Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Spaceopoly Justice League Idol!! (WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!)

Whew! Pretty close final numbers.

I'm a little sorry to see Ollie go, but I didn't want to risk some of the others to save him.

My heart sunk a bit when I saw Fire and Ice join the JLI. I was expecting someone with more powerful I guess, although they were probably the best Global Guardians available.

Red Tornado was a bit whiny for my liking, really.

Random thoughts before I start the next round...

One voter lost 5 people last round, 3 more lost 3 each. Two lost 2 each; 5 lost one each, and one lost none (probably, if I'm guessing right, because of the strategy of only voting for the absolute faves and then populating the rest of the list with votes for heroes who were already definitely safe!).

Two voters lost their top-ranked character (including me!), and four more lost their Rank 2 character.

Looking at the remaining characters on the list, I have to say there are still just about enough of my favorites left to compile a list. Most of my "underdog" faves are gone though.

I think it's also worthwhile to note that 3 of our 4 wild cards are still in the game, which means they survived two rounds since their return. In Titans Idol, 3 of the 4 wild cards had been eliminated two rounds after they had returned.

In Multiverse Legion Idol, we had a vastly different format where 10 of the Top 24 were Wild Cards. 7 of those 10 made it to the Top 12 (6 survived the next round, while 1 returned due to another Wild Card round). Also, one Wild Card finished 4th while the other finished 2nd, but that might have been the format as much as anything else.



I think Olympian might have been more powerful, but Fire and Ice had more unique powers. Rising Sun was more powerful but his powers were duplicated by Doctor Light.

While I don't think Ice was particularly powerful, I do think her powers were very useful for trapping or incapacitating people. And after Fire got powered up she was easily one of the more powerful Leaguers - in her flame form physical attacks would pass through her harmlessly (sadly, later writers forgot about that).

I found Reddy pleasant but not particularly memorable.

I'm a bit sad to see Superman go, but not at the expense of those on the list I still like a lot. Katar and Ollie I'll miss a little bit less, though my liking of them may have been colored by later portrayals as well.

Re: Red Tornado, I always find myself kind of wishing that he'd stayed as a member of the JSA.

ROUND NINE BEGINS!!

So I've been mentioning that in previous games we had two Wild Card rounds with vastly different rules. In past games we had the Wild Card just after we formed our Top 12...

... but that isn't so this game!

Whaaaat, you say! Aren't we having any more second chances, IB? You heartless gamesmaster you?

Maybe, maybe But if we do, it won't be now.

Let's trim our Top 12 down to a Top 8 - bottom 4 go home.

Vote for your Top 6 among the characters left!

Points will be given as follows:

1 - 80
2 - 40
3 - 20
4 - 10
5 - 5
6 - 1

This round ends on Tuesday night my time, Tuesday AM USA time.

House Rules

1) Each round will last about 48 hours. I will try to end each round at the same time, but this won't always be possible because of work.

2) I'll vote at the start of every round to minimize bias on my part.

3) I don't actively encourage editing of votes; it's a smart tactic but may be unfair for those who don't get to log on as often. However, I won't disallow them either. I'll only tally votes at the end of each round (to make it easier on myself!). I'll post on this thread the minute I start tallying to alert everyone; votes that come in after that will be ignored.

4) In case of errors in the results, I'll post a correction immediately. If anyone's vote was affected by the error, that poster will be notified by PM immediately. If the poster cannot correct his/her votes before the end of the round, he/she will get a makeup point next round - a +15 bonus. This only applies to instances where I made the error, and not where the poster made an error.

5) Points will be given based on your ranking. The higher you rank a character on your list, the more points that character will get (e.g. Rank 1 gets 10 points, Rank 2 gets 9 points...) Point distributions will change per round.

6) Exception to the above will be the first 1-2 rounds of the game, which trim the list down considerably. Each vote will count as one point, and characters below a certain point threshold get eliminated.

7) Because several characters have the same code name, and because the list includes multiple realities, PLEASE SPECIFY which character you are voting for. I won't make assumptions for votes which don't identify the character clearly. Example, if you vote for:

1) Superman
2) Maya
3) Elongated Man
4) Green Lantern (Pre-Flashpoint)

I'll only count the votes for Maya and Elongated Man. I have no way of knowing if you're voting for JLU Superman vs. Pre Flashpoint Superman, or whether you're voting for Hal, Kyle, Guy or John.

Our Top 12:
(Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Booster Gold
(Pre-Flashpoint) Elongated Man
(Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter
(Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen
(Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana)
(Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana)

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)

This round was easy for me.

Interesting, EDE. Do you think Reddy fit better with the JSA, or would have gotten more development there?

You know, despite my starting Top 5 (Kimiyo, Sue, Ice, Fire, toon Shayera) all having been eliminated, and in fact most of my early Top 20 gone, this round was the hardest for me in trimming down my list.

Also, with my Top 5 now gone, I had a bit of a think before deciding who to champion as my new #1 ranker. I like Ted's intelligence and craftiness; he's one of the few non-powered heroes I really like. J'Onn and Diana are both voices of reason and have been among the League leaders I'd really follow; both also got a lot of exposure post-Satellite and pre-Morrison, which is the era I'm most familiar with. And then there's Zatanna, who wasn't a League member during that era but has always fascinated me for some reason. Her youth and friendliness and her stage show made her so different from other "magical" type heroes like Dr. Fate, the Spectre or the Phantom Stranger, or even the White Witch, which I found very refreshing. These four will be my new Top 4.

Then for the rest of the list... Ray and Barry are OK, but not particular faves. Shayera and Dinah I like, but are definitely safe. So who to pick from among Booster, Ralph, Vixen and Ronnie? Booster improved a lot when he got his act together, but he didn't really resonate with me that much. I liked Ralph, but mostly because of how he interacted with Sue; I don't like him as much without her. Vixen is a good and competent Leaguer and I like how she tried to hold the Meltzer-era League together after Dinah left. And Ronnie is extremely powerful and lots of fun to read about. It's hard trying to think of which ones I'll miss most from the list, if they end up eliminated.


I guess it's time to just vote and see what happens!

1 - (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter
2 - (Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna
3 - (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana)
4 - (Pre-Flashpoint) Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
5 - (Pre-Flashpoint) Elongated Man
6 - (Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen

1 – 80 (Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen
2 – 40 (Pre-Flashpoint) Booster Gold
3 – 20 (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
4 – 10 (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)
5 – 5 (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter
6 – 1 (Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)

I think it's that he would've seemed more unique and cooler as a character among the second generation JSAers, whereas he kind of got lost among the Satellite era JLAers.

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana)
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)

I don't understand how Blue Beetle and Atom got this far while Batman did not.

It's the ranking systtem, Emily. A few first- or second-place votes will get a character much farther than a smattering of low-ranking votes. Idol games have always been full of surprises, as I've mentioned before.



True, as his Young Justice appearances showed he could have been used as a "mentor" figure to some of the younger JSAers!

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)

I assume you're referring to me, as that was my general strategy last round. However, you are mistaken because I did lose one (Ollie), who I really wanted to move on. But as few votes as he got, it was a lob for any voters who came afterwards to catch if they felt so inclined. Turns out there were three more voters after me and none voted for him.

I also lost another of 'my' characters whose votes I skipped last time: Katar. He would've gotten thru if not for those last three votes pushing others in front of him. Again, it was all a calculated risk, and Katar was a casualty. There's no doubt that my strategy saved Ted, though, and contributed to Booster moving on. But my favorite three lived to see another round in the end. Hopefully, Blue & Gold and Firestorm will continue to get enough support to advance another round. I'd be very surprised though if all three do....

Actually no, I was referring to someone else who most likely used the same strategy

Although I knew you had used a similar strategy, which I would have done if I were in the same situation. In fact, my votes this round are somewhat reflective of that strategy; I arranged my top 4 in anticipation of how others might vote.

I gotta thank you for helping save Booster, Beetle and Firestorm! But yeah, both Booster and Firestorm were worryingly close to elimination last round.

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana)
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Booster Gold
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Vixen

Ha, the top six are currently five women, and Martian Manhunter.

The bottom six are all dudes.

We are all girl crazy up in here!

It's also kind of neat how many of the smarter League members are still around. Flash, Atom, Blue Beetle and (half of) Firestorm are all scientists, and Stretchy Ralph is an investigator.

(Team needs more lady scientists, obv. Was Kimiyo the only science-lady?)

I'm not surprised that the top scorers (as of now!) are all female, though I would be surprised if we end up with an all-female top 5. It hasn't happened before and I think some of the guys can give some of the girls a run for their money!

I think Kimiyo was the only female scientist. Oracle was also pretty smart, but more in a "am great at gathering info and coordinating and using existing tech" way, and not really in an "I can invent a lot of stuff" way.

The Hawks have some scientific expertise because of their familiarity with Thanagarian science, but they weren't really thought of as scientists, were they?

Doesn't seem like it.

Comics are pretty inconsistent about that stuff.

Superman, according to the Silver Age, is 100x smarter than a human (5th level effector intelligence, compared to a humans 3rd level effector intelligence), has the sum total of Kryptonian art, literature, science, etc. downloaded into his noggin (as of post-Crisis Man of Steel), and can think many thousands of times faster than a human (thanks to being able to move and react and process information at light speed), and yet he's very rarely portrayed these days as being 'a brain.' When he is, such as in the Silver Age, when he would whip up crazy contraptions, or use advanced scientific knowledge, or even by Byrne, when he would do stuff like replicate a serum to cure someone of Gold K power loss in the blink of an eye, it seems to get brushed aside by the next writer, particularly when he's hanging around merely mortal 'smart' people like Bruce or Lex, who, as the saying goes, are about as relevant to him as the world's smartest termite.

Yeah, when you think about it, the Kryptonian science and the super-speed and learning abilities should have placed Kal and Kara (and Lar and Laurel!) much higher on the "smartest heroes" lists. But noooo.

Some other alien heroes like the Martian Manhunter and Maxima and perhaps even the New Gods should also be placed much higher on the "scientist" scale. But I think they were usually shown as adept at USING existing equipment, and rarely used for building or creating new inventions. I think that's fine though, as it gives the "pure" scientists like Atom or Batman or Doctor Light a nice niche.

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz)
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)



Revised

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onzz)
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)

I think Green Hal is gone, Wolf.

1. (Pre-Flashpoint) Elongated Man
2. (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)
3. (Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna
4. (Pre-Flashpoint) Martian Manhunter
5. (Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm
6. (Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)

Thanks for the catch, Set.

You know, this made me realize that we've barely discussed Hal this game. He's probably been discussed less than Clark and Bruce!

We haven't discussed Booster very much either. And Barry and Ray, we've only started discussing this round.

I'd be interested in hearing from fans of these 6 about why they like these characters.

Booster, for example. Do you guys think he was better with Beetle, or without? I think he was forced to grow up a bit more after Ted died. His short stint with the Conglomerate made me sad, but it made sense given his characterization at the time. Losing his temper about the lack of respect the League gave him? Made sense too, given his origin and former status as a football star.

Then we have Hal, who (I think) has become more "reckless" and carefree in modern times. I don't think he was quite like that in the Silver Age, was he?

thothkins and I both touched upon this before, but Ollie and Katar have also both become louder and more argumentative in modern times.

And Batman, of course, has also become darker and much less of a people person in more recent comics.

And then there's Superman. Did anyone expect him to do better on a board dedicated to his other superteam, the Legion?

... and Peebz decided to answer my question about Booster Gold with a thread! (and started one for Elongated Man too).

In alphabetical order, here are the threads for characters still in the game:

Booster Gold

Elongated Man

Firestorm

Hawkwoman

Vixen

And here are the ones for eliminated characters:

Apache Chief

Doctor Light

Etrigan

Fire and Ice

John Stewart

Steel (Hank Heywood)

1) (Pre-Flashpoint) Flash (Barry Allen)
2) (Pre-Flashpoint) Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol, Silver Age)
3) (Pre-Flashpoint) Elongated Man
4) (Pre-Flashpoint) Atom (Ray Palmer)
5) (Pre-Flashpoint) Zatanna
6) (Pre-Flashpoint) Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)