Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Question for Dan DiDio?

To hell with that. I'll buy Adventure if it pleases me to do so and for no other reason. I'm not going to have DiDio playing hardball with me. It wasn't me who got the Legion into this mess. What if Adventure is a terrible comic--should I still buy it then? If I do buy it, does that mean I like it that the Legion only has a backup? Does it mean that I'm a big fan of Superboy II? Does it mean that I'm supporting the Legion getting their own title? Who's to say? DC's going to do whatever they want to do. The ball's in their court, not ours, and I'm not accepting custody of it no matter how much I like the Legion. The guy's got a lot of nerve.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
<strong> Yes, but can you still have kids?

On the one hand, telling fans they better buy it or else after generations of DC editorial ruined the property, that's pretty infuriating.

On the other hand, The Action/Legion arc sold pretty well, and FC:LOTW has sold well (and would have sold better if it were published more often than semiannually). So, it seems like a reasonable hurdle for a Johns-based Legion to meet.

I guess I would feel better about all this if DiDio were still in a mode of actually selling his product to convention audiences, rather than threatening them. And this applies to many more properties than the Legion. DiDio does deserve credit for nurturing an interesting range of characters and finding ways to keep them in print (think Manhunter, Blue Beetle, Jonah Hex). There is also no doubt that Flash has been a trainwreck since Infinite Crisis and that Wonder Woman has shot itself in the foot a lot since then, too. I think maybe part of DiDio's issue with the Legion is that he doesn't find it particularly interesting personally. And given his usual attitude, he probably thinks the fanbase is a pain in the @$$. I think about his comment that when he actually looked at the 3 versions, they were so similar he didn't see why you should have all 3 around. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but it seems surprising for an EIC to admit this after approving a 3rd boot and almost simultaneously approving the revival of the 1st boot. But anyway, I am going to remain positive. I'm going to read Adventure Comics, and I'm going to send Mr. DiDio any and all positive feedback I can possibly find, along with any negative criticism warranted.

Well to be honest I liked Final Crisis. I've been reading Morrison enough to get an understanding of the stories he types. Thankfully, like the mermaids in Futurama, what would've taken millions of years got sped up by extreme doses of caffeine. That stuff is WONDERFUL.

The Threeboot Legion had more original material and designs when the Legion was rebooted, I guess. And I have no idea what Ditto Wonder Woman is.

I think he just meant "The debacle that has been the Flash for the last three years" and that in HIS OPINION the same goes for Wonder Woman-it's a debacle.

Oh, well, the only Wonder Woman books I have are the two Elseworlds and the second volume of 60s Diana.

I respect your right to buy whatever you decide. You earn your money and you choose what to invest it in. But all I will add is that if Legion fandom had taken that approach whan the Action back-ups started or when the Legion became an occasional back-up in Superboy, we wouldn't be having this debate because the Legion would have died them.

If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well.

I was part of that Legion Fandom back when the Legion a back-up, and yes, I wrote letters and bought 5 issues of each issue....however...I only paid .25 per issue and not $4.00 when there is a recession going on!!

Oh, the hell with that. I'm not going to be extorted into paying $4 a month for bad 8-page Legion stories, just on the basis of D.. D....'s vague promises that there might be another Legion title someday. That's extortion and he knows it.

Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.

As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).

Suppose there's only one restaurant in town that serves hamburgers. Suppose you go to that restaurant every day at lunchtime and order a hamburger. One day, however, the manager tells you that you can't have a whole hamburger; you can only have a quarter of a hamburger and three quarters of a baloney sandwich. The price for this is slightly higher than the price for a whole hamburger. And suppose the manager then says, "Someday we might allow you to buy a whole hamburger again, but only if you and all your friends come in here every day and order three quarters of a baloney sandwich and one quarter of a hamburger. Oh, and it's your fault that we took whole hamburgers off the menu."

Why would you go back to that restaurant, even if it was the only restaurant in town that had hamburgers? Wouldn't you just find something else to eat?

Exactly!

Although: it's only our worst-case-scenario that the other three-quarters are a baloney sandwich. For all we know, it could turn out to be filet mignon. And the one-quarter hamburger could turn out to be a like a deluxe Angus beef burger or whatever. Let's not let our pessimism run too far ahead of our information.

A couple of things about that: my understanding is that the Legion wasn't switched to Action for any good reason, but out of editorial whim. Yes? Then there was no more reason for the fans to indulge DC in its silly decisions back then than there is now.

We don't know what would have happened back then if Legion fandom hadn't done what they did. I think it's more likely than not that the Legion would have come back in some form anyway.

But circumstances are different now anyway. Now, the Legion has a fifty-year history as one of DC's (overall) more successful titles. It's just silly to be treating them as if they were Jaime Reyes, especially considering a) the response to the Johns retroboot, b) the sales level of the threeboot, early on, and c) DC Editorial's role in the change to the sales level of the threeboot, later on.

DiDio's just being silly. He already has all the good reasons he needs to publish a Legion comic. If that's not good enough for him, I don't know what more a bad reason (by which I mean panicky Legion fans buying multiple copies of a comic book they don't want) would do.

Whilst I would agree it was his decision to cancel the Threeboot I do not think that is the same thing as being his fault. It was always my understanding the the Threeboot was cancelled for sales reasons, not that the Threeboot was not selling just that the quasi-original Legion being offered up in Action and Lo3W seems to be selling substantially better.

If this is the case then cancelling the Threeboot was the correct thing to do from a business standpoint as potentially DC/Warner stand to make more money from the Johnsboot than the Threeboot; and this, as much as we may not like it, is really what Dan Didio is employed to do.

I would also rather there was a new ongoing series instead of a series of back-ups but it probably makes far more sense to test the water like this than run straight into a new series featuring all new characters. (actually this is not true I would rather have issue 63 of TMK or 39 of The Legion or 51 of Threeboot but none of these seem that likely

Fine do not buy Adventure Comics (or anything else) if the stories are no good or do not appeal to you but not buying the book just because you do not happen to like someone who, in theory, is only peripherally involved seems to be a little short sighted, but obviously it is your choice to make.

Okay. Fine. That's not a plan that I particularly care for, but it's perfectly understandable. So where's our comic book about the Johnsboot? If a Johnsboot comic would be so much more successful than a threeboot comic, then where is it? Can't make money on a comic you're not publishing!

Speaking as an adoptive parent, I am saddened and take great offence to this offside comment.

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend you, Owl Lad. Honestly.

(snip)

Silver Age Lad:

Quote

...If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well...

Dear Mr. Didio,

Please return to charging whatever you charged for a single issue back in the early days of *Adventure Comics* and then we'll talk.

Sincerely,

cleome

A few more random thoughts about DiDio and whither the Legion and all that jazz:

I have the feeling SOMEONE at DC (maybe not DD, but someone), has a pretty clear idea where they want the Legion to go and how to get there. And I have the feeling that the hitch is that "looooonnnnngggg lead time" problem that really seems to be hampering virtually all of DC's new product (and not-new product, for that matter). From this perspective, I think the backup feature (I refuse to call an 8-page story a co-feature. A co-feature would be 1/2 the total page count!) may be a way of keeping the product out there while schedules align. I have no proof of this, just the sense that 1) Johns wants to be involved in the Legion, 2) Johns has a REALLY busy schedule already and 3) it's increasingly hard to find artists who can deliver books on time, let alone books with a literal legion of characters.

Second, and this is something I have to push everyday for people at work to remember, we are in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the 1930s. One of the things that makes it so bad is that (American) consumers have finally stopped spending beyond their means. At the same time, a lot of commodity/input prices are still relatively high (much lower than last summer, but still much higher than a few years ago). This has to be hitting comics, and raising the threshold for a sustainable sales level. It may be why we are seeing more limited series -- They have to represent fewer long-term commitment costs in down market. In light of this, it may very well be a vote of confidence to have the Legion in a backup.

Nothing I write here should indicate that I disagree with the general disgust and anger at the gross mismanagement of the concept for the past generation.

I find this comparison on prices puzzling. costs of all commodities have risen with inflation and comic book pricing is no worse than most.

Would you not buy a house or a loaf of bread because it isn't the same price as the 1960s? Of course not. Try living in the UK where DC prices are 50 to 100 percent more expensive than the US.

I understand the frustration with DiDio's apparent attitude but the phrase cutting your nose of to spite your face springs to mind. "I don't like DiDio's treatment of the Legion so I'll boycott Legion books and prove him right".

Great tactics.

(snip)

Silver Age Lad:

Quote

...Would you not buy a house or a loaf of bread because it isn't the same price as the 1960s?..

It's just my way of kidding on the square. Anyway, I don't know much about purchasing power in other parts of the world, but around here: There is a definite difference in how much purchasing power most people my age have compared to most people who were our age back in the 1960s and 1970s.

So, technically, I could afford to spend five dollars on a comic book in the literal sense. I could walk out of the house and do it right now. However, life isn't like it was two-plus decades ago. I have other financial responsibilities and commitments, and the relative value of disposable income would be different than it once was even without some pretty formidable outside factors.

Y'know, it's not as if I'm specifically taking my mad out on DC. I can't afford anyone's comics right now. I can't afford books or CDs, either, and it doesn't matter whose they are. If it's not coming from the library or perhaps somebody's yard sale, or if it's not available online, I won't be reading it. That's just the way it is.

It does, however, seem to me that if large companies want people to maintain their hobbies in a bad economic climate, one of the first things they'd want to consider is how to make that hobby cheaper to maintain.

Is it not also true that the price of comics has outrun the inflation rate? By a lot? I seem to recall that it is.

apology accepted. i already know i'm oversensitive about these matters.

I wouldn't be surprised. Don't worry, though. The execs have probably found a way to blame us for that, too.

:rolleyes:

remember what marvel management said, their $3.99 price hike was to see how much they can charge before losing readers for maximum profit

I think that's how the price of everything is set.