Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes LSH #23 Preview and Review [SPOILERS!]

Playing devil's advocate for a sec....I wonder if the Earth 2 revelation was Paul Levitz's concession to fans who have complained about this iteration of the Legion pretty much since he started writing again? He seems like a reasonable man from interviews I've read and he definitely doesn't come across as one of those ego-driven writers who buys into their own hype. Even if he genuinely did the best job he could over these past few years, he can't be blind to the fact that lots of his retcons and additions were badly received by long-time fans. I think he knows how passionate the LSH's fan base are about these characters so I wonder if this might have been his way of saying "look guys, I really didn't screw up YOUR Legion at all and in fact they're probably living happily out there just waiting for the right creative team or time to come back!"

It's tempting to blame DC for it as a method of clearing the way for JL3K or whatever it's called (and it may still actually be the case!) but I also honestly wouldn't be surprised if they let Paul throw it in there just because anyone higher up wouldn't really care one way or the other....I'm sure if he hadn't done something to give the JL dudes a clean slate the Legion just would never have been mentioned again anyway, at least this way we have somewhere to fit them in the multiverse; unlike all those poor fans of Stephanie Brown, Wally West and his family, Donna Troy, Black Alice, Misfit, Gail Simone's Secret Six and so on who just one day never existed JUST CUZ.....food for thought anyway!

Oh, and I can't remember who it was that pointed out the Earth 2 reference was wrong anyway....all that says to me though is that maybe it's a different Earth altogether, one we hadn't seen before now (and to be honest I'd be really really happy to not have a xenophobic Earth associated with "my" Legion....to me that was one of the most damaging changes, and it's one that Levitz kinda just got lumped with)

I'd be interested to see what peeps think of that idea?

Not quite. They did it to make JL3K the official future of the DCFU. The actual DC Universe (which was in reality a multiverse) ceased to exist with the publication of Crisis On Infinite Earths in 1985.

I think I pretty much agree with everything razsolo just posted.

I'm not sure about the "Earth 2" thing in particular, but I definitely think the whole line "And somewhere, there are other universes where it's all probably happened very differently" was meant to accomplish exactly what you say, by basically pointing out that's there room for purer Earth 1 style Legions out there in the multiverse somewhere, as well as whatever other incarnations people like. That's why that was easily my favorite bit in the issue!

That's pretty much how I feel. The farther away we get from Crisis on Infinite Earths, and the more DC jumps through hooks to resurrect everyone killed in the Crisis (Supergirl? Back. Barry Allen? Back. The Crime Syndicate? Back.), and the more DC fought to undo it (Hypertime! The Multiverse is back! Fifteeee-tooo!) the more I feel like it was a gorgeously-drawn terrible idea.

I disagree that it was a terrible idea. I think it was a great idea destroyed by people who put their own agendas ahead of maintaining consistent continuity. Putting the JSA and the JLA and the Marvel family in the same universe, IMHO, produced a much richer DCU than the Pre-Crisis situation ever was. And it really did leave most of pre-Crisis continuity intact, altered only slightly.

But once they started screwing around with the blueprint provided by the "History of the DCU" two-part prestige series and the "Secret Origins" series, that started the mess rolling. "Get rid of Superboy from the Legion", "Oops, put that back in, because the new Supergirl's origin is based on it.", "Destroy the Green Lantern Corps.", "Re-create the Green Lantern Corps.", "Re-introduce Hawkman, who we've already seen in JLI", "Bring back the original Doom Patrol", "Legion not selling? Scrap the character histories and have Waid re-invent the whole concept.", "Bring back the original Supergirl."

The integrated DCU is the platform for most of my favorite stories. James Robinson's Starman series. Geoff Johns' JSA (Mordru, Eclipso and Kobra fighting the JSA, in a story that seamlessly included Dove of Hawk & Dove and Arion of Atlantis, and all prior incarnations of Doctor Fate? Brilliant stuff that could not have happened in the pre-Crisis split multiverse.) The Books of Magic. 52 (Elongated Man, the Question, Black Adam, and that host of mad sceintists all in a single, character-driven story? Awesomeness.)

The Crisis on Infinite Earths was possibly the best thing to ever happen to DC. It's the wild editorial fiats that followed that screwed things up, and the New 52 is the biggest one of those ever.

Sure, everyone thinks it's stupid that the Legion never met the Fatal Five, but the retcons and additions aren't the *biggest* complaints about the series, the biggest complaint is bleh writing.

At the very least, Paul gave us some hope that our beloved Legions are still out there.

Yes, and writers have done the same with other Legions.

* The Time Trapper promised the Adult 5YL Legion and Batch SW6 Legionnaires that he would keep them in a "safe place" as their universe ended

* The Reboot Legion escaped the destruction of their universe, and when last seen where "Wanderers"

* The Threeboot Legion was safely ensconced on the old 'Earth-Prime'

Happens a lot to the Legion.

The only other DC characters I can remember that were "preserved" in this way were the original Earth-2 Superman, Lois Lane, and the original Superboy-Prime at the end of "Crisis on Infinite Earths. (Of course that didn't work out well. The Earth-2 Superman has already died twice.)

And Ariella Kent. Peter David had the Spectre promise, speaking for 'God' Himself, that Ariella Kent would always exist somewhere, no matter how much the Universe might change. (Even if it is in the 853rd century.)

My brain hurts just from reading this thread. How anybody can keep all these continuities straight is beyond me.

And we all know what happened to the others... Even though Superboy-Prime was (I think) still alive as of Flashpoint, his character assassination was a fate worse than death.

[snip]



No kidding. It also drove me nuts in the JLA/JLU stories that he was always some kind of ultimate moral beacon for all humanity, to the point where he was some resistance leader in one of the quasi-fascist future scenarios. Uh, no. I'd think that Batman, with his overcontrolling personality and constant assertion that he knows what's best for everyone, would have been first in line to crush anti-fascists, not lead them to victory.

In what way is the Earth-2 reference wrong? That definitely is one for the continuity list.

TOTALLY agree Jim!! Rather than creating all of these convoluted scenarios why not just say... here are some new Legion stories... continuity may or may not apply... the result is the same in any case.

and this is a fan base that might enjoy that. I certainly enjoyed many of the longer plot threads started by Levitz but I was much happier with the onsey-twosies of the ADV-Action-Superboy era than with the last two boots. I think I'd rather have an occasional two issue story-line to ignore than years' worth.

Does DCFU=DC Fucked Universe?

What Ken said. With the amount of editorial interference @ DC I really don't think that they'd let Paul predict that the New Earth Superman will also be killed by a villain named Steppenwolf. It's also not a stretch to say that the line about Steppenwolf sending Superman to his doom was not written by Paul Levitz.

Finally got it. Sad ending. Not like 50 of the last run, which was sad because it was such shit, but sad because in many ways it was the end of the "real" legion to many of us old timers. And like someone else said... whimper, not bang.

I think it stands for "DC Fifty-Two Universe". But since "FU" is more commonly associated with the phrase "F**k you" (which seems to be Didio, Harras and the rest of editorial's attitude to the fans) the acronym is perfect IMO.

Early in the issue, we see Bouncing Boy bringing in Superman's "speared" shirt from the remains of the Trophy Room. Later we find out that their Superman was "sent to his doom" by Steppenwolf.

In Earth 2 #1, however, it is actually Wonder Woman who is speared by Steppenwolf. Superman is killed in some sort of explosion by the Parademons.

So, if these references were meant to establish this Legion as being from Earth 2, they seem to be incorrect, though, as someone else pointed out, they could mean this Legion is from a world very similar to Earth 2 in which is was Supes who was stabbed.

I bought and read it yesterday. It wasn't the perfect end, but it was, I think, the best they could do under the circumstances.

Having said that, the Legion will be back. I'm sure of it.

In the absence of knowing who else might have been involved in plotting or writing dialogue for the last issue, we really have no one other than Levitz to blame directly.

As to the error...

Since Steppenwolf has only appeared in the Earth-2 stories in the New 52 continuity (if that word even means anything to DC anymore), and since the only parallel reality acknowledged to exist in the New 52 stories so far is Earth-2, it's not much of a stretch to assume that the reference to Steppenwolf is meant to imply that the Legion from this series is from Earth-2's 31st century. And that means that Levitz (or whoever else wrote that Bouncing Boy line) didn't bother to fact-check James Robinson's Earth-2 stories, where it's Wonder Woman who dies at Steppenwolf's hand in Earth 2 #1, not Superman. Given the apparent lack of caring for continuity being demonstrated by DC these days, I suppose that's hardly surprising.

If it's not an error, then we're left with two possibilities.

First, this Legion is indeed from New Earth's future, and at some point between the present day and the 31st Century, a New Earth character named Steppenwolf will kill Kal-El. As indicated, I doubt DC editorial would allow Levitz (or anyone) to make such a significant plot prediction, especially as what really amounts to a throwaway line.

Second, this Legion is from an as-yet-unnamed/unnumbered continuity beyond New Earth and Earth-2 -- one that, in all likelihood, will never be referenced again. If that's the case, it magnifies the irrelevance of this series even further, creates even more continuity headaches with the Legion Lost characters in New Earth's present day (if they're ever referenced again, of course), and serves as more of an insult to the history and legacy of what was once considered one of DC's premier superhero teams, and one of the first team books in all of comics history. The Legion stories were once considered the definitive future of the DC Universe, and following reboot after reboot, successes and failures, they may now have been relegated to an irrelevant side timeline no writer ever mentions again. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

At least with an Earth-2 Legion, we know they're connected to an established parallel universe in this post-Flashpoint continuity (even if it's not the one we'd all assumed), and that leaves the door open for someone to either pick up the threads of this story and tell tales of what happens to these characters next, or to possibly tell tales of a New Earth Legion at some point. I'm not crossing my fingers on either of those happening, though.

In the end, Earth-2 or not, the ending to this series is bittersweet. On one hand, it means this poorly-written version of our favorite team of heroes can't continue to get any worse -- and that's a good thing. On the other hand, there's no indication that we'll ever see another LSH story published in the future. And that saddens me.

RIP Legion of Super-Heroes (1958-2013?)
"The Legion is dead. Long live the Legion!"

I disagree. I am convinced based on the (de)construction of the writing in some of this latest Legion version versus past history of previous stories by Mr. Levitz that he has been jerked around these last few years by DC's publishers and editorial edicts. The erratic storytelling is due to consistent intrusions and demands causing rewrites by Levitz to his carefully measured sub-plotting (his forte), which was never allowed to mature and print the way he had originally conceived them. Examples of this are the Earth Man inheritance, the Green Lantern intrusion, and the ridiculous retro-reboot of the Fatal Five (as never being together before? Why?). The Legion Academy stories and the Secret Origin 6-parter were good reading because of excellent art along with non-interference in the story (just compare Phantom Girl in the Secret Origin story to the Fatal Five drek!).

Mr. Levitz is too much of a team player on DC to complain or point fingers on why the Legion results were poor. To the contrary, he was genuinely concerned with providing Legion fans hope the Legion was still alive in this final issue and could relaunch at a future time, while clearing the way for and promoting the upcoming JL3000 series. I think Mr. Levitz has treated DC better than it has treated him.

The only flaw in this theory is that the New Gods do not exist in the Multiverse. That is the in-universe explanation of why the majority of New Gods stories remained canon after Crisis of Infinite Earths. It is also used to explain how they are able to appear on any Earth they want in the NuDCU: they exist in a different dimension outside of the Multiverse.

THAT is the big problem. If you follow a series, you have to have some continuity or regular readers are going to lose interest. Penguin #1 and Cheetah #1 may outsell this latest Legion, but how many times can DC keep going to the Issue #1 well and still retain any kind of consistent client base?

DC's ADD publishers don't seem to get it...