Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (LSH 110, L*67)

First off, this issue sports one of the best covers in any Legion boot: Ultra Boy showered with mysterious white energy (which will be revealed to be sparks from Garth or Ayla in the story), unfazed, front and center, with that determined look in his eye, ready to take on anything. Even the blue-white logo seems to reflect light from the sparks, creating one of the most visually arresting covers in Legion history.

Jo's unexpected arrival on the cover steals the thunder away from Ayla, who in turn steals the thunder away from Garth. Things are happening fast and furious, and new/old characters are thrown at us before we've had time to get used to the ones who are already there. This approach works both for and against the series as a whole and this issue in particular.

The situation over Garth's status creates the oddly fitting impression of the Legion as a high school football team: The Legionnaires are mere "players" at this point, and have no say in Garth being bumped for a "better" player. Even Coach Brande can't keep Garth on the team, so the team captains, Rokk and Imra, go directly to Principal Chu. The prez clearly has anticipated such a confrontation: She marshals her evidence that Garth is a runaway and potential troublemaker who idolizes his criminal brother, yet she ultimately leaves the decision up to Rokk. Notice how she doesn't give Rokk the choice of keeping both Garth and Ayla on the team--why the team should have only one representative from each world is not clear--but it's a crafty and diplomatic move that gives Rokk the illusion of having a choice.

This scene and many of the other character bits are very real, and remind us that the Legionnaires are still kids. Garth's exchange with Ayla, for example, is rife with the jealousy that exists only between siblings. They fall into familiar patterns of behavior, with Garth acting immature and Ayla tactlessly reminding him that she's the responsible one. Then Garth, sounding like a six-year-old, says, "I hate you," and Ayla comes running after him to apologize. One gets the feeling they've played out this exchange their entire lives.

I'm less happy with Ultra Boy's role in the story. It's unclear what he was doing at Legion headquarters: Did he come to recruit a Legionnaire for the Work Force, or is he merely spying on the Legion? If so, that seems out of character for Jo (or perhaps I'm reading his preboot personality into this new version) and rather dumb—to spy in plain sight. This scene also provides a very awkward way of getting him to notice Tinya: Watching her cry and wanting to "make her feel better." Not only does that line come off as creepy, but it’s a ham-handed way of foreshadowing their relationship--'cause, you know, it's Jo and Tinya, and they have to be together.

The fight between Jo and Ayla and then Jo and Garth also seems forced. Ayla, the “responsible” sibling, attacks Ultra Boy at a moment when he isn’t doing anything? Even if Ayla wanted to prove herself, as Imra says, this is way over the top. Garth’s actions are somewhat more believable: He has a lot of tension to release and, in spite of his earlier exchange with Ayla, he’s very protective of his sister. We can do without the “something about the lightning” speech (as I recall, he thinks the lightning will drive him and Ayla insane because he believes it drove Mekt insane). This unnecessary bit of melodrama suggests that the writers didn’t have enough confidence in the characters or in the story to be dramatic enough.

I was impressed with how the fight ended, however, with Garth seeing the damage he’s caused. For the first time, he realizes he is, in fact, irresponsible and he does the honorable thing by quitting. I wish the story had ended there to give the reader time to digest this transformation in Garth’s character and his departure from the team. Instead, Jo whisks Garth away—a minute ago, they were enemies; now they’re best buddies—and we’re on a whirlwind ride to another cliffhanger.

In a lot of ways, LSH 64 is typical of comic book writing in the ‘90s and beyond: Keep the story moving; have something happening all the time so readers with short attention spans won’t get bored. This carnival-like atmosphere works against the story and the series as a whole. Too many things happen in rapid succession, and none of it really has much impact. (This could by why none of the Legionnaires have reacted to James’s death apart from Gim’s understandable guilt.) The reader almost has to fill in the missing emotional context.

Tinya’s scene with her mother is typical of this. Both characters come off as one dimensional and over the top. Tinya, who in her brief Legion career has faced Tangleweb and Mano, quakes in her boots while talking to her mother and then runs crying from the room? Winema is so disappointed in her daughter for joining the Legion that she disowns her? Perhaps the tendency to be a drama queen runs in the family.

Strangely, the most fully realized character so far appears to be Gim. In two short scenes, we see different sides of him we haven’t seen before. He exhibits patience and encouragement in teaching Cham Interlac (this despite Gim’s earlier distrust of Durlans), and he shows forceful restraint while subduing Garth: “I don’t dare [let go of you]! Look around you, Garth! Look what you’ve done!” Perhaps it’s me, but I “hear” a measured, straightforward tone in this speech. The Gim of a few issues ago would have shouted Garth’s head off.

That sort of nuanced character growth is hard to pull off in a team with ten members and counting, but when it works it is very effective—and much more satisfying than a carnival ride.

Grade: 85.0 (B)

You know, this illustrates a thing I have often thought....with his guilt over James' death and his introduction as a more important member of the Legion than Colossal Boy in any other boot ever has been, I think it's a shame where they ultimately decided to take Gim. I understand why they did it and I guess we can talk about that more when certain story events happen, but I do think they wasted an opportunity to make Gim a more integral part of the team than his predecessor ever was...

Good point, razsolo.

Although Colossal Boy was never one of my favorite Legionnaires, he's quickly become one of my favorites in the reboot--not because of his power but because of his personality. Gim's Science Police training makes him a valuable asset to the team, and he exhibits a wider range of emotions and behaviors than any other character so far. In a way, these qualities make him the prime candidate for being killed off--we care about him, and we feel something when he dies.

Unbridled fury and incandescent rage? Oh yes, I felt something when Gim died.

I was thinking more in terms of grief, but as long as you reacted to the story in some way, that's a good thing.

I thought that the postboot Gim had many similar attributes, but with a lot more panel time.

He's a solid, dependable jock. He is naturally, and through his SP training, dependable in thought and action. He's a Legionnaire you can count on. Despite his height, it's his down to earth attitude I like best. He had a natural grasp of the important things when he showed no hesitation in declaring his love for Yera* despite appearances and cultural differences.

*Vi being rather dropped out of things despite being the victim being another issue.

Since Gim Allon has always been Blacula's favorite Legionnaire in any incarnation, I'm not so sure if that reaction was a good thing

Postboot Gim had a wide range of behaviors and emotions, which definitely made him one of the most interesting AND realistic of the Legionnaires. He showed a great head for tactics and practicality, but I can cite several moments in future issues where a) the writers wasted the opportunity to highlight his training (i.e. LSH 80, LSH 82, Legionnaires Annual 2); and b) where his temper (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not) would flare up (LSH 82 is one of the issues in which Gim comes across very poorly; there was also LSH 76).

I find it sad as he actually seemed to regress after a certain point; LSH 68 was a good issue for him as he showed plenty of the good forceful restraint that HWW described him using on Garth in LSH 64. He became inconsistent after that.

Since every Legionnaire is theoretically somebody's favorite, then killing off anyone would seem to be a no-no.

Anger is a perfectly understandable and justifiable emotion when people we care about die. If Gim's death provoked that kind of reaction, the writers were doing their job.

I look forward to reading the issues you cite, Ibby. If Gim's personality was inconsistent, it could mean he wasn't dealing with James's death or other issues very well. On the other hand, it could be more sloppy writing.

I would lean towards sloppy writing; in LSH 82 his throwing Star Boy under a bus (not defending Star Boy's Legion membership but easily agreeing to Xanthu's wanting him back as an Amazer) prompted Kid Quantum II to call Gim out. When Gim learned she was James' sister, he spouted off a canned response about them doing everything they could. He showed no signs of guilt the rest of the issue.

I also noticed that besides Garth and Imra, none of the Legionnaires are shown visibly reacting to Garth's ouster. Only Triad and XS, in one panel, are shown noticing Garth's reaction - yet none of the others rush to comfort him. Some, like Tinya and Gim, even rush to welcome Ayla.

As for having only one rep per world, Chu uses the phrase "we must maintain the balance". Most likely it's also diplomatic and political move - each UP planet wouldn't want to be shown up by other UP planets having more Legionnaires on the team.



Future issues will show that this Jo doesn't have the skills or common sense that Preboot Jo did. I can think of at least 4 battles where Tinya has to tell him how best to use his powers - which is pretty dangerous IMO for someone who can only use own power at a time!




Though I regularly face top-level corporate clients, there are some instances where I'm afraid to face my own parents I think it's sadly realistic for Winema to be over-the-top; many teens have trouble understanding why they can't get their parents' approval. Tinya hinted in Legionnaires 0 that she wanted to join the Legion to gain Winema's respect.

Winema herself likely holds Tinya to impossibly high standards and has strict ideas for how Tinya should behave. I find it fairly believable that she'd lose her temper that way and say words she doesn't truly mean.

It was inevitable that the Legion would inspire other super-teams to come into existence, and that McCauley's rivalry with Brande would lead him to create the first copycat Legion. So, as the title says, "Enter the Workforce!"

This is a handy way of bringing in a bunch of established Legion characters into the reboot without having them join the Legion, or at least not yet. So we've got Ultra Boy, Karate Kid, Spider Girl, Evolvo, and a new female version of Inferno, along with ex-Legionnaire Live Wire.

But if Live Wire thought this new team was going to be anything like his last, he is sadly mistaken. For one thing, McCauley calls all the shots--and they're all bad. And Inferno appears to be a psychopath who thinks nothing of burning criminals alive.

This scene is well intentioned but a little too goofy for my tastes. McCauley is such a bad micro-manager that it's a wonder the kids in his charge don't get vaporized by the criminals they are trying to stop. But Garth's increased admiration of Ultra Boy gives us more reasons to like the latter and anticipate his eventual inclusion in the Legion.

After Page 9, it feels like a completely different story. Our focus shifts to the Legion and their mission to Planet Hell. Invisible Kid and Triad induldge in typical teenage shenanigans by teasing Brainiac 5 over his name and learn that he doesn’t share their sense of humor. Brainy (who hasn’t warmed up to that nickname yet) guides the Legion through some needed but clunky expositon regarding Planet Hell, and the mission gets underway.

There are a lot of really good character moments in what follows and some good attempts at black humor (such as the warden revealing that he is the warden). And, of course, complications arise, leading to the next cliffhanger. (Why does every issue have to end on a cliffhanger?)

All of this is well done, but it feels like the story is underdeveloped, even for a two-parter. There’s just not enough plot here to take up a 22-page story; they could probably have told the entire Planet Hell tale in one issue if they’d omitted the Workforce prologue.

But we do get an imaginative science fictional setting, and a feeling of what it would be like to be sentenced to a prison in which there truly was no escape. The blind prisoner at the top of Page 20 illustrates the despair of the place.

However, such raw emotions often seem at odds with the goofiness of other aspects of the story. Spark can perhaps be forgiven for thinking Chameleon has died, since she has just joined the team, but the scene came off as rather trite and silly. I can’t tell if the writers are trying to make readers laugh or not, but it feels as if they are not sure what kind of story they want to tell or what effect they want to have on readers. As a reader, I’m bounced from the farcical depiction of the Workforce to the despair of Planet Hell to the teenaged wisecracking of the Legionnaires, and I’m not sure what to feel.

It’s almost like the creators want this story to be all things to all readers, but no story can be that.

Grade: 80.0 (B-)

I've been thinking myself whether it is better to categorize Inferno as a sociopath or as a psychopath. Nearly all sources I've accessed agree that there is a distinction between the two, but some contradict each other as to which is which.

These articles agree that a psychopath is more "highly functioning" than a sociopath; the psychopath is able to maintain a normal job, plan, understand (though not necessariy experience) normal human emotions, and is able to pretend to be normal.

I think Inferno does tend towards being a psychopath; despite her powers I doubt if McCauley would have hired her if he couldn't at least control her. And she is able to restrain herself enough to work with the other Workforce members. I think she only burns enemies alive because McCauley lets her; if he'd expressly ordered her not to she would be able to control herself.

Despite my all-consuming rage at the death of Gim and the fatwa I've put out on Tom Peyer for coming up with the idea for it... I actually think certain aspects of the issue it occurred in were very well-written (I'm a big fan of the "No... No... No... No... .... Yes!" Vi reveal for example) - but that said, I still completely and fundamentally and totally disagree with the sentence I've quoted above.

I was infuriated by Lilith's death in Graduation Day too. But that didn't make the death scene or any other aspect of that wretched trash good writing. On the contrary. It was clearly just a pathetic Winick/Didio attempt to make that crappy series of theirs "matter" since they knew the Donna Troy death was just a fake-out. And that's still a contender for the very worst series I've ever read in a 25 year hobby.

Ditto the wholesale slaughter of interesting characters in Cry For Justice. No writer who writes the lines "He's the Atom. I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to pain." can be said to have been doing any sort of job, unless it's a bad one.

Gim's death may have ultimately ruined the Reboot for me, and I agree that a lot of the anger I felt might have been more to do with the loss of his potential than the quality of the writing (though there were lots of problems there too - "his heart's desire"? Ugh!; the fact that half a dozen Legionnaires who could have easily saved him just stood around watching I'm die!) but to say that anytime someone gets angry at death in comics is because the writing is good is flat-out wrong IMO.

Fair enough.

I never read Graduation Day or Cry for Justice, so I can't comment on those.



It will be interesting to see if I come to the same conclusion about Gim's death as we go through these re-reads; it has been several years since I read it, and I read it the first time after he was already dead, so my perceptions may be influenced by those factors. It could very well be sloppy writing.

But I want to clarify that your paraphrase of my statement isn't wholly accurate. I did not say "anytime" a death provokes anger, it is "because the writing is good." What I said was that if Gim's death provoked a reaction, the writers were doing their job. It is the job of writers (particularly fiction writers) to provoke some kind of response in the audience. The response does not have to be a happy one. Writers can make the readers sad, long for better days, proud of their nation, ashamed of the human race, etc. They can have any effect on the readers they desire--but they have to know what effect they're aiming for.

When a beloved Legionnaire, such as Jan or Garth or Gim or Lyle, bites the dust, the writers must know they are playing with dynamite--because so many of us already care about the characters. To give that character a send-off which honors such devotion is hard--but it is something writers who are any good at what they do will aim for.

Did Gim's death do that? I don't know yet, though I respect your judgement that they didn't. Going simply by the way Gim has been depicted so far (through LSH 64), he has been set up as someone I care about, and that makes knowing his fate all the more tragic.

So, are you saying your corporate clients are like Mano?

Seriously, your point is well taken. I just feel that the scene as presented is over the top and does not give us enough setup. It's been five issues since Winema and Tinya were introduced and since this "win Mom's respect" angle was commented on, as far as I can recall. It would have been nice if there had been a reminder and even a slow build-up to the scene, either in this issue or the previous couple.

The article was fascinating.

Based on the descriptions, I'm not sure if Inferno would be classified as either, though I'm going by my memories of her role in the Team 20 arc. She didn't seem all that murderous, only antisocial. How then do we reconcile her depiction in Legionnaires 21? I think you're right that she burns the man because McCauley lets her--she's testing her boundaries, as it were, and probably hasn't developed a conscience or a sense of empathy yet. Whether or not she ever does remains to be seen.

On Inferno: I think we will have more to go on after reading LSH 65 and Legionnaires 22. There is one more instance of her burning an opponent to death, and one more of her threatening a Legionnaire. I've commented on those in my posts but I think we'll have an enjoyable time discussing it after you've done your own re-read



Some of them can be I have one in particular who always looks like she has a bad case of gas. And that is why my team and I regulalry go for beer on Fridays.

And your point on the importance of a reminder or slow build-up is good as well. You are right in that it came out of left field.

I think some of the over the top things like this are there just to get the point across quickly. There’s just to many characters and plots going on to spend too much time on one relationship. The very quick romance between Tinya and Jo is one of them too. There’s just no time to delve into those things. Not if you want them to finally beat the bad guy. To me the Legion would only be best if it was like five titles! Then they would actually be able to focus on things like that. I think at the time we were really lucky we had two titles!

For characters that have long histories together, like Ayla-Garth or Tinya-Winema or Brande-McCauley, I don't mind not spending so much time on them. But when you have characters that have only just met like Tinya-Jo or Imra-Garth, I'd much prefer a more realistic build-up to their relationships. Otherwise it'd feel too shoehorned (oh, okay, so they were together last 'Boot, let's get 'em together again!)

I get you but I also wouldn't want it becoming a True Legion Romance comic either. While I love the relationships I'd rather see them fight some bad guys.

Yeah, I agree that I don't want them to focus too much on the relationships either. There was a period in the Postboot when I got sick of all the "Oh Jo, Oh Tinya" stuff.

I'm reminded of Legionnaires 75, which had a good balance of romance (the problems Imra and Garth were having) which they partially resolved while fighting some bad guys. That was a good issue.

I agree. That's one thing that bothered me about the Jo-spying-on-Tinya scene: It goes exactly where we expect it to go. Wouldn't it have been more interesting if Jo had thought, "Why is she bawling so much? What a crybaby!" or, "Gee, that dark-skinned chick is really hot!" instead? That would have been unexpected and leave some doubt in the reader's mind as to whether or not this Jo and Tinya would become a couple.

(Of course, it might also have angered the purists who can't accept anything less than Jo and Tinya as the perfect couple.)

Ya as soon as I read that, I thought of the uproar it would cause. I liked the relationship changes in the threeboot some.

The Threeboot made such radical changes to some characters from the very first issue (Star Boy! Phantom Girl! Triplicate Girl! mute Saturn Girl! Micro Lad!), so I was also primed to expect major changes across the board. I didn't mind at all that Tinya and Jo weren't together there because of how different those characters were from other Tinyas and Jos.

Other than not being with Jo, how did they change Phantom Girl? They didn't change her power or race or anything. I think they even went back to her being inter dimensional. in Post ZH they had her from another planet in the UP but originally she was from an other dimensional earth.