Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The All Avengers Thread

Thoth, I'm curious, have you read any of the Roy Thomas/John Buscema issues of Avengers from the tail-end of the Silver Age? I ask because, as I said above, 49-50 were what made me a fan of Hercules, and I really think that 47-58 pretty much established the whole foundation of the Avengers book which subsequent writers built upon.

If I have, I'm not sure if I ever read them. I'd have to go to the Realm of Storage to find out. Honestly, what was the point of Narnia until I bulldozed it for comics storage...

I have at least some issues around the appearance of the Vision and an X-Men crossover. That was around then wasn't it? > quick check with da Web< indeedy it was.

I have a pretty patchy record with the Avengers, which I'll probably touch on in passing as soon as I figure out why...

Essential Avengers 3 is a must-own for anyone who loves superheroes, in my opinion. It collects all the issues I mentioned above (and more) at a reasonable price, the only sacrifices being paper quality and the absence color (Marvel Essentials are their version of DC's Showcase Presents volumes, and they actually predate the Showcases.)

Thanks for that. I'll check out if/what gaps I've got there and look into it.

Assuming I get through the current reads

I've gotten behind in my reading and reviewing, so here are the next two issues

Avengers 343-344 (January-February 1992)

“First Night”/”Echoes of the Past”

Summary
The Avengers welcome new members Crystal and Thor II (Eric Masters) to their ranks in typical fashion: with an impromptu training exercise. Crystal fares well, but Eric’s timing is off and throws Hercules and the Black Knight for a loop.

Cap commiserates with Natasha that the team isn’t what it used to be, and then they leave for a meeting with the West Coast Avengers. Meanwhile, the rest of the Avengers—Crystal, Eric, Black Knight, Herc, and Vision—receive a distress call from the Fantastic Four. En route to Four Freedoms Plaza, they learn they have been tricked when they are ambushed by an unexpected enemy—the long-dead Swordsman.

The Swordsman claims the Avengers left him for dead back when, but the heroes are having none of it. Convinced he is an imposter—even though he knows things he shouldn’t—the Avengers battle him and his new lady love, the mysterious Magdalene. Despite being outnumbered, the two assailants keep the heroes in check, leading to a dramatic swordfight between the Swordsman and the Black Knight. However, when the Swordsman collapses with an unexplained headached, Magdalene teleports him and herself away.

Arriving at the headquarters of the equally mysterious Proctor, Magdalene implores him to cure the Swordsman, which Proctor does. He then chastises Magdalene for allowing her new lover to confront the Avengers before he was ready.

While the Avengers try to figure out if their attacker could indeed be their former comrade brought back to life, a mysterious ship approaches the sun and then earth, the latter transit observed by the Watcher. Aboard Starcore One, the satellite stationed in the orbit of Mercury, scientists are alarmed to realize the sun is about to go nova.

Thoughts
There is much to admire in this new outing, as Harras and Epting start to make the team their own. However, there is a lot that feels very familiar and a little too convenient.

The good parts mainly have to do with the interactions between various characters. The new Thor (what shall we call him? Theric?) starts off on shaky ground by antagonizing Jarvis and then proving how inept he can be during a training exercise. For the most part, these scenes are played for laughs, and they work.

Jarvis is further antagonized by the arrival of Marilla, Crystal’s picky and condescending babysitter. Some of the most entertaining scenes in these issues consist of the brewing conflict between Marilla (who can never get Jarvis’s name right) and Jarv, whose long tradition of service to the Avengers is being challenged by this newcomer. This is probably the most significant character development Jarvis has ever had, and it’s great to learn how much pride he has in his domestic service to the Avengers.

The new Thor is the live wire on the team—the newcomer who doesn’t quite get all the super-hero traditions and who isn’t very good at his new profession, either. He reminds me of Hawkeye in his dialogue and behavior—an impulsive loudmouth. This is good, as the team would be rather staid without him.

Even though I’ve read many Avengers stories featuring the Black Knight, I still don’t feel I know him well as a character. Here, however, he takes pride in showing off his latest gadget, a light saber photonic sword. It was a good touch to reveal his expertise in body movement and to put that knowledge to use in the story.

In a chilling scene, Dane delivers the coup-de-grace to the Swordsman by running his photonic sword through the latter’s midriff. Even though the new sword (conveniently) only stuns his enemy, it leaves me feeling that Dane has a bloodthirsty side.

Crystal is well used in a few scenes, too. It is moving when the Vision glimpses his own “lost” children while observing Luna. This is also a wonderful way of introducing exposition. We understand what the Vision has lost, even if he doesn’t, because Harras and Epting show it. (And besides, there’s a hint and a hope that just maybe Vizh will regain his humanity.) This almost makes up for Harras’ clunky exposition in previous issues.

Crystal, in fact, is on the verge of becoming the emotional center of the book, as shown in two other well-played scenes. It’s heartbreaking that she wants to visit her estranged husband, Pietro, but he turns her down. The following scene, which finally kicks the plot into motion, plays well off of her past relationship with Johnny Storm.

So, those are the good things in the story. The bad things aren’t necessarily bad; however, they do feel as if Harras took the easy way out more than once. If the real Thor were involved, it’s easy to imagine him making Asgardian stew out of the Swordsman and Magdalene. But because the new Thor is so green, he is easily defeated (and continues to berate himself for it). (And, yes, I know it probably wasn’t Harras’ choice of which Thor to use. Even so, Eric is portrayed as a little too inept for the Avengers.)

Likewise, it’s hugely convenient that the Swordsman’s defeat comes only after he is felled by a physical impairment, and that Magdalene has the ability to teleport them both away. Surely a more original means of prolonging the mystery could be had.

It’s disheartening to see Steve Rogers mope around again—a trait he has exhibited quite often over the years. It’s also disingenuous. Steve, has your brain been on ice for the last 30 years? The Avengers have always had “members coming and going as if there were a revolving door.”

And, of course, what Marvel comic would be complete without subplots? I don’t feel anything yet about the mysterious ship, the Watcher, or the sun going nova (as if). These scenes come across as unnecessary intrusions.

The Sersi subplot was mildly more interesting. After having disappeared from the team (when?), she returns, tells Jarv to mind his own business, and then collapses into a puddle of tears after seeing her reflection in a mirror. Sersi is absent from the team’s deliberations which follow the encounter with the Swordsman, so she must still be hiding and the others don’t seem concerned. Perhaps Jarvis is too miffed at her rudeness to tell the other Avengers she has returned.

I see I’m supposed to read Captain America # 398 next, as it contains the first part of “Operation: Galactic Storm.” I don’t recall if I have that issue or not—I may have stopped reading Cap’s book before then. Just the same, I’ll pass. The Avengers book will either stand or fall on its own merits.

As for Harras and Epting, their merits are still undecided. I do like the art and the overall story telling, and the introduction of two new villains is a plus. But where they shine is mainly in the character moments, not in the main plot.

Glad you're enjoying the character moments, He Who. And thanks for noting Harras's development of Jarvis.

Re: what to call Eric, how about Thor Substitute? That's what I call him.

I'm actually glad you're going to skip all the Operation Galactic Storm tie-ins except for the Avengers issues. That'll move things along faster.

And here, as promised, is the fanfic I wrote which takes place right after 344:

http://iammilk-milk.blogspot.com/2010/08/fanfic-avengers-in-something-about-mary.html

I look forward to your comments.

Too much typing. I'll probably stick with Eric (though I do like Theric. )

You're a published author, and you don't enjoy typing?

LOL

Not unnecessary typing.

Thanks for the link. I'll respond in a day or so.

Excellent. Thank you.

HWW, I enjoyed your review quite a bit. I think you hit on a lot of positives and interesting aspects that will eventually draw you in completely in the long run.

I won't give any spoilers or even teases but all that you've noticed will pay dividends. Sersi, who clearly stands apart from her camrades here, plays a unique and fascinating role in a superhero team dynamic. Love her, hate her, whatever, she remains incredibly interesting.

The groundwork is laid for Dane, Crys, Vizh and others. I'm excited for you to see how Harras and Epting attempt to get you to know them.

I've also loved hearing your personal experience with the original Swordsman in this thread, so it makes it super interesting to learn what you think of this very different yet somewhat similar other version. Be a little patient and know that you will get to know him--and Magdeline too--eventually.

Oops HWW two parter caught me on the hop. I'll read the second part before reading any of that and be right (or even write*) back.



*Yes. Send only $5 a month and we can help tired, sad punsters live out their lives without you having to put up with them.

Avengers 344
It's a tense rooftop encounter, on the opening page, between the supposedly dead Swordsman and the current Avengers team. But the real question is will Herc escape that crater before the horse kisses him?

There's a role for New-Thor to keep new readers informed on Avengers history. It's a pretty decent fight with lots of good perspective art of the city's skyline. Herc & Thor are taken out early to allow us to see more of the swordsman's hatred and pain. We get the Dane Skywalker/ Swordsman fight I've been waiting for since the start of last issue. Magdalene has a lot of bridge building to do with Vision after calling him an "abomination".

Sersi returns to interrupt a domestic comedy scene between Jarvis and the nanny. After insulting Jarvis she runs off not to put some clothes on, but to collapse at the first sign of a mirror. It's a little hysterical of her.

We get back to the fight, only to be bounced away for an ill-placed interlude and then back again. Our expert swordsmen do a very poor job of showing much skill. At least the Black Knight can now use more than the hilt of a sword to finish off a foe now.

Finally, our antagonists escape pretty easily, leaving the Avengers to rightly feel as though they've made a mess of it. Let's hope they don't make a habit of handling things so poorly.

There are some questions raised on why there was a fight in the first place, as the Swordsman's motives seem badly conflicted. Thor was apparently held up by a janitor, Herc never reappeared after being conveniently being out matched again. A little bit of a let down after such a promising start.

I imagine all the people in the loft apartments below will just be glad they can finally call their insurance company. "Yes, a man's legs dangling through the ceiling. Wearing sandals..."

The Proctor has an evocative name, but immediately seems overpowered. Time will tell. It may also explain why his outfit comes with shoulder handles for someone to pick him up by. A love triangle may mean a tough choice ahead for Magdalene.

I have to give points for a comic where the sun about to go nova is only an interlude. It would seem that at least some of the clunky interludes are due to a crossover event.

In summary, it's an issue dominated by a promising action scene that didn't quite work all the way through. There were several interludes. While the change of tone with Jarvis/Nanny worked, some of the others seemed shoe horned in and prevented the development of other subplots. The curse of the cross over.

I liked the background art this issue more than the art on the characters. It seemed a little rushed again, although not as bad as some of the early issues.

The reason for the fight, as far as I can tell, was to confuse the hell out of the Avengers. It worked. Score one for the villains.

Looking forward to finding out what you think of the post-344 fanfic I provided the link for, Thoth.

Should I read 345 before reading, or can i jump in?

You can jump right in.

I'll do so later tonight. Which is just an excuse to get my fanfic caveat out of the way.

I've read, very, very little comics related fanfic (not much fanfic generally either)

So, there may be a bit of adjustment on my side to switching mediums. Any comments making me out to be an @ss, are perhaps down to a bit of unfamiliarity. Hang on, that makes me an ignorant @ass. That's worse than just being an @ss...no, just ignore this post, it's not working out at all well for me...

LOL

No worries, Thoth. I went out of my way to make that particular story accessible.

Thanks for the kind words, Cobie.

So far, I like the fact that the only real difference between this Swordsman and the original is the absence of the mustache.

I also like it that Dane's expertise in body movement heightens the mystery.

I'm still on the fence as to why it was necessary to bring Swordy back after nearly 28 years. Thoth's review of 343 reminded me that, in 1992, many readers would probably have had no idea who the Swordsman was and had nothing emotionally invested in him. If this story had been published circa 1980, it might have had more of an emotional impact.

As it is, this is a story written for older fans, apparently. Nothing wrong with that, though it does give the sense that the Avengers are stuck in the past instead of moving forward. (I got this same feeling when I read the first issue of Steve Engelhart's Celestial Madonna sequel in the early 2000s--a kind of in-joky feeling that fans are being given what they want without being challenged anew. I didn't read any further issues of the sequel.)

It's also interesting that this team of Avengers is almost completely different from the one which supposedly abandoned the original Swordsman. The Vision is the only member of that team present. Cap was not present during the Celestial Madonna sequence, and he is not present during this initial confrontation with the new Swordsman. So, Swordy's "revenge" is aimed at an institution, not at individual members. That makes much of his stated motivation ring hollow.

He Who, I think I see your point, but at the same time, I think that's like saying that Englehart's classic run was stuck in the past for referencing so much 60s and early 70s continuity.

Herc doesn't come off very good in these issues, does he?

It's almost unconscionable that Herc and Thor (even New Thor) could be routed by opponents with such low level powers as the Swordsman and Magdalene.

As with everyone else, Herc comes off better as Harras finds his groove.

This is a good point, Fanfie.

There are a couple of mitigating factors, however. One is that Engelhart actually did something new with those elements, such as having the Swordsman reform for good and join the Avengers, and introducing Mantis, who was unlike any character introduced before. (She was Vietnamese, a former prostitute (though not stated directly), and such a martial arts powerhouse that she could fell Thor.)

Even Engelhart's treatment of villains added fresh twists, such as Libra being revealed to be Mantis' father.

On a personal level, his run seemed new to me at the time because it was new. Even so, I encountered some of what I referred to above as in-joky stories aimed at older fans. When Taurus was revealed to be Cornelius Van Lunt, I had no idea who he was and felt somewhat cheated that I was expected to know.

However, I think Engelhart's most impressive achievement during his first run was that he developed the personal relationships of the characters and let the stories spring from those relationships. The Wanda/Vizh/Swordy/Mantis quadrangle rang true because it came from who they were as characters, and their choices in turn fueled the plot developments.

That's something I hope to see in the Harras/Epting run.