rex the Wonder Dog didn't fight a cosmic menace.

We don't get a team of 20 heroes at the first meeting either, as could have been the case from the first Legion appearance. The team grows gradually, with it's inspirations and goals crystal clear. Those inspirations lead perfectly into the Legion traveling in time to recruit the Kryptonians.

The mystery behind RJ Brande is revealed, which builds on the work in #350. With Lightning/ Light Lass revealed earlier in the run, the Ranzz origin works smoothly into the story.

Three of the first five members being female is also a great switch from years and years of having token representation in other books.

It's a well crafted short, giving just enough detail to get an understanding of the team, without creating any further problems.

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in the Thora issue--I mean not a single flogging or threat thereof! Thora has certainly benefited from our use of her here on LW; it's evident because Shooter gave her very little personality.

But I must admit that Swan and Klein certainly made her look beautiful! You typically expect villainesses in older comics to either be unattractive or have their features marred by a perpetual sneer or otherwise haughty expressions. For the most part she was pretty, though a bit Romulan in look and attire.

Thora's suicide at the end was pretty dark and overall unnecessary. It was also so abrupt, and the Legionnaires seemed to take in in stride. Part of me thought that maybe there was time to save her, and maybe the Legionnaires would pull it off. I'm sure it's mostly her use here on LW, but I couldn't help but think she had potential if used again and further developed. The LSH hasn't exactly blessed with major female villains beyond the Emerald Empress and Glorith (a big presence in 5YL), so it's hard not to wonder "what if?"

Otherwise, the story was pretty forgettable to bad. It was a struggle to get through, actually. I did like, however, that Kara's feelings for Brainy helped her overcome the brainwashing. A good moment for her in what Cobie correctly characterizes as an overall scarcity in appearing significantly in LSH stories in the recent past and certainly in future stories. Makes me wonder, though, why then-established loves like Imra for Garth and Nura for Thom weren't strong enough to overcome their brainwashing when Brainy and Kara weren't even relatively serious? It's a nice moment, though, for those of us (like me) that like to think of what might have been between the two.

Again, another curtain call for another trope of the dying Silver Age era, this time the girl's revolting. Unlike the recent Super-Pets callback that I enjoyed, this one missed the mark.

As for the origin story from Superboy 147, I didn't really feel anything particular while reading it. It's not badly told, but the details are so ingrained that there wasn't anything new to discover. I am glad, though, that Bridwell wrote an origin story because it is iconic and a huge staple in Legion lore. I'm actually surprised it came so late in the Silver Age. I guess that's because several of the salient points had already been established, but it's notable that the story was published less than a year before the classic Adventure era would end.

By the way, it's just occurred to me (while trying to recall which Legion romances were active at the time of the thora story) that Bouncing Boy has been probably the scarcest active Legionnaire during Shooter's tenure to this point! I suppose it's not surprising, considering he seems to be every writer's favorite to write out. But considering that Bridwell "Kitchen Sink" story brought him back into the fold near the beginning of Shooter's tenure, it's a bit surprising. Shooter didn't write him out, he just pretty much ignored him! Chuck barely cameod in that Morlo 2-parter, but I'm at a loss to recall any other Shooter story up to this point that he played any kind of role in.

LOL




Yep, nothing but a one-note caricature.



I hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, I agree. The Legionnaires were extremely callous here. More unbound misogyny.



But was it really worth Shadow Lass coming off so badly?

I don't think she came off that badly. I looked again, and the sequence came immediately after Thora gave the statues another dose stated to be aimed directly at the girls' minds. So we can't really hold that so much against Tasmia (or Shooter by extension). You can view it as having the effect of perverting whatever attraction Querl and Tasmia briefly shared during that Fatal Five adventure. I think the fact that Kara was the only one to break through says something about the true depth of her feelings for him, something she may never have realized or acknowledged on more than a subconscious level.

Point well taken, Lardy. I guess I dislike this story so much I tend to overlook details such as that one on the rare occassions that I re-read it.