Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #1 (SPOILERS)

Since Mark has repeatedly mentioned the Society for Creative Anachronism I took that as less of a hippie commune and more as a Reniassance Faire ...of Space! (of course)

I would love to see a new batch of readers come onboard. Its just too bad DC can't experiment like Marvel has with their slick papered books. They did it with the Baxter books in the 80s and that went well. Of course, we could buy almost 2 1/2 issues then for the price of one now.

It just bothers me to see the border and word balloons that are supposed to be white come across as grey. And Sunboy's sun symbol should be glowing. It came across good on some pages, poorly on others. The one that stands out to me the most is the fist-raising splash page. The colors there and the sky are almost perfect.

I'm positive Chris did a great job. Maybe when we get our first trade ( DC better do a trade this time around!) we'll see it how I imagine it was intended.

You can count me as a card carrying member of the Cosmic Boy Death League . Rokk was never a favorite. And I have to give Mark major credit for writing a Rokk that I found myself liking. Of course with my luck I probably won't be able to stand Garth.

If memory serves, we caught a couple possible-glmpises at the tryouts, when Umbra joined. Plenty of pre-booters had cameos in the background there.

Reading all your posts. Haven't read it yet. I can't buy it till next week I found out. Gotta cook paella for the entire family on Friday...New Year's and all.

LALLOR. haven't seen it yet but I've always equated the heroes of lallor to the X-Men cause I started reading legion at the same time as the X (Claremont/Byrne days). My first run in with the Lallorian mutants was the Colossal Boy-Vioet(Yera)-Duplicate Boy run in by Levitz Giffen. I guess since they were "mutants" I associated them with the X.

Maybe this dark world of lallor the young teen mutants are freedom fighters of sorts much like the X-Men. I've stated before it would be a nice nod to COCKRUM to have any new Heroes of Lallor be a bit more like his early X-Men. ohwell just thinking outloud. continue on...

Jorge

Well, I'm very very happy. The art was wonderful and I don't even have a problem with Shady's color--the muted greyish-blue looks a bit better to me than her previous pastel shade. It looks more like a "real" skin color, just like a white human doesn't literally have bright white or pink skin. The fight scenes were wonderfully dynamic.

Loved the Science Police protocol obsession--it makes them an ideal recurring opponent to the Legion without being particularly villainous. "You are interfering with a classification RTJ 988/Betadux 2.772-Dash-4 Crime Scene!" Heh. I too thought the two SP's word balloons were a printing error, and laughed out loud when I figured it out.

It was certainly jarring to move from the humorous conflict wih the SP to the bloody one on Lallor, but I don't think it detracted from the story. Lallor was necessary to show, as someone asked earlier in the thread, why you'd bother rebelling against a utopian society. Evidently, one reason is for the sake of the downtrodden in other societies.

Speaking of which, this issue gave us a whole spectrum of motivations for joining the Legion: from simple boredom and hatred of authority, through concern for UP youth rights and prevention of a draft situation, to interest in improving the status of youth on non-UP worlds. Plus your standard "be generally heroic and do good deeds" angle. That's exactly as it should be in a movement this big, and allows for diverse characterization without losing sight of the basic "youth empowerment" message.

The bit with Sun Boy talking to the non-core Legionnaires was really very inspiring. Tons of kids doing what kids do best--exchanging information and mastering new technologies (I take it "hyperpath" is the 30th-century version of, say, IMing)--in the service of social change. And it's great to see Sun Boy as their liaison, applying his massive charisma to something other than picking up chicks.

So this was better than I'd hoped, and I'd hoped for a lot. Weird, funny, and urgent--everything a superhero comic should be. Well done, Mark & Barry.

You never make paella for US (or more precisely ME) anymore, Jorge!
Where's the love?
I want New Years Paella!
(and put an L on it for the Legion year of 05)
(hey, i'm trying to stay on topic!)

Hi Guys - I can't even begin to express how happy the reaction to the book has made everyone involved in it! Thanks for the support and enthusiasm as always!

With so many posts it's a bit hard to deal with all the points that came up, but to tackle a few...

Micro Lad and Ultra Boy shouldn't look too similar, hopefully I've cracked that problem as I've drawn them more over the next few issues.

The problems the UP face aren't necessarily apparent to anyone in #1 - the Legion 'think' they know what's happening, as do the general populace, but is it the real picture? There are more revelations in #2

The root of the conflict isn't really a generational one - it may appear that way to many involved at the moment, but as more is revealed the issues are shown to run much deeper.

The logo headshots were changed when the decision to go from the square pictures on my initial cover were changed to circles and some of the headshots didn't quite work in the new frames. There will be new headshots each issue.

There is a VERY definite story behind how the Legion began and its followers came together; that will be revealed over the coming months.

Hope that answers a few topics - feel free to 'nudge' me about any I skipped!

And thanks again for all the kind words about the artwork! 2005 is going to start with my being a very happy chap!

Thanks for stopping in again Barry! It's heartening to know that those of us who are excited by the new book can bring you just some of the satisfaction you've given us

Cool Barry. I suspected this teens vs. adults anti- UP/SP thing was just the tip of the iceberg for something deeper. In other words the legionnaires themselves may be naive (imagine that...naive teens) to what lies beneath.

Also thought that this might the focus of just the initial story arc and we won't be getting hammered with it throughout the book.

Damn i have to read this book.

Jorge (p.s. Andy paella es pa(ra) ella. My gf and I make it together she measures everything I am reckless it's a good combo. cant wait)

I found the introduction really, really powerful.
"In time...all the fighting was done" really hit me. Is the future worth if everything meaningful has already been done ?
I think the UP can also represent apathy, not only "the adults". Powerful stuff indeed.
The cops talking with the 31 century version of a phone while in the same room...that already happens today. Anybody who has ever worked in an office can understand...
I wonder which legionnaires found that cure for the alien virus ? Brainy isn't the only one who discovers things, this time ?
Speaking of Querl, who knows what he's building in that dark room. There's a ton of things to be discovered about everybody in the team, but I just can't wait to see how Brainac 5 fits. We know only one of the rules of the new Legion (the names) and he's already broken that one !
Nice touch with Karate Kid: when legionnaires arrive on Lallor and everyone's shocked, he's already tanking care of the victims.
The powers are beautifully represented, except for Phantom Girl in the two-page panel: her legs turned invisible or what ?

Looks to me like she was phasing through that guy's crotch...

SB Kid

I was well aware of the context playing a part in the coloring. I just didn't think that this particular context showed off our colorful legionnaires in the best light for a premiere issue.

I thought the beginning battle with the macrobot was their chance to be colorful since it was a lighthearted scene. That was the scene that should have emphasized their colors. The Lallor scene was dark in terms of lighting and tone so it worked for me.

I agree the macrobot scene played much better color-wise. I'm not saying there shouldn't be darker, more muted scenes, where appropriate, in the book. I just don't think it was a great choice for the first issue. I'm speaking particularly about the characters whose powers weren't depicted in the earlier macrobot scene, like Element Lad. Just not an impressive looking debut for him IMO. This is also the first time we see Shady use her powers - not enough contrast between her dark shadows and an already darkly colored scene. No real necessary reason for Cos and Brainy to be in the dark in their scenes. A little light in their panels would have made for a better contrast with the grit of Lallor.
Anyway, didn't mean to pick nits - liked the book overall.

I forgot to say a few things:

Thanks, Barry!

Thanks, Mark!

Thanks, Steve!

Thanks, Mick, Chris, Phil, and everyone else!

It read like a labor of love, and it came out great! I know you guys went out on a limb - comics fundementalists can be quite a headache, I'm sure - but IT PAID OFF!!!

WOO-HOO! Finally read it! LOVED IT!

Here's my stream of conciousness analysis -

* The art - was EXCELLENT! Well done Barry! This is the best art I've ever seen from you! Too many cool moments to single out so I'll just say I loved it all!

* The costumes - have all grown on me! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Karate Kid's, Phantom Girl's, Light Lass' and yes, Sun Boy's! Most of the others just need a little tweaking and they'll also be fab - eg Element Lad's is great but it needs to be different colours, Star Boy's star-field needs to be more black and less blue/grey, Colossal Boy needs *something* to make it more interesting (maybe stripes down the sides?), I echo someone else's comment that Ultra Boy's logo needs to be heavier... just little things like that.

* The colours - are great but could be a little better. Its early days though so I'm sure they'll improve with time. The main things that need to be sorted out quickly though are Shadow Lass' skin (needs to be bluer), Sun Boy's hair (needs to be redder - and curlier actually Barry) and Cosmic Boy's hair (needs to be blacker).

* The intro - was great! This is a bold new era and deserved a few pages to set the scene. Loved the pages that showed the cityscape changing over time and then the fists raised in the air with the words "And we are Legion". I got chills!

* The macrobot fight scene - we've all seen before but really was a good, fun way to introduce us to a core group of members quickly and efficiently. Names. Powers. Personalities. Check. Check. Check. Loved seeing my fave member Gim being the first character in this new universe to to throw a punch and get a splash page!

* The Legion 'groupies' - are interesting and I'm sure are going to provide a wealth of story potential. (I can't wait to see a group of them branch off and form a Legion of Super-Villains. And the new reasoning behind the formation of this team means that at last the name won't sound hokey!) The only problem I had with this scene was with the character Beerm - or more specifically his name. I know the Legion has a tradition of unusual names but we should at least be able to pronounce them. Death to names like Beerm!

* The transmatter thing - OK I don't know how he did it considering my rabid dislike of DnA's thresholds but for some reason I actually didn't mind Waid's use of it here. I don't want to see it overused though and would prefer it if it was a point specific thing (eg the Legion have to come out of a transmatter thing at a fixed location on whichever planet they're going to - a bit like the stargates) rather than the 'pop out anywhere' thing that it seemed to be here. Jury's still out on this.

* The fight scene - was strangely unengaging. It wasn't bad but was probably my least favourite part of the issue. Its probably because my focus was so swept up in Rokk and Dirk's conversation that I was just glancing over the battle images.

* Thom and Lyle's conversation - was wonderful. Loved the humour! And loved Thom's story! A great way to wrap up the issue!

* "Eat it Grandpa" - is funny but please don't let us hear it again. I liked "Think fast" the fist time I heard it too, and then... shudder

* The characters - I'm so glad that the spotlight this issue was on the characters that haven't really been seen much in recent years - Sun Boy, Star Boy, Colossal Boy, Shadow Lass, Invisible Kid and to a lesser extent Cosmic Boy. Especially glad to see no Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad or Brainiac 5 in the first issue! Take that panel-hogs! A few quick points about the characters -

Star Boy - is my stand-out favourite! Loved his hard-luck, nice-guy personality. Added to a great costume, a great look (I support the race-change and think it was necessary) and a great power and he's my number #1 so far in the new universe!

Element Lad - totally support the adjustments made to his power! Element Lad has never been a favourite of mine because I don't like omnipotent characters but with this slight power limitation coupled with his cool costume (except for the horrible colours) and his mysterious origin and personality and I can already see Jan soaring up the ranks of my favourites list.

Sun Boy - love the glowing sun and his take-charge personality! Can't wait to see more leadership clashes between this fiery (should be) red-head and Cosmic Boy!

Phantom Girl - looks beautiful in every panel! I want to see this Legion stunner stay single for a while. For too long her personality has revolved around dating Jo and all the problems that that entailed. I want this Tinya to go down a completely new path.

Karate Kid - love the fact that at last this Val is clearly and unmistakably of a minority race. For too long its been is he or isn't he with him. No more wondering now! And love the huge symbol on his back!

Chameleon - like the gender-less identity but NOT keen on the loss of the antenna. Coming out every once in a while isn't enough for me. They're part of his identity just as much as Brainy's green skin is. We need to see them all the time.

Colossal Boy - IS ALIVE! That's reason enough to love this new universe! But you've gone a step further and given him a cool new origin! Can't wait to see his homeworld!

Well done to all involved! Can't wait for issue #2 and Dream Girl!

Just a couple of things I noticed.

1. When UB is talking about how his dog could find Lyle, he appears to be staring at where he thinks Lyle is...despite the fact that Lyle is off to the side being ruffled by Ayla.

2. He's also the first person to mention Phantom Girl.

I enjoyed the issue, too, have read it about three times. I LOVED the art (thanks, Barry), and am still looking for those little details that make it all so much fun.

And yet...

I'm going to have big trouble identifying with this Legion. To me, in many ways they came through as rash (as many teenagers are, so that's OK), unpolite and also incredibly smug. What the Lallorian adults were doing really was despicable, and I understand the Legionnaire's anger, but Cos' initial response (containment) really would really have been better given that they knew nothing of what was going on. So they look at a situation and automatically assume they know better. How arrogant! What right does the Legion have to plunge the whole UP into a war? Or even just sabotage the UP's diplomatic efforts? Are they elected officials or what? And fear of the future... well, sometimes the best way to deal with problems is to nip them in the bud (and I have a suspicion that that's exactly what the UP were trying to do). I hope to see a lot of guilty consciences and a lot of growing up when all of this hits the fan. I guess what I'm saying is that to my dismay to a large degree I'm identifying more with the antagonist of the series (SP/UP, although genetic tracking and lack of interpersonal contact do make me cringe) than with the heroes themselves.

See how bothered I am with all of this? Obviously Mr Waid did a good job in pushing my buttons. The Legion is a group of youths, and this came trough very forcefully. In this issue we saw some of the more negative aspects of being young: rashness, smugness, and yes, unpoliteness (Eat it grandpa? I don't know, but that rallying cry really offends me, and I'm 37!!!). I hope we see some of the more positive aspects of youth soon, or, as I said, I'm going to have lots of trouble liking this Legion.

But I'll certainly be along for the ride.

Man, I am getting old! (and am I ever glad I don't have teenage children!)

Juan

In the pre-boot universe, it was once specifically stated that Cham used his anteanna to anylize object he was not familar with, storing them in his memory for future possible use as a new form.

I've an idea that the anteanna work the same way when re-imagined.

I suspect that his anteanna came out on Lallor, not becasue he was going into battle, but because he was encountering new forms he had never been in close proximity to before.

The anteanna were not there in the clubhouse scene because, Lyle not withstanding, he had already anylized everything there before.

I agree Portfolio Boy. I think that's the direction Mark and Barry are taking Chameleon's antennae in too. And its not a bad idea. It means we'll actually see them serve a function for once rather than just sitting there on his head doing nothing. My only gripe is that he looks dumb without them. And I want the Legionnaires to look the best they can look.

Maybe a compromise is in order. Maybe Barry could draw them as lying flat on his head or really short or something when he's not analysing something, and then when he is analysing something they can extend to the length we all know and love. That way everyone's happy. Or at least I am.

I know I'm not keeping up well too with all these posts, but thanks again guys!

The comments about the Legion being hard to like - I can sort of understand - they are young, and powerful, and pretty opinionated, they don't even always agree with each other let alone the rest of the world as we've seen - but essentially they want to do the right thing...or at least most of them do.... Seriously though, it's a learning curve for the whole Legion - so hopefully you'l come to love them

Very good call on the antennae - it's also a matter of politeness to keep them withdrawn in the HQ - not everyone would like to think they're being scanned

Thanks again
Happy New Year!

HA! An excellent point! I had not extrapolated that far. I wonder if such is required, or just Reep being poilte? Maybe, Durlan anteanna etiquette is the re-imagined compulsary wearing of the Saturn symbol?

But Cham just looks so plain and boring without the antennae and eyebrows. Their absence, combined with the flat buttonlike eyes make him look like the gingerbread man or something.

I also agree that Element Lad's colors are awful.

That's exactly what I like about his new look. It makes him look alien, not like an orange human.