Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #7

Done. Let's all plan to take our time and post a review next week when we get the chance. Obviously, with a soft start and end time. This hopefully will be a lot of fun!

Thanks for getting the ball rolling again, Cobie.

Is it possible to um ... "reboot" this thread so the upcoming re-read starts with the first story in Archive 7 instead of picking up where this thread (that I missed out on at the time) stopped last year?

If not, I take this week to start re-reading to get caught up to where the thread stopped and comment here as I go.

CB, the others of us who are participating already read those and probably wouldn't want to re-read again already. HOWEVER, late-arriving participants are always encouraged to go back and read whatever they want to and chime in. We'll probably respond to your posts just as much as if it were the current story! :nod;

CB, I absolutely second what Lardy says: by all means review the earlier stories in the archive and we'll be glad to comment.

With us going on story per week to start, you could easily catch up in no time.

Also, FYI, #362 - 363 is a 2-parter, so we'll review both, correct? Everyone ok with that? Or is that too much at first?

It's okay with me.

Red three standing by.

Red Oktober shtanding by!

I can't believe it's been almost a year since we started this thread. I joined in commenting at the end of Archives #6, but I didn't manage to comment on any of Archives #7 when this thread started. So maybe this can be a brief "previously on Re-reading the Legion: Archives #7" as I highlight some of your comments and toss in a few of my own.

Here are some of Cobie's comments:



Nixon would be elected president a year later. He wasn't notorious yet.



I wonder why Supergirl was even mentioned in this story, unless it was to have the complete team appear. She only appeared in one scene after some of the Legionnaires, including Superboy, were sent to prison on Takron-Galtos, and she wasn't necessary for that scene. Then she up and heads home to the 20th century, leaving her Legion buddies imprisoned or on the run. That's a loyal teammate for you. It would have been better for her character if she weren't in the story at all.



I'm with you, Cobie, on all this. And with Lardy's comments too.

The things you don't notice on the first reading 47 years ago: On pages 2-3 the Legionnaires are shown working with trillions of gallons of "Anti-Atomic Fluid" and facing the SP's "Atomic Blasters". Then two pages later, when they return to their clubhouse, it's barricaded with "electric barb wire" and an "OFF LIMITS TO LEGIONNAIRES" sign. Yeah, that was an effective blocking strategy there, but perhaps it was intentional to demean the Legionnaires. Either way, it probably was a more visceral image for 1960s' teen readers.

The 3-D tele-news reader, Chet Bradley, was a nice nod to well-regarded news co-anchors Chet Huntley and David Brinkley of NBC's The Huntley-Brinkley Report.

Although I first read and loved these comics when they were brand new, re-reading them now 40+ years later I agree somewhat with Fanfie. These days I occasionally groan and wince at the plot devices, dialogue, and art. But I can still remember how the more innocent and less-sophisticated 12-year-old me felt when reading these stories. Now it's like two versions of me reading simultaneously. Quite fun, actually.

When most of modern superhero comics are unnecessarily dark, this stuff is great to read.

Keep the reviews coming!

Re Adventures 359, what I loved was that the last free Legionnaires weren't really the most powerful. Yet, they managed to pull through and save the day any way.

Also loved how each of the Legionnaires really showed their heroism AND camaraderie. They stuck to their heroic ideals and to each other even though the whole world was turning against them!

I'm not a Silver Age (or Golden Age) fan at all, especially not of DC's Silver Age output. Admittedly, I haven't read a huge enough sampling of DC's body of work from that era, but I've seen enough to know that I'm not going after any Omnibuses, Archives, etc. of any DC S.A. material. Marvel's Silver Age material is head and shoulders above DC's, imo, but I still prefer for the most part their output in the Bronze Age thru the eighties.

The storytelling and art overall just grew up during the Bronze Age and the eighties. The longer storylines, deeper emphasis on personal lives and the more detailed, less cookie-cutter art are the hallmarks. Plus, there was a sense that anything could happen--and usually did! Admittedly, it doesn't hurt at all that I grew up and fell in love with comics during that era.

But the Legion is and was special, whatever the era. And while I grew up and got hooked on the Legion just prior to the GDS, at the dawn of Levitz/Giffen, I also simultaneously read many of the Silver Age Legion classics concurrently, thanks to the healthy dose of Legion reprints in the Adventure Comics digests. So because of this, I also associate Silver Age Legion with my childhood, along with Bronze Age Legion!

But I stand by Silver Age Legion stories generally being better than much of their DC contemporaries. Legion was a little ahead of its time because there was more of a sense of change, continuity and drama to it than in the typical DC book. Many of those stories still hold up fairly well and are very memorable comparatively, even while many of the stories are indeed very much a product of their time and are as cliched as anything else published in the rest of the line. Even when the latter is the case, you still often got imaginiative sci-fi stories and a continuous injection of new Legionnaires.

So that's where I'm coming from. Other than the Legion, I sometimes wonder if the rest of DC would EVER have grown up if not primarily for the storytelling influences of Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams, particularly!

^And then there's THIS factor, as well!

That was such a strong theme in the story that it made Supergirl's departure that much more troubling. At age 12 I wasn't yet aware of literary techniques, so I blamed Supergirl rather than the writers. Poor Supergirl. But then, back then heroes often did dastardly things. Especially those crazy teenagers. Which, by contrast, is part of what made this particular story, and much of the greater Legion story, so unique and powerful.

I think reading DC Silver Age stories is similar to spending a lot of time watching 30's film noir, or reading gothic novels of the early 1800's, or watching film serials of the 40's & 50's. Or so many other things--hell, even reading classical plays or Shakespeare's works.

What you find is there often develops a series of tropes and literary mechanisms of the era that become incredibly pervasive. You also find that the limitations of the time--oft imposed by outside forces like the comics code or DC editorial telling creators to "tone down the soap opera"--force the stories to fit a pre-conceived structure.

The very best of these stories usually break those barriers, but for every one of those, you're going to get a hundred that don't. And that's okay--there is still a lot to like about those stories more likely to fit the mold. If you can prep yourself in advance you can even have fun picking up on these themes, and guessing who was making those choices. Obviously, a lot of these moments in time won't be everyone's cup of tea.

In terms of comic books, you all know I love the Silver Age. Specifically Marvel, but DC had some great things to offer--with Lardy being absolutely right that the Legion was foremost among them.

Clearly to me, who was 11 in 1992, the Bronze Age is equally as outdated as the Silver Age. And even now, it's clear the 1980's--which had so much good just like those other eras--is another outdated era that fits within this same topic here. All ages of comics books and other mediums will have those "things" that become clear in hindsight and feel jarring and corny. Some of them will appeal to you for reasons that are more about you and the art itself. Both those ages I mentioned, and all the "ages" before or since have some really fantastic high points. They also have some really shitty low points too.

I honestly think you simply can't pick up something printed in 1966 and look at it as just art or literature anymore. You have to view it with the eye of a historian--no matter how slight--in conjunction with the critical literary eye.

Yeah, I kept noticing that too. For such an involved plot in so little space it probably couldn't be helped, though. Nowadays it would take a year's worth of issues to tell this story.

It was ironic, I thought, that the renegade Legionnaires found Lex Luthor's lair from the 20th century, complete with food synthesizers and "a clothing machine that can instantly duplicate...Legion costumes...perfect in every detail" yet Invisible Kid, while standing in that lab of wonders, noted that they had no equipment to contact Supergirl in the 20th century. Darn the luck!



Yep!

In the past several years we've seen too many Legion stories end with a whimpering thud, even after months of plot "development". Bah! This is how you end a story!



Back in 1967 the water-control idea would have been both preposterous ("It's just a comic book. That could never happen!") and a symbol of Cold War fear. Now with Facebook, the NSA, media conglomerates--not to mention corporate efforts to buy up water supplies--Cobie is really not joking.



Agreed.

The next story is Mantis Morlo, right? I don't recall that being an, uh, favorite. I'm sure with my much more mature perspective I will better see all the deep hidden messages for a better universe. Or I'll get into quirky fun mode and just enjoy it for what it is.



From a perspective of someone that has never had to write "plots" on a deadline I wonder why write the story in the first place?

I can only imagine writing a story and it gets all the way to art before realizing, it doesn't work. Time is short, and then forcing the plot however to get it out the door. Or, maybe it was "bad" writing and the writer/editor never realized or cared that it was forced?

That's a very good point LT, and it bothered me as well. Although back when I was reading the original issue, it wasn't quite so egregious because the action was flowing really quickly. Still, when reading I was hoping Supergirl would pop in again at the end to help out. Yet... she never did.

These are all valid points, and in a way it was what I was trying to say in my earlier post. Basically, I grew up on Bronze Age comics and '80s comics. To me, superhero comics will just never get better than they did during those eras, even as I acknowledge that those times did have some incredibly low lows interspersed with all of the awesomeness. (I'd add, though, that none of those lows approached those of the '90s with those godawful gimmick covers and "hot" art styles being copied ad nauseum.) I'm a child of my time, and those sensibilities color what I like and don't like in my superhero books.

I currently collect and read (both are the same to me) zero DCU books and only a handful of Marvels. I love the wave of creator-owned comics of the modern era and especially all the diverse genres that come with it. But even with a few gems here and there, I can't help but feel that the best of the superhero genre is in the past.

When people refer to Golden, Silver... ages in comics they are talking about time frames more than styles?

In popular music, someone could do a send-up and I'd recognize almost immediately, what era, what style and I'm certainly no expert in music. If someone were to do the same in comics, I don't think I'd recognize it, if not for the art complimenting the fashion styles of the era. I wouldn't be able to recognize any change in writing style. Any send-up I can think of in movies or tv is of the "old" comics, the "golden" age I think. Are the other eras really studied and valued?

Would it be possible for a writer to take a theme and a plot and write the same story in the style of the Silver, the Bronze etc to where readers would be able to discern what era was bring imitated? Or are these just time frames, not styles?

Previously in "Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #7:" Adventure #361


We don't say "Not bad for a kid" when we review these stories. We critique just as though he were an adult professional comics writer of the day 'cause his work can stand up to it.



Historical assassins. When I re-read this story today I thought that was a cheesy plot point. Why would beings from "distant worlds" even know about, much less want to use, descendants of Earth assassins? But I don't remember wondering about that as a 12-year-old reader back in the day. I just thought it was a cool idea. That was one of the genius moves of DC with Shooter. What was on his radar as a student would have also been on the radar of DC's teen readers.



Superboy's "Quick! We have to get through the dimension-warp before it closes!" is a parallel of how Shooter ended the story. The revelations of (1) the historical assassins, (2) how they came to be, (3) the Dominators as holograms, and (4) the mission as a decoy all happened in one page--4 panels--and bam! done!

More from Adventure #361:



But we've read through 6 Archives of Legion stories before Shooter mentions this long war. (I'm assuming you're correct about this being the first mention of it.) And how long before it plays a factor in another Legion story?