Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Spaceopoly Justice League Idol!! (WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!)

Losing Vixen is a bit of a blow, but she did very well to get this far. A unique heroine who was one of those characters who settles in immediately into being in the League.

J'Onn was missing for so long in the first volume of the JLA that I didn't miss him. His powers overshadowed the Detroit members. I liked him best at the start of the JL run and again in the Morrison run I guess.

1. Hawkwoman
2. Zatanna
3. Flash

1. Elongated Man
2. Hawkwoman
3. Zatana

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)

I cannot forgive Zatanna for the mind--wiping in "Identity Crisis". That's something I expect from anti-heroes like the Pharaoh in Yugioh, not a super-hero.

Fixed that one for you.

1. Black Canary
2. Zatanna
3. Flash

1. Barry
2. Zee
3. Shay

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)

1. Black Canary
2. Elongated Man
3. Zatanna

I don't really care for Barry but it was quite difficult choosing between the other 4! Even now I am thinking I could easily replace one of the above with Hawkgirl and/or swap them around.

Also, getting down to these last heroes reminds me of Dinah and Ralph working together in the Hector Hammond/Royal Flush Gang story....they made a good team, shame we didn't see more of those two teaming up!

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Elongated Man

Not difficult for me. Again, Ralph is in there as my "least likely to be helped" vote. I don't like Zatanna, and Silver Age Hawkgirl is only so-so for me (I prefer the animated version, or the post-JLA John Ostrander version)

11/15 voters in already, and the results are very interesting indeed! It's still anyone's game at this point though.

Like Xben, I prefer the animated Shayera to the comics Shayera. Although with me, I just had more experience with the toon version.



I agree, Vixen did fit in very well with the new "big guns" League under Meltzer. I don't think anyone really questioned her inclusion.

As for J'Onn, while I did like his "mentor" side, I agree that under Morrison he was able to act like an equal among equals again - yet at the same time, his wisdom and calmness also helped him be a voice of reason even amongst all the top-tier heroes on the team.



Agree with Emily that it was not a heroic choice, but agree with Dave that it should be taken against the writers/editors, and not against Zee.



That's one of the Satellite-era stories that really stuck in my mind! I'll have to go read it again.

1. Ralph
2. Shayera
3. Zatanna

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry (I started the Silver Age) Allen)

2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Elongated Man


3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)

I was thinking back to the Crisis. When members of the League showed up, Vixen looked the most capable. Likewise in her Animal Man appearances. The Meltzer run isn't much of a favourite, although my memories of it are now vague. Which says a lot in itself.



Then just to play devil's advocate. The League played around with the minds of the Injustice League, when their secret identities were compromised. There's also a very, very long comics history for Amnesium, mind wiping, being hit on the head a lot in order to forget secrets. So, it's not as though it was something that came out of nowhere. The execution of the whole series was poor for me though. A huge gulf between the idea and what ended up on the page. Mind you, all the mind wiping things had been tucked away for quite a while. I didn't see anyone coming out with a series on what the super-pets would really have been like? Teen side kicks was done in Veitch's unsettling Bratpack.

On the remaining options:-

Dinah - A welcome strong presence on the team when she moved from Earth-2. She's been around since the golden age of comics and there's a certain legacy there from JSA to JLA to JL. She stayed when Ollie quit and is always stronger when shown as not just part of a partnership with him. Like Shayera with Katar, she was a calming influence on Ollie and both relationships were a highlight of that era.

Barry - So many tragedies and trials during the '80s, but Barry always remained an optimistic down to earth hero. Great costume and visuals. Of the big guns, we got to see more hints of his personal life than the others - his trial and blossoming romance with Zee. Barry held onto his ideals through all of this and died saving the multiverse.

Shayera - Although a derivative of Hawkman, Shayera has long since proven that she is the calmer, smarter and wittier of the pair. The Hawks relationship went through trials in the JLA, even having separate vacations, but their love remained strong. Shayera's official membership was long over due when it was acknowledged. Like Hawkman that mix of ancient and alien is a big plus to her character.

Zatanna - For me she was underused, even when the JLADetroit could have focused on her a lot more. Even in her 7 soldiers mini, where she had a powerful apprentice hogging panel time. Her rush to prove herself in the league led to a redefining of her powers. Her initial crossover appearances were novel and I'd like to see more of her, rather than someone relfected through others such as Catwoman, Batman, Constantine, Zachary etc etc.

Ralph - impossible Infantino stretches as he tangles with the Flash. Ralph was another underused character. Great visually, he's more than wise cracks and insecurity. There were so few detective stories suitable for the league that he was rather left out. It's no coincidence that Plastic Man seemed a more natural fit for the League in a number of ways. Which is a shame, as Ralph had and has bags to offer. Successful showman, public identity, great marriage, detective without gadgets. I'm ignoring everything from Identity crisis onwards really. I picture him driving across the states with Sue, solving mysteries along the way as they did back in Detective.

Votes:-

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)-10
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen) - 5
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance) - 1

It was out of character and even if she was like that, there was an argument for punishing Dr Light because he was too dangerous not to deal with somehow but ... the Batman's mindwipe was trigger happy. Especially since after that he would've left the League anyway to form the Outsiders and continually be at odds with Supes throughout DC history.

I shall say no more though! Because it dosn't merit discussion. they've been moving Zatanna more towards the dark side for a long time with her story lines and leather bustier! It dosn't quite fit with my impression of her character from years past. She was sweet and a bit shy always. oh well.

Eh, I have no problem with them erasing Light's (or other villains') memories. Tampering with their intelligence and personalities is a bit more of a gray area for me, but I don't hold it against the characters. Mindwiping Batman... that's a whole other thing. But it doesn't reduce my liking for Zatanna in the least.

My issue with Zatanna and the mind wipe is completely with the writers. Manhunter's a telepath, and has occasionally had some pragmatic and hard-nosed interpretations of justice, and I don't think he would have been nearly as out of character (or suffered in popularity) if he'd been involved in some sort of mind-wiping.

Zatanna, however inconsistently that's been portrayed over the decades, is supposedly more focused on manipulating elemental forces with her spells, and isn't just 'the Beyonder, who has to talk backwards before doing *anything at all.*'

Zatanna being all mind-wipe-y bothers me not only on a characterization level, and possible damage to the character level, but on a 'can she even do that?' level.

I know, I know, 'magic' in comic books seems to be code for 'can do anything, until that would get in the way of the plot, and then it can't do that anymore, for... reasons.'

I expect deus ex machina 'magic' from the Specter, or even Dr. Fate or the Phantom Stranger, who are some combination of angels, gods or servants of God. But Zatanna? I think that just muddies things up, as it did when Wanda arbitrarily changed from 'hex bolts that give people bad luck' to 'I can fundementally transform hundreds of thousands of people on a genetic level and change the entire planet with three words.'

Wanda Maximoff and Jean Grey would like to warn Zee that writers ramping up your power levels and giving you new powers is *rarely* doing the lady superhero a favor, in the long run.

I imagine this is going to be a three way run off between the three ladies of the satellite era. All highlighted during that era because they were second stringers and available, they seemed like real friends and no one could predict that Black Canary would go on to lead both the JSA and the JLA and have her own book or periods where she stared in books like Birds of Prey. Zatanna as well has had her own book and been the star of the magic universe and the dc comics and stories based on magic. While Hawkwoman didn't last as long as these two unmolested but Hawkgirl has also gone on to get lots of page time and covers. I bet Hawkwoman/girl would be even more popular if they kept Shayera and built on her all these years like Zatanna and Black Canary. It would be cool to see these three formidable characters all together in 2014 as long time friends.

I agree, Manhunter might even recommend just killing the guy since he's a Martian military warrior. But Manhunter is usually portrayed as gentle.

Yeah, these three JLA ladies would make a great team. I'd love to see some stories set in the pre-Flashpoint continuity that focus on the League ladies only.

Now, I'm pretty sure two of these ladies will make it through this round, but we can't count Ralph and Barry out yet. We still have one voter who haven't signed in yet... and if his voting history is any indication we just might see one guy in the finals!

I'm not sure if anyone here bought it, but the recent hardcover comic by Paul Dini, Black Canary and Zatanna: Bloodspell stars the titular two characters and is set in the pre-DCFU universe. It also has art by the wonderful Joe Quinones and has received good reviews.

Even though I haven't bought a single comic in about 12 months, I'll definitely be picking this one up when it's released in a softcover.

Here's a link to a review, although it's a CBR (one of the most ethically compromised comics "journalism" sites out there) review so take it with a grain of salt:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_review&id=7357

And for those who miss the Silver Age Shayera, I think the last appearance of both her and Silver Age Katar was in a book called Legend of the Hawkman from way back in 2000.

I've never read that one either but it's meant to be very good.

Here's a link to the covers:

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Legend_of_The_Hawkman_Vol_1

Thanks Blacs! I was actually meaning to post the Canary Zee image.

I'll look into reading them both!

Thanks for the info, Blacula. I'll definitely be looking out for both of those, especially the Dinah/Zee book.

Dinah and Zee were also teamed up in the JLA 80-page Giant (2009), where they go back in time and meet the Crimson Avenger. They made a great team there, and I love how Black Canary always manages to hold her own even though Zatanna is way more powerful. Their story was one of the best ones from that issue.

I actually bought that. It's too bad they didn't go back in time and meet ... Shayera!