Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Multiversity

Very true.



Yeah.

Pariah is a special case, since he's from a universe that retroactively never existed, and since his universe retroactively never existed, the Anti-Monitor retroactively never existed, and Crisis on Infinite Earths... Aahhh!!!

What where Pariah's powers anyway? Flying and crying, appearing at every disaster and moaning about it? What a loser!

If DC gave half the push to characters like Lady Quark or Big Barda or Vixen that they kept giving to Wonder Woman, I wonder if they'd have more luck reinventing Diana over and over in an attempt to make her fit into whatever niche they want to mash her into.

She got killed in the story where they reintroduced Supergirl properly to the DCU. She was seen in R.E.B.E.L.S. as a Black Lantern.

R.E.B.E.L.S.? I vaguely remember the art being good on the only issue I have of it. I think a Legion Brainy appears in it. I guess I just struggle with A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S.*


*I did have to type that. Gah!

DC's alternately neglectful and abusive treatment of all their female characters except Wonder Woman is sickening! To go back to Kimiyo, they put her in the Justice League only for her to be freaking written out immediately! She didn't even get a dignified exit! Knowing a bit about DC's office politics of the time, I almost think there may have been some anti-Wolfman sentiment among other writers and editors, because he had lost his editorial position shortly after Crisis after airing some dirty laundry to the fan press.

As for Multiversity, from my point of view, I'm extremely skeptical about this turning out really well. To me it has two things going against it: 1) Huge delays on a project from initial announcement to eventual publication pretty much never live up to the hype and anticipation. In fact I'm struggling to think of an example of one that DID live up to it all. 2) Morrison has a spotty record at best with satisfying me as a reader. There's just almost always a disconnect in his style where he never just grabs me. Basically, I think he's tremendously over-rated.

And I'll just BET you that this thing costs at least 5 bucks an issue when it's solicited. I'll be hard-pressed to take such a risk for something I feel won't deliver.

Me, too, except for the superlative Flex Mentallo miniseries.

Okay, and I thought All-Star Superman and 7 Soldiers and New X-Men had their moments. But that's about it for me.

Of his recent stuff, I liked Happy and Return of Bruce Wayne alright. All-Star Supe was good, and most of his Doom Patrol was excellent.

Exactly! And this was despite her being featured on the issue 1 cover. Oh well, at least she had some short stints since then. And her appearances in the JLU cartoon were good (she wasn't featured, but she had some great scenes - saving Superman once and Batman another time).

Oh, don't get me started. It would be nice to have Kimiyo (rightfully, IMO) take her place in the League, with her strong, forceful, and yes, slightly bitchy personality.

Lady Quark fit well in L.E.G.I.O.N., and I'm glad her death was undone.

Let's also bring back another great Wolfman creation, Kole.

And I completely agree with Set above, there are tons of other great female characters.

Harbinger, well, if they had defined her powers a bit better I think she would have been a good fit for the League. And sadly yes, she died as an archivist on Paradise Island. Off-panel, to boot.



He was also invulnerable to harm and could "sense danger", big whoop. He's the JLA Trouble Alert in human form.

Re Titans, to this day I'm baffled by Wolfman's choice to kill Kole and keep whiny crybaby Azrael. Right, because we need more winged people who can fly as opposed to the rarer crystalline powers that Kole possessed. I do get that the likable Kole was chosen for death because readers would miss her more, but it's still quite a waste. (She did get a good death though, unlike poor Harbinger).

Re Morrison, sometimes I think he focuses too much on the weird concepts he's bringing in. Sometimes, like in some of his JLA issues, he can handle them all. Other times, he just seems to get stuck in the quicksand (see: JLA, Rock of Ages and Final Crisis). Sometimes the weird concepts are so overblown that they detract from the overall story, and it becomes "weirdness for the sake of cool" rather than "weirdness for the sake of telling a good story".

For the longest time the only Morrison I'd ever read was JLA and I was like "why do people constantly go on about how great this guy is?" That run is so over-praised IMO.

But then I read All-Star Superman and Seven Soldiers and Batman (particularly 'The Black Glove') and... NOW I GET IT! This man can write!

I would definitely call myself a fan now. I'm trying to complete a collection of his Doom Patrol to see how his early work compares.

Jury's still out on Multiversity though. The slightest reference to anything DCFU-related and I'm not buying it.

Doom Patrol stands up pretty well. There were a few sagging moments for me, particularly when they were off world. It picked up again, building towards the end.

Zenith is well worth a read. It has the early Morrison pinching ideas form every book and favourite comic he has. The result is a lot of other people's really good ideas all in one storyline. A lot of concepts taken from Alan Moore's Captain Britain/Marvelman. A situation that hasn't really changed form then to Multiversity.

In fact, considering Zenith's overall plot, you could read it as an alternative to Multiversity. Yeowell's art really takes off as the story progresses and that's well worth looking at.

Agreed. That's why I never got into his Doom Patrol run.

I had forgotten, though, that I did like a lot of stuff from his Animal Man, although it has a lot of flaws.

My sentiments exactly. What's really depressing to me is that JLA came right after what I consider his masterpiece, the Flex Mentallo mini-series.

A bit of trivia: JLA wasn't Morrison's first choice for a mainstream DC property, Teen Titans was, but they'd promised it to another writer. Hmmm...that would make a good thread in the Titans forum...

I think at least part of the praise on JLA was due to the huge relief that it wasn't anywhere near as poor as previous issues/runs.

Good point, Thoth. There hadn't been a really solid traditional JLA story since, what, the classic JLA #200?

While I used to really abhor the back-to-basics approach, I've now come to accept it as part of the cycle of corporate properties.

That said, I still think Morrison's JLA run was all flopsweat. And smug know-it-all Batman always saving the day.

It's not that I didn't enjoy the focus on lesser lights such as Zatanna, Arrow and Canary. But DC generally throws out the bathroom along with baby and bathwater. That cycle as Fanfie mentions.

There has often been that tension between the likes of Superman & Batman editorial to keep control. Added to this we now have various editorial mandates "from above" relating to marketing, pitches for this or that or for one of the many drafts for "Events."

So Conway's JLA suffered. Likewise it was very tough for later writers to get anywhere near the cast they wanted. The relaunch from Legends is a good example of numerous competing issues.

Compare Morrison getting his way to poor McDuffie who was forced onto the fourth version of every idea he came up with issue after issue.

Morrison did create little niches for his characters. Much as he did for the X-Men. Personality traits were enhanced.

Batman was aloof and distant. But there was general respect all round. Plus we got to see lots of Bat Science.

That applied to the others as well, and made each of them stand out as a distinctive voice. The problem is that there's often a failure to remember those traits are enhanced briefly for a reason. Before you know it, everyone is a complete basket case to each other. Which is most of Batman over recent decades.

While I can see the reasoning behind the enhanced traits, I am also of the opinion that Morrison's portrayal of Batman in JLA was just as heavy-handed as those which followed.

Morrison's Batman evolved a lot over the years. He's almost contemptuous of him in Arkham Asylum and Gothic, then he's elevated far above his stature to hang with the gods in JLA. I think he finally really starts to break through in the JLA:Classified arc that leads into 7 Soldiers (where he teams him with Squire). Eventually, of course, he gets to the point where he takes over the Bat books and does his epic multi-year run where he pulls in every iteration of the character and tries (and very nearly succeeds) in making it work. Another reason to hate on the New52, as it really threw a wrench into the works and diminished the end of what was shaping up into a huge epic.

Getting back on topic, one thing I think that makes or breaks Morrison for a lot of people is his artistic collaborators. He likes to leave a lot "between the panels" and certain artists really make that work and others really, really don't. He seems at his best when the synergy seems to be firing on all cylinders. Since Multiversity is essentially him working with a hand-picked crew of his favourites, I'm hopeful we'll see some of his better alchemy at work.

That's a good insight, Dave. A lot of Morrison stories "jump" from scene to scene and it takes a skilled artist with good storytelling ability to fill in the blanks.



My memory of Morrison's JLA run is hazy, but I do remember Batman was my least favorite member then. I did appreciate his occasional focus on some of the smaller-name heroes.



My memories of Morrison's JLA run agree with this

Yay Ibby! Your taste is impeccable.

Great minds think alike, Fanfie

Indeed!

A teaser:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/?attachment_id=342464

AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!

Oh there are noises and liquids coming out of my face holes right now from excitement!

Can I get you a tissue?