Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion Cancelled with # 23

Reading this article... Is it just me or do the rest of you have a feeling that things are about to get far worse than just cancellation and rebranding?

http://www.newsarama.com/17943-levitz-hints-at-mystery-of-the-legion-s-place-in-the-dcu.html

The Legion Lost storyline just might get resolved with this... or not. Either way it at least sounds like a conclusion to the series that might allow me to feel that I have finished my collection of the original/retroboot Legion once this is all over.

The problem that I'm seeing (and, admittedly, I may be reading things into what was said that may or may not be there) is the statement that we've all thought that the Legion was in the same universe as the DCnU and that, with this final issue, what we thought we knew about the Legion may not be accurate.

So, inferring, that might imply that the current Legion is now an "alternate future", like the Reboot Legion and the Threeboot Legion. And, if that's the case, then whatever "Justice Legion" nonsense that DC has planned might involve yet another Legion (Fourboot Legion?)

If this is the case then I'm out and DC has (finally) lost a reader who has been following the Legion in all of it's incarnations since the late 1960's.

So, let me get this straight...

(1) The Original Legion is the logical extrapolation of the Superman Universe's future...
(2) "Crisis on Infinite Earths" fused together all alternate universes into one, but the Legion stayed much the same...
(3) But when Byrniac rebooted Superman's origin, Superboy got shifted into a "pocket" universe, although the Legion stayed much the same...
...although somewhere between (2) and (3) Supergirl vanished from continuity...
(4) Then Mon-El temporarily killed the Time Trapper, and the 5YL universe was created, which was a para-logical extension of the "original" Legion's future... but also creating Kid Quantum and Laurel Gand...
(5) Then there was another "crisis", alternate universes started proliferating again through "hypertime", and the Legion was changed in major ways: some of them being XS, Gates, Kinetix, Sneckie, Monstress, Shikari, and Gear... and Batch SW6...

Note: The Rokk Krinn Time Trapper claimed to have "hidden" the 5YL and Batch SW6 Legions somewhere safe...

(6) Then Superboy-Prime punched reality, and created the "threeboot" Legion universe, which turned out to be his own "home" universe, effectively creating himself ex nihilo...
(7) Then somehow the Retroboot came into existence, but its nature and history seemed to evolve with every issue, becoming less and less like the "original" Legion as time went on...
(8) And now... may I suggest "JBoot"? We learn the "truth" about the Legion's place in the (current) DC Universe.

I think not. I think it is a line to sell issues #23 and... whatever comes next. When we really ought to be around Adventure Comics #920...

See? Continuity is easy.

Batch SW6 is definitely in bucket #4, not #5.

I hope that you're right, Klar Ken. I really do.

But.... I still have this bad feeling that a "4-boot" is coming.

Further evidence... Johns went to a lot of trouble to sort out the three Legions as he realized that, with three of them, continuity was a mess.

Now, if the editorial/Management of DC does toss all of that in favor of a Fourboot then we'd be back at square one (or in this case, square-four)...

Now, I ask you, does that really sound like the kind of crazy decision that DC is currently famous for?

Me too...me toooooo...

Especially when Levitz is implying that the Retroboot isn't really the New 52 future Legion.

WTF, DC, WTF.

Why doesn't DC just go ahead and replace all this team stuff with a Batman-Brainiac 5 clone that has his own solo book?

C'mon, DC. You know you want to.

:rolleyes:

*puts hand over your mouth*

SHUSH. YOU NEVER KNOW WHO IS LISTENING.

Oh, relax. Since when did DC ever exhibit the slightest curiosity about anything we had say?

Besides, nobody who saw "Superman X" in the Legion cartoon can claim to be surprised by this "bold, new" development. "Superman X" was essentially the attempt to do yet another "Dark Knight of Teh Future" shtick without having to actually use the word "Bat."

(Have I mentioned lately that I'm far beyond not even remotely interested in anything to do with Dark Knight-mania? Well, tough toenails. This is where you all have to read about it again. )

Preach on. PREACH ON. I cannot even tell you how sick I am of all things Batman. It's like no one can write any comic character that isn't somewhat reminiscent of him. No characters are allowed their own personalities anymore because they all have to be Batman.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw how Timber Wolf was being written in Legion Lost. I was never thrilled with his clueless yahoo personality during Levitz' original run, but at least back then he had a distinct personality, not one that was like a 3rd-generation copy of somebody else.

Paul Levitz has dropped some hints about the ending of issue 23: http://www.newsarama.com/17943-levitz-hints-at-mystery-of-the-legion-s-place-in-the-dcu.html

My guess: This has all been a vision of Doiglas Nolan, from LSH 300.

Or the last panel will have Paul Levitz winking to the readers and saying, "Aren't you glad this all isn't real?"

... followed by, "Ain't I a stinker?"

If the retroboot Legion ends up being some kind of dream sequence, I'd actually be ok with that if it ended the series and completed my collection. That way I wouldn't have to buy any more new comic books. Yet, I can't imagine it will end that way with the Legion Lost team having teamed up with Superboy and the Teen Titans in the NuDCU.

To quote Daffy Duck, "au contraire mon frere". Or was it Bugs?

Anyway, we've already seen (in prior continuities) Superman meet and interact with the original/J-boot Legion, the prior incarnation of Conner/Superboy interact with the reboot Legion and (prior incarnation) Supergirl interact with the 3-boot Legion. Different Superfolk...different alternate futures.

Actually, this is not too far from certain modern cosmology theories that time travel would be possible but not within your own timeline/reality. You could leave your universe, travel to another and venture any direction in time, past or future, as much as you like but, within your own reality/timeline, you can only move in time as the minutes pass around you.

So, yes, I can easily see the j-boot Legion not being from the same timeline as the DCnU. Problem is, with that theory, no one from the DCnU would ever be able to interact with any future beings/Legions from the future of the DCnU.

I wonder if the writers are aware of this?

The one thing I won't do is follow the Legion again if it gets rebooted once more to not feature the characters of the original/retroboot era. I'm tired of reboots. Now if the DC editors chose to switch focus to one of the two other Legions from Lo3W, and made sure we all knew this was a legit thing, then maybe... The trouble is, as we learned with the retroboot Legion, with DC you can't seem to go home again without the magic being lost!

I'd lay odds that whatever DC plans next for the Legion, it'll probably ignore the last two volumes. Whether that's with another reboot or just pretending those recent volumes didn't happen, I don't know. History favors the former, unfortunately.

I wonder, though, if maybe DC will try to match the Legion as it appeared in Morrison's recently-concluded Action Comics run. I speak about that version much, as I dropped Action after 5 or 6 issues. But from what I've seen, that version didn't necessarily match up with what Levitz is/was doing. IIRC, it was kind of an adult Legion take that also featured the three main LSVers prominently. Maybe someone here can speak to it more knowledgeably? In any case, food for thought.

Also, apparently Giffen, DeMatteis and Maguire have something they're doing for DC that hasn't been announced, according to Bleeding Cool. (BC is incredibly reliable for insider scoops.) This could be a Legion relaunch or possibly a new Booster Gold series (or something else entirely). Again, food for thought.

But if this Legion wasn't in the New 52, why did it have to do the "relaunch" with the whole line just a few issue after its own reboot? (Stupidest most useless editorial decision of the project.)

I'd rather a fourboot than a continuing devastation of characters and continuity that I grew up with.

As far as I'm concerned the Legion I grew up stopped being published when Crisis On Infinite Earths came out. Everything since then has been about various alternate Legions. Some of them were actually pretty good reading, but they were not the same group that appeared from 1958-85. THAT group had a guy called Superboy as a defining member, with his cousin Supergirl (from his personal future) making an occasional appearance as well. Just look at virtually every cover from the early 60s through around 1980. See the guy in the blue suit with a big red "S"? (Hint: his name is on the cover). If whatever group you are reading about did not include him as a major member, it must be a different group. Simple as that.

I not really know what the executives of DC claim with all that. If with this of 52 it seems that all the groups of superheroes remained without ideas; they are a clone of Justice League or have a personage of Batman's family, when not two you sew simultaneously.
Or the readers only want to read again and again the same history....

Justice League (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Cyborg..and now with Element Woman, Atom & Firestorm)

Justice League Of America (Martian Manhunter, Grenn Lantern (The new guy) Katana, Hawkman, Catwoman ?, Stargirl (What she does...a teenager with these so hard types?, it should be in the Teen Titans) Green Arrow.

Justice League Dark (Zatanna, Deadman, Constantine, Frankenstein?)

Justice League International (Batman (again like Wolverine of Marvel) Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Green Lantern (Guy Gadner), Vixen. Rocket Red, August General in Iron (Horrible character!)Godiva (a clone of Spider-Girl).
They were a good group until the girls extracted, to add the losers : Batwing & Omac.

Earth 2....the same again Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman (Died this time in the first issue, but with a new Batman in the way)
Flash, Grenn Lantern (Alan Scott) Hawkgirl, Dr Fate.

Teen Titans.... Superboy, Red Robin, Wonder Girl And a few second class characters who do of this one the worst incarnation of the whole history of the Titans.

Red Hood And The Outlaws... Another Robin with Arsenal and Starfire (2 ex- Titans)

The Ravagers...A good idea that did not work.. With more ex Titans : Beast Boy and Terra, and Fairchild of Gen 13.

Then I do not know that they claim now, to eliminate to The Legion that was the only group with personality and originality ... to turn it into another future clone of Justice League with Batmans or Robins, and Wonder Women of the future?

The only hope is that everything is a bad rumor ... and begin of zero with the proposed in the miniseries Secrets of Legion.

For that if they destroy 50 years of history of The Legion. DC comics will be died for my and forever.

Levitz tried his best to bring back your beloved original with his retroboot Legion, picking up the pieces left him from Johns' Action and Lo3W retro booting, but it was a hard sell. With a 20 year writing gap and Johns' alterations, the Legion did not have the same feel that it once had. But you have to give Levitz credit that he did try to reconnect his current Legion with the original. As such, I look upon his two current runs of Legion, along with DeFalco's Legion Lost as being part of original continuity despite whatever major revelation has planned for his final issue.

It would have been interesting to see what Levitz would have done with the Legion if he would have stayed with the title 20 years ago (minus Giffen's hideous costume revamp that Geoff Johns thankfully corrected!). I think the Legion would have grown and changed much in the same way Levitz tried to do over the past couple of years. Change that occurs organically (even without Superboy or Supergirl) can still be considered part of the original Legion mythos.

from Masterworks:


Batty Bilson wrote:
"I actually like the stories in volume 9, prof--I thought it was a fitting way to finish off the Silver Age run, with more personal stories. Sort of like fading out with smaller stories as they had originally faded in."


Maybe, but I think that's being too kind. it was more like a slow death, precipitated, in my view by something I was unaware of at the time the ARCHIVES books were coming out. That being, Carmine Infantino FIRING George Klein, as part of a general program of "weeding out the old guys". What a stupid, and heartless thing to do. On top of that, while I LIKE Jack Abel's inking, Swan-Abel was a MAJOR step down from Swan-Klein. Not long after, Curt Swan got off the series. Not long after that, it was yanked out of the front of ADVENTURE and shoved into the back of ACTION, and before long, Jim Shooter "retired" (HAH). And then Mort Weisinger retired. Which was the END, until it came back 6 months later in SUPERBOY under new editor Murray Boltinoff, who never seemed to have a clue how to handle it right. His first 4 episodes had George Tuska on the art. If it wasn't for Dave Cockrum taking over on the 5th new episode, I wonder if the series would ever have survived. Cockrum's art, to me, is the ONLY thing that makes those episodes worth plowing through. It sure wasn't the writing...