Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 110, L*67)

Switching the cart and the horse, though....


Picking up on Hermit's post, there are usually reasons or at least excuses peoples use to justify their prejudices. What if a developed Daxamite science discovered an "alien" race had instilled that vulnerability eons ago, because they predicted the powers that would become the Daxamites once they left their world?

Other possible plot points, why instill vulnerability as opposed to decimating the still undeveloped population.



Or instead of an alien race it could have been Trapper or Mordru or Darkseid or... Earth. All would have been interesting plot points to develop the reasons xenophobia developed, IMO more powerful than just a planet full of arrogance.

That's also why I thought it would be interesting to know if the Daxamite xenophobia had developed before or after they found out about their yellow-sun powers annd their lead weakness.

I wonder if and how the Daxamite xenophobes reconciled their genetic superiority with the fact that they remain non-powered under their native red sun? Perhaps some took it as a sign - oh, we only get these powers under yellow suns, we must have been given these to protect ourselves / lord over those who live in yellow sun systems!

I had a fanfic notion for a Crime Syndicate story in which Ultra Man was part of an evil Kryptonian race that called themselves the 'Golden Empire,' because they had conquered a large area of surrounding space (any system with a yellow sun), leaving a sort of patchwork of red sun systems unconquered, because their powers didn't work there.

That sort of thing has always interested me, living in a country that has hundreds of tiny micro-states (Native American reservations, which are considered sovereign territory, mostly) tucked away within it. Is the UP an old-school continguous territory, or is it, much more likely, a patchwork quilt with vast expanses of non-UP territory intermingled with it, as various planets, colonies, etc. join or don't join. Are there entire *other* inter-world alliances and governments mingled in, perhaps involving worlds utterly inhospitable to earth-human types (methane atmosphere, gas giants, water worlds, silicon-based life-forms, plasma aliens living in suns, etc.)?

Just as not every part of the US is technically 'America,' are there sections of Earth that still consider themselves independent and not part of the UP? Is Luna or Mars independent, and, even if not, are there communities scattered throughout the Earth solar system that aren't part of the UP, or even part of *other* power-groups (such as an Atlantean group, with territory in the seas of many worlds, and perhaps even part of the UP, but scattered across certain sections of dozens of worlds, rather than having one 'world' of their own)?

In sci-fi stories with 'federations,' such as Star Trek or the Legion, maps tend to show clean lines dividing 'our' space from Klingon space or Khund space or whatever, even if that doesn't really make a lick of sense for a Federation (or United Planets) that *isn't* an overbearing conquering race that expands and colonizes in a linear fashion, regardless of the desires of whoever lives in the systems 'in their path of expansion.' In theory, the UP being a peaceful *voluntary* alliance of worlds (or even specific cultures on a single world), would be a weird spider-web that goes in all directions, but has huge holes in it, where worlds, cultures, etc. have chosen not to sign up and remained independent. For those cultures closest to Earth (or wherever the center of power is for the great alliance), it would be a 'Puerto Rico' sort of situation, where they get many of the benefits of UP membership (well patrolled space, for instance, close to the policed space lanes and centers of commerce and opportunity) and few of the regulatory downsides. For those on the fringes, closer to the actually expansionary or belligerent sorts, like the Khunds, or Dominators, or Sklarans, joining the UP might seem necessary, and even a culture that isn't terribly fond of UP rules and laws (like 'no slavery' or 'no capital punishment' or 'no unregulated time travel' or 'no antimatter weaponry' or whatever) might bite their tongues and sign up, since the alternative is being enslaved by Khunds or dragged off to be experimented upon by Dominators...

You raise a lot of interesting questions and ideas there, Set! I would love to see your take on the Golden Empire. I think your fic would be much more effective at exploring the issues you cited than the few Postboot stories tackling it did.

In the Postboot Dark Circle story, the Affiliated Planets was formed as a front for the Dark Circle. Many worlds (Xanthu, Orando, Winath) joined it without knowing the true nature of the alliance. One issue showed a map of UP worlds vs. AP worlds, and it looked like what you described above - a "spider web" with holes in it, both UP and AP worlds mixed in together.

Sadly, though both UP and AP continued until the DNA run, their continued coexistence after the Dark Circle's destruction wasn't explored all that much.

There was another short story in a Showcase issue which showed two sister worlds. One wanted to join the UP and the other didn't. An official tried to block UP membership of one world because the other would have been left behind.

Again, I agree with virtually all of this (which is why I quoted so much of your post!). Among all of the “epic” Legion stories, this is probably the best executed. The Legionnaires’ mission is clear, and the stakes are high, but believably so. They are clearly outmatched in power by their adversaries, who want nothing more than to toy with them to death. It is only by ingenuity, teamwork, and wits do the heroes prevail.

Every scene builds upon the tension of the previous scene, and every scene affords us an opportunity to see Legionnaires (plus Work Force members!) in action. Very often, “epic” Legion stories become overcrowded and suffer from the necessity to give everybody something to do. The writers worked around that this time. For one, they kept the focus on a small number of Legionnaires who have major roles throughout the story—Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Live Wire, and Andromeda—while most of the others are subordinated to a few scenes. Yet even within those scenes, the heroes are the “stars”—protagonists of “mini-stories” that make the reader care about what they are doing and trying to achieve. XS’s scene is heartbreaking as the Daxamite toys with her inability to save everyone.

Then there is Jo and Tinya’s scene. By the ‘90s, it had become obligatory for a character to die in each “epic” comic book story, and this scene is no different. Yet it is extremely well handled. Jo and Tinya finally declare their love for one another, only to have their joy (and ours) cruelly snatched away. I can’t help but feel that the writers were playing with our preboot notions of how their romance was supposed to go (yet, ironically, they parallel Tinya’s demise during 5YL—it just happens a lot sooner). And, as you note, Tinya is the one Legionnaire who should have been above harm. She is taken unawares in a moment of emotional and physical vulnerability, and the outcome is devastating for Jo and for us.

My favorite scenes, though, are Andromeda’s. They do exactly what they are supposed to do. She gives Roxxas his commeuppance and redeems herself—and Violet’s unexpected role is a delight. Their shared arc comes full circle here, with all of Violet’s suspicion over Andy dissolving into one moment of communion: “Take him down.” “Love to.” And, of course, it’s Violet who is left to mourn when she thinks Andy is dead. If someone sheds tears for you, you can’t be all bad.

The climax of the story, with the three founders, Brainy, Brande, and Jan, is also very effective. It builds upon what has previously been established about Tarnium and the stargates. It was ingenious to send the “Four Horsemen” to a planet with red sun.

And yet the ending does fall flat somehow. I don’t mind that it’s not a “feel good” ending—in fact, I applaud the writers for giving the Legion’s a very costly victory. This almost serves as a “coming of age” tale in much the same way that 5YL did: the world is not a pleasant place (even though Moy’s art anomalously renders it as such), and being a hero is hard. Even when heroes win, it isn’t always cause for celebration.

But somehow that last two pages rush through the denouement to wrap things up. We go from Tinya’s demise to Andy’s possible demise to the statues to Chu revealing Andy’s true fate. It just happens too quickly without letting any of it sink in. Perhaps if the full-page statue image had been omitted, things would have flowed better. After all, the statues do nothing but confirm that the Legionnaires think Andy is dead—but we surmise that from Gim and Vi’s exchange.

The statue “scene” is troublesome for another reason. No one else is in the panel, so it seems disconnected from the rest of the story. Yes, we know the Legionnaires honor their dead by building statues of them (as James’s own statue reminds us), and yes, we know there are now three dead Legionnaires (at least momentarily). But the “scene” provides a maudlin and unnecessary attempt to manipulate readers’ emotions. The rest of the story was doing just fine on that score.

No story is ever perfect, though, and Legionnaires Annual 2 provides quite a bang for the buck, a successful wrap up to more than a year’s worth of stories.

Grade: 94.2 (A)

I was going to chime in on this but forgot!





I think you both said everything relevant about Jan's introduction. The only possible thing classically heroic about Jan was his demeanor when facing the Daxamites who destroyed his world, and his skill - LSH 71 tells us only he and his father were skilled enough to create tarnium. Slim pickings, I know. It's almost as if the writers had to rush to include him because of his role in the defeat of the Daxamites, but ran out of space to flesh him out further.

I'm trying to remember, but I don't think Jan really gets pushed into the spotlight until the Mordru storyline (L* 48-50). And even then he spent much of that time sitting the battle out while trying to control his powers. L*55 is a much better use of him, as he comes up with the winning strategy to beat the Composite Durlan. He also has a couple of panels in L*36 where he forgives Andromeda for her role in the White Triangle war.

Hear, hear. I'm glad we agree on so many points!

For the end of the story, I think you hit the nail right on the head. We don't feel hollow because it's not a feel-good story (I think having an extremely happy ending here would have been a poor fit, given the amount of death and destruction caused by the Daxamites and also by the amount of danger the Legionnaires faced). But you're right that the ending was too rushed. We're left trying to make sense of things, but we are not able to just yet because our minds are left reeling. Maybe the writers had intended it to be an abrupt ending because they planned to explore the fallout in later issues, but it still didn't work perfectly.

You raise a very interesting point here, and it touches on one of the least satisfying aspects of Legionnaires Annual # 2 for me. We're led to believe that the severity of the four White Triangle member's actions is due at least in part to going insane from taking the anti-lead serum not calibrated for their bodies.

But insanity, really? That's a convenient device that prevents any sort of character development and fails to explore some of the underlying causes of racism and war, as you, Set, and BB mentioned.

And yet some of that simplification may have been intentional. I've theorized that the reboot was targeted at a primarily young audience and such an audience isn't likely to be concerned overmuch with the motivations of racist bad guys. In some ways, that's a shame because the reboot creators missed an opportunity to educate and not just merely entertain.

One of WT members is named Fethro Jarn; his name reminds me of Jethro of the Beverly Hillbillies. Perhaps it was the reboot creators' intent (or assumption) that some Daxamites were uneducated hillbillies whose isolation from mainstream society fueled their need to be superior and to toy with "lesser" races.

Laurel's backstory in LSH 70 revealed that her family lived in a White Triangle camp in the desert. She mentioned that their extreme views had led to them being shunned by many other Daxamites. This supports your suggestion above.

I thought it might be interesting to take a moment and tally the grades I've given each issue so far. Although the grades are entirely subjective, I think some interesting patterns have started to emerge. In general, the Legionnaires issues have scored higher than the LSH issues (due, in part, to better artwork). Also, the series seems to have reached an early peak in quality as the White Triangle story began to build.

Below is how each issue scored, an average grade for the series as a whole, as well as the top 8 highest scoring issues and the lowest five.

LSH 0: 76.1 C
L 0: 93.4 A
LSH 62: 63.0 D
L 19: 78.4 C+
LSH 63: 90.3 A-
L 20: 86.5 B
LSH 64: 85.0 B
L 21: 80.0 B-
LSH 65: 90.3 A-
L 22: 96.7 A
LSH 66: 90.0 A-
L 23: 99.0 A+
LSH 67: 72.6 C-
L 24: 97.3 A
LSH 68: 87.6 B
L 25: 79.2 C+
LSH 69: 80.0 B-
LSH An 6: 65.0 D
L 26: 84.2 B
LSH 70: 93.4 A
L 27: 88.8 B+
LSH 71: 85.7 B
L 28: 72.3 C-
L An 2: 94.2 A

Total and Series Average: 1952.9/24 = 81.3 (B-)

Top Eight Highest Scoring Issues
L 23: 99.0 A+
L 24: 97.3 A
L 22: 96.7 A
L An 2: 94.2 A
L 0: 93.4 A
LSH 70: 93.4 A
LSH 63: 90.3 A-
LSH 65: 90.3 A-

Five Lowest Scoring Issues
LSH 62: 63.0 D
LSH An 6: 65.0 D
L 28: 72.3 C-
LSH 67: 72.6 C-
LSH 0: 76.1 C

And, in case anybody's interested, here's the rubric I've used:

I. Plot/Structure/Script
A. The story sets up a dramatic situation,
develops it into a climax, and resolves
the initial conflict.
5 4 3 2 1 x 10 =__________

B. There is neither too much nor too little
exposition; exposition is interegrated
naturally into the story
5 4 3 2 1 x 5 =__________

II. Characters
A. The story clearly identifies the main
characters and gives the reader reason to
care about them.
5 4 3 2 1 x 10 =__________

B. The characters behave and speak in
natural, credible, and appropriate ways.
5 4 3 2 1 x 7 =__________

III. Art
A. The art supports and enhances the
story and is appealing to look at.
5 4 3 2 1 x 10 =__________

B. The art makes effective an imaginative
use of layout and setting and character
designs.
5 4 3 2 1 x 5 =__________

IV. Themes
The story connects to something larger
than itself; it makes the reader think and
explores the complexities or ambiguities
of life.
5 4 3 2 1 x 5 =__________


RAW SCORE =__________

Raw Score Divided by Total Points Possible ______/260

TOTAL SCORE ___________

100-98: A+
97-93: A
92-90: A-
89-88: B+
87-83: B
82-80: B-
79-78: C+
77-73: C
72-70: C-
69-68: D+
67-63: D
62-60: D-
59-0: F

It looks like a lot of your top-scoring issues were ones which were well-executed in their attempts at developing the personalities and backstories of the Legionnaires -

L 23 is the girls' night out issue
L 24 is Triad's origin
LSH 70 explores Andromeda's backstory and xenophobia through banter with Brainiac 5.

L 0 and LSH 63 had portions which showed the Legionnaires simply having fun (much like in L 23).

L Annual 2, LSH 65 and L 22 were the conclusions of the White Triangle storyline and parts 2-3 of the Planet Hell 3-parter, respectively. Though they had very well-written plots, we also praised them for having many good character moments while ably juggling nearly 20 characters.

By the way, I likely won't be able to write any reviews until the weekend of March 29-30. Please feel free to continue, and I'll catch up as I can.

Great observation, Ibby.

It's also interesting that most of these issues focus on the female Legionnaires, though I don't think that was a determining factor in my evaluations. Rather, the writers seemed to have developed the female characters much better than the male characters so far.

I think my main criteria is that I'm looking for a good story, and my criteria has changed over the decades, informed by college and graduate studies in writing, as well as having written a comic book and a novel. I can understand, perhaps, why the writers made certain choices even if those choices upset fans. And I'm going for understanding what effect they hoped to have on readers, whether they always succeeded or not.

It's been fascinating to apply what I've learned to my first love, comic books--and to the Legion, in particular.

So long as you're taking a break, though, I will, too. There are some other things I need to focus on.

I agree with you there. So far, most of the character development of the males has been as "part of the plot" (i.e. Gim's "natural" development during the Tangleweb stories, Cos as leader, Lyle as the sneaky spy). Unlike with many of the females where the writers really make it a point to shine the spotlight on them (i.e. Triad, Kinetix, Andromeda, XS, Apparition and her love story with Jo).

I very much appreciate how you review the story from a writer's perspective as well as a reader's. It's certainly given me much to think about in writing my own reviews.

I'm looking forward to when we'll both be back and reviewing in tandem again. At the same time, I hope some others can chime in too!

Ibby, He Who, I just want you guys to know that, as someone who missed this era the first time around and still has a LOT of catching up to do, your reviews have been an education. I look forward to seeing you both return from your break, and I especially look forward to when you reach the DnA issues.

Thanks, Fanfie. It's good to know our efforts are appreciated.

Yes, thanks for the note of appreciation Fanfie. I'm glad you're finding the reviews informative as well!

Unfortunately, there are some truly horrible storylines (LSH in the 20th century and the whole Bizarro thing, for example) to work through before we get there. But I'm getting ahead of myself. There are still plenty of good issues left in what I consider the opening "mega-arc" of the Postboot/Reboot/Earth-247 series (you'll know what I mean by "mega-arc" when we get there, I promise).

Thanks for the warning, Hermit.

The pay off at the end of that mega arc is amazing, though. Hermit is right - you'll know it when you read it!

And after a long hiatus...

Legion of Super-Heroes 72
Absent Friends
Issue information

Summary:

This issue doesn't deal so much with the effect of the White Triangle invasion on the galaxy, as its effect on the team. The deaths of Apparition and Andromeda are heightening tension among UP officials; Tinya's mom wants to shut the Legion down more than ever, the Alephian government is worried about Kinetix's absence, and morale is low among Legionnaires and allies (such as RJ Brande). Cos tries, but fails, to play politics; this causes Pres. Chu to limit the Legion's freedom and to block the memberships of Live Wire, Ultra Boy and Jan Arrah. The pressure causes Cosmic Boy to become aggressive and emotional, and he alienates his fellow Legionnaires.

Thoughts:

Ah, the pressures of leadership. I've been there before, and I can say that Cos' reactions in this issue are realistic. He tries his best, but curve balls and people pulling him in all directions are causing him to snap.

It's depicted as a slow buildup too - we see signs of this in previous issues. Cos tries his best to take care of the team, but in short order he (not purposely, but absentmindedly) alienates Shvaughn, the ambassadors of Aleph, Braal and Titan, and finally President Chu.

He really should have waited; I'm certain Chu wouldn't have come down so hard on him if he hadn't stormed off in front of the cameras. It's admirable that he wants to boost the team's morale so, but sometimes timing is key.

He wants to help soothe Brainy, but understandably can't tell him the truth about Andromeda. That was wise, but what wasn't is his denying Brainy's request for leave. Surely Legionnaires can get time off? I'm sure he could have done something about it.

Then there's the Garth incident. I can understand Cos removing him from the Legion, as President Chu checkmated him. But the normally cool Cos overreacted by magnetically pushing Imra away. Hothead Garth escalated, of course, and walks away - Garth's reaction may also be spurred by some jealousy; Imra doesn't exactly make it clear to either boy which one she likes, or even if she does like either of them. The issue ends with Cos yelling at the gathered Legionnaires and alienating them even more.

Granted, the other Legionnaires aren't being very understanding, but this just highlights a sad breakdown in communications. Past issues have shown that if Cos explains his reasoning and command decisions, most of the other Legionnaires will understand or at least accept them. He doesn't even try to talk to them here. Imra's the only one who seems to understand the pressure he's under, and Cos shuts her out too. He could really use a friend right now, but he seems all out of those.

In other news...

A couple of pages tell us that White Triangle cells through the galaxy have been obliterated, members arrested, and that's that. I guess the writers are more interested in exploring the effects on the team rather than on the UP as a whole; possible sanctions against Daxam aren't even mentioned.

A lot went on in the few pages showing the funeral.

- Interestingly, even as Violet thinks nobody will miss Andromeda, we get a line from Leviathan remembering how she came through against Tangleweb.

- A Durlan bows to Chameleon, making me think his dad's spiritual leader post is hereditary.

- Kinetix's missing status is mentioned, but the writers don't show us how she's doing

- Ultra Boy is about to leave the Workforce, but this is left hanging

- The Trommite philosophy is touched on, with Jan Arrah talking about envying his people. In the annual though, he said that no punishment could be harsh enough for the White Triangle members. So, what's going on here, Jan? I suppose death is welcome, but murder is not?

Oh, and as if things weren't enough, we have Doctor Regulus on the horizon.

A lot happened this issue, and the writers are juggling a lot of subplots! This all gives the impression that the team is in a state of flux and is heading for turbulent times. In the end, I feel much like Cos does - reeling and a bit confused, and wondering what will happen next.

Yay! The reviews are back. Thank you so much, Ibby! I hope He Who can chime in, too.

Kinda funny, though, that the first issue since the hiatus is a Cos-centric one, at just the moment that I'm turning him into an out-and-out villain in my Bits fanfic.

Thanks for the warm welcome, Fanfie! He Who and I have talked about it and he'll try to jump in as he can, though work's keeping him busy. I decided to start over again but to slow the pace down while I charge ahead with my own fic.

There is a central threads to both versions of Cos - his very strong sense of responsibility and conscientiousness, which can drive him nuts!

Good point. He has always walked a very fine line, though I don't think it excuses some of his behavior in both the Postboot and Preboot.