Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Pre Crisis Continuity.

While reading the Legion Wiki, I read something I did not know and wanted to confirm I understand it correctly.

It was suggested that Supergirl was a member of the Legion BEFORE Superboy. Is this true?

And if it is.....A theory came to mind.

Maybe the current Waid reboot right now is simply setting up for the OFFICIAL first meeting of present young Kal-El handled by JIM SHOOTER?

That might be cool.

hmm

I don't think I've ever heard that before. It's definitely an interesting idea. Now for another one: what if the being B5 caught in that sphere at the end of The Lightning Saga is Superboy? Soon to be resurrected in a multi issue arc in some comic or the other.

Maybe the 50th is going to involve Pocket Universe Superboy, you know, The Greatest Hero of them All. A big crossover huge Crisis event culminating in a battle royal between Superboy and Superboy Prime...for the fate of the Universe!...and it would fit with the wiki entry too.

Heck, that's a story that practically writes itself.

Yes, it's been pretty well established that in pre-Crisis continuity, Supergirl joined before Superboy did. I'm not 100% certain when this was made "official", but it certainly was before the Secrets of the LSH mini-series, in which the order of joining is told as a coherent narrative for possibly the first time.

In Best of Legion Outpost collections from Legion fandom of the early-mid 70s, there is still disagreement about whether Kal or Kara came first; many fans still seemed to think it was Kal. And these were very detail-oriented fans discussing and debating nuances, not then-newcomers who had picked up thier first issues.

To me, I always assumed the Kara-first approach was strongly ingrained early on, but that collection contradicts the notion; it was 70s, it seems, perhaps not long before the Secrets mini (which coiuld have been the first official in-continuity documentation?).

YK, given the legal feuds, I cannot see Superboy or the POcket Universe reentering continuity any time soon.

Its been pretty much cannon that Supergirl joined before Superboy since probably before I was even born. Numerous places point that out, but Supergirl joined after Lyle (she joined with Brainy), and then Clark was next after them (followed by Jo, then Thom).

So, yes, pre-Crisis, Supergirl did join first, and joined before Vi, Dirk, Chuck, Tenzil, Jo, Ayle, Jan, Lar, Brin, Nura, Val, Jeckie, etc.

But so did young Kal (well, before most of them).

It's an interesting theory, but between the Johns Legion's Val and Lu having not met Kara before (recent Supergirl issues) and the young Legion we've seen young Kal interect with in Action, and with Thom's references to a crisis of three Legions, I'd be very surprised to see a young Kal involved with both Threeboot and Johns Legions.

It was established that Supergirl had to join before Superboy due to the fact that Brainiac 5 was shown (in flashbacks back then - I'll have to look up the actual issue number and nowadays in recolored reprints) to be a member at Superboy's induction.

And as all fans know, Supergirl and Brainiac 5 joined at the same time.

Very true.

In Adv 247, there were lots of unnamed Legionnaires in the background. One of those, in later reprints, was colored to be Querl, thus proving Kara joined first.

A side note: Levitz further mucks with the joining order (although not pertaining to Kal or Kara) in #295, showing that Lyle, Cham iand Gim were members prior to time travel, thus contradicting the Secrets of the LSH mimi.

D'oh!
I knew that.

..and hasn't it been well established by now that Pocket Universe Superboy is a separate entity from the Seigel/Shuster Superman? His life and times have been retroactively "tweaked" so that he can be seen as an alternate version of the boy who would grow up to be the Man of Steel.

The first recolored version of the Superboy's induction (i.e. ADVENTURE COMICS #247) is in SUPERMAN ANNUAL #6 (1962). I have the issue and will have to check it when I get home to see if the guy is green.

There's also at least one flashback in the Adventure era that definitely shows Brainy was watching Clark give his oath.

(responding to YK)
In continuity, perhaps. But as a legal property, it's difficult to see a court agreeing.

Imagine if Coca-Cola's rights to use the name, packaging and formula of Coke were facing a serious challenge from the actual, documentable originator of Coke. Could Coke's claims that Diet Coke, Cherry Coke, Coke Zero and all products clearly derivative of Coke would/could be exempt from legalities? All these Coke products use thematically similar names and packaging, and have at least an intended "continuity" in taste with The Real Thing.

In copyright law, as I recall from a seminar some years ago, an important element is called "Confusion in the marketplace," so that if Yellow Kid was the name of your trucking company, and I began a Yellow Kid restaurant, there would likely be n oconfusion, as the two are seperate and clearly different. But if we both wanted to open a Yellow KId truckstop within the same geographical area, that could cause confusion, and the courts would weigh whose claim was better. If my Yellow Kid truckstop was in Atlanta and yours was in Tulsa, there's no problem (until one or both of us start franchising - then we're back to confusion in the marketplace again). Two theoretically seperate properties both called Superboy that look alike (or even very similar) seems like a matter of such confusion, especially if the Seigel case prevails (and if it dies, they might also take the fight to Superman himself, under this and other provisions of law).

I see the point.
I remember Gary Leach and Alan Moore's Marvelman, fabulous stuff. We couldn't get the reprints in the US because of a little name dispute.

Captain Marvel is published by two different companies (or at least it was) but the differences in the characters are huge, no confusion there.

..and those of us who like Superboy in the Legion want Superboy not Clark Kent, not a clone in a t-shirt, not a clone from a thousand years in the future, not a retrofitted Daxamite, not a hoax, not an imaginary story. Nope, we want the big blue boy scout himself so even if I could "make a case" for a different guy in the blue suit I'd really just be trying to loophole my way around the rules to keep from violating the terms of the court case...and clearly having the intent to defraud the copyright owner is probably frowned upon as well.

-sigh-

ADVENTURE COMICS #323 (August 1964) was the issue that showed Brainiac 5 (along with Triplicate Girl, Chameleon Boy, Invisible Kid, and Colossal Boy) as a member when Superboy was inducted.

Phantom Girl and Shrinking Violet are said to be members before Superboy as well, because there are two other females shown to be members as well as Lu and Imra (and Superboy didn't react as if he saw Supergirl there).

And that's why the membership is listed in the order that it has been listed. The earliest order listing I can think of is in THE AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS #9 (November 1975) .

Checked it out. The guy colored as Brainy is colored as Colossal Boy. Of course, Saturn Girl, Lightning <strike>Boy</strike>Lad (they changed the name for the reprint), and Cosmic Boy are colored as if they are wearing their traditional Adventure era costumes.

I'll scan stuff in when I have a chance.

Just a couple more details on the Supergirl-joined-first issue:

The rationale given for it was that time travel was new and her era was closer to the Legion's than Superboy's. However, we're talking about only 15 years or so, making this a rather thin rationale. Also, it means that the Legion must have known they would eventually induct Superboy, as they approached Kara as the "children" of the original Legionnaires who inducted her cousin.

Some fans, however, have pointed out that Superboy was initially inducted as an honorary member. This may mean that the flashback in Adv. 323 refers to his later induction as a full member, which would satisfy the idea of him joining first AND Brainy being present.

Good point, HWW.

But while Gary notes that his Adv 247 reprint in Supe annual #6 is colored as Colossal Boy, other reprints (including at least one that I own) show one of the anonymous members colored as Querl.

The only in-continuity confirmation I can think of was the Secrets mini, which as I pointed out is slightly contradicted by #295, in terms of order of membership for Lyle, Cham and Gim pre-time travel (unless they were also honorary members, not confirmed until after the events of Kara's first membership attempt).

But even if it is Gim, not Querl, as part of the #247 background membership, that still suggests Kara came first.

Also, if memory serves, if one does a headcount of all the anonymous Legionnaires in 247, regardless of how they were later colored, then most of the Legionnaires Kara met on both membership trials had to be present in Kal's honorary induction... or else there were lots of former members who left and were purged from all archives and recollections in rather Soviet-style way.

Or else these proceedings were open to the public.

perhaps. But as I recall, it is strongly implied that these were all fellow members.

Oh cool! So I don't have to scan now!

Or were retconned out by Anti-Lad's interference with the timestream...

Actually, it occurred to mec walking home last night: What if the fellow mentioned here, who was never recolorewd to match a later Legionaire, was actually Anti-Lad?

This just caused me to realize why they made Superboy-Prime start to refer to himself as Superman-Prime

Marvel Comics got to use "Captain Marvel" because Dc had stopped publishing the Original Captain Marvel for quite a while. Marvel then got a copyright on the Title "Captain Marvel". That is why all the DC Captain Marvel comics are titled Shazam (or such)

Trademark, I think, not copyright. DC can use their Captain Marvel all they want... but they can't use the Captain Marvel trademark in titles and stuff. They have to use the Shazam! trademark.