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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
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Avengers 335
I'm reminded of Conway's Earth-Mars War from JLA 228-230 in the first page of this issue. Sudden invasion of key Earth targets that we don't really see; Panic on Earth; Alien invasion; Lack of it being mentioned elsewhere?; prominence of UN and, importantly, a grim leader who feels that his team are no longer up to the task. All checked off.
The subordinate female companion who risks angering her (presumably abusive) male leader is also similar to that story, as is the temperament of the female companion. It's an unsettling relationship dynamic. I wonder if, like the JLA story, the letters page will feature queries about where all the other heroes were?
The Avengers attack directly. So, why didn't they attack earlier, rather than sit around doing video diaries? It's not as though they have a plan. Herc seems oddly sidetracked away from the main threat. It's then made apparent that it's so the villain can seek a potential mate in Sersi and so Cap can fight him.
Our villain is conveniently better at everything, just because. My least favourite kind. Poor Cap. If only there was a super strong member of the team. Like a demi-god? Herc? Herc? Nope, he must be out of earshot.
In future issues, I wonder if the the Avengers' best plan for getting close to any villain will simply be "Let Sersi get taken as harmless 'booty'"? Herc & Rage seem upset at events. Perhaps they'll pay attention to their surroundings or help get the team trained. The villain's companion and Fool begin to reveal their own plans, so at least they aren't complete fodder.
It's visiting day at Watchers. Today we have Panther, Pym, Beast and a plank of wood with cosmic powers trying to get get the Collector to regain consciousness. They've been at it for 24 hours, apparently without so much as a toilet break (you never see sandwiches in this sort of scene either); I have no idea how Panther functions properly behind the mask for so long.
The Collector Awakens! He's not best pleased, possibly thinking someone had rearranged his baseball cards. We get a really nice solution from two old hands in taking the Collector down. It's nice to have something positive to say about the issue. That's about the only thing though as the Collector takes our heroes to the wrong microscopic world. I'd like to think this is part of a plan, because it wasn't terribly convincing. Like the Watcher becoming too involved last issue, the Collector developing a sense of humour seems a bit off. A little too humanised.
With a bit of luck the microscopic world will contain Ray Palmer next issue, but I don't hold out much hope. I'd settle for the Micronauts though.
The art is even looser and scratchier than last issue. The plot has its predestined plot points and the story is padded towards getting to them. The Brethren minions provide a second pointless, distracting melee, and the main villain is easily forgettable, because of the lack of flaws.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Epting's previous credits were issues of Dreadstar, Whisper, and Nexus for First Comics. It's a mixed bag of work, but some of it (particularly Dreadstar 59) shows how good he already was when he had the proper time to do his best.
Ah, yes. I remember his work on some of those titles. Or, I guess it's more accurate to say I remember his name from them.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
"a plank of wood with cosmic powers"
Quasar was originally Marvel Boy, wasn't he?
This, along with Swordsman and Mantis, is another good example of why comics characters should have final chapters. Marvel Boy, who starred in his own title in the 1950s, was forgotten for about 20 years when he was revived as "The Crusader" in two issues of Fantastic Four. It seems that Marvel Boy snapped when he learned that his community on Neptune had perished and so he returned to earth to wreak havoc. He was destroyed when his energy wristbands overloaded.
I don't recall how he was resurrected, and it doesn't matter. He joined the Avengers as yet another energy wielder and hero with blonde hair, a mask, and a cape--the most generically powered and generic looking hero if there every was one.
Marvel Boy's story was tragic--he went from being a young hero to losing everyone he held dear and seeking revenge on those he held responsible. It was as close to profound as super-hero comics usually get, and it should have been left that way.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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He wasn't resurrected. Wendell Vaughn acquired Robert Grayson's wristbands (though how he did wasn't revealed for 10 years.)
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Thanks for the correction.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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You're welcome, He Who.
I'd like to ask you and Thoth a favor. A few years ago, I wrote and posted an Avengers short story on my blog. The story takes place between 344 and 345. If I post a link after you guys review 344, could you please read it and tell me what you think? If you do, please post the comments here and not on the blog.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Be happy to. Though, at my rate, it may be awhile before I get to 344.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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Thanks, He Who. And I don't mind waiting.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
Avengers 336
Villainous Thane Ector makes a pronouncement to fight over Earth. We don't see who he's addressing so it may be just the three of them in a small room. I imagine that with the dodgy anatomy they have been drawn with, it's tough to travel too far. As all three get speaking parts, they all must have parts to play.
Ector teleports his base onto the top of the twin towers looking very much like Galactus and the Sentry's watchtower in different times. His minions begin to eradicate the locals from the area. Cap calls in as many Avengers as he can get, and sends them into battle...without a plan again. His most impressive attribute seems to be a super-growth beard across the panels. Super-moping. He'll either save the day or become Aquaman in JL Detroit.
Our other subplot sees some of the team make contact with a people who have encountered the villain previously. Hopefully, they will learn something important. It would make the collector's clunkiness in getting them there make some sense.
The main team are beaten with ridiculous ease by Ector's minions. There are JLA parallels here too. Aquaman's JLA rarely, if ever, won a fight making them look pathetic. I'd have fancied their chances against this Avengers performance. Rage, continues to look like a waste of time in this team.
More troubling misogyny for Sersi this issue. She's strangely attracted to men who kidnap her, hold her in cuffs and try to kill her friends. And there's an attraction for Captain America revealed in the very same scene. This basically makes her character defined through her attraction to men; to make the male characters look potent.
The tension between the three main Brethren is at least interesting. Dorn is still following the jealous companion trope. The fool goes further than the traditional wisdom for the lips of the fool, into being able to kill Ector. Ector has a few standard comic complexes. But the relationship between the two, particularly as the fool gets beaten up by Dorn a lot, bears some watching.
Back to our subplot, and the Avengers find themselves trapped in the plot of Doctor Who's Carnival of Monsters. They too, will have to travel through a succession of alien habitats to reach their goal.
I'm going to be very disappointed if the Avengers don't find a way to restore all these habitats to their proper worlds.
Back on Earth, Cap and Widow confront the Brethren. Having seen their comrades get thumped without a plan, they decide to attack without a plan. Because the aliens presumably won't be expecting it for the umpteenth time.
Lockjaw and Crystal save their butts, by killing the Brethren. I wonder if this will be touched on (if only to make them androids), or whether having a body count to be an Avenger is what it takes.
Last edited by thothkins; 09/06/14 12:45 PM.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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There's more to the Sersi thing than meets the eye. More I cannot say without spoiling what's ahead.
I freely admit that the other thing, Crystal and Lockjaw teleporting the alien soldiers to the center of the Earth, has always troubled me. I try to dismiss it as a tasteless joke told on the spur of the moment, and in reality they teleported them somewhere far away but where they wouldn't get killed. Denial? Mmmmmmmmaybe...
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
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Posts: 31,847 |
I had assumed that she was playing possum to a degree, but as she waits, she has no idea if the rest of the team have been killed. Occasionally, you get a character who is seeking power of their own. That's more likely to be a Marvel character than a DC one.
Part of the fun here is finding out what happens. I've no knowledge of any of these issues, and I barely know a lot of the cast, including Sersi.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
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She's complicated. That's all I'm allowed to say.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Avengers 336 (Late August 1991) "For Here We Make Our Stand"
Summary I don’t know if Bob Harras got a credit in the first Avengers movie, but he probably should have. This issue feels eerily familiar. Thane Ector and crew set up shop on the still existing World Trade Center (in lieu of Stark Tower, in the film), and proceed to conquer earth by invading New York City. Cap, sidelined with what appears to be a damaged rib cage, calls in a couple of Avengers reserves—Iron Man and The Black Knight—to assist in fighting the Brethren. The team still fares badly.
On the moon, the miniature Avengers and Collector make their way through the paramecium and encounter another race with reason to hate Thane Ector. After the usual misunderstanding and fight, the Avengers persuade the primitive tribe that they have a lot in common.
Meanwhile, Sersi finds herself oddly drawn to her captor, Thane Ector, and we get an unexpected glimpse into Ector’s relationship with his lackey, the Fool.
The issue ends with the return of Crystal, who applies for Avengers membership.
Thoughts Harras and Epting finally start to put their own stamp on the Avengers, and this issue feels more professional as a result. Of course, it doesn’t hurt that Tom Palmer inks the entire issue, resulting in a very attractive and often dazzling look throughout.
The story also starts to come into its own as we are given clues that the Brethren’s history isn’t all we’ve been told it was. In particular, the Fool is a much more powerful and interesting figure than we’ve been led to believe, and Ector—surprisingly—does not fight back when the Fool assaults him. In fact, Ector’s weary response that perhaps he wants to die adds depth to his character.
Unfortunately, if the villains start to emerge as complex, the titular heroes do not. While the Avengers’ easy defeat at the hands of the Brethren is meant to make the latter look formidable, it just makes the former appear careless and ineffective. It would have been nice to see stalwarts such as Iron Man, the Vision, and Hercules put up more of a fight than they do here.
Also, isn’t it nice that the bad guys keep throwing Cap’s shield back to him? Ector did so last issue, and one of his minions does so here. You’d think they’d have realized that without the shield, Cap is . . . well, still formidable, but not as formidable.
Another observation: It’s interesting that the issues so far haven’t ended with big “wow!” moments to propel us into the next issue. Most of the cliffhangers have been smaller and even anti-climactic. Crystal’s request to join the Avengers, for example, may come as a mild surprise to long-time fans who know her history, but—since nearly everybody except Aunt May has joined the Avengers by now—it’s no big deal.
Yet another observation: Can Harras possibly come up with less imaginative story titles than this one and "Bloody Encounter" of last issue?
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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The title of the next issue is far from generic. In fact, the next issue as a whole is, to me, where everything finally starts to come together. But if I said anymore, I'd be jumping the gun. As for Crystal and, for that matter, Sersi, I first discovered them through this era of Avengers. When I got back issues of their earlier appearances, I was disappointed that they weren't portrayed the way Harras did, and I didn't like them at all. Pre-Harras, Crystal was a petulant princess and Sersi was a dumb party girl.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Avengers 337 (Early September 1991) "Mud and Glory" SummaryThane Ector and the Fool explore the sewer underneath the World Trade Center, where the Fool enjoys eating muck and—after much taunting—so does Ector. Crystal puts in her bid for membership and is accepted as a provisional Avenger. Meanwhile, Nick Fury calls to reveal an important clue about the Brethren’s nature. Aboard the Brethren’s citadel, Sersi is attacked by Sybyl Dorn, but the fight doesn't go as Sersi expects. Ector saves Sersi from a rather disgusting demise and then takes her into his confidence about the Brethren’s origins. The Avengers on the moon continue to explore the Collector’s menagerie until—with some timely direction from the Watcher—they find the receptacle that housed the Brethren. Unfortunately, the encounter proves too much for their new primitive ally, Nakka, who rots into a skeleton before their eyes. ThoughtsThis is one of those middle chapter issues in which not much happens to further the plot, but a few character moments are offered and important revelations are made. It’s inventive (and disturbing) that the Brethren are made of the germs and waste of the universe (which, I suppose, literally makes them shitty villains and probably explains why Fanfie likes this era so much. ). It is also interesting that Ector is duty bound to preserve the myth that his people are great warriors. One actually starts to feel sorry for him. Meanwhile, the Avengers are featured in a couple of character moments which feel uninspired and tell us nothing new. The Vision, in his new ghostly white appearance and mechanical demeanor, spooks Lockjaw and tells Crystal he can be her fellow Avenger but not her friend. Rage begins to have doubts about his place on the team . . . and that’s about it. Sersi does, however, come off well in her fight with Sybyl Dorn and her role as listener for Ector. The Epting/Palmer team really gels here, as the action is clear and moves the story forward throughout. Their most impressive achievement, though, is the realistic body language and facial expressions. Some standout images: Sersi on Page 24, Panel 1, and again on Page 25, Panel 5; Hank Pym on Page 9, Panel 2; and the Collector on Page 8, Panel 2. Of course, there are still a few awkward images—what’s up with Hank’s ear on Page 29, Panel 1? But the final, haunting panel of Nakka’s corpse stayed with me for a long time afterwards. Observation: At last we get a reasonably interesting story title.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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The title of the next issue is far from generic. [/B] I was editing my post as you were posting yours! I never had much of an opinion on either Crystal or Sersi. Crystal had left the Fantastic Four long before I started reading that title, so I first encountered her as Quicksilver's bride in Avengers 127/FF 150. I can't remember when I first encountered Sersi--it might even have been in the Avengers. In any case, they were two very minor supporting characters who probably should have stayed as such.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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Re: shitty villains, U know me 2 well, He Who. But all kidding aside, it was a novel thing to do in a mainstream superhero book in 1991. And I think Crystal's confessional scene was beautifully executed, and it succinctly told us all we needed to know about her and why we should care about her.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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The title of the next issue is far from generic. [/B] I was editing my post as you were posting yours! I never had much of an opinion on either Crystal or Sersi. Crystal had left the Fantastic Four long before I started reading that title, so I first encountered her as Quicksilver's bride in Avengers 127/FF 150. I can't remember when I first encountered Sersi--it might even have been in the Avengers. In any case, they were two very minor supporting characters who probably should have stayed as such. I don't think they should have stayed as such, not with the way they evolved under Harras' guidance.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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Double post. Blasted computer!
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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I look forward to seeing how Sersi and Crystal develop under Harras. I've read up to 342, and I'm still surprised at how little I remember of this era.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Posts: 24,141 |
By the way, thoth alluded to Sersi's infatuation with Captain America, but that was also highlighted back in 328, written by Hama. In that issue, Sersi has an encounter with a female character called Diamond, who is a rival for Cap's affections.
Cap, in true super-hero form, doesn't seem much interested in either of them.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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OP
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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Sersi had a crush on Captain America going back several years to her guest appearances during Mark Gruenwald's run on Cap's solo book. Harras quietly disposed of that whole thing once he was firmly entrenched as the regular writer. In my opinion, he was wise to do so.
In fact, Harras didn't seem to like Cap at all. He wrote him out of the book -- temporarily, as it turned out. To this day, I suspect he was pressured by TPTB to have at least one of the Big Three in his lineup.
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Re: The All Avengers Thread
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
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Avengers #337
Hands up who is the most awkwardly positioned woman on the cover. Dorn tries, but can't get her arms past the shoulder pads.
The opening four pages are the villain and his fool in a sewer beneath their twin tower base. We learn much more about the connections between the two. We see that Ector wishes to change but is bonded to his race's history and supposed destiny. It's good characterisation for our villain, and there were hints in the last issue. He succumbs to his race's desire for decay like a good vampire, but will he be able to resist again? The only mystery is why he should admire the Avengers, who have been kicked around so easily in this story.
Our microscopic Avengers find destroyed micro world after destroyed Microworld inside the collector's habitats. Why is the Collector so poor at Collecting? Perhaps he has a brother called the Maintainer who actually checks in on the habitats he owns. If Hank Pym is correct about exponential destruction of micro worlds, then that's an Anti-Monitor sized assortment of alarms that the Collector was ignoring.
Who else but Cap to take Crystal's offer of full membership and tie it up in Avenger's red tape. Black Widow gets her own back by saying that Crystal will be a good tactical addition. We don;t see Cap's reaction panel at someone knowing what "tactical" means. Rage shows more self doubt, which is simply perceptive as he's been even more useless than most of the others.
The information about the Brethren comes thick and fast, much like their true forms leading to Dorn attacking Sersi. Ector makes what could well be his last move against the will of his people.A race with the biological imperative of a disease goes well with the Celestials tinkering to change how they looked and perceived themselves. That their heritage and identity are all crafted lies gives them even more depth. I'm reminded a little of the Legion's Blight. The link to established continuity through Sersi, shows that a bit of thought went into creating these guys.
As HWW said, it's a real shame that the Avengers are nowhere near this interesting.
It's a real shame that the Watcher has now become the Smiler and the Gesturer in short order. You'd have thought that his job description couldn't have been simpler.
A pretty good last page gives a clear example of the threat the Brethren pose, a bit of black humour and an eerie landscape for their home. Looking down at the vast rectangular, connected buildings I'm reminded of incubators or the eggs from Alien and Prometheus. So, that's pretty chilling stuff.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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