Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Writers who honestly make you want to drop a book

I get the feeling that beyond the first Starman arc, the title would been far less enjoyable without the Harris art.

I really enjoyed the Golden Age though and do recommend it to those who liked the lesser lights of that era. Looking back the Paul Smith art makes it a visual treat.

I concur. The Golden Age is my favorite work of Robinson's. It just occured to me that maybe he's best off writing Elseworlds tales...which DC doesn't do anymore, OF COURSE!

As for writers who make me avoid a book: Mark Millar. 'Nuff said?

^^That's why I think Earth-2 was actually pretty good, because it was basically Robinson writing an Elseworlds.

I haven't read any issues of Earth 2, but I'll take your word for it. In fact, I may actually borrow the trades from the library. Thanks, EDE.

Robinson's acrimonious departure from Earth 2 would seem to cement DC's reputation for trampling on intriguing alternate timelines.

It's definitely worth a read, imo. I wouldn't want to hype it too much, but I do think it deserves the admittedly faint praise of being much better than the vast majority of stuff that I've seen being published by current DC.

Well, I do enjoy Earth 2's sister book, Levitz's World's Finest (the only DC book I currently follow in floppies.) If Robinson's Earth 2 is on a similar level, I'll be satisfied. Plus I won't have to pay a cent (yay libraries.)

Lobdell at DC. He chased me off Titans, Superboy and Superman. I hear he did great at Marvel, so I have to wonder it its because of his style not meshing with what I think DC should be. It just felt empty, jerked around to much and wasn't very linear. Compounded by art. Not his fault there, but still.

James Robinson, not because of the quality of his writing, but the man himself.

the quality of writing was more than enough for me

Fred Van Lente. I know his Hercules run has several fans on Legion World, so no offense to them, but I personally hated the changes in Herc's personality and speech patterns, and I wanted to slap Amadeus Cho in the face. Hard.

I didn't actually read Chaos War, but I read the issue synopses on the internet. I was appalled by the implications of the virile Hercules killing a female god (Athena) and an androgyne (Mikaboshi).

Didn't even bother with his Alpha Flight.

The only thing of his I like is the Amazing Fantasy arc that introduces the female Scorpion, but even though he created Carmilla and her mother, I prefer the way Peter David wrote them in the Hulk House of M tie-ins.

I had a bit of fun with the Stuperpowers RPG when it came out. I must have read the Alpha Flight run. It used to be a book I'd alwasy give a look, if only to sigh. If it's the run I recall, then it ticked most of the standard Alpha Flight boxes. It was okay, got the team back together and didn't do anything terribly unique. It did manage not to slaughter the entire team, which is a plus.

Van Lente did/does Action Philosophers too, which I've read some of.

I have some non-LW internet friends who are gaga over Action Philosophers. I took one look at it and wanted to...

Well, I'm sure there's a lesson to be learned here.

I honestly cannot keep track of comics writers. Couldn't recognize a style to save my life. I'll thoroughly enjoy a run by a writer and equally detest another.

How could I forget Keith Giffen? I despise everything about him -- his philosophy, his sense of humor, you name it, I hate it. I think most of the positive things about 5YL must have come from his collaborators. And as much as I love L.E.G.I.O.N., I think it would have gone completely off the rails if he'd stayed longer than one year.

Invasion was fun when I first read it, but it doesn't really hold up.

And the lesson is don't throw up over your friends comics.

I couldn't tell you a thing about Action Philosophers. Could it be that it was a bit dull? Perhaps I didn't get further than skimming, which would have been a sign I was cutting back on comics.




I'm exactly the same. I've not much interest in the writers, and hype just turns me away. I don't keep track of what anyone's up to, but trip across things as I go.



Ambush Bug is one of my favourites. It's a collaborative effort too, and there some comedy gems in there. The police investigative issue through DC's continuity works so well on lots of levels.

I think Giffen has interesting, inventive ideas but no self-control. He seems incapable of considering (or frankly, caring) how his story ideas affect the characters and/or property long term. I think he needs either a strong co-writer or editor (or both) - someone whom he respects enough that when they tell him "No Keith, that's not going to happen in this comic," he listens. Levitz, Alan Grant, Karen Berger fall in that category. The Bierbaums, the 5YL editors, and whichever glorified intern DC has editing its books now do not.

Point taken.

The JLI editor, Andy Helfer, couldn't rein him in either. It started out with such promise and then turned into an obnoxious farce.

I just read a few of that run following the first arc. They didn't get up to much in the first 12 issues compared to the old team, but one of the redeeming qualities was a bit of dramatic tension.

That was already beginning to sputter out after issue 12 as the humour began to take centre stage.

In sad news, a few of those comics seem to have been damaged in storage. In little boarded baggies in a binder

Sorry to learn that, Thoth. Back in the late 90s, a lot of my comics got waterlogged due to a malfunctioning air conditioner, so I can relate.

As far as JLI, I actually kind of got most of my dislike for it out of my system by writing a vicious parody of it.

If anyone's interested, said parody is in the Bits forum. I tried to create a link directly to it, but that didn't work, so here's the page it's on. Just scroll down to the last post on that page:

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=811134&page=2

I agree with what has ben said about Mr. Giffen. I also dislike his current artwork. Too dark and hard to make out.

Giffen's certainly one of a kind. I love Ambush Bug so much, but hate all of his later Legion stuff. I thought he had some good stuff going on with the latest Doom Patrol, but all of his New52 stuff is pretty rotten. Even personality-wise he seems like a walking contradiction. For someone who professes to love the Legion, he shows it an incredible amount of disdain.

Is he still on Kirby-lite trip? I think I saw a solit for the Forever People so it seems likely.

- internal stereo now hums Shamen song -

The Prof put up some really good posts about Giffen's artwork through his career.

Okay, this is a bit of a tangent, but essentially we're condemning Keith because he tries different things. One reason that I almost completely shun the Big Two these days is essentially because they so fiercely protect their IP so much as to make the stories stagnant. We know the headliners and most of the supporting players are in no danger, even when they "die" and/or are replaced, so why bother to read? For me, the only reason I would read these now is if they're exceptionally well-crafted, and once they aren't anymore, I drop them.

Giffen and his 5YL creators are criticized on every front by their detractors for what they say are bad storytelling and poor treatment of characters. But the loudest voices say it was too dark and too different from how the book had been.

When the book was relaunched, Baxter/Vol. 3 had been in a downward spiral in sales and quality. Maybe it was Levitz overstaying his welcome. Maybe it was the continuity spike that Crisis had wrought. Or maybe people were just getting bored with the LSH. Whatever the case, it was time for a change. DC could either move forward with the same basic status quo with new creators, or they could do something more radical to change things up. We know which route was taken, for better or worse.

Legion fandom will forever be divided as to its merits, but I applaud Giffen and his collaborators for taking a huge chance that, imo, was respectful as much as it could be to what had gone before without being completely enslaved by it. Dark as it was, it was still the Legion at its heart but moved bravely forward instead of keeping things essentially the same. Ironically, it lasted about five years.

I don't expect everyone to admire Keith. He's certainly more "miss" than "hit" with me, in case anyone's wondering--especially when he doesn't have a strong co-writer. But I applaud his continual determination not to give us the same old-same old crap recycled with a different coating. Pan him all you want for his skills or perceived lack thereof, but when you villify a guy for daring to color outside the lines, that strikes a nerve.

I would never intend to villify someone for daring to color outside the lines. If I've ever come across that way to you, Lardy, then I apologize.

I villify Giffen because I think his execution almost always falls way short of the promise of his better ideas. 5YL and JLI could have been great. I think the best moments of DnA's Legion and Peter David's 2-parter in Justice League Task Force are cut from similar cloth, but they're executed in a way that appeals to me. Most of Giffen's work is not.