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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 574
Active
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Active
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 574 |
As for Levitz's writing on v2 and v3, I find it pretty much the same throughout, except for the last year-and-a-half (Conspiracy through Magic Wars), where I think there's a steep decline in story quality.
Is that a case of the John Byrne Superman reboot sapping the energy out of the series? or a combination of that & Paul Levitz burning out. In hindsight would it have been better to reboot the Legion at the same time as the Superman reboot?
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
As for Levitz's writing on v2 and v3, I find it pretty much the same throughout, except for the last year-and-a-half (Conspiracy through Magic Wars), where I think there's a steep decline in story quality.
Is that a case of the John Byrne Superman reboot sapping the energy out of the series? or a combination of that & Paul Levitz burning out. In hindsight would it have been better to reboot the Legion at the same time as the Superman reboot? I would have been fine with that.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078 |
I thought Conspiracy was generally held in good regard? Been awhile since I read it.
Anything with Lightle and Larogue was high on my enjoyment list and the run of covers was astounding.
Running with LT's comments, I also can think of a few storylines that on my first read, not such a fan. One he mentions he still doesn't like but I now love would be the Blight storyline and Widening Rifts.
While 5YL was my vote, I believe another dark era as presaged by the destruction of the star gates would have killed the franchise AND cost us Lost, a terrific story.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 397
Active
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Active
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 397 |
As for Levitz's writing on v2 and v3, I find it pretty much the same throughout, except for the last year-and-a-half (Conspiracy through Magic Wars), where I think there's a steep decline in story quality.
Is that a case of the John Byrne Superman reboot sapping the energy out of the series? or a combination of that & Paul Levitz burning out. In hindsight would it have been better to reboot the Legion at the same time as the Superman reboot? I don't know if it was Paul Levitz burning out or Giffen coming on board with such horrible art and the complete redesign of all of the team's costumes that I hated most at the end of that run. Giffen's artwork really made it hard for me to look let alone read Levitz's storytelling. That's one thing I was thankful for in the Retroboot era, all of Giffen's costume designs had been replaced!
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 174
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 174 |
What's even funnier is that Mark Waid still defends the Threeboot, saying it didn't succeed because DC went all-retro just as it was launching.
Uh...no, Mark, it was a bad idea from the get-go. Simple as that.
Disclaimer: I'm generally a Mark Waid fan, but I'm still bitter that he effed up so badly...and that he ended the reboot continuity. I'll second that. And I'll vote for the reboot when I see it on the list above.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
As for Levitz's writing on v2 and v3, I find it pretty much the same throughout, except for the last year-and-a-half (Conspiracy through Magic Wars), where I think there's a steep decline in story quality.
Is that a case of the John Byrne Superman reboot sapping the energy out of the series? or a combination of that & Paul Levitz burning out. In hindsight would it have been better to reboot the Legion at the same time as the Superman reboot? I don't know if it was Paul Levitz burning out or Giffen coming on board with such horrible art and the complete redesign of all of the team's costumes that I hated most at the end of that run. Giffen's artwork really made it hard for me to look let alone read Levitz's storytelling. That's one thing I was thankful for in the Retroboot era, all of Giffen's costume designs had been replaced! I agree with you 100%.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,172
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,172 |
What's even funnier is that Mark Waid still defends the Threeboot, saying it didn't succeed because DC went all-retro just as it was launching.
Uh...no, Mark, it was a bad idea from the get-go. Simple as that.
Disclaimer: I'm generally a Mark Waid fan, but I'm still bitter that he effed up so badly...and that he ended the reboot continuity. I'll second that. And I'll vote for the reboot when I see it on the list above. I will third that. The Threeboot was completely unnecessary, and it turning into a wasted opportunity was just pouring salt on the wounds. As for Levitz's writing on v2 and v3, I find it pretty much the same throughout, except for the last year-and-a-half (Conspiracy through Magic Wars), where I think there's a steep decline in story quality.
Is that a case of the John Byrne Superman reboot sapping the energy out of the series? or a combination of that & Paul Levitz burning out. In hindsight would it have been better to reboot the Legion at the same time as the Superman reboot? I don't know if it was Paul Levitz burning out or Giffen coming on board with such horrible art and the complete redesign of all of the team's costumes that I hated most at the end of that run. Giffen's artwork really made it hard for me to look let alone read Levitz's storytelling. That's one thing I was thankful for in the Retroboot era, all of Giffen's costume designs had been replaced! I agree with you 100%. I agree that the art contributed, and I also felt less satisfied with those last few stories for some reason. There were also a lot of changes happening then, with what felt like the slow disintegration of the team (Shady and Mon, Quislet, Nura, Brainy, Mysa all departing in short order).
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078 |
As for Levitz's writing on v2 and v3, I find it pretty much the same throughout, except for the last year-and-a-half (Conspiracy through Magic Wars), where I think there's a steep decline in story quality.
Is that a case of the John Byrne Superman reboot sapping the energy out of the series? or a combination of that & Paul Levitz burning out. In hindsight would it have been better to reboot the Legion at the same time as the Superman reboot? I don't know if it was Paul Levitz burning out or Giffen coming on board with such horrible art and the complete redesign of all of the team's costumes that I hated most at the end of that run. Giffen's artwork really made it hard for me to look let alone read Levitz's storytelling. That's one thing I was thankful for in the Retroboot era, all of Giffen's costume designs had been replaced! I enjoy the occasional costume change. I don't recall the specific changes in this case but I also don't recall particularly not liking the costumes in that era.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 174
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 174 |
So, thus far, 41% of those polled prefer the 5YL/Reboot Legion?
Apparently, there's nothing like a threeboot and a failed reworking of the original to make people appreciate the reboot series.
Gotta love the irony!
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,487
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,487 |
The early reboot was fantastic, and the middle era wasn't bad either. It didn't start going south until after LSH # 100.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 174
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 174 |
For all of it's critics, that "era" did last a decade; far longer that the Threeboot or the current Levitz run.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364 |
I think the Reboot had more extreme highs and lows than any other period in Legion history. The first two years of the Reboot are almost flawlessly fantastic and I will fight to the death anyone who dares to tell me different. The first two years or so of the DnA era (particularly Lost) are also some of the best Legion stories ever IMO.
But then you have the absolutely abysmal dreck that was a lot if the rest of it, in particular the Team 20 arc in LSH, both books after the Team 20 arc ended (especially the Dark Crap Rising period), and everything DnA wrote after Worlds.
I LOVE the Reboot, but there is a LOT I would have liked to see done differently too.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,172
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,172 |
(Hey all you Postboot fans - check out the Re-Reading the Postboot Legion in my signature please! Would love to get a discussion going!)
I prefer the Reboot to any other volume, but that's partly because it's the Legion I grew up with. I also have to acknowledge that it wasn't perfect. Still, I'd argue it was a lot better than the Threeboot or the latter part of the Retroboot.
The portion after the Team20/30 arc was lackluster, but not flat out terrible. At least you didn't have Legionnaires getting maimed or killed, and there was still some character development.
The portion DNA wrote after Worlds could have been better. There were a lot of dangling threads, poor pacing, and a lot of irreversible transformations (Ferro can't iron down, Naga Sensor, Terrorform Zoe and the monstrosity that was Jarth) but nothing irreversible.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,364 |
I will never understand how two grown adults who actually make a living out of thinking up interesting ideas and turning them into compelling stories could *ever* have come up with a plot point like... <shudder> ... Jarth.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,696
Trap Timer
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OP
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,696 |
For all of it's critics, that "era" did last a decade; far longer that the Threeboot or the current Levitz run. In a way, though it also had to be radically retooled halfway through because sales were in the crapper. If you split it into the DnA era and the pre DnA era, then they have about the same five year lifespan of every other post Crisis incarnation of the Legion.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,172
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,172 |
The pre-DNA era may seem longer to some, because there were two monthly books being published then. I will never understand how two grown adults who actually make a living out of thinking up interesting ideas and turning them into compelling stories could *ever* have come up with a plot point like... <shudder> ... Jarth. Upon receiving every issue after Jarth and Terrorform Zoe showed up, I would turn the pages quickly in the vain hope that their transformations would be reversed
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394
Space Fatigue Survivor
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Space Fatigue Survivor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394 |
My pick is easily Vol 2, then Baxter, the first stories, then vol 6.
Five Year Leap was and still is too destructive and too negative in its stories and depictions of an optimistic future of heroic teens for me to care for. While it did have some points of interest (I enjoyed Mordru's zombies and the Khund Legionnaires) the fact is this series was totally built on the foundation of previous told stories but burned those bridges down as it 'progressed'. This storytelling style can only be short term at best and obligated the reboot that eventually came which is now an addiction the Legion has since been consumed by.
Last edited by Kid Quislet; 09/16/13 02:52 PM.
Celebrating 10+ years of Legion Worldness
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
Gah! Can't choose, because I am...Indecisive Kid!
The Adventure Run gave us the core characters and concepts The Superboy stores kept it all alive in the 70s.
The Levitz run (both 2 & baxter)brought depth, characterisation and subplots to everything.
The 5YG used the concepts of Adventure and built on the shoulders of the Levitz characterisation. But was derailed by fill ins and editorial.
Post Zero-Hour made it all fresh again.
Abnett & Lanning gave the book some edge back.
Waid took it out in a very new direction.
Johns brought the Legion back.
choices, choices...
Ah, but vol 1 is just some of the Adventure run, so that gets me off the hook there.
My favourite moments were in the 5YG. But the best run for me was the Levitz one. Since vol 2 will have some icky pre Levitz things in it, I'll have to plump for vol 3.
that...was...tough...
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,696
Trap Timer
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OP
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,696 |
Voting ends tomorrow, for anyone who was intentionally waiting for the last minute or something.
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
A solid % of 5YG love, which is nice to see... even if that's not the one I went with.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Favorite Volume of the Legion of Super Heroes!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,696
Trap Timer
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OP
Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,696 |
I actually thought there might be one or two for the threeboot.
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