Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Flash (Barry Allen)

An interview with Bates from a Flash fan site:

http://speedforce.org/2011/05/interview-cary-bates2/

Just read it, and Cary had about a year's notice before Barry's death. So I was right that Cary didn't know from the time Zoom was killed. He also speculates as to what direction the series may have gone post-Trial if not for Barry's death. "Flash on the Run," apparently...

A second thing that was a bit hard to swallow was Barry remarrying fairly soon after Iris' death and all of the histrionics surrounding his bride-to-be Fiona. In real time Iris had been gone about four years until the time of Barry's scheduled second nuptials. In comic book time that ain't a lot! Even though Iris' death is referenced in-story as "years" ago, it's soon, especially figuring in the grieving period and the dating.

Plus, I think it's fair to say that Fiona is far from a sterling example of a strong female character based on what we see of her during this extended storyline. She basically can't handle being apparently stood up at her wedding and then her fiance's longterm disappearance (more on that, soon). She has a complete mental breakdown, and her delicate condition becomes a big part of the Flash's motivation in how he proceeds in his case and his reshaping his future.

I have to thing that it's these same histrionics that Kappa is thinking of in his "soap opera" analogy a few posts above. I guess you can infer that Fiona has a history of mental illness that wasn't disclosed, but she's a pretty forgettable character at best and a terrible swipe at feminism at worst.

I don't know how well Iris was written before her "death", but I have fond memories of how Waid wrote her. Fiona isn't a shade on Iris!

Fiona was pretty weak as a character, but I think that the writers didn't want to make an Iris clone out of fear of backlash from fans who may have still been bitter that Iris had been killed off.

I don't see the point in killing off Iris (and I believe it was supposed to be permanent) if you're just going to put Barry on the cusp of marriage again within 4 years. Yes, I know it didn't happen, and that was Cary's way of breaking them up and spinning out some story. But I have issues with it.

By the way, I have a feeling, if plans hadn't changed, that Cecille Horton, Barry's lawyer, was being set up as Barry's next love interest. That might have been interesting.

Oh yeah, there's definitely a weird tension between Barry and Cecille during the Trial, though I never really cared for her as a character so I'm glad that nothing long-term came from that.

I dunno. I think it might have been interesting. The dynamic between her strong will and the old-fashioned, meat-and-potatoes Barry might have been something to see in contrast to Iris and Fiona. But ultimately, I'm happy that Barry was eventually reunited with Iris and soon afterward made the sacrifice in Crisis because it gave Wally (and later Iris) a chance to shine.

Speaking of lawyers, there was a bizarre subplot running for a while in which his lawyers were the targets of bombings. His original lawyer was badly injured and had to step aside in favor of his partner Cecille. She was later targeted herself and barely survived by hiding in her sensory-deprivation tank!

The culprit? A third lawyer who desperately wanted Barry's case for himself!

It's been a while since I read this arc, but I love the scene when she goes to Barry's parent's house to spy on him.

I was a big Flash fan growing up, and I read a lot of the stuff in the 70s and 80s.

The thing that really caught my attention during all of this was the scene where the Rogues destroy Zoom's body and costume. However...

Didn't Eobard get his powers from his costume? Couldn't anybody put it on and have super-speed?

As if Mirror Master weren't bad enough, how about a really FAST Mirror Master?

I guess Bates didn't think of it, or "The Case of Every Rogue Having Fun in Zoom's Costume" would have been a cool story.

I thought it was kind of cool. I also liked that she was smart enough to figure out Barry's secret with the clues she had to go with. Unfortunately...that really backfired on her!

The idea that a lawyer would plan on a stunt like she did without consulting her client except to say, "trust me on this one", is just ridiculous. When she pulled off his mask to show the court Flash was Barry Allen to prove why he would pull all stops to save a second love from the same fate--then, BOOM!--it's not Barry's face because of the plastic surgery? BIG-time WTF moment!

It was also a reveal for the readership. We hadn't been shown his face since it was injured by Big Sir (BTW, the storyline could have done with 100% less Big Sir, but I digress....), but there was enough of a hint that it had happened for readers to guess at this twist. they had to really know something was up when Barry's face was concealed during the aforementioned incident at Barry's parents' house when cecille was spying on them.

The stunt, by the way, was not the only element of the trial proceedings that was hard to believe from what we know about the legal system. I'm pretty sure that if the manslaughter charge had really been upgraded to murder-2 the day before the trial that it would not have commenced as scheduled. We're probably talking a months-long delay minimum. Plus, the prosecution should have presented their case first, rested, then the defenses case should have begun, unless I'm totally misunderstanding the process.

And that isn't even mentioning the outside/superhero-y/sci-fi elements that came into play! But we'll get to those soon enough....

It was kind of cool how the Rogues reacted to Zoom's death. They were basically pissed off with Zoom that he 'allowed' the Flash to kill one of their number off! I mean, it's clear they never liked him anyway, but falling to their arch-foe really put him in their dregs. And yes, they basically held an irreverant funeral for Thawne and destroyed the body! (The narrative went out of the way to state that the coroners had completed their autopsy and their use for the body even though it was taken from the morgue, but there was a part of me wondering why the defense wouldn't use that to have the case thrown out.)



Really? Thawne's powers were completely derived from his costume?!? I honestly didn't know that. I wonder if that was, like, an original explanation but was maybe modified or ret-conned at some point. I've always thought his powers were always natural.

Lance is right about the suit giving Thawne his powers.

From The Flash v1 #139:

And if you think Digger's boomerangs were fast before, wait'll it's his turn to play Captain Flasharang...

So, it sounds like the Trial of the Flash is pretty batshit!

I'm hoping to do a casual Barry Allen reread at some time in the near future, though I would like take it very slow and it would take a few years. My dad and I completed our Flash collection a few years ago, though I don't have all the Showcase issues yet.

The Flash is the only non-Trinity superhero title besides JLA to make it from the Silver Age to the 1980's without being cancelled at least once, so it has a certain historical significance. Plus, the Flash was always usually one of the better DC series in the Silver Age and Bronze Age. I honestly wasn't sure what it was like the 80's, and all the comments and criticisms here have peaked my interest even more.

I'm really enjoying the Flash relaunch, which has a very Mark Waid-ish story in the "modern take on a Silver Age concept" feel. Barry is well written and the team does a great job introducing and balancing a large cast so far, including several long standing characters and a few new ones.

The art by Carmine Di Giandomenico is a little hard to get used to at first because it's very scratchy, but once you get used to it you can see the raw energy he's creating. It's a very kinetic feel and it works.

It's the friendship between Flash and August thus far that's really making the series as it gives the creators a good way to show the sheer joy and optimism in superheroics that the Flash contains. That has been fun to read, as Barry guides August, and it looks to be extending to other new characters with #3.

BUMP

Myself and Blacula were talking about the classic Silver Age Flash run just a little while ago. The 2nd Omnibus is on its way, which covers the middle of that run, which I consider the very best that the Barry Allen Flash ever got.

I also said that the Silver Age Flash is probably 2nd only to the Adventure era Legion as my favorite stories from the DC Silver Age (and it just occurred to me Doom Patrol would probably rank 3rd, thought it might outrank the Flash if it had focused more on the soap operatics and less on gimmicky monster-of-the-month guest-villains.)

And has anyone here at Legion World ever read the origin-of-Iris issue? (Somewhere in the early 200s, I want to say 204, but I'm not certain.) It sounds pretty trippy in concept, Iris being from the distant future and all.

I might have read it a while back during my binge of the Silver and Bronze Age Flash stuff a few years back, but it's been a while. If anyone knows the issue number, I have a PDF of it if you're interested.

^ It's #203.

And yes, I always find it weird that Iris is from the 30th century. Part of me doesn't like it for some reason, but it did allow for some excellent ideas like the Tornado Twins (as under-utilised as they were) and XS and Impulse.

Kappa, thank you for the generous offer, but I've always felt a little funny about exchanging Intellectual Properties via the web. If you could, at the earliest convenience, post a summary in this thread, that would be perfect with me.

Blacula, I agree it is rather odd, but I far prefer Iris being out-of-time to Carol Ferris being Star Sapphire.

Wow! I didn't think Iris was revealed as being from the future until 350, the final issue. This certainly makes the circumstances of her resurrection seem a little less random!

I wonder if it was referenced a lot between 203 and her death?

Didn't the Tornado Twins predate the Iris reveal? My admittedly imperfect memory recalls them being introduced as distant descendants of the Flash, later retconned into being his children

Yes, they were introduced as his descendants, so Iris didn't have to be from the future for them to exist.

And the Twins pre-date Flash 203 by over 2 years, for what it's worth. Adventure 373 is cover-dated October 1968. Flash 203 is February 1971.

I wonder when it was first established that they were his children.

I seem to remember it there being speculation about it not long after Flash #203 was published, but I'm not sure when it became canon.

I'm not an expert on the matter, but the events of Flash 350 seemed to make it more likely as he and Iris lived happily in the future for a brief time before his death. I don't know if it was ever verified or implied before Mark Waid helped create both XS and Impulse and nailed it down. I'm not sure if the account of the Twins' death during 5YL portrayed them as Barry's children or not.

Hmm... my guess would be WWitLSH making it canon.