Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Calling the Roll of LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #2... spoilers...

Hello to a fellow Tennessean! What did you enjoy about this issue? And what will keep you enjoying the stories in the future?

Maybe it's the self-contained stories? Or the extra-long issues?

I liked this team's take on Dreamy, too-- though I enjoyed depictions of her between Giffen and this one just as much. None of them came together this quickly, I'd definitely agree.

I can't wait to see Jeckie and Vi, either! But I'm really looking forward to seeing how WaK interpret Tinya. Maybe my old favorite from the Grell days will be back in my list of favorite Legionnaires.

Speaking of which... #2 should've had me in heaven-- it featured 6 of my all-time favorite Legionnaires in one issue for the first time in a decade! E-Lad, Sun Boy, Cosmic Boy, Brainy, Shady and Dreamy. If Lyle had appeared, it'd have been a grad slam!

I enjoyed the issue, very much so... but I'm not 'feeling' Brainy, yet.

True... but that didn't happen in the LSH! As Dean (Sketch Lad) later points out, the Precommandos call Dreamy 'Nura' in #2, as well.

I did too... the latter distinguished her from the several other shadow-casters of the comics universe. And tied in neatly with a part of Talokian culture seemingly forgotten in the transition of old to reboot... that of Lady Memory and the desert tribe.

We haven't seen enough to rule out these ancillary abilities, but it doesn't seem likely that they've carried over.

You'd think there'd be some sort of narcotic that'd do the trick. She should've asked Element Lad along to turn a bit of Naltorian atmosphere into sleeping gas. Or maybe she could carry an atomizer with a sleep-spray... one with a moon and drifting clouds on it. A 31st century Kathy Kane...

I'd say the banter between Cos and Brainy actually broadened the character more than the ending... that scene was the capper... the punchline.

I hope we get treated to more Legion leader humor. I also hope WaK keep the former athlete background... I think that's a good addition to Cosmic Boy in general.

Looking back over the issue, I think I've discovered that my reservations are almost completely based in the art and Kitson's history as artist of L.E.G.I.O.N. That and Brainy's out-of-comics mention as 'science advisor', not member of the team. This isn't a criticism of Barry's art... far from it. I'm just not comfortable with the choice that's been made to remind the reader of Vril Dox this heavily.

It looked like the whole border was glowing, not just the symbol of either the element he was transmuting, or the element he was transmuting *to*. Maybe they all glow when he's scanning? Just because E-Lad was waiting for Brainy's scan doesn't mean he wasn't doing one of his own.

Actually, it was Sun Boy who had the spat with Cham.

I'm quite eager to discover the fate of Trom, as well.

I *love* the aspect of combining the flight ring with martial arts! What a visual idea... very cinematic. I like the brawler/philosopher mix, too and I agree that he made a great fighting partner for Shady. I thought he had potential in the earlier scene as a great partner for Dreamy, as well. He was the one who first called her into 'play' (aside from Nura herself, probably).

How do we know the High Seer didn't foresee the Public Service's destruction? Hmmm. Maybe what occurred is exactly what the Seer knew would happen. Possibly what he wanted to happen.

Though I enjoyed the Khundian aspect to Dreamer's training, I guess I'm glad that Dream Girl seems more of a 'homegrown' kind of gal. However, I'll miss the prospect of her broadening her dreams through stints on Titan, Xerox, etc.

I have to point out that just because Dream Girl dreamed (or didn't dream-- I love this aspect of Nura playfully mentioning her power... using it whether she's actually had a prophetic dream or not) that she'd marry Brainy, *doesn't* mean that they'd necessarily *have* to have a romance.

Imagine their child, though...

That'd be interesting, I suppose. I kind of think this Shady'd have done the same for/to any Legionnaire, though. It didn't seem personally directed, really.

I hope you're right about Shady and her powers.

The interiors reminded me a bit of something familiar I couldn't quite place. At first I thought it was the sets aboard the living starship, Moya on FARSCAPE. Then, I remembered a long-dead series put out by DEFIANT comics and former Legion scribe Jim Shooter that had very similar-looking alien interiors. It featured either a character called Lorca or aliens called the Lorca... I still can't quite place the name of the series...

Sigh... maybe there'll be some reason for Gates-lovers to be glad sooner rather than later.

But could always *appear* human when necessary.

Note that no 'civilian' name has been uttered in the LSH, as yet. [/QUOTE]Good point - although we have had Lyle. That sort of made me assume the other names were the same. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Barry Kitson more or less said that they were, for the most part. Here, I'm not thinking so much of the issue of whether or not the Legionnaires have the same civilian names we're used to (at the moment-- that *would* concern me, though) as I'm wondering why the Legionnaires themselves don't call each other by their given names. Or if they even know them.

Hee, hee! Maybe Supergirl's the one pining for her Brainy boy in this reality-- she's off searching the galaxy for the Brainy-bot she created as a replacement while fevered, not dreaming her invention would end up advising a team of super-heroes!

Or laughing at him before he says it.

Everyone seems comfortable with this Brainy but me... and I don't *dislike* him-- just not used to him yet. He's the biggest 'cognitive dissonator' for me, so far.

GASP! Oh, NO! Grown-up cooties!

I agree with you, for the most part. 1). Though I'm not yet convinced that E-Lad *has* to touch *everything* in order to transmute it. That's going to be particularly problematic with gas-to-anything-else transmutations. Or liguid-to-other ones, as well. 2). I *really* hope E-Lad was relying on Brainy for confirmation and/or advice about side-effects (not the best choice of words) here. We'll have to see him in action with no Brainy in sight or hearing to be sure of anything, I think.

There is a problem in terms here, isn't there? Elemental transmutation might conjure the image of turning fire into air or water or earth, mightn't it? We have to keep an open mind, though... maybe this Element Lad *is* accomplishing 'molecular' transmutation. It isn't what other Element Lads have done, historically.

I dunno-- I liked him. I sort of wonder why he isn't the 'combat advisor' or something, similar to Brainy's position as 'science advisor'. Though we've yet to see that really made concrete in the series itself.

I want to see more of the Naltorians... certainly more of Nura. Will she be dependant on articial means of consciousness alteration?

I actually see a pretty organic 'through-line' between this Dream Girl and Dreamer. More than I would've between preboot one and this version-- unlike almost everyone else.

I'm *very* curious about her life before joining the Legion... more so than about many other (but not all) of the characters we've seen so far.

Yes, this adds immeasurably.

I can't believe I didn't spot this until you mentioned it, Dean! But I didn't.

I still wonder if the Legionnaires know each other's civie ids-- or if they choose not to use them.

Definitely... I liked the in-story use of the alien's touch-communication and physical secretions, too.

Has she worn star earrings in other versions? Hmmm... maybe she's met Donna Troy.

I *like* the clouds! I think there should be a bit of blue somewhere in her top, though, to tie it all together.

You have a thing for fish-faced warriors? Oh, you mean the *other* guy!
He is intriguing, isn't he? I wonder what those facial markings indicate?

Y'know-- it'd be kind of cool if this is hinted at from time to time but isn't actually confirmed or denied for a good long time. Sort of like the Adult Legion stories from Adventure through LSH #300.

While I wanted to see the dialogue leading up to the blows!

I didn't begrudge Brainy the space, though. Clearly he's going to be a central part of the new legion. As he should.

So much we don't know-- what else might he have been working on? 'Unparalleled'= lots of wiggle room, for the writers.

I'll miss the concept of the 12 mostly independent tracks of thought, if they're no absent.

That's what I'm afraid of-- I'd really dislike that. Even if it is well-told and illustrated.

Love Cos-- turning deaf ear to Cos slams. Wonder who'll get the first honorary 'inspirational speech' this go round? Or the more desperate measure of Braalian Slap Therapy?

Guess we'll have to wait for the E-Lad spotlight... whenever that gets scheduled.

I don't mind the soul-patch... it fits the mischievous facial expressions we've seen. And dovetails (at least for me) with Element Lad's earliest characterization in ADVENTURE.

Now, now-- don't make fun of other races' physical characteristics. Didn't you know Talokian's have spiked *heels*-- and I don't mean just their shoes.

Entertainig dork? Wasn't that a movie?

He's also inventive-- creating (or adapting) his own martial art utilizing anti-gravity... spiffy.

Obviously.



It passes. Mine did after Zero Hour. Curiously, in some cases it proffers immunity, while in others it fosters a tendency to catch the disease again and again.

We don't yet know that any other Legionnaires want this, do we?

Definitely after. The events of #2 take place a week after those of #1. In addition, the closing scene of #1 takes place some time after the battle on Lallor... which in turn takes place after the civil exchange earlier in #1.

I don't mind when covers aren't *exact* reflections of what's inside... but they should *suffest* an *idea* of the contents.

And it should be a rule... one written someplace... that if a character appears on the cover, they gotta have a role in the issue. Doesn't have to be a starring role, but they gotta be there.

#2's cover on #1 would have made more sense. And #1's cover on #2 would have as well!

Thanks for the quote, Mario. That sentiment is fine when it comes to cover composition, theme, etc. But I still say, if a character is looking out at me from a cover, I have a reasonable expectation to see that character somewhere in the book when I open its pages.

Maybe not THE DEMON... but The Devil-Fish!

Maybe Cham, Jan, and KK were playing a new 31st century tag team version of chess...

I agree that the characters on the cover should appear in the book and that the covers to issues 1 and 2 would have been more appropriate if they were switched.

If the sky and clouds on Naltor are green, how come they're not green on Nura's pants?

Just got my copy yesterday. This was a remarkable issue.

Dream Girl -- hair color issues aside, this is clearly the ultimate Dream Girl, integrating all the best aspects of her previous incarnations (Flaky AND brilliant, non-chalant AND kick-ass, smart AND sexy) into a truly impressive new synthesis. Her relationship (?) to Brainiac 5 is brilliant, a great example of how starting the characters fresh from the beginning (rather than trying to re-tread the past) can lead to interesting, logical and entertaining new stories.

Karate Kid -- he reminds me a great deal of the original Shooter KK -- confident, physical, humorous, but very, very disciplined.

BTW, did anyone else get the impression that Dream Girl and Karate Kid have been more than just colleagues? In the whole "clock me/dream" sequence, he touches her hair & neck affectionately BEFORE she asks him to hit her, and then he seems very knowledgable about how her sleep-based visions work.

I also really love how Waid incorporated time/prophecy-oriented phrases into the Naltorians' dialogue. Especially "clock me!"

Brainiac 5 -- Why wouldn't the smartest man in the universe want to run it? This may turn out to be Brainy's central character arc for the new series (along with his possible Naltorian paramour). He clearly has the brains, but it takes more than brains to govern successfully. Again, the science/sorcery conflict seems obvious in retrospect, which means it is a brilliant insight by Waid to build a story around it.

Cosmic Boy -- A sense of humor, thank God!

Element Lad -- I like his distinctive look and it seems to fit very well with character. It's worth saying that one of the best things about Barry's art is that the Legionnaires DO look distinctive and like "real" people. I liked the implication of cultural/style differences in his banter with Karate Kid.

Shadow Lass -- Does she love the Legion because it's an excuse to hit people? I love her "dark elf" appearance. Again, she seems a true synthesis of past incarnations, not as clingy and melodramatic as the Shooter/Levitz Shady, but a more urbane, humorous and sophisticated tough-girl than the DnA Umbra.

A final note: there has been much justifiable discussion and praise for Barry's character designs (since we had such wonderful previews), but with LSH #2 I think we begin to see how good Mr. Waid is at making characters interesting, distinctive and humorous through very well-crafted dialogue.

I didn't notice it, either, so don't feel bad. But you could be right about the secret identities. OTOH, in a place as information rich as the UP, is it even possible to keep people from knowing who you are just by calling up info based on your face?

I thought Brainy said he was replacing the SPs? Or was I just translating it that way in my head because I'm thinking police force SP to police force LSH?

I thought this issue was really well done in every way. I can't find anything at all to bitch about, other than having to wait for the next issue.

No, we don't but quite frankly it'd be unrealistic after Lallor that there isn't a militant faction.

Because running it is a *lot* of work, and we genuises are a very lazy lot. If someone offered me the chance to rule the universe, I'd turn them down.

Well, maybe I'd take it just long enough to make it so lightning automatically struck telephone solicitors & spammers, but then I'd be out!

Others on this thread have mentioned Shady being depowered. If played accurately, shadow casting should be very powerful. After all, most futuristic weaponry is usually portrayed as light based, she should be able to effectively make forcefields against laser and similar weaponry.

Of course, Brainy's forcefield (assuming he still has one) should be easily penetrated by lasers since you can see him through it, it's clearly light permeable. And yet, Brainy's field was always presented as being proof against lasers while Shady's field let lasers right through. Makes no sense. Don't these comic book authors understand basic physics???

Um, pretend I never asked that.

It did come up in JLA's Rock of Ages arc. The Atom realized that since he could see Darkseid, light could get through his force field. So he miniaturized and rode through on the light from a flare.

Other than that, I guess we have to assume that all these fields block light above a certain intensity. And let oxygen and CO2 through, but nothing bad. Or something.

But I agree, I always thought Shady and Invisible Kid should form the Legion Anti-Laser Squad.

I don't mind Shady being 'depowered'. I never liked that darkfield 'shadow force blast' stuff. Simple projection of darkness is a classic simple power. I never understood why they messed that up by introducing this nebulous 'mystical darkfield' thing. Shadowcasting is straightforward, a classic superpower rooted in the real world (whic is to say there are shadows in the real world, but what *are* mystical darkfields? they simply don't exist, the concept is just vague and annoying.)

Jim Shooter in her first few appearances wrote her power intrestingly and well, and that's about the only time it was! Honestly, for all the years she was an active Legionnaire, I think I can only recall her using her power twice. In every damn story for 25 years all she seemed to do was gaze into Mon-el's eyes and say 'my love'

I always liked the character, almost always hated how she was written.

Needless to say I really liked Umbra! (BTW, if you read her origin in 'legends of the legion' you see exactly why reboot Tasmia was so much more edgy and angry than the Earth 1 one. She was brought up only seeing her mother twice in rituals where they couldn't speak! Had E1 Tasmia had such an upbringing she probably would have been angry and all too. So the two versions of that character aren't really that far apart.)

Anyway I'm liking this version of her so far. A very good balance of the previous two. If Mon-el turns up please don't have her saying 'my love' and clinging to him for 30 years, please? Because I hated that. I really really really hated that

Oh and I hate the colour of Nura's hair too. Platinum please! The shade of yellow chosen is a particularly unpleasant sickly shade that reminds me of dried egg/vomit/urine. Sorry to be indelicate but it has to be said! How can Dream Girl be Dream Girl when her hair reminds you of weewee?

Give Nura back her proper hair colour!!!

I agree 100% with everything that Infectious Drura just said.

I much prefer Shady with simple shadow casting powers too. When she got that darkforce-whatever-it-was power in the reboot all she did was become just another blasty character who stood there and pointed at things. Boring! This Shady needs her wits about her and I find that 1000 times more interesting.

Ha! So who was KK's partner?

They really should've... Star Boy and Shady have in common the fact that they could potentially be members of a heroic lineage dating back the 'Heroic Age' revered by the LSH. We don't yet *know* that they are, though. And, of course, Brainy has his own DC lineage backing him as the central figure on #1.

GREAT question! Why aren't they? Maybe Naltor has blue skies and white clouds during part of their year?

Let's go for the simpler approach. Maybe she bought them on Earth.