Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 8

Kara states that it was her "super-will" that snapped Thora's control. Imra and Nura may have deeper feelings for their beaux, but they just didn't have super-will. (Although I would argue that those two have above-average will. )

In his comments on the previous issue (#367) Lardy wondered if we would ever see the clubhouse ejector seats again. They're flinging Legionnaires into the sky in this issue.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Particularly across a millennium. Oh, and it keeps a Super-character front and center.



It's a bit extreme, but then that's Thora's power I guess. And it had to be something extreme to provoke Supergirl. "I'd limit his lab time" might not have worked too well.

With the hindsight of future issues, I quite like the idea of Shady being a bit aggressively dominant here. Her normal toned down self, does assertively look for a relationship. She finds it with someone a lot of people might have found really intimidating. Not a bit of it with Shady who's the stronger personality of the couple.

That little bit of having servants at all, might work quite well into the personality of someone from the cities, and not the hills, of Talok. Someone who comes from a lineage of hereditary protectors too.

It makes Shady less than a perfect person, and I think that's more interesting.



And next issue Jeckie forgets her flight ring! >splat<

Yes, in hindsight, everything you say makes perfect sense. But I imagine readers at the time who might have liked her a lot in her first appearance feeling let down by the way she was portrayed here and in the Mordru story (I'll get to the specifics of the latter...very soon.)

I agree that Shooter makes everyone look bad, but does give story reasons for why that happens. Still, I can easily see how the Shady scene can be incredibly annoying to Fanfie and others, even with the very good insight Thoth gives to her background.

All in all, I think this just wasn't one of Shooter's best, and it stands out because IMO he is providing exceptionally good stories at this point. Particularly, the next one...

Adventure #369

And so we come to another high point in LSH history, the first Mordru story, which I feel remains one of the greatest stories in Legion history, particularly the first part in #369. Here Shooter just up and does it again, building the franchise in a huge way and evolving the Legionnaires within.

This story is cited by Mark Waid as a major influence on everything he's ever written, particularly in story structure. Part 1 features a personal, tension filled journey full of suspense that a small group of heroes go through where they are forced to confront their fears and show true heroism. AND THEN, they the issue ends with the major threat still having to be faced in part two! This one-two punch of smaller / personal followed by epic / huge odds is a good combo for any writer to take advantage of.

I would add that if part 2 had featured the entire LSH taking on Mordru then that would have been even better. But the story we got is still enjoyable.

Mordru himself is an essential, iconic part of Legion lore. Earth War and TMK cemented that, but this story was the one that established him as the unholiest of unholies for the Legion (in my mind). His role is such that if he didn't exist, he'd need to be created. And Shooter gives him this iconic, overwhelming stature with how he writes Adv #369.

We've spoke at length--well, maybe just Eryk and I, I guess--at how the first Mordru story is one of those great told LSH stories from the Adv era. It's such an odd decision to introduce him like that, and yet that oddball reference to a story we've never known about or heard of before is yet another thing that makes him stand out.

This story is fascinating for many reasons. Foremost is that this is one of the last major times Smallville plays a role in an LSH story for a long time, thus making it yet another telltale sign that the Legion's Silver Age (and Superboy's) was ending. It's also one of the best, as if Shooter is giving fans a tour de force so we can say bon voyage and the Legion will mature. It's also charming in its own way: the old Bob Cobb identity is brought back while moments earlier Ma Kent gasps at Shady's blue skin. Interesting how one surprises but the other doesn't.

Of course, part of why the issue is iconic is the four superheroes within and how much they change. Within, Shady and Mon begin to fall for one another, while Luornu realizes she'll never be with Superboy. The Luornu parts are heartbreaking. I remember early on LW when we spoke of this issue and a few posters said there was a reason the panel with Luornu tunneling beneath the Kent's was included in the final panels before zero hour wiped away the original Legion (or so we thought)--it had stuck with them for all these decades.

It also shows and foreshadows the evolving Legion. I speculated years ago that it also subtly shows another change: Shady's new romance reflexes her deepening and important role as part of the Legion; while Luornu's heartbreak reflects her shift to being less and less and integral member. It might also reflect the shift from Luornu being Phantom Girl's best friend (as referenced by Vi during the Levitz era and probable as they joined together) to Shady, which we all saw to the max during Levitz's era and thereafter. One thing we know for sure is it sets up Luornu to be with Chuck, and ensures Superboy's ties to the Legion are always strong but always able to be snipped if needed.

I also enjoy the scene where Luornu thinks on her feet and prevents a head on collision without revealing her powers. It's literally mere panels after a scene where she's clearly the fifth wheel (as Clark plans a date with Lana), and it reminds the reader she's still a full blown superhero--brave and capable.

One thing Shooter does extraordinarily well is explain how Mordru gradually rose to power over the decades. Mordru does not conquer all at once and he thrives on fear and the weakness & indecision of his enemies. In that way, he is a true monster, and one the real world is all too familiar with. This helps ground a character with immeasurable power.

In a major ironic twist, which continues to show how good young Shooter was, later in the issue the citizens of Smallville do exactly the opposite of the United Planets, and stand up to the king gangster trying to take over. Thus, the Legionnaires see what should have, and what must, be done. It's great storytelling, and I love that the common people of our era (well, the prior generation) do what neither the LSH nor the the people 3,000 years later don't do.

There's a definite Sauron feel to Mordru (of LotR fame) and that is felt when Mordru's shadow scans Smallville for the Legionnaires. The scene is intense and well done.

The cliffhanger is one of the best of the Silver Age, and kudos to Curt Swan for the fantastic opening splash and the ending splash, both of which are terrific.

Fanfie's comment on the lack of George Klein on inks is well taken. I think Abel does a fine job--a very good job in fact--but Klein was just killing it for Swan, especially in the previous two years. But the art is still great here, with plenty of moody shadowing in sequences, which DC was doing more and more at this time.

In a horrible twist, I realize I've misplaced my Adv #370, which I finally tracked down a few years ago. Bloody liberty! I wanted to read this all at once! Alas, I'll check out the electronic version soon enough. I can't wait for my favorite, Pete Ross and Lana as Insect Queen.

Great review, Cobalt Kid! I couldn't agree more.

Thanks!

I think if you remove all the of the emphasis we put on how important things are to the LSH mythos, or which actual characters are in the story, Adventure #369 may be the best single issue Jim Shooter has written for the Silver Age Legion (at least, thus far). Story-wise, it is terrific.

My daughter loves Archives #8. It's the one I always find in her bed or her reading nook, and I think the Mordru story is her favourite one (Though the one she asks about the most is 376. More when we get there).

A typically excellent review, Cobie. I don't entirely agree with it, but, as always, I respect the passion and conviction you express.

I'll chime in on Adventure 369-370 either later tonight or tomorrow evening.



I seem to recall you saying in another thread that she's a tween? If so, then I can totally understand why she loves 376, because I'd have loved it if I had first read it as a tween (and even though I first read it as an adult, I do like it very much.) That's all I'll say about it for now.

Adventure 369-370

I'll start by saying that even though I'm ambivalent about the Mordru introduction story, I do appreciate the craft that went into it (on the writing, editing, and penciling levels at least). In a nutshell, I think it's good, but not great.

Cobie has already covered most of the positives. I'll only add that I really like the way Lana is portrayed in this story, especially when she says to Tasmia/Betsy, "It'll be nice having a sister for a while." That always makes me smile.

The other day, I found a thread discussing Shooter's entire Adventure/Action run, and I found a lot of the comments on the Mordru story to be illuminating of its strengths and flaws. Said comments are on pages 6, 7, and 8:

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=57197&page=6

Now for the things I think are not so good:

- First and foremost, why doesn't Mordru just destroy them and be over with it? Yes, I know this is the Silver Age where the heroes always win and live to tell the tale, but it's kind of annoying to me that he has more than one chance to just vaporize them and he doesn't do it. I found the whole kanagroo court thing particularly eye-rolling, even if it does provide the means for the heroes' survival and triumph.

- Tasmia does something incredibly stupid by opening a safe when she has no idea what it contains. Now, yes, I love Tasmia, and while I don't expect her to perfect, I do think that accidentally setting free the most dangerous sentient in the universe qualifies as unforgivable. This has always been an aspect of Legion continuity that I have to fudge in my head.

- I also wish that, when Tasmia is first disguised as a Caucasian human, there had been at least a thought balloon saying, "I find this so humiliating, but desperate times call for desperate measures."

- Luornu - she's always been my second least-favorite female Legionnaire, and her obsession with Superboy has a lot to do with it. Nothing against Superboy, but, Jeez Louise, she's irrationally attracted to him to the point where, during the Baxter era, she stupidly goes on a suicide mission against the freaking Time Trapper to avenge Superboy. This in spite of having been happily married for years (and while I love Chuck, I think his whole, "Sure, honey, do whatever you want" attitude about the suicide mission is cringe-worthy.) Now, I know I shouldn't let future stories by a different writer color my perceptions of Luornu, but it's hard not to, especially since I read the later stories before this one. For what it's worth, I do like the couple of cool scenes she gets in the Mordru story.

- Jack Abel's inking could charitably be called erratic. Some of it is adequate, but a lot of it is out-and-out raggedy.

- Finally, in another instance of later stories coloring my perceptions of an earlier story, i think Shooter's tendency to make his villains near-omnipotent, to the point where it's hard to find a credible way to defeat them, starts here. Now, I also think the Mordru story is a billion times better than such Marvel mess-terpieces like The Korvac Saga and Secret Wars I and II, but I still believe Shooter kind of painted himself in a corner by making Mordru so powerful.

In summary, the first Mordru story -- a good read, yes, but far from the greatest tale of the Legion of Super-Heroes, in my humble opinion.

Cobie and Fanfie,

I loved reading your reviews of 369-370. I think you both hit the nail on the head as far as the story's strengths and weaknesses go.

I haven't the time to go back and re-read it to add my own thoughts (plus, being the completist I am, I'd rather start where I left off in these reviews, with # 359). But I want to say that this story has always stood out to me because it is so well structured and makes the most out of its small cast of characters.

Ironically, the reason I never think of it as one of my favorites is because it does feature such a small cast--only four Legionnaires! WTF? Yet it's because there are only four Legionnaires that there is room to develop them and explore their personalities and relationships. One of the four, at least, is my main man, Mon-El! (Though, aside from the beginnings of his relationship with Tasmia, he is developed the least in the story, as I recall.)

Luornu truly does come off as someone we care about and who demonstrates her resourcefulness in the near-collision scene.

I've always been bothered by Shady opening the safe, too! Blame it on her being an impetuous teenager, perhaps, or on her being so ga-ga over Mon-El that she wasn't paying attention to what she was doing.

The absence of more Legionnaires also gives Pete and Lana much to do. Both come off as smart and brave, unlike they did in certain earlier stories when their presence in Legion stories seemed a waste of time.

I'm comfortable with Mordru using a Devil's Jury to torture the Legionnaires with a mock trial. I just wish he had used actual foes of the Legion's--Zaryan, perhaps, or Molloch or Jungle King--plucked out of the past instead of four unknown throwaway characters.

The ending in 370 also feels like a cheat--all it took to defeat Mordru was creating an illusion that he had won? Too bad Jeckie wasn't on hand before.

However, the buildup was suspenseful. It was believable why these four heroes had to go on the run to hide from their bogey man. Shooter does an outstanding job of defining Mordru as a terrifying figure even in scenes in which he is not present.

Thank you, He Who. And I'm very happy you chimed in. We miss you in these Archives Re-Read threads, but I certainly understand that you'd rather pick up where you left off.



LOL

But seriously, I think Tasmia came across as very grounded and sensible in 365-366, so it doesn't jibe with her potrayals in the Thora and Mordru stories. Lardy and Thoth made good observations about Thora magnifying and twisting Tasmia's dark side, so I can accept that in the big picture, but as I said before, I have to fudge what she did in the Mordru story.

Now I wonder whether Tasmia's behavior in the Thora and Mordru stories might have caused a reader backlash which resulted in her being neglected by writers in subsequent years?

Regarding Tasmia "goofing up" and freeing Mordru, I can definitely agree. I used the phrase "goofing up" because it feels like 1950's hijinks that feel increasingly out of place as superhero comics grew more into their own. By this point, such a careless mistake by a capable character is jarring.

For #369, it's the one aspect that I really dislike. Beyond that, the issue is nigh perfect for me. As for #370, I haven't gotten to it yet but certainly some of the criticisms on how Mordru deals with the LSH and is ultimately beaten by them make it less on the level of 369 (though I still remember enjoying it immensely).

Btw, I've found it a lot easier in recent years to just outright make myself forget all the other stories featuring the same characters other than the one I'm currently reading. I think I've just read so many thousands of bad comics that it's become a cold defense mechanism.

HWW, I second Fanfie--love having you chime in and back in the Archive review! I'd love it if that continued!

LOL

I think that's a very healthy attitude. Certainly healthier than my irrational dislike of Luornu because of her irrational stupidity during Paul Levitz's Conspiracy arc.

Saaaaay...we have a thread in the Gy'mll's forum about stories that ended our interest in Non-Legion characters. Maybe I should start one in the Legion forum.

Thanks, Cobie.

I'm committed to doing the Avengers re-reads at the moment. I can only focus on one series to review at a time, it seems. (By the way, I've missed your comments therein.)

I'm kind of waiting for 353, but I'll jump back in for some broad comments. My memory isn't as good as the pre-353 issues (except cor the two parter that intros the new Swordsman which we reviewed). So I'll be back soon!

Cobie, sorry to be pedantic, but I think the Avengers issue you're referring to is 355.

Looking forward to your thoughts on it, BTW.

And I'll have lots to say about it, too, and even more to say about 356 (the first "current" Avengers issue I ever bought) and 357 (possibly my single favorite Avengers issue.)

Ah, you're right. Typo? Memory? Even I'm not sure.

So, 353 is your favorite story? That explains a lot.

LOL

I finally got to read both parts last night. As I read 369, particularly, I couldn't help but feel I was reading the greatest individual issue of the Legion's Silver Age Adventure run! I mean, really, I just thought it clicked on all levels. 370 was really good, too, but it let down it's great opener to some degree.

I disagree with those who feel Swan's art suffers here with Abel's inks as opposed to Klein's. I thought Swan's art had never looked better...from that creepy splash with Mordru's face dominating the background to allthe great images in that "flashback" montage (including Mordru's shockingly S&M alternate look! ) to how lovely Shady looked with the outfit and hair she wore to fit in in Smallville. There's a panel I love that stands out for me on page 15 where Clark is removing his glasses with Bob in the background that is just so dramatic and perfect! I don't know if the material was just especially inspiring to Curt or if Abel just worked some mojo on him, but it just felt like the stops were being pulled out and Curt was branching away from his usual (though still always excellent) repertoire.

I mean, there appear to be some nods to Neal Adams in the splash and some inspiration from Kirby, particularly in his depiction of Mordru! Mordru's eyes are reminiscent of what Kirby might do, and there's that flashback image from the top panel on page 7 with Mordu gesturing as Mon and Kal reel that looks like a pose you'd see from Kirby or John Buscema. Some might be disappointed that one of the Silver Age masters might appear to be aping some of his peers, but I like it a lot. These are only apparent in certain spots after all, and Curt does plenty with his own style, as well. His work with the four leads is pure Curt, for example, and is remarkable in how all look distinctive beyond their particular hairstyles. Curt always imbued all of his characters with their own humanity and was a master of expressions and acting. I'm sure he was also thrilled that the cast size was so manageable in this tale as drawing so many characters was what he didn't like about being assigned to this feature (as is the case with many Legion artists over the decades).

Of course, Shooter also deserves credit for the look of these issues because, as always, he did layouts for them. In any case I think Shooter, Swan and Abel make for a bang-up combo, at least in this 2-parter. Looking back and forth between the Mordru story and the Thora story, I can see that Abel's inks appear significantly heavier than Klein's. To me, in this case at least, that's a nice change. Not in that it's SO much better, but in kind of an apples and oranges way. I like that Abel inks differently from Klein. Both are competent but bring out different aspects of Swan's lines. I noticed that Abel's influence on the characters' facial features, for example, sharpens them in an attractive way while Klein has a lighter pass at them (at least in the Thora tale).

I know this is a lot of space spent on the artistry, but that just goes to show how much of an impression it made on me in this storyline. I expect excellence always from Swan, but here, it bore mentioning because my expectations were exceeded and I really, vehemently disagreed that the art took a step down with Klein's departure. In this Mordru story, at least, I was blown away!

And the story, especially in part one, really matched my excitement for the artwork. It was suspenseful, and the Legionnaires appeared to be in their worst spot ever--even more so than the stories I'd say were closest in that regard: the Super Stalag story and the Universo story in which he takes over the world. Here, for all the Legionnaires know, their compatriots are all defeated and likely dead, and these four are all that's left, on the run and have no idea how to defeat their all-powerful foe.

And as Cobie mentions, Shooter brilliantly uses this set-up to "check off" another Silver Age Legion trope, adventures in Smallville, for one of the last times. (I'd argue THE last time for the Silver Age as, in my mind, the SA ends for the Legion with the end of their Adventure Comics run.) And, as a Legion tale, I think this one stands way above any other adventure the Legion had in the setting. we've seen the Legion integrate into Smallville in various manners before, but never did it feel so immersive and important. They all truly feel like they become a part of the town and work together very well to protect it even as they have to protect themselves.

And I love how Lana and Pete become pivotal to the plot in part 2. Just as Smallville is being "checked off" memorably one last time, so are Pete and Lana in what also feels like their best uses in a Legion appearance. Honestly, seeing how well Pete, Lana and Smallville are used in service of the story here makes me wish that all those other stories weren't so largely formulaic in comparison! Lana, particularly, is so forthrightly heroic here--with all of her unlikable stalker-y attributes left behind--that I just ate up every bit of her panel time. I mean, even before she used her Insect Queen ring, she saved amnesiac Lu and Shady from Mordru's flunky--LOVED it! There was not even a snarky "HA!" when her suspicions about Clark are confirmed--all that mattered was the danger and how she could help.

Just so many great moments thru the first three quarters of this story! There's Lu's iconic and sad realization about Superboy, of course. What no one's mentioned is that moment where Clark finally takes notice of her after she prevents that accident. Even though Shady notices, Lu doesn't seem to pick up on it. Is it because she's already accepted the reality of things and doesn't read too much into it, or was it a missed opportunity to pursue his attention and see where it goes? We'll never know for sure, but I think Paul Levitz might have read it the second way, based on the controversial Conspiracy story Fickles mentions.

It's hard to blame a teenage girl for having a crush on a guy like Superboy. A lot of teenagers have crushes on guys who are unattainable, like boy band members and young TV stars. In Lu's case it was the most legendary hero who had ever lived, and she actually got to meet him and save worlds with him. I don't know if this excuses or explains her actions in Conspiracy, but I've always kind of liked that she never stopped loving him. I don't think it disrespects her love for Chuck because I feel her reasons for loving Superboy evolved from something romantic into something more like deep admiration. That's my take, anyway--it doesn't excuse her not accounting for what the consequences could be for her and how that would hurt Chuck, but I admire where her motivations came from.

Where the story lets me down somewhat is in its final quarter. The second half of 370 has some promise, even with the goofiness of the "kangaroo court", but it's disappointing to see Mordru defeat himself. Cornering them in the cave and about to finish off the Legionnaires once and for all, Mordru's ball of fire causes the cave to collapse. I'd certainly have rather the Legionnaires had brought about his defeat or at least deliberately tricked him into burying himself, but basically they have luck and Mordru's own stupidity to thank for their lives.

I suppose the defeat is somewhat novel and in its own way, shows that the only one powerful enough to defeat Mordru is Mordru--something that would happen again in some future encounters--but I was hoping they would pull something off. we did, however, get some nice images, particularly of the Legionnaires fighting under cover of Shady's darkness in a different way and Mordru aglow in the light of his own fireball.

And of course, Lana's and Pete's genies are put back into their bottles with Lana hypnotized into forgetting Superboy's identity and Superboy into forgetting Pete's knowledge of same. And we end catching up with the other Legionnaires and how they fared against Mordru. How they foiled him seems easy, but it reinforces that Mordru's ego is often his great downfall. It was nice to see Mysa appear there, too, even though the "foiled by THREE GIRLS!" line was quite uncalled for! Presumably, there's a cut scene afterwards where they kick Mon's ass!

Overall, I think 369 might just be the best single issue of the Silver Age. 370, had it delivered a stronger LSH victory, might have cemented the entire story as the best ever overall. Either way, it's a great and memorable artistic achievement in this fan's mind!

Great review, Lardy. As with Cobie, I don't agree with everything you say, but I certainly respect it all and appreciate that you give me some stuff to reconsider.

Re: Klein vs. Abel, I think Klein was the more consistently pristine of the two, and that while Abel certainly had his moments, he also had a lot of rough spots which I feel did not always compliment Swan's pencils.

Re: Luornu, very good point about typical adolescent crushes on the unattainable ones. At the same time, I think most people either get over such crushes in time, or at least scale them back to healthier levels.

Re: Lana, I'm in total agreement.

Re: Mon's sexist comment at the end, it was once again something of its time, and I can live with it. Not like when the whole story hinges on sexist notions, like the Thora issue.

Excellent insight, Lardy. I love how you trace Lu's evolution from starstruck teenager to mature woman whose crush grew into something deeper.

I think this explanation is a graceful way of explaining her actions during the Conspiracy.