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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783503 08/14/13 10:17 PM
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On the whole, this two-parter was pretty good storytelling! It's obviously significant for the characters and alien race introduced and for being Shooter's first story, but it's hard to find any gaping flaws as some of the Hamilton and Siegel stories had.

I'd say that maybe the story isn't all that compelling, I suppose. For the most part it's fairly by the numbers. I'd certainly, for example, have rather Nemesis Kid's reveal hadn't been done so casually and unimaginatively. Plus, it would have been nicer for Projectra and Ferro Lad to have been more integral to the story (though both had a good scene or two). And the defense towers were kind of...juvenile? Well, considering Shooter was a juvenile at the time, I can let him slide. Certainly, sillier things had been come up with for the title by writers much more his senior, right? smile

But it was a sound story with plenty of action and more characterization than the average Legion story had contained to this point. Best of all, Shooter immediately added to Legion lore and would add sooooo much more before he was finished!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783552 08/15/13 07:44 PM
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Adv. 347

I find myself agreeing with Lardy’s description of this two-parter as “by the numbers.” Part two, like part one, contains solid storytelling and exciting moments, but the “grand ideas” of Hamilton or even Siegel are absent. Instead, Shooter clearly reveals his Marvel influence by playing up drama for drama’s sake, even if characters occasionally look stupid in the process (such as the missile men firing upon Superboy without identifying him first). Why do the Legionnaires need flying platforms to engage the enemy? Clearly not all of their flight rings were damaged. Earlier in the story, the Legionnaires burst into a room and apologize because they didn’t have “time to unfasten the locks!” C’mon, Jim. It just looks dramatic to have the heroes crash through a door.

Yet I generally didn't mind such blunders because I found myself getting so caught up in the Legionnaires’ interactions and the action. The suspicion on Karate Kid is magnified when he flies apart from the other Legionnaires. Cosmic Boy expresses impatience with Superboy’s delay in arriving at the Ceylon tower (a nice reversal of Superboy scolding Cos for being late last issue). The Legionnaires kick ass in battle. Then they kick ass again, though there’s some repetition with Cham and Light Lass doing the same tricks twice. (Cham even calls attention to his repeat performance.)

Best of all, the new kids get to shine. Projectra’s spotlight is brief, but Ferro Lad and Karate Kid both charge into action and use humor to win the hearts of readers. (Ferro Lad: “I wonder what happens if this doesn’t work?” Karate Kid: “If I miss, I promise never to do this again!”) And KK, once suspected of being a traitor, saves the day by capturing Garlak.

All in all, a satisfying finale. I don’t mind the silliness of Nemesis Kid revealing himself as a traitor. I’m used to stories of crooks doing stupid things. Besides, Shooter plays fair with the reader: Nemesis Kid, like KK, is absent from the group shot of the Legionnaires at the bottom of Page 10, and, if readers notice it, fine. If they (like the Legionnaires) don’t, so much the better. Shooter even works in a valuable lesson about not letting prejudice blind oneself to reality.

My biggest complaint is that the ending is rushed with Nemesis Kid disappearing and Superboy (or whoever’s speaking) conveniently guessing what must have happened. I would rather have been shown instead of told what was happening.

Though a more experienced writer might not have gotten away with a “by the numbers” approach, Shooter makes up for it by treating the Legionnaires as real kids and keeping the story moving with healthy doses of action and mystery—an impressive achievement whatever his age. It’s no surprise that 347 ends up with the same grade as 346: 90.3 (A-).


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783554 08/15/13 08:26 PM
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Something else else about you mentioning that ending with Nemesis Kid reminded me of a thought that recurred in my mind throughout this 2-parter: the vagueness of Nemesis Kid's powers! I can't say that I've ever really understood them and how alchemy would have explained them, but what little we see of it here isn't illuminating.

He uses his powers over the two issues exactly 3 times: to create a lead wall to protect himself from a nuclear blast, to transform himself into "neutronium" in order to sap the robot's power system and to teleport spontaneously when faced with multiple foes.

The first two seem like he basically has the same powers (or some permutation) as Element Lad. That's a kind of alchemy. And I suppose you can explain his teleportation with alchemy as well. But later appearances would show him adapting to fighting styles and some such. And then there's the later Duo Damsel incident in the LSV story--why didn't he just teleport again? confused

I dunno, I guess it just goes to show again how vague power sets can be written inconsistently and confusingly. To me, NK's powers are potentially so fascinating, that it's kind of a shame that we never saw them explored the way they could have been had one of the others turned out to be the traitor instead. (Though I'd be hard-pressed to choose which one, taking into account the different kinds of immortality in Legion lore all three achieved.) I guess that's one thing I liked about him being used in the animated series and possibly never being made a traitor had the series continued.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783555 08/15/13 08:38 PM
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It could be that Nemesis Kid used some kind of device to teleport. Whoever's speaking might have been wrong in guessing he had the power.

But you're right: the ability to defeat any opponent is hopelessly vague. It makes me wonder if Shooter didn't bother to create a more specific power because he knew NK was going to be the bad guy. Also, the ability to defeat any single opponent would sound pretty cool to a 13-year-old.

In a way, this power makes Nemesis Kid similar to Duplicate Boy, who can also do anything the story requires him to do. Perhaps that's why we saw very little of either.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783556 08/15/13 08:48 PM
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Interestingly, in the animated series, he was depicted as simply having the power to nullify the powers of his opponent. Though irrelevant to a discussion of the original version's powers, it does show that the producer's wanted a more specific power in their version.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783570 08/16/13 03:32 AM
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I think Nemesis Kid would be slightly more difficult to use than Duplicate Boy in a story. Dupe has control over what powers he copies, so writing him as a dumb and uncreative guy or having him be taken by surprise can allow you to tone down his power. Nemesis Kid, on the other hand, has vague and unpredictable powers that he has no control over. Using him properly would require the crafting of a very specific set of "rules" for how his powers work.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783572 08/16/13 04:15 AM
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Nemesis Kid's vague power set makes him "too powerful for a hero" -- which also would have been true of Duplicate Boy, had he not had the significant weakness that he was dumb as a rock.

(Heroes need to face and overcome significant challenges in a story, otherwise there is no story. Villains merely need to create those challenges. That is why it is humorous to think of Young Darkseid as a Legionnaire. (or Young Mordru or Young Time Trapper))


Next time we have a DC/Marvel crossover, I want it to take place in the Hostessverse
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783575 08/16/13 05:24 AM
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Adventure #348

Jim Shooter continues to bring more changes to the Legion with his second story , and this heightens the impact he's already made over the last two issues. Here he begins the incredibly strong effort to build a true rogues gallery for the Legion, to mirror Supes, Bats, Flash and DC's competitors at the House of Ideas. Dr. Regulus is the result and IMO he's a very strong effort: powerful, intelligent, a direct hate / problem with a specific Legionnaire, and most of all, he has all the melodrama, personality and action-oriented nature that the great villains of the Silver Age had.

This issue also marks the start of Invisible Kid as Legion leader. Mort / Bridwell hinted at this in the Lettercol a few issues earlier, that a lesser seen Legionnaire would get the big role. I'm curious as to whose idea it actually is. Regardless, it marks the real high point in the preboot existence of Lyle Norg, culminating in a few issues when he socks Jo in the kisser. He ends up coming across as one the strongest and greatest leaders in the Legion's history. His being such a less obvious choice as leader further help differentiate Shooter's run from what's come before.

One other tidbit introduced by Shooter is Luornu's crush on Superboy. I admit I had long forgotten or never realized this came so late in Legion history! Readers had been asking for a long time about why Luornu didn't have a boy she liked when all the other girls did. Here, Shooter makes an interesting choice by making it tragic and unlikely; there's no easy out on this one, only heartbreak. For a 14 year old kid that is quite a mature decision; yet, who other than an actual teenager is all too aware that so many crushes / romantic wishes go unfulfilled and unreturned?

This issue stands out as George Papp, longtime Superboy artist, gets a turn doing the Legion (though apparently over rough Shooter layouts). I'm a big fan of Papp's work, and enjoy it actually more than Swan. I think he really does a terrific job here, and I love the slightly more cartoonish depiction of the Legionnaires. He also draws Sun Boy and Duo Damsel with hairstyles that seem more fun and modern for the mid-60's which I like.

The story itself, by its title, is obviously inspired by Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None", which in turn was inspired by the poem "10 Little Indians". I've read Christie's work and its quite brilliant. I highly recommend it to anyone who likes clever writing. It was such a phenomenal hit that its inspired numerous adaptions for books, comics, movies, tv shows, etc. Its become a regular recurring plot structure formula.

The opening of the story shows the election process, and while we don't know who voted for who, it's a nice touch that Luornu votes for her crush, while Tinya votes for Lyle--as one can use later knowledge to infer she voted for her frequent espionage squad colleague.

From an election to a charity event, I like seeing the Legion doing things other than fighting bad guys. Great to get both in one issue.

The sequences with an amnesiac Dirk on the run really highlight some of Papp's strengths. He was always great at making you believe "a good kid was in a tough spot" just by his line work alone.

The second half of the story does a great job showcasing action and building tension. The pacing is spot on.

The very end gives us a resolution, followed by an explanation of what we didn't know. By now this was the classic formula used by all writers in the Superman family, and Shooter adopts it. However, that won't last and I'm glad, as this formula is outdated and stagnant by now. It's really not even necessary if its only going to be stuck at the end. As the Legion changes, and comics do in general, seeing things like this refined will be enjoyable.

There's not much in plot going on in this issue that causes any one character to undergo a great change or experience. But I do like that there is a balance between the whole team, and on main character, Sun Boy.

Shooter continues to use Sun Boy often early in his run. I suspect he was influenced by the earlier prolific period for Sun Boy. Dirk is used very well here. He's probably emerged as my favorite Legionnaire who wasn't already a favorite before.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783591 08/16/13 02:32 PM
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ADV 348

Things Learned: keep with you at ALL times the following items.
- broken piece of china for uncovering precious stones.
- nuclear reactor, great for healing amnesia.
- martini glass for gloating. hmmmmmm
- sword for stabbing desk items when angry.

Art: this stuff is just BRILLIANT
- the fight between Colossal Boy and the "giant" robot would have looked like two regular guys fighting, if not for that little teeny couch that Regulus JUST HAPPENED to put in that room.
- When Regulus is in his spaceship, he's not depicted posing for effect. He's doing stuff. Drinking, stabbing, measuring.
- The scene at the missing HQ site and the scene on Regulus' monitor are perfectly consistent.


Questions
- Did we ever hear again of poor Zarl Hedricks?
- What's with the down arrow on Regulus' helmet? That mean anything?
- Why would Vi consider the name "Regulus" creepy?
- Lois Lane dated Alfred E Neuman?
- I wonder if the guy who suggested the hero name "Blockade Boy" or the guy in this issue who said it was his favorite of the killed characters, is that "other" Blockade Boy that was mentioned as having a web-site?


Observations
- My first thread post on "metacogitating," I wondered if these books wouldn't be just too dated for me to enjoy. Hasn't happened but this one probably would have fit the bill except I find myself devolving when I read, like I'm a little kid reading this with all the wonder I had then. Bizarre.
- From my childhood reading I really only recalled the charity event and the fight between Colossal Boy and the giant robot.
- BOOM!, Ba-Rooom!!, WHAM!, R.Rip! I love this shit!
- I could spend all day looking at the ads and solicits.
- As I've gone through the recent re-reads, I've noticed a couple of the solicits for "Our Fighting Forces," were already about the "Vietnam" War and were also timely, reflecting the news coming back to us. It would seem at one time that the country was quite on board with that war and then perhaps later turned their backs and tried to forget, forgetting that there were real people coming back to us from there. History is interesting.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783602 08/16/13 07:39 PM
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I remember 348 as one of the earlier Legion reprints I read in one of those great digests that supplemented my discovery of the Levitz/Giffen Legion. If I'm not mistaken, this story may have even been reprinted to accompany the appearance of Regulus in LSH #286.*** In any case I read those two stories in very close proximity to one another, so Sun Boy, Regulus and their rivalry really made quite an early impression on me!

Here's the digest I owned that reprinted the story (also featuring the Inferior Five! grin ), btw:

[Linked Image]


As I began reading, the "Ten Little Indians" bit came back to me and gave me a smile. I chuckled later at Regulus holding a wine glass on-panel, something I hadn't remembered. (How the hell was he supposed to drink it with his helmet on, anyway?!?!) Somehow, I think teenaged Shooter must have thought that having an adult appear with a wine glass must have made him look more sinister! lol

Anyhow, there were things remembered and mis-remembered, but it was nice to connect with my own early Legion fandom and fascination with Sun Buy and Regulus. The story holds up pretty well, even with some leaps, like the buildings Regulus removed holding together and Dirk just happening to wonder into a nuclear plant. (And shouldn't the building have plummeted, if not the whole ship, when everything went dark?)

I also remember this was the first memorable appearance of Lyle Norg I had ever read. Having come aboard in the 280s, Lyle was already long dead. I was starting to realize the depth of the Legion's history, who had already had several members die over the years. So around the same time I was meeting Jacques, the new Invisible Kid, I was learning that the old Invisible Kid had died, and I got to read a story in which he was actually elected leader! That impressed me and stoked my interest in the Legion that much more. I was genuinely interested in Lyle, Ferro Lad, Chemical King and somewhat in Duo Damsel who had lost one of her bodies over the years. So in a way, you can say this story was one of the big pieces that helped me become a lifelong Legion fan.

Good job, Shooter....and GREAT job, '80s DC, for publishing so many great early Legion stories over several digests with just PERFECT timing for this 11-12 year old comics fan!

***A subsequent search shows 286 and the digest were published three months apart.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783614 08/16/13 08:32 PM
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Adv. 348

A personal reflection: This was one of the first Legion comics I bought after I discovered such a thing as a comic book shop existed in Kansas City, sixty miles from where I lived. Until then, I didn’t know there was a regular place to buy back issues. I had to have this one because I’d seen the cover in the Legion Handbook. It is a very dramatic cover, with poor Invisible Kid being fried and Dr. Regulus sticking pins in Legion dolls. And, oh yes, that title: “Target—21 Legionnaires.” Short and to the point. (Yet misleading since only eight Legionnaires appear in the story.)

For many years this was one of my favorite Legion stories because it focused on two of my favorite Legionnaires, Sun Boy and Invisible Kid. It also introduces Dr. Regulus, who looks awesome in that arrowed helmet and is so audacious he steals the Legion’s clubhouse!

Yet even then I felt the story was a bit off somehow, that if fell short of my lofty expectations.

Before I get to those shortcomings, let’s talk about the story’s considerable strengths. If a reader knew nothing about the Legion, “Target” provides a good introduction by showing Superboy fly into the future to attend a Legion meeting. Then we get a sweet scene revealing Duo Damsel’s crush on Superboy, and the leadership election gets underway. Invisible Kid, the winner, acts decisively throughout the rest of the story (the most hands-on leader we’ve seen yet). The Legionnaires show off their powers during a charity event. All of this gives the reader a clear sense of who these characters are and why we should care about them.

Then what story analysts call the inciting incident happens. The Legion clubhouse is stolen and, in the process, Sun Boy gets amnesia and flies off. Showing how decisive he can be, Invisible Kid turns the search for his missing teammate over to the Science Police while the rest of the Legionnaires investigate their missing clubhouse. We have an interlude where we meet the villain, Dr. Regulus, who is so maniacal he stabs a globe with a sword (!) and drinks martinis (the drink of villains and globe-trotting Legion Worlders). Meanwhile, Sun Boy wanders into a nuclear power plant and falls asleep in front of an atomic reactor. So far, the build up is good.

But once the Legionnaires track down Dr. Regulus and enter his ship, things go awry. The concept here is good, but it relies too heavily on coincidence to be wholly believable. What if, for example, Colossal Boy had picked a different room to investigate other than the giant-sized one with a giant robot waiting for him? What if Cosmic Boy hadn’t leaned against that particular wall—or any wall? What if Sun Boy had picked some other place to take a nap—a place without atomic radiation to restore his memories?

In short, the story works because the Legionnaires do exactly what the plot requires them to do. Cobie mentioned that none of the characters grow in this story. An even worse problem is that the story doesn’t spring from the characters and their actions and reactions. Instead, the characters are manipulated puppet-like through the plot.

It’s a damn good thing, for example, that Sun Boy arrived when he did, that Cosmic Boy was able to save Dirk just in time, and that Sun Boy melted the master control panel yet missed Regulus when the latter got away. And it's fortunate for the Legionnaires that Regulus had timed his ship's self-destruct mechanism to go off after they were well clear of it.

This is where I feel Shooter could have used some adult guidance from Mort or Bridwell, who should have checked for some level of plausibility in all this. But Mort doesn’t seem to have been too concerned with logic in any of these stories.

“Target—21 Legionnaires” remains an exciting story, but only if one suspends a lot of disbelief. Grade: 82.3 (B-).


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
He Who Wanders #783616 08/16/13 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders


But once the Legionnaires track down Dr. Regulus and enter his ship, things go awry. The concept here is good, but it relies too heavily on coincidence to be wholly believable. What if, for example, Colossal Boy had picked a different room to investigate other than the giant-sized one with a giant robot waiting for him? What if Cosmic Boy hadn’t leaned against that particular wall—or any wall? What if Sun Boy had picked some other place to take a nap—a place without atomic radiation to restore his memories?


And don't forget how Dr. Regulus somehow anticipated that Sun Boy would get knocked out and have amnesia as a result of the quake caused by his theft of Legion HQ! lol

I think I give the fallacies in this story a pass because of my fondness for this particular story as referenced above. The title also is illogical given the number of Legionnaires involved, as you state.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783618 08/16/13 09:01 PM
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Dr. Regulus indicates he had caused Dirk's amnesia. How he accomplished this is not revealed. Perhaps he borrowed the Luck Lords' super-hypnotic long-range ray.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783660 08/17/13 06:36 AM
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When Cosmic Boy got caught in HIS trap, I remember thinking - boy, it sure was lucky of Regulus that Cos decided to stand in that exact place at that time!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783915 08/19/13 06:20 AM
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Adventure #349

Jim Shooter's creative explosion continues with Universo, yet another classic Legion villain. Once again, Shooter has found the right mix to create a villain that will recur over time, and also stand out as unique among the Legion's enemies and villains in general.

He also introduces Rond Vidar, whom I've always loved as a character. Most of that love comes from later developments--specifically his great friendship with Brainy--but the idea of "a regular person doing the right thing when it's difficult" is here. His next appearance will present--in addition to his actual name--the idea of another "ordinary" person getting honorary Legion membership, which I've always liked.

This story has a unique line-up that stars both Colossal Boy, Cham and Shrinking Violet in addition to regular stars Imra, Brainy and Superboy.

Universo certainly has a unique way of entering the story! I kind of like his plans not going as he planned and his having to make up the whole "joining bit" on the fly. It makes him seem a little bumbling but its certainly interesting. Even his super-hypnosis is overcome by Brainy early on. This is certainly against the grain of the usual 'villain overpowers Legion, then they overcome him through courage and ingenuity' plotting.

The whole middle of the story involves time traveling to various locales which I don't mind at all! We haven't seen the Legion time travel this much since very early Adventure, and I've come to enjoy that aspect of the series, which was really lost after the Silver Age.

The Incan Empire is a woefully underused setting in comics.

Vi attacked by a falcon--a classic Atom bit used for her!

Gim is confronted with a common, albeit classic, conundrum of being able to escape but in doing so endangering countless lives.

Imra's problem is more amusing, though not really worthy of her awesomeness. Imra in a maid outfit with Napoleon could certainly be its own story, though!

And Brainy has a pretty cool adventure with Kublai Khan and a mechanical dragon! This is probably the best sequence of the issue.

The wrap up showcases Rond though we don't ever get his actual name! I've always found that odd, and chalked it up to a young writer.

All in all, a fun little story. Not the most happening, but an enjoyable read.

Bonus Lettercol Review: Mort / Nelson formally introduces young 14 year old Jim Shooter, and mentions that much like Rond Vidar, he was a science fair winner. Hm. I suspect Vidar may be a Shooter Mary-Sue in this story.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783927 08/19/13 08:14 AM
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I like that each of the Legionnaires were able to show their ingenuity and grace under fire despite being in deadly peril. Brainy, for instance, getting his belt activated by a punch.

I suppose Violet's ability to shrink down to microscopic size still isn't evident by now. Her limit here seems to be a few inches tall only. Certainly limits her versatility.


Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783948 08/19/13 05:26 PM
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I liked this issue a lot BUT (everybody I know has a big but) i found it a little (okay a lot) repetitious that EACH Legionnaire evaded one deadly peril only to land smack dab in the middle of another one (out of the frying pan . . . ). Also found it annoying that Superboy even had to be included, just so he could be written out with a very looonnnggg bit of exposition from Vi. At least the art was great, EXCEPT for on the last page when Cham is shown removing a mask and costume to reveal his disguise! Hello? His power is "super-disguise"! He don't need no stinkin' mask, Curt Swan! I do like the intro of Rond Vidar though, even if they did forget to give him a name. Also, the Legion has apparently adopted his time cube (and hopefully worked out the bugs) by the very next issue, which also features Vi becoming microscopic (for the very first time?)!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #783950 08/19/13 05:41 PM
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More thoughts: I suppose since we're dealing with time travel, Rond could've spent the next month working out the bugs of his time machine and still arrived just in the nick of TIME to save the heroes, but why would he wait until their lives were each endangered a SECOND time to come to the rescue? Did he not think each of their first predicaments were dire enough? Was he testing them (shades of the Timetrapper)? Did he have to run to the space potty at inopportune times?


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #784023 08/20/13 08:35 AM
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Re-reading this story (for the umpteenth time), I'm not sure what I find so captivating about it, but it's one of my favourites.

A new machine for time travel, the Legionnaires going to different periods besides Superboy's time, evidence that they're not the only amazing teens in the 30th century, Superboy mostly out of the story (although as pointed out, why have him there at all?), some attention on Cham, Vi and Gim and Universo. What a great villain!

I thought Dr. Regulus was sort of boring with his helmet and insane, revenge-driven plan. Universo seems so much more devious; he's developed a complicated plot to ensnare the Legionnaires. He also looks unusual, compared to previous Legion adversaries: the monocle, goatee, bald head, medallion and he's barefoot.

What clinches the story for me, however, is the surprise ending. I don't think there are any clues in the story, so it would have been a big reveal. Unnamed Vidar kid, betraying his father but obviously feeling awful about it. Dad just went too far this time.

At the end, I just wonder where young Vidar goes from here. Is there a Mom or relative somewhere? Is he old enough to be on his own, by 30th century standards? He looks so forlorn, sitting there alone. It has quite an impact. I like to think that some of the Legionnaires sought him out and helped him, maybe with the assistance of R.J. Brande (who doesn't exist yet).





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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #784061 08/20/13 05:37 PM
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ADV 349

Twizzlers, Milk, Tigers on WJR: yep, yep, yep time to read.

Before opening this I couldn't have told you a bit about what was going to happened. Wow, I remembered almost ALL of these panels.

I wish today's books were laid out like this, with some random one page comic in the middle and ads for toys you just have to have.

Batman movie! Space Ghost, The Impossibles, hell yeah! I got to get to Egypt and I can complete the set.

I've noticed that different issues have "aged" differently, different smells. This one, is a Dom Perignon.


Time machine? No way, I'm putting my money into that digital computer thingy.

Colossal Boy: just STEP AROUND IT!!!

This is up there with "Luke I am your father." How is this not DC legend? And unless I missed it (again and again) they never even gave Rond a name? When did he get a name?[b][/b]

I REALLY enjoyed this. No wonder I became such a fan.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
jimgallagher #784062 08/20/13 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jimgallagher
More thoughts: I suppose since we're dealing with time travel, Rond could've spent the next month working out the bugs of his time machine and still arrived just in the nick of TIME to save the heroes, but why would he wait until their lives were each endangered a SECOND time to come to the rescue? Did he not think each of their first predicaments were dire enough? Was he testing them (shades of the Timetrapper)? Did he have to run to the space potty at inopportune times?
I've seen some amazing (to me) scientists that had absolutely no clue about logistics. It's hard to know what experience Shooter had at 14, to bring to his stories but re-reading this, it is amazing to me.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer

At the end, I just wonder where young Vidar goes from here. Is there a Mom or relative somewhere? Is he old enough to be on his own, by 30th century standards? He looks so forlorn, sitting there alone. It has quite an impact. I like to think that some of the Legionnaires sought him out and helped him, maybe with the assistance of R.J. Brande (who doesn't exist yet).



There's a great filler story in there. There must be something about the business, that they do not try to go back to old runs (you know, when there were like half a billion readers), write missing stories, put an ad on the game of the week and watch the old fans come running.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #784076 08/20/13 09:13 PM
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Curt Swan draws really GREAT feet! (Too bad Rob Liefeld didn't learn from him... wink )


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #784079 08/20/13 09:21 PM
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And damn! We've polished off yet another Archive! Fewer stories this go-round, but the one's we're getting are longer.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
Lard Lad #784632 08/23/13 10:44 PM
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Adv. 349

One distinct advantage of the Legion having a teenaged writer is that Shooter incorporated subjects he must have been studying in school. In this issue, for example, we’re treated to an extended history lecture that involves Kublai Khan, Napoleon, warring Britons (who look more like they belong in the Crusades some five hundred years later), and ancient Egypt. Kudos to Jim and Mort for trying in a subtle way to educate their readers. Stories such as this probably “legitimized” boring school subjects for kids as later stories did for me.

However, “The Rogue Legionnaire” suffers from the same problems that have dogged Shooter’s other stories so far. He simply lacks the maturity as a writer and as a human being to pull off the grandiose ideas he so easily generates.

First, the title of the story is misleading since Universo doesn’t actually join the Legion. His attempt to brainwash the Legion into admitting him is a clever bit of off-the-cuff thinking on his part, but nothing comes of it. Rather, the title, like Superboy’s presence on the cover and in the early part of the story, is meant to entice the reader by promising things the story doesn’t deliver. Jim, it seems, has been learning the wrong lessons from Mort.

Second, as others have pointed out, the episodes in the past follow a particular pattern that gets old very quickly. Some of the historical adventures are fun (Cham’s impersonation of the Inca being one); however, like last issue, they rely on characters doing things that are just a little too hard to accept in order to further the plot. Brainy’s lucky, for example, that the Chinese guard punched him in the belt instead of breaking his ribs. And it’s mighty convenient that a spear relieves Brainy of his force field belt when he needs it a few panels later.

For that matter, how many Legionnaires forgot to take their flight rings on this little adventure? Vi uses her ring, but Imra left hers behind while Cham and Gim make no mention of theirs, and Brainy’s was damaged (another convenient turn). You’d think flight rings would have been mandatory standard issue by now.

On the other hand, the plot works quite well if one doesn’t think too much about the convenience and repetition. In fact, “The Rogue Legionnaire” reminds me of the Star Trek episode, “All Our Yesterdays,” in which Kirk, Spock, and McCoy find themselves trapped in eras of a planet’s past. Perhaps “The Rogue Legionnaire” would have have worked better with fewer Legionnaires; the repetition and convenience would have been less obvious with fewer episodes.

As for Rond Vidar’s debut—I really like the way Swan depicts him in this story: a bit rotund, weak chin, pointy nose. He looks like a regular kid. It’s a pity this depiction wasn’t maintained in later appearances. The Legion could use more “regular guys” like Chuck.

And Rond is elevated from walk-on character to someone we care about at the end: a young man who betrayed his own father to save the Legion. That last forlorn image of him is quite powerful.

Speaking of the art, is Vi wearing a cape on Page 3, Panel 1? In the black and white Showcase reprint, it looks almost like Swan thought he was drawing Duo Damsel.

“The Rogue Legionnaire” has a lot of good ideas and some good storytelling (the Legionnaires unmasking themselves at the end is an effective reveal, whatever Cham’s motivation for wearing a disguise). But Shooter needed a firm, encouraging hand to guide him and reign him in. Mort’s abusive personality, as Shooter later described him, apparently didn’t do the trick.

Grade: 89.6 (A-)



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #5
He Who Wanders #784706 08/24/13 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
However, “The Rogue Legionnaire” suffers from the same problems that have dogged Shooter’s other stories so far. He simply lacks the maturity as a writer and as a human being to pull off the grandiose ideas he so easily generates.


Perhaps so, but it's hard to cite too many examples of Hamilton's writing that are executed with much more of an overtly 'mature' touch. I'd say the tone and content are mostly a match, with the addition of more interesting villains and somewhat more personality given to the Legionnaires.

Quote
Second, as others have pointed out, the episodes in the past follow a particular pattern that gets old very quickly.


This was a trope that was hardly unique to Shooter. In how many JLA stories did the team divide up into seperate missions, only to all end up captured or all end up in the same place, etc. Hardly a Shooter-unique problem.

Quote
As for Rond Vidar’s debut—I really like the way Swan depicts him in this story: a bit rotund, weak chin, pointy nose. He looks like a regular kid. It’s a pity this depiction wasn’t maintained in later appearances. The Legion could use more “regular guys” like Chuck.


Agreed! I did a rant on this a few Archives earlier when I pointed out and approved of Jan Arrah's early depiction as being slightly cherub-like with some baby fat in appearance compared to the other Legionnaires. This is a perfectly normal body type for teenagers who are later "bloomers" than others.

However, another poster on the Archives 6 thread gave Swan props for bringing subtly different body types to the Legionnaires. It's subtle, but at least everyone's not identical. Forte always did a good job with distinctive hair. Swan takes it somewhat further with posture, musculature and how clothes hang on people.

On a somewhat related note, as I mentioned earlier, the scene with Vi being small while the Egyptians stand confused in bare feet is notable. It's rare for feet to be depicted with such detail in the Silver Age, in my memory at least. He was a talented artist.

Quote
And Rond is elevated from walk-on character to someone we care about at the end: a young man who betrayed his own father to save the Legion. That last forlorn image of him is quite powerful.


To me, this is the image that makes the issue. It's quiet but powerful. And very human. Shooter, at such a young age, had some skill beyond his years.



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